Colts released Shaq Leonard

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

No one picked him up from waivers but a team will sign him.

Completely agree.   But I would guess it will be for the remainder of the year,  not anything after.   I hope he balls out wherever he ends up.   I want nothing but the best for that guy

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

you must have watched a different Shaq Leonard than me this season. He’s slow. 

You must be speaking about a different person.  He wasn't owed 20 million this year.  

[ColtStrong2013]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

His comments to the media weren't a factor if the are building a team based on talent. 

of course it does. Not one team in the league wants their captains discussing coaching decisions and airing frustration to the media over their play. It’s one thing for JT and contract leverage, it’s a whole different animal when it’s mid season commentary about snap count frustration. 
 

his snap count was direct reflection of his play. He’s frustrated that EJ Speed is out there on 3rd down instead of him? I can’t imagine I’m alone in thinking that only made sense… 

[jvan1973]

Just now, ColtStrong2013 said:

of course it does. Not one team in the league wants their captains discussing coaching decisions and airing frustration to the media over their play. It’s one thing for JT and contract leverage, it’s a whole different animal when it’s mid season commentary about snap count frustration. 
 

his snap count was direct reflection of his play. He’s frustrated that EJ Speed is out there on 3rd down instead of him? I can’t imagine I’m alone in thinking that only made sense… 

If your not alone,  you should be.   Leonard hasn't played as bad as some claim.   Certainty not up to 2021 standards.   

[ColtStrong2013]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You must be speaking about a different person.  He wasn't owed 20 million this year.  

His dead cap for 2023 was literally $19,970,000. 
 

so you want to look at cash? He was a $16 million liability. Anyway you want to cut it with the accounting tricks of the salary cap. 

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

His dead cap for 2023 was literally $19,970,000. 
 

so you want to look at cash? He was a $16 million liability. Anyway you want to cut it with the accounting tricks of the salary cap. 

He is getting all that money even with being cut.   He was cut for the possibility of him getting hurt and owing him money next year

[BlackTiger]

2 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

His dead cap for 2023 was literally $19,970,000.

Not the same thing as what the team paid him this year.  

[ColtStrong2013]

2 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

Not the same thing as what the team paid him this year.  

I don’t give two hoots what he was paid in cash. I care about what his cap hit was…

Just now, ColtStrong2013 said:

I don’t give two hoots what he was paid in cash. I care about what his cap hit was…

The 28-year-old counts $19.79 million toward the cap, a team-leading 8.52%

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2023/07/10/indianapolis-colts-salary-cap-2023-shaquille-leonard-jonathan-taylor-anthony-richardson/70366529007/

[jvan1973]

Just now, ColtStrong2013 said:

I don’t give two hoots what he was paid in cash. I care about what his cap hit was…

It's the same,  cut or not

[ColtStrong2013]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

It's the same,  cut or not

and it was $19.79 million. Hence my comment on $20 million liability. 

[ColtStrong2013]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He is getting all that money even with being cut.   He was cut for the possibility of him getting hurt and owing him money next year

I understand that… I’m not saying that he wouldn’t. I’m saying that he was a liability on defense (missing tackles, not making plays that he was being paid for) 

 

and that he doubted $20 million to the cap

Just now, ColtStrong2013 said:

I understand that… I’m not saying that he wouldn’t. I’m saying that he was a liability on defense (missing tackles, not making plays that he was being paid for) 

 

and that he doubted $20 million to the cap

counted

[ColtStrong2013]

16 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

If your not alone,  you should be.   Leonard hasn't played as bad as some claim.   Certainty not up to 2021 standards.   

which is what he was paid for. 
 

he was a liability on the field against the Patriots. Unbelievably bad. 
 

and I shouldn’t be alone in the thought. It’s not me dogging on him. He was by far my favorite colts defender. I’m a big fan. But his play was hard to watch, especially in open space. He was much slower than he was two years ago, which was his biggest strength, and happens to be the key to Franklin and Speed’s play. 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 minute ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

which is what he was paid for. 
 

he was a liability on the field against the Patriots. Unbelievably bad. 
 

and I shouldn’t be alone in the thought. It’s not me dogging on him. He was by far my favorite colts defender. I’m a big fan. But his play was hard to watch, especially in open space. He was much slower than he was two years ago, which was his biggest strength, and happens to be the key to Franklin and Speed’s play. 

https://horseshoeheroes.com/posts/colts-fans-worried-shaq-shaquille-leonard-performance-against-patriots-01hf2hjpt3h5

[jvan1973]

12 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

and it was $19.79 million. Hence my comment on $20 million liability. 

He still gets paid that amount.  That's what I'm saying.   Being cut now saves nothing

[ColtStrong2013]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

He still gets paid that amount.  That's what I'm saying.   Being cut now saves nothing

I never said it did. 
 

I said he was a $20 million liability out there. He counted that towards our cap space this season and was a liability on defense. That’s all I said. And it’s been made a multi post ordeal now because you said I must be talking about someone else. 

[ColtStrong2013]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He still gets paid that amount.  That's what I'm saying.   Being cut now saves nothing

I would argue that it does save something. It saves him from having to play for the colts for the remainder of the season and being cut then. 
 

he now has the ability to potentially play for a team that he can look to finish his career with. 

[ColtStrong2013]

7 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I would argue that it does save something. It saves him from having to play for the colts for the remainder of the season and being cut then. 
 

he now has the ability to potentially play for a team that he can look to finish his career with. 

and with that I bow out of this thread. 
 

happy Thanksgiving. 
 

thankful for Shaq Leonard and all that he brought to this organization. Hope the best for him going forward… unless it means beating the colts of course. He’s a good man. Legend in my book. 

[BlackTiger]

33 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I don’t give two hoots what he was paid in cash. I care about what his cap hit was…

There can be a difference between regular cap hit and dead cap hit depending on when a player is cut and what kind of bonuses they have

 

Thats why dead cap hit is called that, and not just cap hit

[NewColtsFan]

50 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He still gets paid that amount.  That's what I'm saying.   Being cut now saves nothing

I think I’ve read the Colts save $6.1 mill this year.   That’s my understanding.  Maybe I’ve misunderstood that.   I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong. 

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think I’ve read the Colts save $6.1 mill this year.   That’s my understanding.  Maybe I’ve misunderstood that.   I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong. 

If he was claimed on waivers they would have been.   He wasn't.  The Colts pay the 6.1

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think I’ve read the Colts save $6.1 mill this year.   That’s my understanding.  Maybe I’ve misunderstood that.   I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong. 

https://1075thefan.com/161366/colts-cut-shaquille-leonard/

[w87r]

34 minutes ago, csmopar said:

https://1075thefan.com/161366/colts-cut-shaquille-leonard/

That article isn't right though.

 

It says his dead cap is spread over '24+'25.

 

 

It just '24. 

 

 

And it's just $8m(not $12m)

 

 

That's outside of the $6.1m owed the rest of this season.

[OLD FAN MAN]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

You can’t even take Thanksgiving off from this never ending lava flow of Ballard hate? 
 

I sincerely hope you’re with family and friends today and throughout the holidays. 
 

why do you just assume that I  hate ballard? I dont even know him. to point out that a gm is below average at his job and that he cant build a winning team after 7 years does not mean that I hate him as a man. you defend his record that has been below average but that does not mean that you like him as a man. do you know him? or do you just like a team that is average or below. get real man.

[Painterman]

  IMO Leonard was a shell of himself on the game day field and likely just as lackluster on the practice field. With this in mind,he can't possibly be the leader he once was. Couple this with his fat contract and noticable change in attitude there has to be a distraction in the locker room. 

  In defense of Leonard, none of this is of his choosing. I think he was playing over his head with his smallish frame at a big boy position and is not likely to ever recapture that magic. I'm sure this is rather depressing for a dude who was playing at such a high level. 

  It just seems to me that he can't do it anymore no matter how hard he tries. This is leading to a sad depressing situation that left unchecked will lead to resentment, better to cut ties now.

 

That said... Thanks for the memories 53 and God bless you 🙏

[Hawkeyecolt]

5 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

which is what he was paid for. 
 

he was a liability on the field against the Patriots. Unbelievably bad. 
 

and I shouldn’t be alone in the thought. It’s not me dogging on him. He was by far my favorite colts defender. I’m a big fan. But his play was hard to watch, especially in open space. He was much slower than he was two years ago, which was his biggest strength, and happens to be the key to Franklin and Speed’s play. 

Which is why it is hilarious the some think Leonard should have played the MIKE when Franklin was out. He can’t move and the MIKE in Gus’ system requires the MIKE to cover more ground than the WILL. They looked at him in practice that week and I’m sure it was pretty clear he could cover the necessary ground. It’s also been apparent that he’s avoiding contact.  I get why he would be gun shy after all the concussions.  If you watched him closely in coverage he wasn’t getting enough depth and he looked like a statue. 

[Hawkeyecolt]

5 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

He still gets paid that amount.  That's what I'm saying.   Being cut now saves nothing

He’s got an agent who many think had a client fake injury and miss the start of the season as a way to get a new contract.   Leonard was guaranteed 6.5 million next year if injured.  I think we can connect the dots. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

why do you just assume that I  hate ballard? I dont even know him. to point out that a gm is below average at his job and that he cant build a winning team after 7 years does not mean that I hate him as a man. you defend his record that has been below average but that does not mean that you like him as a man. do you know him? or do you just like a team that is average or below. get real man.

My comment about being a Ballard-hater is entirely about him as a GM , and has nothing to do with him as a person.   The fact that you don’t even know this after 7 years says everything.   
 

Im not telling you to like Ballard….  You can dislike him all you want.   But your arguments are predictable no matter what Ballard does.  He’s almost always wrong.  

 

There are many ways I could answer the specifics of your post, but it wouldn’t get us anywhere.  You’re not changing your view and that’s fine.   Plus, it’s the Holiday season so I’ll turn the other cheek and again wish you a Happy Holiday season. 
 

Hopefully the stretch run of the season makes Colts Nation happy, including you. 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

My comment about being a Ballard-hater is entirely about him as a GM , and has nothing to do with him as a person.   The fact that you don’t even know this after 7 years says everything.   
 

Im not telling you to like Ballard….  You can dislike him all you want.   But your arguments are predictable no matter what Ballard does.  He’s almost always wrong.  

 

There are many ways I could answer the specifics of your post, but it wouldn’t get us anywhere.  You’re not changing your view and that’s fine.   Plus, it’s the Holiday season so I’ll turn the other cheek and again wish you a Happy Holiday season. 
 

Hopefully the stretch run of the season makes Colts Nation happy, including you. 

ballards record with the colts speaks for me. If he was a winner and could turn a team around in 2 years like nick caserio did the texans I would be all for him. I agree with old fan man, ballard has the colts stuck in average and below heading nowhere. Imo we wont have a winner until he is gone. He was a rookie gm learning on the job but he was stuck in his draft building method and had far too many misses in the draft at key positions. you ballard supporters should be able to see that. bottom line he is not good at his job.

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

ballards record with the colts speaks for me. If he was a winner and could turn a team around in 2 years like nick caserio did the texans I would be all for him. I agree with old fan man, ballard has the colts stuck in average and below heading nowhere. Imo we wont have a winner until he is gone. He was a rookie gm learning on the job but he was stuck in his draft building method and had far too many misses in the draft at key positions. you ballard supporters should be able to see that. bottom line he is not good at his job.

I’m glad you got this off your chest.  You and I agree on very little, and that’s fine.  You’re entitled to whatever view you want.  
 

But as I shared with Old Fan Man, we’re simply going to have to agree to disagree.   We see this differently and I’m OK with that.  
 

So please enjoy this holiday season.  I hope you’re surrounded by family and friends.   And maybe we’ll all be pleased with the final 7 games.  
 

Happy Holidays to you….   

[Rally5]

On 11/21/2023 at 2:15 PM, Superman said:

 

It's still a leap to conclude that this is because they were unhappy with him voicing his displeasure. By the way, I don't think he was disrespectful or overly combative in his comments to begin with. I guess whenever a player has a beef with the team, legitimate or not, some people will always side with the team...

 

Also, why couldn't this indicate that he asked for his release? 

There's too much we don't know about the internal 'goings on' I doubt this was rash or spontaneous in any way by either party.

[AwesomeAustin]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’m glad you got this off your chest.  You and I agree on very little, and that’s fine.  You’re entitled to whatever view you want.  
 

But as I shared with Old Fan Man, we’re simply going to have to agree to disagree.   We see this differently and I’m OK with that.  
 

So please enjoy this holiday season.  I hope you’re surrounded by family and friends.   And maybe we’ll all be pleased with the final 7 games.  
 

Happy Holidays to you….   

I appreciate this response. Hope you have a great Thanksgiving weekend. 

[w87r]

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2023/11/24/colts-how-theyve-built-ronnie-harrison-into-their-newest-linebacker/71648881007/

 

 

 

Seems as if the Colts, have been building Harrison to up to move to LB since he got here.

 

 

Snippet from article:

"This was the timid energy he arrived with in Westfield. Then he started working with Gus Bradley and Richard Smith, who have combined for nearly half a century as either linebackers coaches or defensive coordinators. They explained to him that the Jaguars and Browns defenses he played in came from their tree of 4-3, Cover-3-heavy, Seattle-style philosophy.

 

Sometimes the strong safety and the WILL linebacker in our system act very similar," Bradley said. "So we had him in here at strong safety, and we thought, 'Let’s put him in at linebacker on the practice squad. We like his skill set, his ball skills and his speed, so let’s see if we can get him closer to the ball.

 

It's intriguing for sure."

 

 

[Dingus McGirt]

18 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

I doubt that will be a determining factor

The ONLY determining factor will be $$$

[Solid84]

24 minutes ago, w87r said:

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2023/11/24/colts-how-theyve-built-ronnie-harrison-into-their-newest-linebacker/71648881007/

 

 

 

Seems as if the Colts, have been building Harrison to up to move to LB since he got here.

 

 

Snippet from article:

"This was the timid energy he arrived with in Westfield. Then he started working with Gus Bradley and Richard Smith, who have combined for nearly half a century as either linebackers coaches or defensive coordinators. They explained to him that the Jaguars and Browns defenses he played in came from their tree of 4-3, Cover-3-heavy, Seattle-style philosophy.

 

Sometimes the strong safety and the WILL linebacker in our system act very similar," Bradley said. "So we had him in here at strong safety, and we thought, 'Let’s put him in at linebacker on the practice squad. We like his skill set, his ball skills and his speed, so let’s see if we can get him closer to the ball.

 

It's intriguing for sure."

 

 

Let's hope it pans out - we need a LB who can cover.

[richard pallo]

42 minutes ago, w87r said:

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2023/11/24/colts-how-theyve-built-ronnie-harrison-into-their-newest-linebacker/71648881007/

 

 

 

Seems as if the Colts, have been building Harrison to up to move to LB since he got here.

 

 

Snippet from article:

"This was the timid energy he arrived with in Westfield. Then he started working with Gus Bradley and Richard Smith, who have combined for nearly half a century as either linebackers coaches or defensive coordinators. They explained to him that the Jaguars and Browns defenses he played in came from their tree of 4-3, Cover-3-heavy, Seattle-style philosophy.

 

Sometimes the strong safety and the WILL linebacker in our system act very similar," Bradley said. "So we had him in here at strong safety, and we thought, 'Let’s put him in at linebacker on the practice squad. We like his skill set, his ball skills and his speed, so let’s see if we can get him closer to the ball.

 

It's intriguing for sure."

 

 

Very good read.  I found it interesting how they let the practice squad members, who show well , practice with the first team for the last eight plays or so.  They clearly have plans in place to develop and reward players for their performance.  Harrison appears to have met their expectations so there’s a good chance Ballard might have found another gem.  I’m looking forward to seeing him out there.  Go Colts.

[w87r]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Very good read.  I found it interesting how they let the practice squad members, who show well , practice with the first team for the last eight plays or so.  They clearly have plans in place to develop and reward players for their performance.  Harrison appears to have met their expectations so there’s a good chance Ballard might have found another gem.  I’m looking forward to seeing him out there.  Go Colts.

I always liked Harrison, back to his Alabama days.

 

We shall see, our 2 week hiatus is almost up.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Very good read.  I found it interesting how they let the practice squad members, who show well , practice with the first team for the last eight plays or so.  They clearly have plans in place to develop and reward players for their performance.  Harrison appears to have met their expectations so there’s a good chance Ballard might have found another gem.  I’m looking forward to seeing him out there.  Go Colts.

Seems this is also away to make sure the team is prepared when injuries happen. I like it. So many things have come out about Steichen and how he prepared. Even as far as two offenses being installed in TC. One for Richardson and one for Minshew.  

[AKB]

so where is everyone who said shaq was getting too much blame, and he really wasn't washed up? 

 

[Rhodelesstraveled]

They are quiet.  I loved the guy but I knew he was done after the second back surgery and the last concussion.  I think his career is over. 

[EasyE]

23 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

If he was claimed on waivers they would have been.   He wasn't.  The Colts pay the 6.1

I thought he was paid guaranteed money no matter what whether he was claimed or not. I'm probably wrong. The contract and money thing isn't my thing. Thought we saved tons of money cutting for after this season.