Jonathan Taylor comments on his contract/Request trade (Merge)

[2006Coltsbestever]

ESPN and sports talk radio is posing the question, were the Giants right at not offering Barkley a long term deal? That isn't even the problem and shouldn't even be the question unless Barkley wanted like a 5 year deal. Barkley just turned 26 years old, offering him a 3 year deal for 14 Million a year = 42 million isn't a long term deal and that would have took him through his peak prime years. I seriously doubt Barkley would have turned that down especially if he was guaranteed half that money = 21 Mill.

 

It is smart to go RB by committee but only if you have a top 10 QB in the league, Jones is not a top 10 QB in the league. I am not even sure he is top 15. Giants are a run first offense and Barkley is their best player, I hope he sits out all year to prove a point. I say that because if sits out the Giants will be lucky to win 7 games.

 

Colts are also a run first offense, offering JT a 3 year deal for 14 million a year = 42 with half that guaranteed = (21 Mill) should be done if JT goes for it. I am not sure why he would not. JT is only 24 years old and 3 years isn't a long term deal on any level when a RB is 26 years old or younger.

[runthepost]

2 hours ago, cjrulli said:

 

Both the Raiders and Giants attempted to resign Jacobs and Barkly. For less than they wanted but you make it sound like the market is dictating no contracts to RBs. It's a bit different IMO. 

 

All reports are the deals were approximately ~10-12 million per year with ~20-22 million GTD. If Ballard and Taylor can get a deal signed in the 11-13.5 million range APY for 3 years, 19-25m GTD I think that would be fair with what the market is dictating and would put him in line with backs like Henry and Chubb. on APY.

 

Taylor is younger than Jacobs and Barkley and a key playmaker on this team. I think he deserves a better deal than them and the Colts are equipped to afford it with the team being this young. 

 

I doubt we will see anymore 16 million APY that Christan Mcaffrey got in 2020 and I do not think we should go that high, but the team needs to be fair. 

Only way a RB gets a deal like CMC is if they rush for 1000+ yards and have over 1000 receiving yards as well.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, runthepost said:

Only way a RB gets a deal like CMC is if they rush for 1000+ yards and have over 1000 receiving yards as well.

He makes 16 Mill a year. Not sure that Barkley or Taylor have ever said they wanted 16 Mill. Barkley just didn't want to be franchised tagged at 10 Mill, I don't blame him. Every team is different. We are talking about the Giants, if it was a team like the Chiefs, Eagles, Bengals, Bills, or Jets now with Aaron for example, they can all go RB by committee with no problem because those teams have a top 5 QB. They wouldn't have to pay a top RB. Reason why Edge was expendable after 2005 and we could go RB by committee with Rhodes and Addai is because Peyton was the best QB in the league.

[Superman]

6 hours ago, Nickster said:

If you don’t watch enough football to realize that there are different running styles I don’t have the motivation to explain in to you from the ground up, but suffice it to say there are lots of plays that start without square shoulders, including quite famously for  Colts fans the outside zone stretch play James ran so famously.  They quit trying this type of play as much with Taylor when he kept running into the backs of his blockers.

 

I couldn’t find the run charts that we saw awhile back but I remember discussing with another poster that they seemed to be using Taylor wrong by running him sideways then they stopped doing it as much.  There was a clear adjustment on how he was used.  And I’m pretty sure in one of these threads there is a simple run tracker that showed that visually.  Can’t find it.  Yeah u don’t have to believe it but like many other things you’re u are seeing the evidence.  Recent article said Taylor was not creative and he isn’t.  He’s mediocre around the LOs and HOF at the 2nd and 3rd levels and almost untouchable in the open field.

 

he’s had high percentages of stuffed runs his whole career including thw all pro year.

 

not much controversy about JTs skill set I guess except for this board.

 

I'm not disputing about his running style, though. He's not Reggie Bush, we agree there. Maybe I don't agree with you about his skill set, specifically as a receiver, but that's a whole different conversation. (I don't think this OL ever ran the stretch play very well; I also don't think you need that type of play to have an effective rushing attack, and 2021 is Exhibit A.)

 

What I'm questioning is his effectiveness. You said he's not effective going sideways, and my argument is I think every back drops in effectiveness when they get turned perpendicular by the defense, not based on the design of the play. The gameplan for Derrick Henry is to turn him sideways and gang tackle. I don't think that JT's drop off is more significant than most other backs, but I thought you were saying you have charting that says otherwise. Maybe you were talking about his stuff rate? I think that's an OL stat more than a RB stat; when you have a RB getting a ton of yards after contact, especially behind the LOS, that's another story. I think JT's YAC is pretty good, but probably skewed by a few long runs.

 

But to move the conversation forward, based on the bolded, is that level of uniqueness worthy of a second contract? I don't think any team should be committing huge money to the RB position, so I'm not talking about Christian McCaffrey money. But if we did three more years at $13m/year, would you think that JT's HOF+ ability at the 2nd level and beyond is worth it?

[NewColtsFan]

15 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I meant they agree on the market in terms of what they worth.  Sure they wanted to resign them on their terms and were quite happy to let them play on the franchise.  They may have offered say 13 at 2 years and the players  probably wanted 15 at 3 years. Just speculating but  I bet both teams wanted two years probably 2 or 3 million below what the player wanted.  If that is true them they have set the market for the Colts in what they would offer Taylor. Honestly, I don't even know why the Colts r discussing contract terms with him

It appears your speculative numbers weren’t even close.    2/13?   3/15?

 

It’s being reported the numbers were in the range of 11-13 per year.   And were only about 1-2 million per year apart.   Each case is unique.   
 

You keep writing the market is being set, and that Ballard has to follow these numbers.   Neither is true.  The market is not set and Ballard is free to make the best deal he can with JT, which might eventually be a franchise tag, but it might also be a multi-year deal.   Ballard is not fenced in.   

[Superman]

3 hours ago, cjrulli said:

This isn't a coincidentally timed Tweet by Irsay. He knows JT is a fan favorite and knows the Colts have an opportunity for some positive PR with all the noise around the league from yesterday. 

 

Projecting JT contract. 

11-13.5 APY

3 years 

20-24 GTD. 

 

 

I mean, Irsay doesn't control when the guy's birthday falls...

 

I know he sometimes plays games with his tweets, but I don't think that's what's going on here. JMO

[Superman]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Henry has a point, so does Taylor with their tweets. They are outliers at the RB position is why. Those 2 and guys like McCaffrey, Barkley are tough to find that are that great. If Barkley decides to sit out, you can kiss the Giants season good bye imo. Giants are making a huge mistake considering Barkley's age.

 

"Elliott has a point, so does Cook. They are outliers at the RB position."

 

Could have made the same argument for those guys, and neither of them played out their contract.

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I mean, Irsay doesn't control when the guy's birthday falls...

 

 

Are you sure about that??

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Are you sure about that??

 

Now you got me wondering...

[cjwhiskers]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Are you sure about that??

 

Insert obligatory meme of that "are you sure about that?" dude. 

 

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I mean, Irsay doesn't control when the guy's birthday falls...

 

I know he sometimes plays games with his tweets, but I don't think that's what's going on here. JMO

 

Yes, I know he doesn't control Vick's birthday lol but the emphasis he put on it just make me feel he's saying, "The Colts still value the RB position". 

 

[jvan1973]

11 minutes ago, cjrulli said:

 

Insert obligatory meme of that "are you sure about that?" dude. 

 

 

Yes, I know he doesn't control Vick's birthday lol but the emphasis he put on it just make me feel he's saying, "The Colts still value the RB position". 

 

[jvan1973]

16 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

How bout this  Derrick. If u r a man who weighs 230 and runs 4.4, maybe u should be switching positions early in your career? I imagine he would have been a great edge and/or linebacker if he would have focused on that postion.

When exactly would he have changed positions?

[csmopar]

17 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

How bout this  Derrick. If u r a man who weighs 230 and runs 4.4, maybe u should be switching positions early in your career? I imagine he would have been a great edge and/or linebacker if he would have focused on that postion.

[DougDew]

On 7/14/2023 at 9:15 PM, NewColtsFan said:

That’s the view of one exec.   One.   That’s one more than none.  Let’s not pretend this is the consensus viewpoint. 

It's an article about one exec's view.  Not a survey of 31 teams.  There could be a lot of execs with that same opinion.  Which is an opinion @Nickster and I have had for at least two seasons.

 

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

I'm not disputing about his running style, though. He's not Reggie Bush, we agree there. Maybe I don't agree with you about his skill set, specifically as a receiver, but that's a whole different conversation. (I don't think this OL ever ran the stretch play very well; I also don't think you need that type of play to have an effective rushing attack, and 2021 is Exhibit A.)

Well his rookie year they wanted to do it with Rivers because of his GOAT ball skills d Mack was good at it.

 

So I disagree that they didn’t do it well tepidly.  
 

Taylor has a high percentage of stuffed runs.  That’s in next gen.
 

I wouldn’t give any back a significant 2nd contract.

[Superman]

17 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

How bout this  Derrick. If u r a man who weighs 230 and runs 4.4, maybe u should be switching positions early in your career? I imagine he would have been a great edge and/or linebacker if he would have focused on that postion.

 

This is already happening, and is probably already affecting the RB position. Someone like Hassan Reddick -- 6'1", 230 pounds, who played RB his freshman year in college -- might have switched positions intentionally. And I think that will continue to happen, further watering down the position over time.

 

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

I wouldn’t give any back a significant 2nd contract.

 

That's a strong position, but very defensible from a cap management / roster management standpoint.

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, Nickster said:

If you don’t watch enough football to realize that there are different running styles I don’t have the motivation to explain in to you from the ground up, but suffice it to say there are lots of plays that start without square shoulders, including quite famously for  Colts fans the outside zone stretch play James ran so famously.  They quit trying this type of play as much with Taylor when he kept running into the backs of his blockers.

 

I couldn’t find the run charts that we saw awhile back but I remember discussing with another poster that they seemed to be using Taylor wrong by running him sideways then they stopped doing it as much.  There was a clear adjustment on how he was used.  And I’m pretty sure in one of these threads there is a simple run tracker that showed that visually.  Can’t find it.  Yeah u don’t have to believe it but like many other things you’re u are seeing the evidence.  Recent article said Taylor was not creative and he isn’t.  He’s mediocre around the LOs and HOF at the 2nd and 3rd levels and almost untouchable in the open field.

 

he’s had high percentages of stuffed runs his whole career including thw all pro year.

 

not much controversy about JTs skill set I guess except for this board.

The RBs who can create more on their own have what's called "lateral explosion".  Plant the outside foot and get about a 90 degrees change of direction with one foot plant without losing much quickness or balance.  JT sort of pitter patters and jump cuts to go sideways while not really changing direction very abruptly.

[DougDew]

21 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The market has spoken. Now if Ballard were to sign Taylor to a deal, it would go against what the rest of the NFL is doing. I stated that it would be a mistake to give another deal to Tayor, and apparently, the Raiders and Giants agree. If Ballard extends Taylor's contract, I will be so done with him as a GM and this  is from someone who said I would give him a 2nd chance now that he has his qb.

It wouldn't be very bright to sign JT to a long term deal before we see how he fares in SS's offense.

 

There needs to be at least one season to see if he can succeed, and then judge his value.  Ballard would sort of be negotiating from an uninformed position if he does something now.

[Nickster]

4 hours ago, cjrulli said:

This isn't a coincidentally timed Tweet by Irsay. He knows JT is a fan favorite and knows the Colts have an opportunity for some positive PR with all the noise around the league from yesterday. 

 

Projecting JT contract. 

11-13.5 APY

3 years 

20-24 GTD. 

 

That’s impressive.  A rocket scientist 

[Nickster]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This is already happening, and is probably already affecting the RB position. Someone like Hassan Reddick -- 6'1", 230 pounds, who played RB his freshman year in college -- might have switched positions intentionally. And I think that will continue to happen, further watering down the position over time.

 

 

That's a strong position, but very defensible from a cap management / roster management standpoint.

I mean Mcaffrey you want to pay because of the receiving skills but how’s that contract working out?

 

man paying RB money is at the least just not necessary and possibly causal in some loose way wit allocation to positions with bigger drop offs from stars to Jags.

[Nickster]

21 hours ago, DougDew said:

The RBs who can create more on their own have what's called "lateral explosion".  Plant the outside foot and get about a 90 degrees change of direction with one foot plant without losing much quickness or balance.  JT sort of pitter patters and jump cuts to go sideways while not really changing direction very abruptly.

He’s good in the open field, devastating running right at defenders and making quick sharp downhill cuts, but behind the lol that lateral explosion isn’t there.  

Edited July 19, 2023 by Superman
mod edit

[jvan1973]

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This is already happening, and is probably already affecting the RB position. Someone like Hassan Reddick -- 6'1", 230 pounds, who played RB his freshman year in college -- might have switched positions intentionally. And I think that will continue to happen, further watering down the position over time.

 

 

That's a strong position, but very defensible from a cap management / roster management standpoint.

Reddick was also a walk on at temple.  Not the number 1 recruit in the country like Henry

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I mean Mcaffrey you want to pay because of the receiving skills but how’s that contract working out?

 

man paying RB money is at the least just not necessary and possibly causal in some loose way wit allocation to positions with bigger drop offs from stars to Jags.

 

The McCaffrey situation is kind of an anomaly after the trade. The Panthers got back a handful of decent picks, and the Niners are getting him on a prorated contract. But he's been injured a lot.

 

I think it is causal. Maybe not directly, because teams can be flexible with cap space as they move on. But eventually the premium you're paying to the RB is costing you in another area.

 

I'd be okay with tagging a RB two years in a row, and by extension I'd be okay with a three year deal that basically buys out the tag years. But it makes sense to treat the position differently, and yeah that will probably ruffle some feathers, but that's the business.

[Solid84]

I’d be fine paying JT up to CMC money, but it would have to be heavy on incentives and less so on guarantees. Also I’d want an out after 2-3 years. 
 

I guess that could come off as thankless, especially to a fan favorite, but that’s just the RB position - it’s nothing against JT the person. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

It's an article about one exec's view.  Not a survey of 31 teams.  There could be a lot of execs with that same opinion.  Which is an opinion @Nickster and I have had for at least two seasons.

 

Im sorry, but no.   It is NOT an article about the view of one Exec.   Not even close.   
 

More than 80 Execs, coaches,  scouts and players were interviewed about all the profiles.   This was one quote — one.    The “article” was about Taylor.    Not about the execs VIEW of Taylor.    There was much more to write up.   It was 4-5 paragraphs total.   I wouldn’t even think if it as an article.   It was the Taylor portion about the top-10 running backs.   The article was about the best running backs.   
 

Im sorry, but you have this habit of characterizing articles that you have not read.   This is not the first time this has happened.   
 

By the way…. If you’re trying to pat  yourself on the back because you and Nick have had the same view of Taylor for two years, then I have bad news for you.   This series of positional review articles by ESPN is now in its fourth year.   And last years review of the 21 season (the season you just said you and Nick have concerns about) last years review ranked Jonathan Taylor first.   FIRST OVERALL.   Yet you say you had concerns about JT after his 1800+ yard 2021 season when the Colts had a bad passing game so defenses could key in JT.    Perhaps your concerns are not as valid as you believe….

[Moosejawcolt]

6 hours ago, Nickster said:

I mean Mcaffrey you want to pay because of the receiving skills but how’s that contract working out?

 

man paying RB money is at the least just not necessary and possibly causal in some loose way wit allocation to positions with bigger drop offs from stars to Jags.

U take away the injuries snf McAffery is on of the very few backs worthy of a 2nd contract. He is not just a runner. He is an all around rb and a weapon. Shanahan regularly disposes of  his back but Lynch (cough, cough) traded for him. That shows u how much he values him as a weapon and not just a rb. Taylor is not on McAfferey's level. Years ago there value may have been reversed but not in today's game. That's why the Chargers gave Ekler a little more cash. Td machine and a great pass catcher.  Taylor as great as he is woule be easily replaceable if Richardson becomes what we all hope he can and guys like Peirce and Woods hit their strides.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U take away the injuries snf McAffery is on of the very few backs worthy of a 2nd contract. He is not just a runner. He is an all around rb and a weapon. Shanahan regularly disposes of  his back but Lynch (cough, cough) traded for him. That shows u how much he values him as a weapon and not just a rb. Taylor is not on McAfferey's level. Years ago there value may have been reversed but not in today's game. That's why the Chargers gave Ekler a little more cash. Td machine and a great pass catcher.  Taylor as great as he is woule be easily replaceable if Richardson becomes what we all hope he can and guys like Peirce and Woods hit their strides.

If you want to make an argument that Taylor isn’t worth the money he wants,  that’s an argument worth having.   It’s fair.  
 

But if you remove salaries, and only consider ability, I can’t imagine anyone thinking the Colts would be better without Taylor than with.   And I can’t imagine anyone thinking Taylor is easily replaceable.   Those last two are your words.   I find that astounding. 
 

I don’t believe the Colts want AR to be the primary running threat.  He’d be a complimentary threat, ideally next to Taylor.   
 

If I’ve misunderstood you, feel free to clarify.  

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Jesus dude.  That doesn’t mean he’s a creative back.  Earl Campbell was great and he ran straight into people.  Not creative.

Taylor is NOT Earl Campbell.  Far from it.  Someone in this thread posted Taylor’s 2021 best runs from his 1800 yard season.   He doesn’t look anything like Earl Campbell.  Not at all.  
 

Feel free to watch it.  I did.   There’s plenty of creativity for all to see if you’re willing to look. 

[GoColts8818]

9 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I’d be fine paying JT up to CMC money, but it would have to be heavy on incentives and less so on guarantees. Also I’d want an out after 2-3 years. 
 

I guess that could come off as thankless, especially to a fan favorite, but that’s just the RB position - it’s nothing against JT the person. 

I mean I won’t care what the Colts pay him if they pay him because it’s not my money so I don’t have to pay it.  

[AKB]

I feel like running backs should be paid more, on shorter-term deals due to the wear and tear on most running backs. (Marlon Mack)

 

edit - also, even if we do overpay taylor a little, does it really matter? Our QB is on a rookie deal, and we have the 5th in cap space right now, and a roster that to me; looks like it is about to flip over. 

 

I think Leonard is done. My guess is he probably gets cut when its cap favorable. I saw a workout video of him today and he looks so slow. (could be that he was absolutely exhausted during the workout - who knows. but he looked very slow)

 

Clip Below

 

 

 

 

(relevant in terms of contract/cap and how it relates to signing/extending Taylor)

[csmopar]

Well driving into work this morning and NFL on Sirius was talking about how there’s a groups of the top running backs all discussing possibly sitting out en masse this season as a protest . Now they did hedge that with the standard “per a source close to an agent for one of the RBs speaking out”

[DougDew]

15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

(edited)

Not sure who you are arguing with or what about. 

 

Me, Nick, and the Exec are talking about JTs ability to create on his own.  Now you're talking about top 10 voting, and before that you were talking about stats. 

 

My full opinion of JT:  He's got elite break away home run speed.  Above average power (he breaks arm tackles easily but is not really a pile mover). Average to below average elusiveness (juke's defenders in a phone booth creating arm tackle attempts, but does not have lateral explosion to change direction quickly).  Probably still has Average to below average vision (although the lack of running to the open spot might be due to inability to change direction abruptly).  Average pass catcher (needs more attempts though) Below average Pass Blocker.

 

JMO, but I do not think he is the complete RB like Barkley, Jacobs, and maybe Pollard are.  But he can score more long TDs then they can, which is a special thing for a RB.  And he seems like a sincerely good guy.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Superman
mod edit

[csmopar]

Thing is this, it all depends on his health and how he does this season. He gets hurt again, he’s likely looking for a new team as a FA or best case playing under the tag

[DougDew]

35 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Well driving into work this morning and NFL on Sirius was talking about how there’s a groups of the top running backs all discussing possibly sitting out en masse this season as a protest . Now they did hedge that with the standard “per a source close to an agent for one of the RBs speaking out”

Barkley, Jacobs, and Pollard are supposedly thinking about it.  There is some sort of group forming to help stabilize the value of the position.  Derick Henry was quoted as saying on social media.."well why not just get rid of the RB position all together"

 

Hint for you DH, they are getting rid of the position, but not the skill.  Your competitors are now playing QB...LOL....and they will get the portion of the salary cap allocated to RBs added to their compensation.  DH, you'd make a great pusher in the Philly Sneak play though, LOL. 

 

The NFL one day might think about the wisdom of concentrating 66% of the offensive skill into one athlete under C for the cheap superhero promotional value that some fans like, rather than the wisdom of diversifying risk by spreading different skills out amongst different players.

[Tsarquise]

38 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Well driving into work this morning and NFL on Sirius was talking about how there’s a groups of the top running backs all discussing possibly sitting out en masse this season as a protest . Now they did hedge that with the standard “per a source close to an agent for one of the RBs speaking out”

If they do this and the backups light it up, that wouldn't be good for them lol. They might just prove everyone's point about how expendable RBs are. 

[DougDew]

With the drafting of Anthony Richardson, the Colts have backhandedly lowered JTs value to the team.  How many running plays can an NFL team call?

 

JT should play out the season and sign with JAX, where they have a QB that uses passing skills, which thereby requires another player to have the running skills.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I would prefer RB by committee, as long as the RB's are good but in order to do that we need a top 10 QB in the league to be a scary threat. Nobody knows if AR will reach that? He may or may not. With the way our team is built we need Taylor and need Taylor to play like he did in 2021 or close to it to contend, JMO. It is not a RB's league I understand that but if your QB isn't top 10, having a dominant RB really helps. 

 

These QB's can get away with RB by committee = Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Hurts, Rodgers - still, Lawrence, Herbert, Jackson, Watson if healthy, maybe Dak and that is about it. I just named 10. The other QB's in the league pretty much need a dominant RB to take a lot of the load off. I seriously have my doubts about the Vikings this year for example because Cook is no longer there. I think Cousins is good at times but without Cook there, it will be interesting. Having Jefferson at WR may keep that team above .500. I am almost sure if Barkley sits out that Jones won't have near the year he had last year and the Giants will miss the playoffs. The 49ers will stay afloat because of McCaffrey as long as their QB play is above average.

[jvan1973]

13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

With the drafting of Anthony Richardson, the Colts have backhandedly lowered JTs value to the team.  How many running plays can an NFL team call?

 

JT should play out the season and sign with JAX, where they have a QB that uses passing skills, which thereby requires another player to have the running skills.

Hurts led the league in qb rushing attempts with 165.  Miles Sanders still had 259 attempts.   

[2006Coltsbestever]

19 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Hurts led the league in qb rushing attempts with 165.  Miles Sanders still had 259 attempts.   

Yep I was about to post, I could see AR having 100 Rushing attempts and JT still having 300. I don't think AR running a lot will have much affect on JT's impact. If anything our run game could become pretty lethal with those 2 and open up the pass.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yep I was about to post, I could see AR having 100 Rushing attempts and JT still having 300. I don't think AR running a lot will have much affect on JT's impact. If anything our run game could become pretty lethal with those 2 and open up the pass.

It should. With those two we should see a lot of wide open tight ends and WR.