Grover Stewart suspended six games for PED violation (merge)

[DougDew]

16 minutes ago, husker61 said:

steroids lower your sperm count! Anything raising your testosterone levels will do the same. 

 

13 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Never said it was steroids. There are all kinds of fertility medication and all kinds of PED. Not saying I believe it but it’s possible. Remember when manning rumor was going around about him takinf something for his neck. I think it turned out to be his wife’s fertility medicine that had been delivered to their house. Then they had twins.

I believe the drug that Mathis tested positive for...a fertility drug... is considered a masking agent by the NFL, not a direct anabolic.  Mathis' excuse for having that masking agent was infertility issues ( I believe after they already had kids before the twins?  maybe not).  I may be wrong about that.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Cleveland is fourth ranked rushing offense. Ouch 

[gregr507]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

There are substances like DHEA and DHT that might be used in a steroid cycle, but are sold as unregulated supplements. And it's possible that a pre-workout powder that you like and is supposed to be "clean" is packaged in a plant that also packages DHEA or DHT, and there could be some cross contamination. 

 

I don't know what the testing tolerances are for this stuff, or how much a guy like Grover would have to take to fail a PED test, but just pointing out that it's possible, in theory, for a trusted supplement to be tainted.

 

The NFL's lead doctor advises that players stay away from supplements, period, probably because supplements in general are scammy and unregulated. But I think there's probably a market already being served for athletes who want trustworthy supplements. 

Yeah I suppose it's possible, but DHT (never heard of anyone taking this purposely but maybe they do) and DHEA are natural substances that occur in the body. If they were high enough to flag on a test, and the nfl to ban a guy for 6 games for it, he must have been taking some SERIOUSLY contaminated supplements. It's clearly an excuse to try to mitigate the fallout of a positive test. Mathis's "fertility aids" also happen to conveniently be used in PCT, which is when someone takes medications that boost their test back up quickly after a cycle of anabolics, because otherwise they'd have very low testosterone for a month, and lose some of the gains they got from the cycle. I understand that people want to think the best of their favorite players, but come on... I'd almost respect a guy more who was straight up and admits he made a poor decision than someone who hides behind this "tainted supps" excuse. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

3 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

See you all in 24 lol.

dont leave please

[Superman]

1 minute ago, gregr507 said:

Yeah I suppose it's possible, but DHT (never heard of anyone taking this purposely but maybe they do) and DHEA are natural substances that occur in the body. If they were high enough to flag on a test, and the nfl to ban a guy for 6 games for it, he must have been taking some SERIOUSLY contaminated supplements. It's clearly an excuse to try to mitigate the fallout of a positive test. Mathis's "fertility aids" also happen to conveniently be used in PCT, which is when someone takes medications that boost their test back up quickly after a cycle of anabolics, because otherwise they'd have very low testosterone for a month, and lose some of the gains they got from the cycle. I understand that people want to think the best of their favorite players, but come on... I'd almost respect a guy more who was straight up and admits he made a poor decision than someone who hides behind this "tainted supps" excuse. 

 

Same is true of testosterone, EPO, red blood cells, insulin, HGH, etc. They're testing for abnormally high counts of these substances. I agree, it's a weak excuse.

 

I'm not a doctor or a scientist, but hypothetically, a guy with temporarily impaired kidney function -- like Luck in 2015 -- could pop positive for a banned substance from a tainted supplement. And he'd probably still be suspended, and lose any appeal. 

 

I said earlier, I'm not super rigid in my view of PEDs, and I think the general perception of PED use is overboard and overkill. Still, the rules are pretty clear, and they aren't that hard to follow. I don't have very much sympathy for players who get suspended, no matter what excuse they offer.

[gregr507]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Same is true of testosterone, EPO, red blood cells, insulin, HGH, etc. They're testing for abnormally high counts of these substances. I agree, it's a weak excuse.

 

I'm not a doctor or a scientist, but hypothetically, a guy with temporarily impaired kidney function -- like Luck in 2015 -- could pop positive for a banned substance from a tainted supplement. And he'd probably still be suspended, and lose any appeal. 

 

I said earlier, I'm not super rigid in my view of PEDs, and I think the general perception of PED use is overboard and overkill. Still, the rules are pretty clear, and they aren't that hard to follow. I don't have very much sympathy for players who get suspended, no matter what excuse they offer.

What you say is true about those others occurring naturally. I do know about the science, but don't know the specifics of the nfl's testing and positive test policies. However, I imagine they build in a reasonable amount of leeway. Let's say the upper limit normal level of test in a standard test is around 1000 ng/dL. If a player has 1200 ng/dL, are they gonna suspend him? Almost certainly not. It wouldn't necessarily be surprising that an elite athlete might naturally have higher test levels. And the decision that comes with negative publicity for the player, 6 games missed wages, and untold potential damage to his career.... well, I imagine it isn't made lightly. I have to believe a suspension would only come from levels that are significantly out of normal range. As far as I'm aware, the substance of note that is flagged in a test resulting in a suspension isn't usually reported or made public, so it's hard to know in each case. Lots of anabolics that bodybuilders, for example, may take are not natural, so would be easily noticed. I don't know if NFL players mostly stick to testosterone, or they use these other anabolics. But seeing the actual substance they got flagged for would help somewhat to clarify whether we should believe the excuses given. 

 

Anyway, I think a lot of people are a bit ignorant to the level of steroid use in professional sports. Put yourself in Mathis's shoes. You're getting into your upper 30's, losing a step here and there, and there's always a young guy who wants your job. You can either juice and accept the risk of potentially getting caught, but with the upside of making millions of dollars. Or you can not juice, age and slow down naturally, and be out of a job altogether. These guys are the elite of the elite athletes, it's not surprising they will do what they can to get an edge. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Fake twitter 

[superrep1967]

3 hours ago, JediXMan said:

If this is a first offense shouldn’t the suspension be shorter? Not condoning what illegal substances he took.

Can he appeal it I mean maybe get it shorter?

[cdgacoltsfan]

28 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Cleveland is fourth ranked rushing offense. Ouch 

Yeah...they Have 750 yards total and average 4.5 ypc....Colts ave 4.3 ypc and have 700 total yards 

Browns also have the 30th ranked passing offense ...double Ouch!

I'd be more worried about the Browns D

[OLD FAN MAN]

i am glad we have a team of good character guys

[coltsblue1844]

28 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Tamoxifen has been used to try to increase male fertility, and it's a banned "anabolic agent." I'm not offering this as a defense of Mathis, Grover, or anyone else, just countering your point.

It's also used to restart natural hormone production after using anabolic steroids ...or to block excess estrogen in men while taking steroids.

 

Has anyone bothered to look at what is required to actually fail a steroid test in most Pro sports? The baseline testosterone level in normal healthy men is much lower than what athletes are allowed to show on a test before they are considered positive for steroids. The reason very few people in professional sports fail tests for steroids even though the majority of them are taking them, is because you have to really mess up to fail a test.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

LMAO

 

 

4 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

i am glad we have a team of good character guys

If happens. A lot of times they don’t do it on purpose.

[coltsblue1844]

32 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

I believe the drug that Mathis tested positive for...a fertility drug... is considered a masking agent by the NFL, not a direct anabolic.  Mathis' excuse for having that masking agent was infertility issues ( I believe after they already had kids before the twins?  maybe not).  I may be wrong about that.

It's also used to restart natural hormone production in men after using steroids... Also used to block excess estrogen production in men while taking steroids.

 

Like a few other guys have stated on here I think too many fans are naive to the fact that the majority of professional athletes are taking stuff

[OLD FAN MAN]

next man up, maybe the backup will be better and when he comes back he will be the backup if ballard keeps him

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Question could Dayo move to nose tackle? Or what about moving Buckner and our Bryan at 3 tech?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Could move Dayo to 3 tech and Buckner to nose. I forgot about Lewis too. Lewis can play on the inside.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Could move Dayo to 3 tech and Buckner to nose.

might work

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, OLD FAN MAN said:

might work

Lewis has had the ability to move inside too.

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Lewis has had the ability to move inside too.

We are thin at NT.  The guys you mentioned are lighter guys who play the inside when the DL is in full speed pass rush mode and Grover goes out.  We are thin at guys who can stuff the run.

[JediXMan]

Crazy what a  difference a few weeks makes. Coming off a big divisional win, AR initially dodges serious injuries. Minshew looked good. Everything since then has been one bad news after another smh.

[AKB]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

We don’t go to trash.   And you should know that.   

well tayvon bryan is okay. then what? Johnson II ? 

 

then who next to johnson II? practice squad? 

 

everytime the opposing team gets to about half field we go 2nd team dline, so thats gonna put bryan and johnson II

 

im not confident in that combo for long durations. 

 

hopefully they prove me wrong and play well, but i expect to be prone to runs right up the middle. I also see buckner being more tired, and possibly pickup an injury of his own if he is over used with grove out. 

 

we are about to see the weakness of this defense imo 

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 hour ago, IrsaysArmy said:

Good, you really shouldn’t. Theres no need to unconditionally support a team. Especially or as dysfunctional as the Colts 

One of the greatest lines my wife has used in my 60 plus years on this earth and being Obsessive Compulsive over the Baltimore/Indianapolis Colts. she said this “As much love that you show the Colt’s, they have never truly loved you back.” I would debate that as I was in Miami having the champagne rain fall on my face vs. Chicago. It’s these moments where things go bad, that I believe the football Gods will eventually smile on us. 
I see so many great fans on this forum, of course there are people on here that think they are much smarter than 99% of us, I smile and realize that 1% is like that in their Real life. We all have them in our life, “the know it all” with an opinion on everything. The best remedy is ignore them. I will be a Colt’s fan forever. Go Blue!

 

[AKB]

1 hour ago, IinD said:

Without getting controversial I'm assuming he juiced. Not sure I've ever seen meat from China or Mexico at Whole Foods or whatnot... Lol

grove is an angel, he ate some tacos from his local mexican joint and thats what happened. 

[husker61]

3 minutes ago, AKB said:

grove is an angel, he ate some tacos from his local mexican joint and thats what happened. 

no, it was high level off-season training in Mexico and then some in china.😁

[Moosejawcolt]

4 hours ago, coltsfan_canada said:

 

 

We really dont catch a break. 

I don't know, bout u but I am so ready to move on from Ballard. Just rip the band aif of and let Steichen pick one of his buds from the Eagles and they can rebuild this roster.

[AKB]

3 minutes ago, husker61 said:

no, it was high level off-season training in Mexico and then some in china.😁

exactly i see no fault in the man he makes chicken wings for his teammates. 

[husker61]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I don't know, bout u but I am so ready to move on from Ballard. Just rip the band aif of and let Steichen pick one of his buds from the Eagles and they can rebuild this roster.

because Ballard made Stewart take ped’s and tackled Richardson.

[AKB]

Just now, husker61 said:

because Ballard made Stewart take ped’s and tackled Richardson.

ballard also interfered with shaq leonards nervous system and has caused a 20% reduction in output

[RollerColt]

3 hours ago, PRnum1 said:

My fellow Colts fans can't you see ??

 

This is the curse of Luck !!

 

No team in the history of mankind has this much bad luck !!!

 

What can we do to break the curse ???

Put him in the Ring of Honor and apologize for being booed. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I don't know, bout u but I am so ready to move on from Ballard. Just rip the band aif of and let Steichen pick one of his buds from the Eagles and they can rebuild this roster.

How is Richardson getting hurt and Grover ingesting something he shouldn’t Ballards fault. What if a new GM came in and didn’t like Richardson.

[Painterman]

Funny... Some people act as if the guilty player has the character of a Charles Manson. Reality... If the league did 100 percent same day testing we would all be watching six weeks of Colombo reruns on Sunday.

 

PEDs= NFL life🙈🙉🙊

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

How is Richardson getting hurt and Grover ingesting something he shouldn’t Ballards fault. What if a new GM came in and didn’t like Richardson.

I said this earlier.

 

Most college QBs that are picked #4 have a demonstrated history of playing time in high school and college to show their bodies can handle punishment.  The players who have bodies that can't hold up are usually weeded out as NFL prospects because they can't play enough college ball.   They play ball, and they build up an injury history.  Its tough for one of those players to build up an injury history if they don't play much college ball.

 

Not saying that AR isn't built good enough, but there seems to be an oddity of how often he can get hurt by routine plays that you wonder if Ballard did full due diligence in that aspect of AR.  If he didn't, then drafting AR #4 is certainly his fault.

 

At this point, we don't know that the Colts dealing with a pick 4 QB on IR is Ballard's fault.  But it could be.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I said this earlier.

 

Most college QBs that are picked #4 have a demonstrated history of playing time in high school and college to show their bodies can handle punishment.  The players who have bodies that can't hold up are usually weeded out as NFL prospects because they can't play enough college ball.   They play ball, and they build up an injury history.  Its tough for one of those players to build up an injury history if they don't play much college ball.

 

Not saying that AR isn't built good enough, but there seems to be an oddity of how often he can get hurt by routine plays that you wonder if Ballard did full due diligence in that aspect of AR.  If he didn't, then drafting AR #4 is certainly his fault.

 

At this point, we don't know that the Colts dealing with a pick 4 QB on IR is Ballard's fault.  But it could be.

 

Zero percent is it Ballards fault.

[life long]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

 

This locker room has been complete and utter failure for a while now. Lack of leadership(or nagative leadership) on multiple levels. This whole thing started to disintegrate with their response to the pandemic - the worst team with their response to the pandemic, a team captain lying to media about being vaccinated, then they all got sick for the most important games and % the bed in TWO "win and you're in" games for the playoffs... then the %show of a season last year... then a player caught betting... on his own team, then another player caught with PEDs... 

 

There is just something lacking in this locker room.  

What does the pandemic response have to do with this current team? That was one player who has not been a colt long enough to disprove your point. 

[NewColtsFan]

55 minutes ago, AKB said:

well tayvon bryan is okay. then what? Johnson II ? 

 

then who next to johnson II? practice squad? 

 

everytime the opposing team gets to about half field we go 2nd team dline, so thats gonna put bryan and johnson II

 

im not confident in that combo for long durations. 

 

hopefully they prove me wrong and play well, but i expect to be prone to runs right up the middle. I also see buckner being more tired, and possibly pickup an injury of his own if he is over used with grove out. 

 

we are about to see the weakness of this defense imo 

You’re probably right.   But hopefully knowing that they’re going to play more snaps, more important snaps, hopefully some of our second string will step up.   It’ll be interesting to watch.  Not just this week, but the rest of the season.  

[Colts.sb41]

On the plus side Adebawore could earn reps and hopefully get better

[DougDew]

22 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Zero percent is it Ballards fault.

 

Not his fault for what?   I don't think you are understanding what is being suggested.

[Peter Nova]

1 hour ago, husker61 said:

because Ballard made Stewart take ped’s and tackled Richardson.

 

No, because after 7 years and 1 playoff win, it's time for a front office change.  There is a GM out west, who wins with Jimmy G and Brock Purdy, because he's constructed a very good roster. The Colts aren't just a franchise QB a way. This roster is not that good. 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, gregr507 said:

What you say is true about those others occurring naturally. I do know about the science, but don't know the specifics of the nfl's testing and positive test policies. However, I imagine they build in a reasonable amount of leeway. Let's say the upper limit normal level of test in a standard test is around 1000 ng/dL. If a player has 1200 ng/dL, are they gonna suspend him? Almost certainly not. It wouldn't necessarily be surprising that an elite athlete might naturally have higher test levels. And the decision that comes with negative publicity for the player, 6 games missed wages, and untold potential damage to his career.... well, I imagine it isn't made lightly. I have to believe a suspension would only come from levels that are significantly out of normal range. As far as I'm aware, the substance of note that is flagged in a test resulting in a suspension isn't usually reported or made public, so it's hard to know in each case. Lots of anabolics that bodybuilders, for example, may take are not natural, so would be easily noticed. I don't know if NFL players mostly stick to testosterone, or they use these other anabolics. But seeing the actual substance they got flagged for would help somewhat to clarify whether we should believe the excuses given. 

 

Anyway, I think a lot of people are a bit ignorant to the level of steroid use in professional sports. Put yourself in Mathis's shoes. You're getting into your upper 30's, losing a step here and there, and there's always a young guy who wants your job. You can either juice and accept the risk of potentially getting caught, but with the upside of making millions of dollars. Or you can not juice, age and slow down naturally, and be out of a job altogether. These guys are the elite of the elite athletes, it's not surprising they will do what they can to get an edge. 

 

1 hour ago, coltsblue1844 said:

It's also used to restart natural hormone production after using anabolic steroids ...or to block excess estrogen in men while taking steroids.

 

Has anyone bothered to look at what is required to actually fail a steroid test in most Pro sports? The baseline testosterone level in normal healthy men is much lower than what athletes are allowed to show on a test before they are considered positive for steroids. The reason very few people in professional sports fail tests for steroids even though the majority of them are taking them, is because you have to really mess up to fail a test.

 

Agreed with all of this.

 

From what I'm reading in the policy, the threshold for the T:E ratio is 4:1. A normal level is 1:1, with some variance. So basically you have to be four times higher than the "normal" amount. That's a significant amount of leeway, which makes sense for pro athletes. The Tour de France has historically been considered a dirty sport; they lowered their thresholds from 8:1, to 6:1, and now to 4:1. I'm thinking it's a reasonable level.

 

Also, we don't know what Grover tested positive for, and probably never will. I don't really care. Like I said, I'm not a strict moralist on this topic. I just know that, in a sport with some of the greatest pound for pound athletes in the world, they all get tested, but only a handful ever get popped for PEDs, so it's probably not difficult to avoid a suspension. 

[Superman]

44 minutes ago, life long said:

What does the pandemic response have to do with this current team? That was one player who has not been a colt long enough to disprove your point. 

 

I'm not exactly co-signing his point, but the Colts had one of the lowest rates of vaccination (maybe the lowest) in the league. And in contrast with other teams, whose coaches and execs and especially best players were strong advocates for vaccination, four of the Colts best, most prominent players were openly against vaccination, and may have dissuaded other players on the team. By the time the coaches and execs started talking about it, the Colts were way behind the rest of the league, and it was too late.

 

This is not to take a side pro or against. But stitches point is that other teams leadership and locker rooms showed an ability to unite around a difficult topic in an uncertain time, and the Colts were unable to do the same. 

 

I don't think I agree with him about this reflecting a problem in the current locker room. And I don't even think the Grover suspension is necessarily a reflection of a locker room problem. But it's certainly been a rough stretch of time for this team, we've been lurching from one crisis to another since 2015.