Colts have 4th pick (Official Discussion Thread)

[stitches]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I agree.  That is my point.  If Ballard is going to invest capital in the legs of a running QB, then the RB should be more of a pass catcher as well as a blocker.  JT's value is neither of those skills.  So Ballard saying he's signing JT long term tells me he doesn't want more exceptional running legs from his QB, he wants arm talent.  

 

Unless AR has such a high ceiling that he reconsiders signing JT long term.

I think if we are drafting AR we need to be looking for a way to get as much as possible for JT and trade him.

[stitches]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

If Ballard had real interest in Fields i dont think its hard now to see him liking Richardson even with his flaws.

He had Trey Lance marked as a blue chip prospect too... 

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

He had Trey Lance marked as a blue chip prospect too... 

Yup. Fields runs about a 4.4 just like Richardson right?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Fields though had more games under his belt and was one of the best passers in college football. So there is a difference. Lance however had very few games under his belt because of Covid.

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Just now, krunk said:

Yup. Fields runs about a 4.4 just like Richardson right?

Give or take... I think he ran 4.46 at his pro day. 

[krunk]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Fields though had more games under his belt and was one of the best ladders in college football. So there is a difference. Lance however had very few games under his belt because of Covid.

Im talking prospect type. The things he would have liked in Fields you can see those things in Richardson. Like the intangibles and the tools.

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think if we are drafting AR we need to be looking for a way to get as much as possible for JT and trade him.

Now a post with some common sense on the matter !

 

AR involves some roster rebuilding, IMO.  Not just adding to what we have, but swapping out some parts...and that extends the gratification.  I'm not disagreeable with that, but we need to understand that going in.

 

Do you think this is what Ballard and Irsay want....is there enough patience for that after the last 3 seasons?

[krunk]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

For Levis it should be pretty easy to verify his commitment and football junkie reputation.  He has played for a number of years at two major schools and for numerous coaches.  So if it’s reported he’s a football junkie and puts the work in I think they have that verified.

The stance you have about Richardson is a little funny bc you were just trying to get us to sell the farm to get Fields and they are very similar prospects except Fields was a better passer in College. Hes still learning in the NFL though. I get you want Levis though. Always has been your stance.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 minutes ago, krunk said:

Im talking prospect type. The things he would have liked in Fields you can see those things in Richardson. Like the intangibles and the tools.

Oh I agree. I was just trying to say which I didn’t do a good job of is maybe Ballard doesn’t care that much about number of games since he also had Lance rated high.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

21 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think if we are drafting AR we need to be looking for a way to get as much as possible for JT and trade him.

Oh I don’t think so. Because Taylor is going to raise the ceiling of Richardson. Because having to guys with that big of a threat to run will help while Richardson improves on his passing game.

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15 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Now a post with some common sense on the matter !

 

AR involves some roster rebuilding, IMO.  Not just adding to what we have, but swapping out some parts...and that extends the gratification.  I'm not disagreeable with that, but we need to understand that going in.

 

Do you think this is what Ballard and Irsay want....is there enough patience for that after the last 3 seasons?

I'm not sure how much you will need to replace specifically for AR right away, but IMO you should start making decisions with AR heavily on your mind( example, you don't start replacing players on your roster right away to fit Richardson, but when you have to make a draft pick, you pick with him in mind... When you have to make a decision about whether to trade someone or trade for someone you do it with him in mind. Nothing different than any QB you draft, but different QBs have different needs to maximize their talent and the chance of your team to win with them.

 

BTW I agree in the beginning we will need to build around Richardson's running ability... BUT... I also think he's different from most running QBs in that he actually has natural instincts to try to make plays with his arm rather than his legs. He doesn't run the first chance he gets, even though he's an exceptional runner. So ideally as he develops his passing game IMO we should try to turn him into some version of Josh Allen, rather than a version of Lamar Jackson. 

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

I'm not sure how much you will need to replace specifically for AR right away, but IMO you should start making decisions with AR heavily on your mind. Nothing different than any QB you draft, but different QBs have different needs to maximize their talent and the chance of your team to win with them.

 

BTW I agree in the beginning we will need to build around Richardson's running ability... BUT... I also think he's different from most running QBs in that he actually has natural instincts to try to make plays with his arm rather than his legs. He doesn't run the first chance he gets, even though he's an exceptional runner. So ideally as he develops his passing game IMO we should try to turn him into some version of Josh Allen, rather than a version of Lamar Jackson. 

The big question is can he put the ball on the correct shoulder when he runs, or even hit the guy in the shoulder at all.  There is nobody here who can say that all it takes is time, and it will happen.

 

He's a huge risk of failure.  And I don't really know what the upside margin is...how much better would he really be than the next guy.  I don't see a proper return for the huge risk.   Maybe its there.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

You're football fan for too long to not know that day 4 of the draft is picking UDFAs. 

And you’ve been a member here like g enough to see that the poster I was responding to said I was right. 

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15 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Oh I don’t think so. Because Taylor is going to raise the ceiling of Richardson. Because having to guys with that big of a threat to run will help while Richardson improves on his passing game.

I think the moment you draft AR the running game will be defined by AR, not Taylor. And don't get me wrong, of course Taylor at his best would be an asset for this team and for AR, but IMO a QB like AR would benefit from a top tier receiver much more than from a top tier RB. I also think running backs have incredibly short lifespan in the league and I don't love giving huge money to one. I would much rather get a pick(we can trade him for) and the capspace than the risk of JT staying healthy and at the top of his game for his next contract.

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

I think the moment you draft AR the running game will be defined by AR, not Taylor. And don't get me wrong, of course Taylor at his best would be an asset for this team and for AR, but IMO a QB like AR would benefit from a top tier receiver much more than from a top tier RB. I also think running backs have incredibly short lifespan in the league and I don't love giving huge money to one. I would much rather get a pick(we can trade him for) and the capspace than the risk of JT staying healthy and at the top of his game for his next contract.

 

 

If we draft Richardson buy Taylor stock. Can’t stop both of them. Having a guy on a rookie deal let’s us keep Taylor.  With those two being run threats that will be hard to stop.

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8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The big question is can he put the ball on the correct shoulder when he runs, or even hit the guy in the shoulder at all.  There is nobody here who can say that all it takes is time, and it will happen.

 

He's a huge risk of failure.  And I don't really know what the upside margin is...how much better would he really be than the next guy.  I don't see a proper return for the huge risk.   Maybe its there.

There is a risk. No two ways about it... but if there wasn't a risk we would have no chance in hell in getting him either.The only reason we might have a chance at a prospect like Richardson is because he's raw and risky. If he wasn't he'd be consensus no. 1 pick.

 

Did you check out the stats I posted earlier on him? His throws broken down by length - short, intermediate, deep... he's already doing great on the intermediate and deep passes... his real trouble and issue is his short passes. It just seems like he has some mental block when he tries to take something off his throws and tries to throw with touch...

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Its why teams have to have a starting QB to let guys like him sit as QB3 for probably 3 years.   I think Geno is in a better place to give the fans what they want rather than Minshew is for us.

 

Some college QBs have 5 years of experience because of covid.  AR basically has 1.

I think the days of sitting a QB for THREE  years as an PLAN are pretty much over.   They stopped with the CBA that went into effect in 2011.   You’ve got to make decisions in the year 3-4 range about the 5th year option. 
 

And before you point to Jordan Love, that wasn’t the Packers PLAN when they drafted him.    Rodgers was supposed to be gone long before now.   Then he had MVP seasons in 20 and 21 while Live underachieved. 
 

It’s hard enough to sit a rookie QB for the entire first season, much less three.  At some point AR has to play.   Certainly by Year 2, and, depending on the team, maybe 4-6 games at the end of the rookie season.   JMO. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Wikipedia isn't given to someone who knows a popular person to run their page, as far as I know. They're usually created, updated and verified by enthusiastic internet users who are interested in the respective field. Anyone can create a new page if there's not one already, but usually all information entered need to be cited with reliable sources and would get verified, rejected, removed or corrected by others and in some cases admins. 

 

But, as always, sources and subsequently the information available could be wrong or misquoted or ambiguous and could be up to anyone's interpretation. 

 

I'd not discount wiki pages as unreliable but wouldn't consider them as official information either. 

I believe that’s mostly an old out of date position.   If you’re famous, you typically have someone manage your wiki page for you.  Typically, a staffer for the agent.   Even a family member.   But famous people are NOT leaving their image on their wiki page to fans on the internet.   I believe those days are mostly gone. 

[MikeCurtis]

I really think that if we want Richardson........  we will have to trade to 3

 

Seattle has shown interest and are  at 5......  At 5, AZ could get a needed stud DL  / And picks

Raiders have shown interest and are at 7...... at 7 AZ could get a needed GOOD DL / And picks

 

 

We will see what they do

 

 

 

 

 

[#12.]

2 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I really think that if we want Richardson........  we will have to trade to 3

 

 

 

 

 

 

I still don't get the feeling they do.  

 

Holder followed Richardson at the combine for week and wrote an article on it.  This morning, he admitted his thoughts on us drafting Richardson might be clouded by that fact.  

 

Holder is pretty much the only one saying Richardson, Holder along with certain other bloggers who have been cheering for it all along.

[chad72]

7 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I really think that if we want Richardson........  we will have to trade to 3

 

Seattle has shown interest and are  at 5......  At 5, AZ could get a needed stud DL  / And picks

Raiders have shown interest and are at 7...... at 7 AZ could get a needed GOOD DL / And picks

 

 

We will see what they do

 

 

Best scenario is one of Stroud or Young are available at No.3 and that would make me feel better about a trade up to No.3

[DougDew]

31 minutes ago, stitches said:

There is a risk. No two ways about it... but if there wasn't a risk we would have no chance in hell in getting him either.The only reason we might have a chance at a prospect like Richardson is because he's raw and risky. If he wasn't he'd be consensus no. 1 pick.

 

Did you check out the stats I posted earlier on him? His throws broken down by length - short, intermediate, deep... he's already doing great on the intermediate and deep passes... his real trouble and issue is his short passes. It just seems like he has some mental block when he tries to take something off his throws and tries to throw with touch...

I'd have to watch him play some games before I could really comment on his accuracy.  Just going by reports.   The stats always have untold stories about circumstance and situations that need to be understood.

 

Lets talk about upside.  What is really the upside?  How many incremental good plays he's he going to make from his extra athleticism and size that a 6'4 or 6'3" Levis and Stroud wouldn't make?   For all of the replays of DW bouncing around and through some tacklers to throw a TD pass, HOU went 4-12 that year.

 

I think @NewColtsFanmade a good point.  The window for a QB...especially any top 5 pick, is starting by year 2.  Where is AR going to be then, what will Irsay tolerate, and what would be the difference between AR, Levis, or Hooker then and going forward into year's 3 to 5 and possibly the next contract.

 

And would the Colts have to change the roster around as much if we took less of a runner in Levis or Hooker.  We would be more likely to keep JT.

[#12.]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

Best scenario is one of Stroud or Young are available at No.3 and that would make me feel better about a trade up to No.3

 

If Frank likes Richardson, you could still do the 3 way with Arizona and get to #1.  It should be cheaper than a Bears trade would have been.  Carolina said they're open to it.

[stitches]

25 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'd have to watch him play some games before I could really comment on his accuracy.  Just going by reports.   The stats always have untold stories about circumstance and situations that need to be understood.

 

Lets talk about upside.  What is really the upside?  How many incremental good plays he's he going to make from his extra athleticism and size that a 6'4 or 6'3" Levis and Stroud wouldn't make?   For all of the replays of DW bouncing around and through some tacklers to throw a TD pass, HOU went 4-12 that year.

 

Richardson is ALREADY, TODAY, making more big time throws while having FEWER turnover worthy plays than Levis. This is while being raw with his footwork and mechanics. And this is before we even touch on his rushing ability which might be top 3 in the league day 1... Stroud is a different story. I completely understand why people would have him ahead of Richardson, even if I don't agree. But then again, we very likely won't have the choice of drafting Stroud.

25 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think @NewColtsFanmade a good point.  The window for a QB...especially any top 5 pick, is starting by year 2.  Where is AR going to be then, what will Irsay tolerate, and what would be the difference between AR, Levis, or Hooker then and going forward into year's 3 to 5 and possibly the next contract.

 

And would the Colts have to change the roster around as much if we took less of a runner in Levis or Hooker.  We would be more likely to keep JT.

IMO Steichen and his coaching staff should be aiming at starting Richardson sometime during his rookie year. Start by giving him some specific packages in spot duties in the beginning to give him a taste of the game... and if he does well, increase the load and maybe even start him. I think he's less raw  processing and decision-making wise than people imagine when they see his completion %. Meaning - he probably will be ready to play sometime this year. He may still have trouble with his mechanics and accuracy and thus he might not be great in a strict passing sense, but he probably will be able to run a functioning offense of the Eagles Hurts kind. And if this doesn't happen, IMO the goal should be for him to be the starter year 2. I think if he's not ready to start year 2, something has gone wrong. Notice, I'm not saying he should be great in year 2, but he should be able to execute the offense as it is designed for him. In that sense I don't disagree with @NewColtsFan, so yes... Year 2 he should be starting. Anything before that should be bonus.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This was a really good podcast on the QB decision from Zak and James.

 

What keefer learned about Levis his pro day. He says he is a great kid. Coaches say that  you never have to ask him to do more. Sometimes he is so OCD about football he has to be asked to unwind some. He won’t except failure.Then keefer mentioned what Steichen  said about being obsessed with football.

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/one-percent-better-a-show-about-the-indianapolis-colts/id1477561219?i=1000606791157

[cdgacoltsfan]

37 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I really think that if we want Richardson........  we will have to trade to 3

 

Seattle has shown interest and are  at 5......  At 5, AZ could get a needed stud DL  / And picks

Raiders have shown interest and are at 7...... at 7 AZ could get a needed GOOD DL / And picks

 

 

We will see what they do

 

 

 

 

 

Ballard won't take a risk to move up. It's not in his DNA to swing for the fence. Ballard considers playing bingo with his grandmother risky.

[cdgacoltsfan]

40 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I really think that if we want Richardson........  we will have to trade to 3

 

Seattle has shown interest and are  at 5......  At 5, AZ could get a needed stud DL  / And picks

Raiders have shown interest and are at 7...... at 7 AZ could get a needed GOOD DL / And picks

 

 

We will see what they do

 

 

 

 

 

Trading to 3 would guarantee Young,Stroud, or AR15. Makes 0 sense for Ballard to be this passive.

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Ballard won't take a risk to move up. It's not in his DNA to swing for the fence. Ballard considers playing bingo with his grandmother risky.

Bingo!    Nicely done!   Well played! 
 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

This was a really good podcast on the QB decision from Zak and James.

 

What keefer learned about Levis his pro day. He says he is a great kid. Coaches say that  you never have to ask him to do more. Sometimes he is so OCD about football he has to be asked to unwind some. He won’t except failure.Then keefer mentioned what Steichen  said about being obsessed with football.

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/one-percent-better-a-show-about-the-indianapolis-colts/id1477561219?i=1000606791157

Everything Zak says here sounds like Luck.

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Everything Zak says here sounds like Luck.

 

you post a link, and within 5 minutes post again, quoting the post you made 5 min. ago.  No wonder you have almost 2400 posts in this thread alone

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Trading to 3 would guarantee Young,Stroud, or AR15. Makes 0 sense for Ballard to be this passive.

Unless Ballard and Steichen are good with Levis.    Doesn’t that make sense? 
 

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Everything Zak says here sounds like Luck.

Did you mean to write Levis?   And not Luck?   

[cdgacoltsfan]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Unless Ballard and Steichen are good with Levis.    Doesn’t that make sense? 
 

Did you mean to write Levis?   And not Luck?   

I think Levis has the most bust potential. Anyone that brags and posts body building pics of himself is both self centered and insecure. They will eat him up at the NFL level.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Unless Ballard and Steichen are good with Levis.    Doesn’t that make sense? 
 

Did you mean to write Levis?   And not Luck?   

What he says about Levis sounds like Luck.

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

I think Levis has the most bust potential. Anyone that brags and posts body building pics of himself is both self centered and insecure. They will eat him up at the NFL level.

That may or may not be true.   I don’t know?    But I trust Steichen to know best.   So if he’s fine with Levis then I’m fine with him.   I give him the benefit of the doubt until I have reason not to. 

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

What he says about Levis sounds like Luck.

Oh, sorry.   I didn’t see/hear that.   How are the two alike?   

[rockywoj]

Sirius XM Moving the Chains first mock draft of the year, Pat Kirwin just chose QB Anthony Richardson for the Colts at slot 4.

 

I am surprised Kirwin chose Richardson, as he seemed to constantly slag him as too much of a project to go so high.  He says it’s a boom or bust pick.  Kirwin said if he doesn’t work out as a QB, he’ll make one heck of a tight end.  lol. He also said in taking Richardson, they have to run an offense like how Baltimore does for Lamar. 

 

1. CJ Stroud

2. Bryce Young

3. Will Anderson

4. Anthony Richardson

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, stitches said:

Richardson is ALREADY, TODAY, making more big time throws while having FEWER turnover worthy plays than Levis. This is while being raw with his footwork and mechanics. And this is before we even touch on his rushing ability which might be top 3 in the league day 1... Stroud is a different story. I completely understand why people would have him ahead of Richardson, even if I don't agree. But then again, we very likely won't have the choice of drafting Stroud.

But isn't that a limited sample size...one season.  And did the HC confine him, manage him; and maybe Levis has full reign of the playbook?   I'm just saying that I would want to watch tape in order to understand situation and circumstance.

 

17 minutes ago, stitches said:

IMO Steichen and his coaching staff should be aiming at starting Richardson sometime during his rookie year. Start by giving him some specific packages in spot duties in the beginning to give him a taste of the game... and if he does well, increase the load and maybe even start him. I think he's less raw  processing and decision-making wise than people imagine when they see his completion %. Meaning - he probably will be ready to play sometime this year. He may still have trouble with his mechanics and accuracy and thus he might not be great in a strict passing sense, but he probably will be able to run a functioning offense of the Eagles Hurts kind. And if this doesn't happen, IMO the goal should be for him to be the starter year 2. I think if he's not ready to start year 2, something has gone wrong. Notice, I'm not saying he should be great in year 2, but he should be able to execute the offense as it is designed for him. In that sense I don't disagree with @NewColtsFan, so yes... Year 2 he should be starting. Anything before that should be bonus.

The thing with Jalen Hurts is that he wasn't asked to make big chunk plays in the passing game.  He really is a passing game manager who is aided by great WRs and who can make plays with his legs.  From a passing game perspective, Hurts is a dink and dunker, is he not? I don't think AR sounds like he would be a game manager, but more like a big play deep guy for an Arians offense who could double as a running back.   Steichen coached Herbert and Hurts who were simply better and more experienced QBs coming into the NFL.   I don't know that you can just put it on Steichen that he's going to elevate AR as a prediction.  

 

I think ARs role-model in the NFL is Josh Allen, not Jalen Hurts.  Not a bad goal.

 

I agree year 2, but I don't know what the offense would look like.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

That may or may not be true.   I don’t know?    But I trust Steichen to know best.   So if he’s fine with Levis then I’m fine with him.   I give him the benefit of the doubt until I have reason not to. 

Oh, sorry.   I didn’t see/hear that.   How are the two alike?   

He explains how Levis has a very OCD personality. One of the things that’s well known is how Lucks personality was so OCD he had a hard time finding balance. Almost cost him his marriage and in the end was a big reason he retired.  His playing style is also a lot like Andrew. He plays like a linebacker wanting yo take contact. The similarities are actually kind of freaky.

[cdgacoltsfan]

24 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Everything Zak says here sounds like Luck.

Luck was so obsessed with football....he quit.

[Moosejawcolt]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

I agree.  That is my point.  If Ballard is going to invest capital in the legs of a running QB, then the RB should be more of a pass catcher as well as a blocker.  JT's value is neither of those skills.  So Ballard saying he's signing JT long term tells me he doesn't want more exceptional running legs from his QB, he wants arm talent.  

 

Unless AR has such a high ceiling that he reconsiders signing JT long term.

That could lead to Levi. Manning met with him.

[Goatface Killah]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

If we draft Richardson buy Taylor stock. Can’t stop both of them. Having a guy on a rookie deal let’s us keep Taylor.  With those two being run threats that will be hard to stop.

They want to trade the guy who would help a rookie QB more than anybody else we have on offense.

 

These guys make zero sense.

 

They just like playing GM and coming up with hypotheticals.