Jonathan Taylor comments on his contract/Request trade (Merge)

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, sb2001 said:

JT. He’s done. You will see. 

Why should JT be done?   He’s not the first RB to sustain a high ankle sprain.   All things considered, he didn’t even have a terrible year with his injury.   
 

[Jackie Daytona]

On 6/15/2023 at 11:35 AM, PRnum1 said:

I wouldn't do it.  It would be a mistake to re-sign Taylor to a Zeke Elliot type of contract.

 

In fact Giants are balking at re-signing Saquon Barkely.  You could bring in Dalvin Cook for pennies on the dollar on what it would cost to re-sign Taylor.

 

Running backs are a commodity in todays NFL and easily replaceable.

 

Lets not forget that the Chiefs won a superbowl with 7th round Isaiah Pacheco.

 

It is best to take that money and sign a franchise LT, Pass Rushing DE or a WR thats as good as Justin Jefferson or even a shutdown corner.

 

Thats how teams are building superbowl teams, not handing RB's a second large huge contract.

The thing is, you have to HAVE those other players that warrant spending the money on them.  Outside of Taylor.....who at those positions are you giving the bag to?  

[jvan1973]

13 hours ago, sb2001 said:

JT. He’s done. You will see. 

Based on what?

[Moosejawcolt]

5 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Based on what?

The running game back market has been set. The GMs have a dollar figure they are comfortable with and apparently Jacob's, Barkley and I assume Taukor want north of that figure. So play on the tag and we can say goodbye in a year or in Taylor's case 2 years.

[jvan1973]

3 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The running game back market has been set. The GMs have a dollar figure they are comfortable with and apparently Jacob's, Barkley and I assume Taukor want north of that figure. So play on the tag and we can say goodbye in a year or in Taylor's case 2 years.

Ok,  that has nothing to do with the post I was responding to

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The running game back market has been set. The GMs have a dollar figure they are comfortable with and apparently Jacob's, Barkley and I assume Taukor want north of that figure. So play on the tag and we can say goodbye in a year or in Taylor's case 2 years.

Your math does not add up.  
 

This year, 2023, is the 4th and final year of JT’s rookie contract.   So the Colts don’t have tag Taylor this year.  
 

The first tag year, likely roughly the same or similar $10.1m., would be used in 2024.   
The second tag, with a 20 percent bump, would push JT’s 2025 salary to $12.2m. 
 

If JT has two good years, then odds are he’ll be tagged twice, which means three more years….   23, 24, and 25.   
 

If the Colts believe Taylor is a net benefit for Richardson then this projection of three more years of JT is highly likely to happen.   He’d have to get hurt and have very disappointing seasons for this not to unfold.   Just saying….

 

[Dingus McGirt]

On 6/16/2023 at 5:19 AM, NewColtsFan said:

3 years, $40 mill, $13.3 per is a low ball offer for a RB?   
 

On?   What?    Planet?!? 

It would make Taylor the 3rd highest paid RB in the NFL, behind only McCaffrey and Kamara!    And it comes at a time when RB money is drying up. 
 

And if that isn’t enough, you didn’t even mention the key which is always the guaranteed money. 
 

Come on now…..

 

 

And...he's coming off inury.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Dingus McGirt said:

And...he's coming off inury.

His injury wasn't that serious, not like it was an Achilles or an ACL. I say pay the man being he is only 24 years old. 

[DougDew]

On 6/18/2023 at 8:08 PM, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

That's hard to believe but you could be right. A lot will depend on the OL, if it plays like the last two seasons it really won't matter who's behind center. If it builds on from some better play they had late last season I think Minshew/a inexperienced raw AR5 will improve the QB play from last year. Ryan, SamE. and Foles were really, really bad and awful  OL play contributed.

I don't think AR will collapse like a stick man under pressure, but I don't know if the result of those jail break plays will be much more positive.  I'm sure some think he'll juke 2 rushers, stiff arm the third and run for 30 yards every time.  It might happen a few times this season and produce some nice highlights, but the overall W/L record won't be impacted by it that much, IMO.

[Moosejawcolt]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Your math does not add up.  
 

This year, 2023, is the 4th and final year of JT’s rookie contract.   So the Colts don’t have tag Taylor this year.  
 

The first tag year, likely roughly the same or similar $10.1m., would be used in 2024.   
The second tag, with a 20 percent bump, would push JT’s 2025 salary to $12.2m. 
 

If JT has two good years, then odds are he’ll be tagged twice, which means three more years….   23, 24, and 25.   
 

If the Colts believe Taylor is a net benefit for Richardson then this projection of three more years of JT is highly likely to happen.   He’d have to get hurt and have very disappointing seasons for this not to unfold.   Just saying….

 

I meant let him play out this year and tag next year if the Colts choose to. I wouldn't be opposed to letting him play on his last year and letting him walk. It really depends on Richardson's progress. If he is still struggling, they may want Taylor back for one more year after this year  to give Taylor some stability. If Richardson excels, I am all for looking for Taylor's replacement in 2024

[compuls1v3]

On 6/15/2023 at 9:30 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Gayle Sayers is another one. There isn't many because a lot of RB's might go somewhere else for a year or 2. Like Emmitt going to the Cards or Franco going to the Seahawks for 1 year. Those 2 RB's just wanted to keep playing basically.

Or Gore for that matter. 

[Myles]

i wouldn't sign him long terms.   The option to franchise tag him twice is still there once his rookie deal is done.   RB's do not and should not usually get long term huge contracts.  

[NewColtsFan]

13 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I meant let him play out this year and tag next year if the Colts choose to. I wouldn't be opposed to letting him play on his last year and letting him walk. It really depends on Richardson's progress. If he is still struggling, they may want Taylor back for one more year after this year  to give Taylor some stability. If Richardson excels, I am all for looking for Taylor's replacement in 2024

I think the only way your scenario plays out is if Taylor is badly hurt again and his value plummets.   If that happens,  the future becomes very questionable.   
 

But if it doesn’t, and JT enjoys two good to very good years, then I think the Colts tag him in 24 and 25 before figuring things out then.    
 

But that would still leave three more years of Taylor with the Colts.   

[Moosejawcolt]

On 6/21/2023 at 12:17 AM, NewColtsFan said:

I think the only way your scenario plays out is if Taylor is badly hurt again and his value plummets.   If that happens,  the future becomes very questionable.   
 

But if it doesn’t, and JT enjoys two good to very good years, then I think the Colts tag him in 24 and 25 before figuring things out then.    
 

But that would still leave three more years of Taylor with the Colts.   

I think Steichen is going to have a lot of say in the offensive personnel.  I think look at the Eagles and that's the blue print. Taylor is poor at pass blocking and an average pass catcher. He had one great year running the ball and 2 average years. I really don't get the need to sign him long term. He hasn't proved anything as of yet. 

[NewColtsFan]

19 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think Steichen is going to have a lot of say in the offensive personnel.  I think look at the Eagles and that's the blue print. Taylor is poor at pass blocking and an average pass catcher. He had one great year running the ball and 2 average years. I really don't get the need to sign him long term. He hasn't proved anything as of yet. 

I don’t know why, but you think Taylor’s rookie year is “average.”   I’m operating from memory but I believe JT’s rookie year was at least 1100 yards, might’ve been close to 1200.   There’s nothing average about that.   
 

Plus, you seem to think a decision made by Philly AFTER Steichen left reflects Steichen’s opinion.  Maybe, it’s possible, but I wouldn’t bet on it.   Plus he’s already on record as saying JT should be a big asset to AR.   SO again, if JT gets hurt again, you may get your wish.   But if not, I think it’s more likely he remains a Colt. 
 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t know why, but you think Taylor’s rookie year is “average.”   I’m operating from memory but I believe JT’s rookie year was at least 1100 yards, might’ve been close to 1200.   There’s nothing average about that.   
 

Plus, you seem to think a decision made by Philly AFTER Steichen left reflects Steichen’s opinion.  Maybe, it’s possible, but I wouldn’t bet on it.   Plus he’s already on record as saying JT should be a big asset to AR.   SO again, if JT gets hurt again, you may get your wish.   But if not, I think it’s more likely he remains a Colt. 
 

You are chatting with a guy that will find anyway to bash Nelson, Leonard, and Taylor. It has been his calling card for 2 years now. I have nothing against Moose personally - he may be a hell of a guy to have a beer with, but he is like a broken record when it comes to those guys. 

[Moosejawcolt]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t know why, but you think Taylor’s rookie year is “average.”   I’m operating from memory but I believe JT’s rookie year was at least 1100 yards, might’ve been close to 1200.   There’s nothing average about that.   
 

Plus, you seem to think a decision made by Philly AFTER Steichen left reflects Steichen’s opinion.  Maybe, it’s possible, but I wouldn’t bet on it.   Plus he’s already on record as saying JT should be a big asset to AR.   SO again, if JT gets hurt again, you may get your wish.   But if not, I think it’s more likely he remains a Colt. 
 

I consider the whole picture and not just his ability to run the ball. I have no issue in paying a  weapon in the back field and not a one tick poney. In today's NFL it is paramount that your rb has the ability to run block and pass catch or he is not worth signing long term.  

[jvan1973]

4 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I consider the whole picture and not just his ability to run the ball. I have no issue in paying a  weapon in the back field and not a one tick poney. In today's NFL it is paramount that your rb has the ability to run block and pass catch or he is not worth signing long term.  

JT is a fine receiver.   He hasn't been given many opportunities 

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I consider the whole picture and not just his ability to run the ball. I have no issue in paying a  weapon in the back field and not a one tick poney. In today's NFL it is paramount that your rb has the ability to run block and pass catch or he is not worth signing long term.  

I don’t know where you got that run blocking is all that important?  Pass catching is clearly important.   But guys like McCaffrey , Kimara,  Henry, Jones, Chubb, Barkley, Jacob’s and whoever else makes $10m+ aren’t earning their money for their RUN blocking. 

 

Perhaps did you mean PASS blocking, because otherwise I think your argument just collapsed. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

These running backs are in no win situations. Because they can ask for a trade but trend are just not paying RB a ton. Colts need to not worry about price or years. Just make sure it is front loaded and can get out of it easily after a couple years.

[Peter Nova]

11 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

These running backs are in no win situations. Because they can ask for a trade but trend are just not paying RB a ton. Colts need to not worry about price or years. Just make sure it is front loaded and can get out of it easily after a couple years.

 

The odds are against Taylor finishing a 4 year contract, so if the FO can do as you say, some mathematical maneuvering that would be great. Taylor's has earned a new contract. 

[NewColtsFan]

34 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

These running backs are in no win situations. Because they can ask for a trade but trend are just not paying RB a ton. Colts need to not worry about price or years. Just make sure it is front loaded and can get out of it easily after a couple years.

You completely lost me at….   “The Colts need to not worry about price and years.”

 

I think the chances of that are close to 0.0, and that maybe too high.   

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You completely lost me at….   “The Colts need to not worry about price and years.”

 

I think the chances of that are close to 0.0, and that maybe too high.   

A contract can be constructed so say after  two years if that player is falling off a cliff you can cut them or trade them with minimal dead cap. A lot of contracts are written up this way. So if colts were smart they would pay him close to what he wants but make sure they can get out of the contract after a couple years. Especially with running backs. It’s all in the small details. They would be smart to make it long enough so it expires or can get out of it  when richardsons  rookie deal is up and he needs paid. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

A contract can be constructed so say after  two years if that player is falling off a cliff you can cut them or trade them with minimal dead cap. A lot of contracts are written up this way. So if colts were smart they would pay him close to what he wants but make sure they can get out of the contract after a couple years. Especially with running backs. It’s all in the small details. They would be smart to make it long enough so it expires or can get out of it  when richardsons  rookie deal is up and he needs paid. 

Contracts are important to everyone.   The team,  the player, the agent, and all the other 31 teams and their players.   Because once you establish a precedent for one player it complicates things for everyone else in the NFL.   “Hey, you made an exception for THIS guy why can’t you do it for THAT guy?”

 

So when you write just give JT what he wants in some front loaded deal, just make sure you can get out later without much of a financial hit, that’s much easier said than done.   It rarely happens except in a small handful of exceptions (typically quarterbacks) and none of them are with a RB where money for the position is drying up.   
 

Im sure the Colts will make a competitive offer.   I’m just not sure JT and his agent will accept it.   And if not, the Colts can still tag him twice in 24 and 25.   Odds are the two sides will find a compromise.   But I wouldn’t rule this getting difficult for both sides and the Colts having to use the tag.  It’s not ideal,  but this is the world the NFL has created and it’s hard to find a clear path.  
 

The Colts have a very good reputation for getting fair deals done.  Have confidence the Colts will handle this appropriately.  JT is an important part of the team, he is valued.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

14 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Contracts are important to everyone.   The team,  the player, the agent, and all the other 31 teams and their players.   Because once you establish a precedent for one player it complicates things for everyone else in the NFL.   “Hey, you made an exception for THIS guy why can’t you do it for THAT guy?”

 

So when you write just give JT what he wants in some front loaded deal, just make sure you can get out later without much of a financial hit, that’s much easier said than done.   It rarely happens except in a small handful of exceptions (typically quarterbacks) and none of them are with a RB where money for the position is drying up.   
 

Im sure the Colts will make a competitive offer.   I’m just not sure JT and his agent will accept it.   And if not, the Colts can still tag him twice in 24 and 25.   Odds are the two sides will find a compromise.   But I wouldn’t rule this getting difficult for both sides and the Colts having to use the tag.  It’s not ideal,  but this is the world the NFL has created and it’s hard to find a clear path.  
 

The Colts have a very good reputation for getting fair deals done.  Have confidence the Colts will handle this appropriately.  JT is an important part of the team, he is valued.  

Stop taking  everything so litterly. All I meant is don’t be cheap and pay him what he deserves.  Just make sure it is structured correctly. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Stop taking  everything so litterly. All I meant is don’t be cheap and pay him what he deserves.  Just make sure it is structured correctly. 

The Colts do not have a reputation of being cheap.   The problem is, right now in the NFL, no one knows what Taylor is worth.   Seriously, nobody knows.

 

Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder,  value of a top running back is in the eye of the beholder.  The agent and RB want the type of money that used to be paid out to top RBs in the past 3-5 years.  As you know, teams are now reluctant to pay that kind of money to the position.  So paying Taylor what he’s worth is a big unknown.   A point I’ve been trying to emphasize in multiple posts now.   JT’s situation is much harder to solve than you have suggested.   
 

[jvan1973]

17 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

A contract can be constructed so say after  two years if that player is falling off a cliff you can cut them or trade them with minimal dead cap. A lot of contracts are written up this way. So if colts were smart they would pay him close to what he wants but make sure they can get out of the contract after a couple years. Especially with running backs. It’s all in the small details. They would be smart to make it long enough so it expires or can get out of it  when richardsons  rookie deal is up and he needs paid. 

Richardson deal will be for 5 years.   They aren't going to give JT a 5 year extension. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Richardson deal will be for 5 years.   They aren't going to give JT a 5 year extension. 

I know. My point was try and make it so you can get out of JT contract around the time Richardson needs a new contract. If Richardson  is as good as we hope expect a extension after year 3. 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 6/23/2023 at 2:38 PM, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t know where you got that run blocking is all that important?  Pass catching is clearly important.   But guys like McCaffrey , Kimara,  Henry, Jones, Chubb, Barkley, Jacob’s and whoever else makes $10m+ aren’t earning their money for their RUN blocking. 

 

Perhaps did you mean PASS blocking, because otherwise I think your argument just collapsed. 

yes u right..pass blocking

[Myles]

On 6/24/2023 at 12:18 PM, jvan1973 said:

Richardson deal will be for 5 years.   They aren't going to give JT a 5 year extension. 

And they shouldn't.  After his rookie deal they could franchise him 2 years and then see what happens.  In todays NFL, RB's are not paid huge long term contracts and if one is signed it is many times regretted by the team.  Look at a few of the highest paid RB's recently:

Christian McCaffrey: Traded

Ezekiel Elliott: Released

Melvin Gordon: Released

Dalvin Cook: Potential trade candidate

Derrick Henry: Potential trade candidate

[BlackTiger]

If I were the team I would only want to offer a team friendly deal now 

 

If hes willing to play out next year he could bet on himself and make more money

 

I think both sides should be patient with this, hes making enough now to play out the year at least

[jvan1973]

29 minutes ago, Myles said:

And they shouldn't.  After his rookie deal they could franchise him 2 years and then see what happens.  In todays NFL, RB's are not paid huge long term contracts and if one is signed it is many times regretted by the team.  Look at a few of the highest paid RB's recently:

Christian McCaffrey: Traded

Ezekiel Elliott: Released

Melvin Gordon: Released

Dalvin Cook: Potential trade candidate

Derrick Henry: Potential trade candidate

Cook was cut by the Vikings

Henry isn't going anywhere. 

 

I'm not advocating giving JT a huge contract.   But I could see a contract like Derrick Henry signed.  Irsay like to pay his playmakers and JT was a Ballard guy from the beginning.   I bet he signs before the start of next season

[Myles]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Cook was cut by the Vikings

Henry isn't going anywhere. 

 

I'm not advocating giving JT a huge contract.   But I could see a contract like Derrick Henry signed.  Irsay like to pay his playmakers and JT was a Ballard guy from the beginning.   I bet he signs before the start of next season

That may happen but I would prefer to franchise him.  Of course it depends on what kind of year he has this season.  

If they franchise him for 2 years, he would be going into year 7 after that.  RB's have the shortest careers of all football players. 

[jvan1973]

42 minutes ago, Myles said:

That may happen but I would prefer to franchise him.  Of course it depends on what kind of year he has this season.  

If they franchise him for 2 years, he would be going into year 7 after that.  RB's have the shortest careers of all football players. 

That's a misleading stat..  A ton of ruining backs are drafted every year.   Many become camp fodder or special teams players.   Running backs drafted in the first 2 rounds have a much better long term success 

[ShuteAt168]

In today’s NFL, as many other posters have said, you don’t want to set the market at RB, which is why I have no doubt Ballard will. He overvalues the wrong positions and loves to opine on taking care of “my guys.” Add in that JT is, by all accounts, a great guy and it’s the perfect storm of a player Ballard will overpay. 

[Myles]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

That's a misleading stat..  A ton of ruining backs are drafted every year.   Many become camp fodder or special teams players.   Running backs drafted in the first 2 rounds have a much better long term success 

I understand it may be skewed, but we all know RB's typically do not hold up and have long productive careers.  I'd be good with letting Taylor go in 3 years (including 2 franchise tags if he is performing well).

[GoColts8818]

I’d go the franchise tag route myself for a year or two and then see where you are at with him and where the team is.  If Richardson isn’t working then it might be time to blow it all up and start over.  If Richardson is working and JT is producing then maybe you look at a shorter contract but bigger money.  

[ADnum1]

There's no guarantee he would even play on the franchise tag.

 

Lots of players threaten to sit out and try to force a trade.  There is no security in a 1 year Tag in case of injury.

 

I would offer him a Hines like contract and see if he takes it.  Something like 6-7m per year for 4 years and an option to get out in 2 years.

[TimetobringDfence!]

Signing JT to an over market contract will be Ballard's undoing. We already have players overpaid at lower valued positions  one more will really hurt the team overall. I believe in paying your players, but we have done it at G, Nickle CB, OL positions that are some of the lowest market salaries. We can't develop sustainable competitive roster with this approach.

[MB-ColtsFan]

45 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Signing JT to an over market contract will be Ballard's undoing. We already have players overpaid at lower valued positions  one more will really hurt the team overall. I believe in paying your players, but we have done it at G, Nickle CB, OL positions that are some of the lowest market salaries. We can't develop sustainable competitive roster with this approach.

I think the point being made here is that the market for RB is being reset.  What is the new market?  Those currently looking for contracts will determine that.

 

What do you consider an overpay?