2024 NBA, Pacers and all NBA talk

[RollerColt]

2 hours ago, #12. said:

All of the good Pacers teams with Reggie, George and now with Haliburton are somewhat similar.  At their very best, they're always still just a step below elite, a step below the the Jordan, Kobe/Shaq and Lebron teams.  The one time they did have supreme talent they threw it away in Detroit.

 

The good news is there currently is no great team.  Boston could get a lifetime achievement award championship - just stick around long enough and you might win one - but the Celtics scare no one.  Compared to great teams from the past, Dallas isn't much.  

 

The Pacers shouldn't be thinking 3-4 years from now.  While the NBA is weak, they should make a push in the next year or two.

I agree. I don’t even begin to know basketball like football, but there’s got to be some free agents that can make an immediate impact on this team.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Bill Walton RIP. I didn't see that coming. That is sad. He was a funny free spirited guy, top 5 college player ever, top 50 NBA player ever, and won championships on every level. 

[NFLfan]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Bill Walton RIP. I didn't see that coming. That is sad. He was a funny free spirited guy, top 5 college player ever, top 50 NBA player ever, and won championships on every level. 

 

Great player. I also loved his contributions whenever he was on the Mike & Mike Show. I was a big fan.

 

RIP

 

If anyone has the Athletic, they have a good article.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5420854/2024/05/27/bill-walton-obituary?source=user-shared-article

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Great player. I also loved his contributions whenever he was on the Mike & Mike Show. I was a big fan.

 

RIP

 

If anyone has the Athletic, they have a good article.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5420854/2024/05/27/bill-walton-obituary?source=user-shared-article

Yeah he was only 71 but I just heard he had cancer, I had no idea. This is a day ruiner. He was such a big name for the sport of basketball. I am having trouble believing this. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

With me, I look at average life expectancy at 80 years old. Once someone turns 80 the clock really ticks. My mom is 71 and she still gets around like a 50 yr old. Tough day after the news of Bill Walton. 

[w87r]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The window is open for the Pacers next year simply because their whole team will likely be back and there is no Jordan or Lebron blocking anyone.

There's a lot of questions on what this team will look like next year. A lot of people are returning, but some could be used in trades if we go after, say, Paul George)

 

Returning Depth Chart:(under contract)

PG: Haliburton, McConnell 

SG: Nembhard, Mathurin, Sheppard 

SF: Nesmith, Brown

PF: Walker

C: Turner, Jackson

 

 

Free Agents:

Pascal Siakam(most likely to stay, but cost a lot $40m+) **

Doug McDermott(would like back at 2yr $10m range)

James Johnson(vet min)

Jalen Smith (player) - might elect to see if he can get more than $5.4m on open market 

Obi Toppin (restricted)- could be expensive to retain/ potential S+T possibilities 

Oscar Tshiebwe (restricted)(vet min)

Quenton Jackson (restricted)(vet min)

Isaiah Wong (restricted)(vet min)

 

 

 

 

So here is where the problem lays. Indy is small market, I think there is almost no chance we will go into the tax. So here is how that is looking.

 

1st Apron Tax Cap Space:(including $5.4m PO for Smith)

$64m

 

**Siakam - Siakam should start around $42.6 million and could be 5yrs, $247.1m or 4yrs, $190.8 million.(This was based off of $142m, think they are looking at $141m now so could lower a bit. Not much.

 

So Pascal will probably most likely cost around $42.6m next season

 

 

That brings our 1st Apron Space to: $21.4m

 

Toppin (RFA tender $8-$10m)(more than likely will receive an offer bigger than that)

Tshiebwe, Wong + Jackson - $5.6m

 

Down to $5.8-$7.8m in 1st Apron Space: (2 open roster spots)

 

McDermott? - $5m?

Johnson? - $2m?

 

 

Going to be interesting, and is fast approaching.

 

 

Trade Pieces:

Siakam (S+T, if can't agree on contract?)

Toppin(S+T)

Smith (if he picks up PO)

Nesmith

We also have (3) 2nd round picks and future 1st.

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, w87r said:

There's a lot of questions on what this team will look like next year. A lot of people are returning, but some could be used in trades if we go after, say, Paul George)

 

Returning Depth Chart:(under contract)

PG: Haliburton, McConnell 

SG: Nembhard, Mathurin, Sheppard 

SF: Nesmith, Brown

PF: Walker

C: Turner, Jackson

 

 

Free Agents:

Pascal Siakam(most likely to stay, but cost a lot $40m+) **

Doug McDermott(would like back at 2yr $10m range)

James Johnson(vet min)

Jalen Smith (player) - might elect to see if he can get more than $5.4m on open market 

Obi Toppin (restricted)- could be expensive to retain/ potential S+T possibilities 

Oscar Tshiebwe (restricted)(vet min)

Quenton Jackson (restricted)(vet min)

Isaiah Wong (restricted)(vet min)

 

 

 

 

So here is where the problem lays. Indy is small market, I think there is almost no chance we will go into the tax. So here is how that is looking.

 

1st Apron Tax Cap Space:(including $5.4m PO for Smith)

$64m

 

**Siakam - Siakam should start around $42.6 million and could be 5yrs, $247.1m or 4yrs, $190.8 million.(This was based off of $142m, think they are looking at $141m now so could lower a bit. Not much.

 

So Pascal will probably most likely cost around $42.6m next season

 

 

That brings our 1st Apron Space to: $21.4m

 

Toppin (RFA tender $8-$10m)(more than likely will receive an offer bigger than that)

Tshiebwe, Wong + Jackson - $5.6m

 

Down to $5.8-$7.8m in 1st Apron Space: (2 open roster spots)

 

McDermott? - $5m?

Johnson? - $2m?

 

 

Going to be interesting, and is fast approaching.

 

 

Trade Pieces:

Siakam (S+T, if can't agree on contract?)

Toppin(S+T)

Smith (if he picks up PO)

Nesmith

We also have (3) 2nd round picks and future 1st.

Untouchables have to be Haliburton, Turner, Siakam, Nembhard, and McConnell. Nesmith and Toppin, even maybe Mathurin in a deal with those guys could bring another all-star here. All 3 are young and good.

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah he was only 71 but I just heard he had cancer, I had no idea. This is a day ruiner. He was such a big name for the sport of basketball. I am having trouble believing this. 

 

Too young. Nowadays, 71 is like being 51. Way too young.

[RollerColt]

We’re playing hard and not giving up I’ll say that. 

[RollerColt]

We’ve seen this song and dance before. Let’s hope that tonight’s the night our fortune changes!

[ADnum1]

Go Pacers !!

[#12.]

Masterclass in closing out games.  

[RollerColt]

It was a fun season. Just not enough. Hope they can learn from this and return next year, but I’m holding my breath on ever winning it all. 

[#12.]

The way they lost these games will certainly drain some of the positive feeling out of the offseason, but talent-wise, they're pretty close.  They're closer than the Colts are.

[AwesomeAustin]

Was a darn good season for the Pacers. Rough getting swept in the ECF but Boston was clearly the better team. There were games the Pacers could have won and made a series out of it and perhaps made it to the finals. In the end, they have a good team with some big decisions this offseason. I don’t know enough about basketball and the landscape of the league to even begin suggesting what they should do. I do know they have some good pieces on the bench and will be interested to see if they let them mature and contribute more or trade them for assets to win now. 

[w87r]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/pacers-offseason-primer-time-for-one-more-significant-addition/

 

 

 

Good breakdown on Pacers upcoming off-season. Although they don't have Haliburton's salary bump to $42m showing yet.

[throwing BBZ]

Myles looked lost out there. He mentally couldn't keep up with the speed of the game. 

 Finally, the effort to block out, and our defensive rebounding was a appalling by a few of our guys, and the Celtics 3 point success had me wanting hurl.

[2006Coltsbestever]

It wasn't a great season (great would be making the Finals) but I would classify it as a very good one, one reason why is, we overachieved. Making the Final 4 is a very good accomplishment and winning 47 games to stay out of the playin scenario is pretty respectable. We also won a Game 7 at NY in the Semi's which is almost impossible to do no matter who they have out there. They did have Brunson and Divincenzo for that Game 7 for most of the game. Brunson had to leave because of a broken hand late in the 3rd but by then we were up big anyway. 

 

Even though we got swept by Boston, it didn't even really feel like a sweep. We lost both home games without Haliburton by only 3 points and gave away Game 1 losing in OT and that was at Boston. They really only kicked our butt in Game 2. 

 

All in all, we just lost to a slightly better team who has been in the Conference Finals for many years - so their experience in closing games was better. 

 

We need to add 1 more piece and it needs to be someone that just focuses on being physical in the paint defensively and wants to Rebound more than anything. Turner is more of a stretch Center that has a score first mentality, he is a great shot blocker but isn't physical enough when guys come into the paint.

 

There are 5 levels to basketball:

Level 1 - Just making the Playoffs (above average)

Level 2 - Winning a Playoff series (good)

Level 3 - Winning 2 Playoff series = making the Conference Finals (very good)

Level 4 - Winning 3 Playoff series = Winning the Conference (great)

Level 5 - Being a World Champion

 

-We reached Level 3

 

I won't be a sore loser so I will congratulate @NFLUpand the other Boston fans for winning the East. They are just better as of now.

[w87r]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

Myles looked lost out there. He mentally couldn't keep up with the speed of the game. 

 Finally, the effort to block out, and our defensive rebounding was a appalling by a few of our guys, and the Celtics 3 point success had me wanting hurl.

Turner is the prototypical modern big man. Space the floor and protect the rim. Could he rebound better? Sure, but he spaces floor on offense which keeps him away from offensive glass and protects the rim which takes him off of the defensive glass at times. There's only so many Embiid's, Wemby's, Davis's, in the league that have the all around offensive  and defensive game. 

 

When he was younger(not that he is old) he was more aggressive in blocking shots which led to injuries and foul trouble. I think he has toned it back a bit to try and avoid injuries and fouls, to be able to play and stay in more games. He did play in the most games(77) he's has played in since his 2nd season(81) in the league, and (16) more than last season, (30-35) more than the 2 prior seasons. So it seems to of helped in that aspect. He still isn't far off his career average though. Just a dip from league leader numbers he's had prior. He also played the fewest minutes per game he has since he was a rookie, so seems to be maybe a concerted effort to try and keep him healthy?

 

He has played the best he has ever played the last 2 years offensively, direct result of Haliburton, no doubt. And is just now about to turn 28 so entering his prime.

 

He will never be a big average per game rebounder. He will have games he can get 12-15, but more times than not will be in that 6-7 range.

 

I for one, still hope the team sees Myles as an integral part of the future.

 

Siakam is an ok rebounder, but not great, we actually have a really good rebounder on the roster, Tshiebwe, but we need more rebounding from the 1,2,3 spots.

 

So that seems to be our biggest need to me. We are a good team though reiand the future is bright. Definitely feels like a lost opportunity here. Feel like we should be up 3-1 even with Haliburton missing the 2 games.

 

Rebounding isn't Toppin's strong suit either as he likes to leak out on the fast break rather than crash boards.

 

When Toppin and Turner/or Siakam is out there together, there won't be much rebounding going on.

 

Jackson is a pretty solid rebounder, just creates spacing problems.

 

Smith is decent rebounder, but I think he opts out of his $5.4m contract and becomes free agent. If not, it just makes it more crowded for potential Tshiebwe minutes.

 

 

 

 

 

Going to be interesting to see what this team looks like next year. I think we might be in for more changes than we think, especially if we look to bring in a 3rd big name.

 

We have quite a few pieces to make things work though, if we want to go that route 

[w87r]

(3) 90%+ win probability on ESPN in the 4 games.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, w87r said:

(3) 90%+ win probability on ESPN in the 4 games.

 

In Game 1, it was at 97.5% with 8.5 seconds left. Game 3, it was at 94% with 2:35 to play. Game 1 was one of those rare miracle comebacks by the other team. Of course, in Game 3, we all could debate had Haliburton played, we probably do win that being up 8 with 2:35.

[w87r]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

In Game 1, it was at 97.5% with 8.5 seconds left. Game 3, it was at 94% with 2:35 to play. Game 1 was one of those rare miracle comebacks by the other team. Of course, in Game 3, we all could debate had Haliburton played, we probably do win that being up 8 with 2:35.

We were so deep we could withstand the Haliburton loss at least for a few games.

 

 

We actually played better defense as a whole in games 3+4, which isn't too surprising as Haliburton's defense is definitely lacking. He can make some plays here and there but usually gets picked on, on that end of the floor.

 

 

It allowed everyone else to play a little freer and aggressive as well.

 

 

Nembhard really showed out, although a little too much, as he tried to play hero ball at the end of both games 3+4, which ended up costing us both of them.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Looking at the Finals, will it be failure for Boston if they do not win it all. My answer to that is, It will. They have been to 6 Conference Finals with most of this core team and now 2 Finals. I thought losing Marcus Smart may hurt them a tad but it hasn't at all this year. They will be favored in Vegas to win it as well.

 

Personally, and it's not even hate but I think Dallas will beat them. Boston is deeper but Luka is better than Tatum and Irving and Brown are a wash. Boston is finally going to play a team where they don't have the 2 best players. Dallas has physical Big's too in Lively and Gafford, PJ Washington can also shoot 3s.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, w87r said:

We were so deep we could withstand the Haliburton loss at least for a few games.

 

 

We actually played better defense as a whole in games 3+4, which isn't too surprising as Haliburton's defense is definitely lacking. He can make some plays here and there but usually gets picked on, on that end of the floor.

 

 

It allowed everyone else to play a little freer and aggressive as well.

 

 

Nembhard really showed out, although a little too much, as he tried to play hero ball at the end of both games 3+4, which ended up costing us both of them.

Where losing Haliburton hurt was, we made some bad decisions on offense at the end of Games 3 and 4, where he usually makes the right pass or makes an open 3. Scoring wise Nembhard was great, but in both games he had some dumb turnovers in the last minute. 

[w87r]

48 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Where losing Haliburton hurt was, we made some bad decisions on offense at the end of Games 3 and 4, where he usually makes the right pass or makes an open 3. Scoring wise Nembhard was great, but in both games he had some dumb turnovers in the last minute. 

Should of called a timeout in game 3 on the last possession.

 

 

Carlisle deserves a lot of blame as well. Bad rotations, bad challenge usage, no timeouts when needed.

 

 

All in all is was a good year, but the more I think about the missed opportunity this year ended up being, it's a little rough.

 

We had a legit chance at a championship at this point of the playoffs and outplayed them in 3 of the 4 games for 47 minutes.

 

 

Just hope to return this deep in the playoffs again soon, it's never a given.

[John Waylon]

Ouch. Didn’t expect a sweep, but I’m also not surprised by it. Boston is the best of the bunch. Have been all year. The only way the West has a chance in the finals is to combine the two teams left into super teams to beat them. And even then, Boston still has a real good chance. 
 

All I can say is the future is bright and it’s fun to be a fan again. I’m still too sports emotionally drained from watching my favorite driver lose the 500 out of T3 coming to the checkers with my own eyes to go through a postmortem on the Pacers yet. 😵‍💫

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

22 minutes ago, w87r said:

Should of called a timeout in game 3 on the last possession.

 

 

Carlisle deserves a lot of blame as well. Bad rotations, bad challenge usage, no timeouts when needed.

 

 

All in all is was a good year, but the more I think about the missed opportunity this year ended up being, it's a little rough.

 

We had a legit chance at a championship at this point of the playoffs and outplayed them in 3 of the 4 games for 47 minutes.

 

 

Just hope to return this deep in the playoffs again soon, it's never a given.

Carlilse, I thought did a bad job at the end of Games 1 and 3. Having said that, his coaching against the Bucks and Knicks was excellent I thought. After falling down vs the Knicks 0-2, his adjustments he made were good, especially playing McConnell more. McConnell is a borderline very good player, forget good. 

[w87r]

I think Haliburton playing on the Olympic team is going to help his growth tremendously.

 

 

I know we are going to be a tough out whenever, wherever we play for the next few seasons.

 

Windows open

[2006Coltsbestever]

Nice job by Minnesota, they squeaked one out to prolong the series. Series is still over; they won't beat Dallas 4 in a row. Nice job, nevertheless. Towns shot like Al Horford from 3  .

[w87r]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Nice job by Minnesota, they squeaked one out to prolong the series. Series is still over; they won't beat Dallas 4 in a row. Nice job, nevertheless. Towns shot like Al Horford from 3  .

That series has been pretty similar to ours.

 

 

Wolves have lost the games late.

 

 

They can go get game 5 at home and put the pressure back on Dallas to close them out in Game 6.

[Myles]

Go Dallas

[2006Coltsbestever]

57 minutes ago, w87r said:

That series has been pretty similar to ours.

 

 

Wolves have lost the games late.

 

 

They can go get game 5 at home and put the pressure back on Dallas to close them out in Game 6.

In a way it is almost better that Dallas lost this one. I Don’t like the idea of being off for than a week. Rest is good but only if it is like 3 days or so.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Tyrese Haliburton resume already:

*2-time All-star = 2023, 2024.

 

*3rd team All-NBA = 2024.

 

*Selected to the 2024 Olympic Team.

 

*2024 Assist Champ, 10.9 a game.

 

*As a player, made a Final 4 = 2024.

 

-He just turned 24 years old and has already had a great career. Pacers future is bright with this kid and he loves Indiana and playing here which is important.

 

 

[NFLUp]

On 5/28/2024 at 11:43 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Looking at the Finals, will it be failure for Boston if they do not win it all. My answer to that is, It will. They have been to 6 Conference Finals with most of this core team and now 2 Finals. I thought losing Marcus Smart may hurt them a tad but it hasn't at all this year. They will be favored in Vegas to win it as well.

 

Personally, and it's not even hate but I think Dallas will beat them. Boston is deeper but Luka is better than Tatum and Irving and Brown are a wash. Boston is finally going to play a team where they don't have the 2 best players. Dallas has physical Big's too in Lively and Gafford, PJ Washington can also shoot 3s.

Uh, who exactly was on this core team that made it to 6 ECG?

 

just two guys.  Tatum and Brown.

 

Thats it.  Two forwards.

 

Luka isn’t better than Tatum.  Holiday will lock down Kyrie.  No one can defend both Tatum and Brown well.

 

And the biggest part?

 

No one can guard Porzingis.

 

This will go 5-6, with the Celtics winning relatively easily.

[Myles]

8 hours ago, NFLUp said:

Uh, who exactly was on this core team that made it to 6 ECG?

 

just two guys.  Tatum and Brown.

 

Thats it.  Two forwards.

 

Luka isn’t better than Tatum.  Holiday will lock down Kyrie.  No one can defend both Tatum and Brown well.

 

And the biggest part?

 

No one can guard Porzingis.

 

This will go 5-6, with the Celtics winning relatively easily.

I'll be rooting against them, but i think Boston will win it all.

[w87r]

To go along with Haliburton playing in the Olympics.

 

 

Nembhard will be playing or Team Canada 

Mathurin will be with Team Canada, won't play though.

 

 

Man that Mathurin injury just keeps compounding.

 

 

Missed out on potential championship run/ experience 

Missed out on big role for Team Canada to further push his development along going into next season.

[teganslaw]

The Timberwolves are favored by 5 points according to DraftKings, 4.5 points according to Sportsline. This surprises me. The Mavericks lead 3-1, only need a win to reach the final, yet Minnesota is favored? I wonder how the sports sites reached that conclusion. 

[w87r]

44 minutes ago, teganslaw said:

The Timberwolves are favored by 5 points according to DraftKings, 4.5 points according to Sportsline. This surprises me. The Mavericks lead 3-1, only need a win to reach the final, yet Minnesota is favored? I wonder how the sports sites reached that conclusion. 

Mavericks are up 3-1 but Wolves have led every game in the 4th quarter and it's at home.

 

 

Not too surprised their favored.

[chad72]

Mavericks in 6, is how it will end up.

[w87r]

5 hours ago, chad72 said:

Mavericks in 6, is how it will end up.

In 6 hours? Lol