Jonathan Taylor comments on his contract/Request trade (Merge)

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

If we’re name dropping running backs for consideration….   I’ll drop in two….

 

OJ Simpson and Marcus Allen. 

 Before or after he bought a Bronco

[CR91]

3 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Watch some Earl Cambell videos.  He was AD before AD

 

Size and power yes, but not speed. Peterson was just an athletic freak of nature.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Size and power yes, but not speed. Peterson was just an athletic freak of nature.

Earl's speed was deceiving. He once had an 81 yard TD run in a game and looked a sprinter. I will say this, I would probably put Peterson at #6 after looking at everything. I still stick with my top 5 in Brown, Emmitt, Walter, Barry, and Dick. Peterson and Dick were beautiful Runners to watch when they got in the open field.

 

Another name nobody has mentioned is Terrell Davis, short career is why but Elway never won a SB until he got to Denver. He also was one of the few that had a 2000 yard rushing season.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

 Before or after he bought a Bronco

Ouch 

[CR91]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Earl's speed was deceiving. He once had an 81 yard TD run in a game and looked a sprinter. I will say this, I would probably put Peterson at #6 after looking at everything. I still stick with my top 5 in Brown, Emmitt, Walter, Barry, and Dick. Peterson and Dick were beautiful Runners to watch when they got in the open field.

 

Another name nobody has mentioned is Terrell Davis, short career is why but Elway never won a SB until he got to Denver. He also was one of the few that had a 2000 yard rushing season.

 

It's hard to separate Davis with shanahan run scheme. So many backs had success running that scheme. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

 Before or after he bought a Bronco

Well, OJ always was a slashing type of runner!    (What?   Too soon?!?).    

[John Hammonds]

I'm amused that we've spent 5 pages talking about the inevitibility of releasing Taylor, and who would be the best to replace him with.  I'm betting that we sign him to a reasonable deal that keeps him him for 3 years without breaking the budget.  And that it won't be a long, hard negotiation.

[csmopar]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Well, OJ always was a slashing type of runner!    (What?   Too soon?!?).    

[ShuteAt168]

20 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

My top 5 RB's of all-time are:

 

1. Jim Brown - He just set the tone for every RB/FB period. He dominated every season he played in.

 

2. Emmitt Smith

 

3. Walter Payton - he and Emmitt are like clones. He could do it all as well.

 

4. Barry Sanders

 

5. Eric Dickerson - he couldn't pass catch very well either but was a top 5 Runner of all-time IMO.

This is a good list. Just for discussion because I love old RBs and not for argument, I don’t see Sweetness and E Smith like clones at all. In terms of elite production, sure, but not in style. What I didn’t realize til I just looked it up was that Sweetness didn’t get in the end zone as much as you’d expect. Smith was a TD machine. Sweetness is hard to find a comp style for — maybe OJ? 

[2006Coltsbestever]

38 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

This is a good list. Just for discussion because I love old RBs and not for argument, I don’t see Sweetness and E Smith like clones at all. In terms of elite production, sure, but not in style. What I didn’t realize til I just looked it up was that Sweetness didn’t get in the end zone as much as you’d expect. Smith was a TD machine. Sweetness is hard to find a comp style for — maybe OJ? 

Emmitt and Walter had a lot of the same intangibles is why I said they were clones. Clone may have been too strong of word. 

 

Going to a Top 10, I would say:

1. Jim Brown

2. Emmitt Smith

3. Walter Payton

4. Barry Sanders

5. Eric Dickerson

6. Adrian Peterson

7. Tony Dorsett

8. Marshall Faulk

9. Franco Harris

10. Earl Campbell

 

RB's/FB's/Runners.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Well, OJ always was a slashing type of runner!    (What?   Too soon?!?).    

[2006Coltsbestever]

Edge is top 20, I am surprised nobody brought him up. Gayle Sayers had a real short career so ranking him is tough. He did make the Hall of Fame though.

[rockywoj]

If including old timers, interesting that Gale Sayers is not on the list, granted that his prowess ultimately was undone by injuries.  And speaking of RBs who were undone by injury, Billy Sims was also a GREAT RB and it’s such a shame his career ended as a result of a devastating knee injury.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, rockywoj said:

If including old timers, interesting that Gale Sayers is not on the list, granted that his prowess ultimately was undone by injuries.  And speaking of RBs who were undone by injury, Billy Sims was also a GREAT RB and it’s such a shame his career ended as a result of a devastating knee injury.

See above, I just brought up Sayers 

[rockywoj]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

See above, I just brought up Sayers 

Just saw your post as mine was processed.

[2006Coltsbestever]

John Riggins and Larry Csonka weren't brought up either, both basically FB's but were primary runners.

[2006Coltsbestever]

25 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Emmitt and Walter had a lot of the same intangibles is why I said they were clones. Clone may have been too strong of word. 

 

Going to a Top 10, I would say:

1. Jim Brown

2. Emmitt Smith

3. Walter Payton

4. Barry Sanders

5. Eric Dickerson

6. Adrian Peterson

7. Tony Dorsett

8. Marshall Faulk

9. Franco Harris

10. Earl Campbell

 

RB's/FB's/Runners.

 

Going back to this, leaving LaDainian Tomlinson off the top 10 could be criticized, it came down to him and Earl. I chose Earl.

[Myles]

On 7/2/2023 at 11:52 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

5000 more yards, I highly doubt it. The Cowboys offensive Line was designed to have runners that were North/South runners, Barry was a East/West runner and relied on speed mainly. 

 

 

Barry ran behind poor offensive lines.   I think he ran like he had to.   yes, with the Cowboys line he would have rand for more yards.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 7/2/2023 at 12:44 AM, jvan1973 said:

Who knows what he covets in a running back?  Has he spoken about it?

Nope,  but based on Philly's us of their backs. If he were to pay a rb say 13 mill a year, he would have to be elite at everything. Just  hunch.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 6/30/2023 at 11:00 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Funny because Emmitt Smith could pass catch much better than Barry Sanders and Jim Brown who you think smoke Emmitt, (look up the stats and by eye test it was clear) and Emmitt was also a great pass blocker - ask Troy Aikman, but yet you think Emmitt isn't even a top 10 RB of all-time. Interesting. Emmitt is also the all-time leading rusher. 

 

Taylor is like a Barry Sanders type back, faster than everyone and a top 3 runner in the league today. He deserves a big contract considering his age. He doesn't need to be a great pass catcher. His job is to run period and that is what he should be paid to do. 

Different eras. Today's football is pass oriented.  There is no way I am paying elite rb money to a rb who cannot pass blocking or is a average at pass catching. Doesn't make sense to me. Te's who are not good blockers but elite pass catcher's make elite money. Te' who are elite pass blockers but average pass catchers don't make elite money. We r in different eras.  Like one GM said.  Barkley  used to be a poor pass blocker. When he was in the game, teams would blitz or knew it was a run play because he was so poor at pass blocking. So yes pass blocking and pass catching matters greatly in terms of expanding the play book as it relates to your rb. My point is this. It's 3 and 5 and do u put Taylor in the game? His limitations at pass blocking  and pass catching would allow the defense to have the advantage in terms of play calling. Its a chess game and unless he has improved in those areas, no thanks.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 7/2/2023 at 4:20 AM, jvan1973 said:

Imagine Barry behind those 90s cowboys olines.  

I would have even averaged a solid 3.5 behind that line lol

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Going back to this, leaving LaDainian Tomlinson off the top 10 could be criticized, it came down to him and Earl. I chose Earl.

Earls my favorite behind Bo Jackson. Hell I might even have him ranked higher lol

[Moosejawcolt]

18 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Earl's speed was deceiving. He once had an 81 yard TD run in a game and looked a sprinter. I will say this, I would probably put Peterson at #6 after looking at everything. I still stick with my top 5 in Brown, Emmitt, Walter, Barry, and Dick. Peterson and Dick were beautiful Runners to watch when they got in the open field.

 

Another name nobody has mentioned is Terrell Davis, short career is why but Elway never won a SB until he got to Denver. He also was one of the few that had a 2000 yard rushing season.

"Campbell could run 100 meters in 10.5 seconds, a more-than-respectable time for many a lithe wide receiver, but downright unfair when paired with his wrecking-ball physique and practiced technique (he always ran with his head and shoulders low to the ground, what some coaches call “good body lean”).Apr 1, 2015

 

[Moosejawcolt]

21 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I was going to mention OJ but didn't for reasons people know. A buddy of mine is a huge USC fan, he is in his 60's so he remembers the 70's well. He thinks OJ is top 5 to this day. My mom of all people loved Marcus Allen when he played. She once said, he looks so smooth when he runs, like nobody can touch him . Allen was great at avoiding defenders, when he did it, it was like how did he do it? He wasn't real fast but his vision was among the best, can't teach that.

 

I really wish Bo Jackson would not have got injured, that guy may have been the GOAT had he played 10 years or so. He was a freak. 

I was never an Emmitt fan.i would rate a lot of rbs ahead of him. Many rbs that I have higher never had the Oline or talent around them but had amazing careers.

[jvan1973]

3 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Nope,  but based on Philly's us of their backs. If he were to pay a rb say 13 mill a year, he would have to be elite at everything. Just  hunch.

But you said

 

"I think people really forget what Steichen wants from his rb. Does he want to pay a rb 13 million a year who cannot pass block and is an average pass catcher? To get that kind of money, a rb to me needs to be elite in all facets of the game. Taylor is not."

 

JT is top ten at every metric when given the opportunity.   I honestly get tired of bagging on you,.  You suck at player evaluation 

[csmopar]

8 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

But you said

 

"I think people really forget what Steichen wants from his rb. Does he want to pay a rb 13 million a year who cannot pass block and is an average pass catcher? To get that kind of money, a rb to me needs to be elite in all facets of the game. Taylor is not."

 

JT is top ten at every metric when given the opportunity.   I honestly get tired of bagging on you,.  You suck at player evaluation 

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

But you said

 

"I think people really forget what Steichen wants from his rb. Does he want to pay a rb 13 million a year who cannot pass block and is an average pass catcher? To get that kind of money, a rb to me needs to be elite in all facets of the game. Taylor is not."

 

JT is top ten at every metric when given the opportunity.   I honestly get tired of bagging on you,.  You suck at player evaluation 

Well let's see when the contract offer is out out in public.  That will show how much the Colts value him.

[NewColtsFan]

36 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Well let's see when the contract offer is out out in public.  That will show how much the Colts value him.

That’s assume’s the Colts offer ever goes public?    Typically the offer only becomes known when the player accepts it and it gets reported to the two websites….  Spotrac and OverTheCap. 
 

Otherwise, most often, negotiations rarely get leaked with the Colts.   Just sayin…. 
 

 

[RockThatBlue]

On 6/19/2023 at 1:18 AM, sb2001 said:

OMG. Trade him PLEASE!!!  PLEASE!!

No

[NewColtsFan]

8 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

"Campbell could run 100 meters in 10.5 seconds, a more-than-respectable time for many a lithe wide receiver, but downright unfair when paired with his wrecking-ball physique and practiced technique (he always ran with his head and shoulders low to the ground, what some coaches call “good body lean”).Apr 1, 2015

 

Where did this alleged quote come from?  Who said it?   What human?    Which website?  
 

 I’m 66, old enough to remember Campbell in his prime.   I’d guess there’s a near zero percent chance Earl Campbell ever came even close to a 10.5 100 meters.   Honestly, that’s a very fast time for most,  but for someone like Campbell?   Almost no chance.   

[2006Coltsbestever]

12 hours ago, Myles said:

Barry ran behind poor offensive lines.   I think he ran like he had to.   yes, with the Cowboys line he would have rand for more yards.

Maybe he would have had more? You lost me though when you said 5000 more. 

[Myles]

11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Maybe he would have had more? You lost me though when you said 5000 more. 

My thinking was that he would have around 250 more yards each season and would not have retired early like he did. 

His last 3 seasons he ran for 1,553 yards, 2053 yards and 1,491 yards. 

[w87r]

24 minutes ago, Myles said:

My thinking was that he would have around 250 more yards each season and would not have retired early like he did. 

His last 3 seasons he ran for 1,553 yards, 2053 yards and 1,491 yards. 

He would of had to play 20 years for that math to work.

[NewColtsFan]

24 minutes ago, Myles said:

My thinking was that he would have around 250 more yards each season and would not have retired early like he did. 

His last 3 seasons he ran for 1,553 yards, 2053 yards and 1,491 yards. 

If you think Sanders would’ve had an additional 250 per season, then he would’ve had to play 20 years to rush for an additional 5,000 yards.   I think Sanders only played 10 years. 
 

So somewhere one of the numbers is way off.     Just saying….  

[Moosejawcolt]

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Where did this alleged quote come from?  Who said it?   What human?    Which website?  
 

 I’m 66, old enough to remember Campbell in his prime.   I’d guess there’s a near zero percent chance Earl Campbell ever came even close to a 10.5 100 meters.   Honestly, that’s a very fast time for most,  but for someone like Campbell?   Almost no chance.   

Just copy and pasted it.

 

[Moosejawcolt]

18 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

That’s assume’s the Colts offer ever goes public?    Typically the offer only becomes known when the player accepts it and it gets reported to the two websites….  Spotrac and OverTheCap. 
 

Otherwise, most often, negotiations rarely get leaked with the Colts.   Just sayin…. 
 

 

It will go public as they always do. IF the contract is seen as unfair by the player ,his agent will leak it. If the players request is seen as unfair by the player, the team will leak it.  I agree they rarely leak it but i think this one will be contentious

[jvan1973]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

If you think Sanders would’ve had an additional 250 per season, then he would’ve had to play 20 years to rush for an additional 5,000 yards.   I think Sanders only played 10 years. 
 

So somewhere one of the numbers is way off.     Just saying….  

I think 5000 is a bit out of reach,  but Sanders wouldn't have retired after 10 years if he played on a contender.  He had 1400 yards in his final season.   

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

I think 5000 is a bit out of reach,  but Sanders wouldn't have retired after 10 years if he played on a contender.  He had 1400 yards in his final season.   

No doubt, you’re 100 percent right.   Sanders cut his own career short because he was rarely on a good team.   He was a sight to behold….   
 

 

[Myles]

21 hours ago, w87r said:

He would of had to play 20 years for that math to work.

If he had 250 more yards per season, that would be 2500 for his first ten years and if he played an additional 3 years, that would have added at least another 3000 yards.

[coltsva]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

If he had 250 more yards per season, that would be 2500 for his first ten years and if he played an additional 3 years, that would have added at least another 3000 yards.

The math works fine. 

 

250 x 10 = 2500 (the extra yardage for each year he played)

1000 x 3 = 3000 (estimated yardage for each additional year, if he had played 3 more years) 

TOTAL = 5500 additional yards in his career. 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

If he had 250 more yards per season, that would be 2500 for his first ten years and if he played an additional 3 years, that would have added at least another 3000 yards.

You are digging a hole really deep on this subject. Also the narrative that Emmitt Smith had a great Offensive Line his whole career is nonsense. His Line was great from 1992-1996, basically 5 years in his 15 year career. Those 5 years standout because the Cowboys were dominant as a team. In 1997 the Cowboys O.Line struggled big-time, and several years after that that line had new faces and was injury prone. Larry Allen was great most of his career and he wasn't even on the team in 1992 or 1993. He was a rookie in 1994. The Cowboys basically had the greatest O.Line ever for a period of 3 years from 1994-1996.

 

Barry Sanders had Lomas Brown almost his whole career, he is a top 10 LT of all-time (arguably top 5 ever) so it is not like he played with doo doo his whole career either. Brown made all-pro in 1995 and 2nd team all-pro 4 times while with the Lions.