Colts have 4th pick (Official Discussion Thread)

[VikingsFanInChennai]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Day 3 or 4?     Nice typo.   Perhaps you meant round 3 or 4? 

You're football fan for too long to not know that day 4 of the draft is picking UDFAs. 

[DougDew]

12 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 You are describing this point that is understood by 12 year Olds now.

Doug is making points that are laughable to a 11 year old.

 I'm guessing you two are playing some sort of game and you both have been up for at least 48 hours. It would help explain this thread.

You are insulting.  Especially when you are not grasping basic, high level concepts. 

 

Its pretty simple.

 

If you have a star running QB...and a star running back...that's a lot of salary cap (now or later) or draft capital invested in star.......legs.   When its a passing league.

 

Paying the star QB based on the ability to use his legs makes no sense unless you are planning on NOT paying the star running back.  Otherwise, there isn't enough capital to properly fund the passing game.   Which is the big part of the game that gets yards by throwing the ball through the air instead of getting yards by carrying the ball in someone's arms.

 

Passing the ball is better than running with it...and now we want TWO star runners.  See the problem?

 

NYG is trying it with Jones and Barkley, and we'll see how it works out for more than a couple of years.  And they are playing in the NFC, so their record may be subsidized by that environment.

 

[rockywoj]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Saw a post somewhere saying AR is only 20.    He’s not.   He’s 21, and turns 22 on May 22nd. 
 

Just for the record. 

“Date of birth: May 22, 2002

age 20 years”

 

From the new fangled internet.  How is 20 turning 21 flawed math?

 

…………………………

Edit:  My response here came before I read any of the follow up comments to your post that I quoted.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

42 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I've said since December that AR to SEA makes the most sense.  They like their athletic QBs in SEA and he could be their new face of the franchise while Geno is the bridge.  AR is like a minor league baseball player that needs time, and SEA has the capital from the RW trade to use it on him and let him sit. 

 

It would be like trading an older Russell Wilson for the his 15 year replacement plus spare change.

It doesn’t make sense because they are division rivals.

7 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

“Date of birth: May 22, 2002

age 20 years”

 

From the new fangled internet.  How is 20 turning 21 flawed math?

 

…………………………

Edit:  My response here came before I read any of the follow up comments to your post that I quoted.

They have his age incorrect on wiki and all over the internet.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

You are insulting.  Especially when you don't grasp basic concepts of football teams. 

 

Its pretty simple.

 

If you have a star running QB...and a star running back...that's a lot of salary cap (now or later) capital invested in star.......legs.   When its a passing league.

 

Paying the star QB based on the ability to use his legs makes no sense unless you are planning on NOT paying the star running back.  Otherwise, there isn't enough capital to properly fund the passing game.   The big part of the game that gets yards by throwing the ball through the air instead of getting yards by carrying the ball in someone's arms.

 

NYG is trying it with Jones and Barkley, and we'll see how it works out for more than a couple of years.  And they are playing in the NFC, so their record may be subsidized by that environment.

 

If the Colts draft a QB he will be on his rookie deal so when you pay a guy like Taylor, the two contracts won’t effect one another if ever because Taylor’s deal is more than likely not going to increase over the span of the new deal of said QB IF that QB even works out. 

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

It doesn’t make sense because they are division rivals.

They have his age incorrect on wiki and all over the internet.

I was expressing how much sense it made for SEA to want AR and to use RWs draft capital to get it.  My comment wasn't really talking about a trade to 3...maybe they trade to 2 and HOU figures Young will fall to 5,  Or maybe they trade to 4 after AZ takes Anderson. 

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

If the Colts draft a QB he will be on his rookie deal so when you pay a guy like Taylor, the two contracts won’t effect one another if ever because Taylor’s deal is more than likely not going to increase over the span of the new deal of said QB IF that QB even works out. 

AR wont be developed as a passer by the time JTs contract is due...so its an offense based on running against stacked boxes for two years.   Maybe re-sign JT at a high price while AR is ready...then what do you do in year 5 of ARs contract?  It will be the NYG situation with Barkley already paid and Jones signing a new deal.  We'll see how all of that money invested in legs instead of arms and catchers is going to work out for them. 

 

Lamar and BAL never got far....and adding a star RB behind Lamar was never entertained as a solution to fixing their offense.

[RollerColt]

59 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I've said since December that AR to SEA makes the most sense.  They like their athletic QBs in SEA and he could be their new face of the franchise while Geno is the bridge.  AR is like a minor league baseball player that needs time, and SEA has the capital from the RW trade to use it on him and let him sit. 

 

It would be like trading an older Russell Wilson for the his 15 year replacement plus spare change.

You’ve got me thinking. 
 

The NFL seriously needs a better pipeline system. In college, there’s just too much money involved for teams to worry about preparing players for the NFL, they want to win regardless of what scheme they’re using. 
 

A minor league would really help out the Richardsons of the world, who are entering into the pros at basically their junior year. Lineman could really use a year or so as well to get acclimated. 
 

It would take probably too much to get it going though. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

16 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I was expressing how much sense it made for SEA to want AR and to use RWs draft capital to get it.  My comment wasn't really talking about a trade to 3...maybe they trade to 2 and HOU figures Young will fall to 5,  Or maybe they trade to 4 after AZ takes Anderson. 

For Seattle is does. AZ won’t do it. I am more concerned about titans because AZ can get a boat load. Look what SF gave up to move from 13 to 3 for Lance. 

[PRnum1]

Sorry if this has been posted earlier.  This is steve smith commenting on AR.  He was at the florida pro day.

 

Franchise great Steve Smith Sr. laid that bet out on Thursday, when University of Florida quarterback Anthony Richardson took the field for his pro day outing. The future Hall of Famer and current NFL Network analyst said that while Richardson could very well end up being the best player of the current class, he’s still a risky investment.

 

 

“No one wants to be as the person who passed on Tesla or Amazon,” he said. “Because now you have to look back and the question is gonna be when that owner says, ‘What guy told us not to draft him because of the floor?’ We know what the ceiling could be. But what is the floor?

 

“But the problem with that statement and the problem with all of that is—how long is it gonna take for him to develop into that Corvette? Into that beautiful, extravagant house that you’re expecting it to be? What happens if it takes five years?

“Is he a kid that you want him to play tomorrow? I don’t believe he’s ready to play tomorrow not because he can’t. It’s because he lacks the experience. And with lack of experience, it becomes a roller coaster. You don’t wanna allow a young kid to lose his confidence.”

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/panthers-great-steve-smith-sr-164025346.html

[DougDew]

Just now, RollerColt said:

You’ve got me thinking. 
 

The NFL seriously needs a better pipeline system. In college, there’s just too much money involved for teams to worry about preparing players for the NFL, they want to win regardless of what scheme they’re using. 
 

A minor league would really help out the Richardsons of the world, who are entering into the pros at basically their junior year. Lineman could really use a year or so as well to get acclimated. 
 

It would take probably too much to get it going though. 

Its why teams have to have a starting QB to let guys like him sit as QB3 for probably 3 years.   I think Geno is in a better place to give the fans what they want rather than Minshew is for us.

 

Some college QBs have 5 years of experience because of covid.  AR basically has 1.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Im sure they’re not.   I’m sure they’re right.  
 

I’m just surprised at the error on his wiki page and that a major university would leave out something so basic from a bio and a roster.   It’s all good.    

Wikipedia isn't given to someone who knows a popular person to run their page, as far as I know. They're usually created, updated and verified by enthusiastic internet users who are interested in the respective field. Anyone can create a new page if there's not one already, but usually all information entered need to be cited with reliable sources and would get verified, rejected, removed or corrected by others and in some cases admins. 

 

But, as always, sources and subsequently the information available could be wrong or misquoted or ambiguous and could be up to anyone's interpretation. 

 

I'd not discount wiki pages as unreliable but wouldn't consider them as official information either. 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

AR wont be developed as a passer by the time JTs contract is due...so its an offense based on running against stacked boxes for two years.   Maybe re-sign JT at a high price while AR is ready...then what do you do in year 5 of ARs contract?  It will be the NYG situation with Barkley already paid and Jones signing a new deal.  We'll see how all of that money invested in legs instead of arms and catchers is going to work out for them. 

 

Lamar and BAL never got far....and adding a star RB behind Lamar was never entertained as a solution to fixing their offense.

you can draft a RB in 5 years though. The colts don’t have to worry about this particular issue that to me is a non issue. The big contracts are hitting the cap at the same times. 

[rockywoj]

29 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

It doesn’t make sense because they are division rivals.

They have his age incorrect on wiki and all over the internet.

So his DOB is factually and verifiably not May 22, 2022?  I have only been basing my belief on the information provided.  Regardless, though, 20 or 21 both still equate to being very young / raw with ample room for growth.  
 

Seems like the biggy on AR is the sincerity / legitimacy of his unwavering commitment to putting in the hours upon hours of study and practice and love of the game that it takes to truly become elite.

 

When it comes to Levi’s, I don’t know, it just seems to me based on what I’ve read of him, that with him there might be just some lip service there, rather than sincere commitment. 

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

you can draft a RB in 5 years though. The colts don’t have to worry about this particular issue that to me is a non issue. The big contracts are hitting the cap at the same times. 

I know, but to get a STAR RB that we are talking about having/keeping, that will take a high draft pick.  Either way, its a lot of capital invested in running with the ball instead of passing it, and that's a formula that just falls short come playoff time, IMO.

 

For all of the running Mahomes, Allen, and even Hurts do, its their improved passing that wins games and what matters.

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

So his DOB is factually and verifiably not May 22, 2022?  I have only been basing my belief on the information provided.  Regardless, though, 20 or 21 both still equate to being very young / raw with ample room for growth.  
 

Seems like the biggy on AR is the sincerity / legitimacy of his unwavering commitment to putting in the hours upon hours of study and practice and love of the game that it takes to truly become elite.

 

When it comes to Levi’s, I don’t know, it just seems to me based on what I’ve read of him, that with him there might be just some lip service there, rather than sincere commitment. 

I think its pretty hard for us fans to know what the players' mental make up is and if its suited for the NFL.  We haven't heard boo from the other guys, Stroud and Young, other than they know how to speak in front of a microphone, but that doesn't speak to what they do when nobody is looking.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[richard pallo]

5 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

So his DOB is factually and verifiably not May 22, 2022?  I have only been basing my belief on the information provided.  Regardless, though, 20 or 21 both still equate to being very young / raw with ample room for growth.  
 

Seems like the biggy on AR is the sincerity / legitimacy of his unwavering commitment to putting in the hours upon hours of study and practice and love of the game that it takes to truly become elite.

 

When it comes to Levi’s, I don’t know, it just seems to me based on what I’ve read of him, that with him there might be just some lip service there, rather than sincere commitment. 

For Levis it should be pretty easy to verify his commitment and football junkie reputation.  He has played for a number of years at two major schools and for numerous coaches.  So if it’s reported he’s a football junkie and puts the work in I think they have that verified.

[colts52761]

Any chance we take Christian Gonzalez with the #4 pick?

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Raiders and Titans are the two teams I am concerned with jumping to 3. Raiders took Richardson out to dinner. 

[cdgacoltsfan]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

The last quarterback drafted that played the fewest college games before AR was Mitch Tribusky.  And he didn’t have an accuracy issue.  Same number 13.  No thank you on AR.  There are an infinite number of better choices with the 4th pick than AR. He would not be a Ballard move at 4 imo.

First, it's Trubisky. I don't think you can compare the two. AR is just a tad more athletic and has just a tad more upside..lol.

So ,you think drafting a player with upside isn't a Ballard move but writing a $230+ guaranteed million dollar check to an often injured player is a Ballard move .  Gotcha.

[PRnum1]

3 minutes ago, colts52761 said:

Any chance we take Christian Gonzalez with the #4 pick?

 

Colts are taking Gonzales at 4 with this latest Mock.  Anderson goes at 5.  Levis at 8 to the Titans.

 

Top 3 QB's go 1,2,3.  Lions jump in front of Colts at 3 taking Richardson.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/updated-nfl-mock-draft-anderson-124742230.html

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

Colts are taking Gonzales at 4 with this latest Mock.  Anderson goes at 5.  Levis at 8 to the Titans.

 

Top 3 QB's go 1,2,3.  Lions jump in front of Colts at 3 taking Richardson.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/updated-nfl-mock-draft-anderson-124742230.html

I am not worried about lions jumping. Because colts could match that easy if they really want one of Levis or Richardson. Titans are the one to watch because AZ could get a ton. There is precedent with the Trey Lance trade up,

[krunk]

If Ballard had real interest in Fields i dont think its hard now to see him liking Richardson even with his flaws.

[ColtsUrUs]

14 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Raiders and Titans are the two teams I am concerned with jumping to 3. Raiders took Richardson out to dinner. 

But the Titans just used a 3rd Pick on Malik Willis.

These are the list of the Titans Picks for 2023. They'll have to give up 2 picks this draft and another from next years draft just to move up. And then they will have two QB's on roster that they are hoping to develop with low draft capital. 

 

Round 1, Pick 11

Round 2, Pick 41

Round 3, Pick 72

Round 5, Pick 147

Round 6, Pick 186 (from ATL)

Round 7, Pick 228

[BProland85]

10 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I am not worried about lions jumping. Because colts could match that easy if they really want one of Levis or Richardson. Titans are the one to watch because AZ could get a ton. There is precedent with the Trey Lance trade up,

I will laugh if the Titans give up to farm to get a Richardson or Levis at 3. Their coaching staff doesn’t know how to develop QBs. 

[DougDew]

25 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

Colts are taking Gonzales at 4 with this latest Mock.  Anderson goes at 5.  Levis at 8 to the Titans.

 

Top 3 QB's go 1,2,3.  Lions jump in front of Colts at 3 taking Richardson.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/updated-nfl-mock-draft-anderson-124742230.html

Lions are too close this year to winning the NFC North and contending for the NFCCG...with Rogers out of the picture.  Now is the year to add immediate help for their team...like a Gonzalez, Witherspoon, Skoronksi, Johnson, that tall WR or a TE, to put them over the top.   Now is not the year to build for the future, IMO.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

18 minutes ago, krunk said:

If Ballard had real interest in Fields i dont think its hard now to see him liking Richardson even with his flaws.

Probably a lot of truth to that.

[Moosejawcolt]

52 minutes ago, DougDew said:

AR wont be developed as a passer by the time JTs contract is due...so its an offense based on running against stacked boxes for two years.   Maybe re-sign JT at a high price while AR is ready...then what do you do in year 5 of ARs contract?  It will be the NYG situation with Barkley already paid and Jones signing a new deal.  We'll see how all of that money invested in legs instead of arms and catchers is going to work out for them. 

 

Lamar and BAL never got far....and adding a star RB behind Lamar was never entertained as a solution to fixing their offense.

I think if you draft AR,  you would a back more like Ekler who he could dump it to when you are  in trouble. You see that is my problem with Ballard. He is so stubborn and says Taylor is going to be signed long term. Why does he have to say those things? He said the same thing for Nelson. I am hoping with this 2nd chance, he is showing signs of growing. This draft will define him, as there are no more excuses. He could have got to number 1 and he chose not to.  He appears to be confident that they get their  guy at 4. I also believe that Steichen is the one making this pick. If Steichen said he wanted to make sure they got Young or Stroud, they would have moved up.  If Steichen is not in the lead with regards to drafting the next qb then we are hooped; I believe he is driving the car.  Ballard has a 2nd chance but no doubt his star has lost his shine with Irsay and I believe Jim is not making a move without consulting Steichen. If we hear after the draft or years from now that Ballard and Steichen were at odds with regards who they wanted to draft, I would be shocked. I have more faith in Steichen at this point making the pick than Ballard. So in short, I feel confident with the franchise in the hands of Steichen who will be making this pick. If they were in the back room and Ballard wanted Levi and Steichen wanted AR, Jim would say go AR and I am confident of that!!

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

20 minutes ago, ColtsUrUs said:

But the Titans just used a 3rd Pick on Malik Willis.

These are the list of the Titans Picks for 2023. They'll have to give up 2 picks this draft and another from next years draft just to move up. And then they will have two QB's on roster that they are hoping to develop with low draft capital. 

 

Round 1, Pick 11

Round 2, Pick 41

Round 3, Pick 72

Round 5, Pick 147

Round 6, Pick 186 (from ATL)

Round 7, Pick 228

Willis wasn’t even serviceable. He was down right awful. So bad they had to sign another QB to try and get them into the playoffs. I think Levis is more likely uo go to titans if they move to 3.

[Moosejawcolt]

19 minutes ago, ColtsUrUs said:

But the Titans just used a 3rd Pick on Malik Willis.

These are the list of the Titans Picks for 2023. They'll have to give up 2 picks this draft and another from next years draft just to move up. And then they will have two QB's on roster that they are hoping to develop with low draft capital. 

 

Round 1, Pick 11

Round 2, Pick 41

Round 3, Pick 72

Round 5, Pick 147

Round 6, Pick 186 (from ATL)

Round 7, Pick 228

I have read that the Titans are sniffing around. I dont think Willis is safe and they have a new GM and I believe Willis is a Vrabel kind of qb and Oh, Willis sucks!! Plus, I doubt that Zona wants to move all the way down to number 11. Thats quite a slide

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think if you draft AR,  you would a back more like Ekler who he could dump it to when you are  in trouble. You see that is my problem with Ballard. He is so stubborn and says Taylor is going to be signed long term. Why does he have to say those things? He said the same thing for Nelson. I am hoping with this 2nd chance, he is showing signs of growing. This draft will define him, as there are no more excuses. He could have got to number 1 and he chose not to.  He appears to be confident that they get their  guy at 4. I also believe that Steichen is the one making this pick. If Steichen said he wanted to make sure they got Young or Stroud, they would have moved up.  If Steichen is not in the lead with regards to drafting the next qb then we are hooped; I believe he is driving the car.  Ballard has a 2nd chance but no doubt his star has lost his shine with Irsay and I believe Jim is not making a move without consulting Steichen. If we hear after the draft or years from now that Ballard and Steichen were at odds with regards who they wanted to draft, I would be shocked. I have more faith in Steichen at this point making the pick than Ballard. So in short, I feel confident with the franchise in the hands of Steichen who will be making this pick. If they were in the back room and Ballard wanted Levi and Steichen wanted AR, Jim would say go AR and I am confident of that!!

I agree.  That is my point.  If Ballard is going to invest capital in the legs of a running QB, then the RB should be more of a pass catcher as well as a blocker.  JT's value is neither of those skills.  So Ballard saying he's signing JT long term tells me he doesn't want more exceptional running legs from his QB, he wants arm talent.  

 

Unless AR has such a high ceiling that he reconsiders signing JT long term.

[Moosejawcolt]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I agree.  That is my point.  If Ballard is going to invest capital in the legs of a running QB, then the RB should be more of a pass catcher as well as a blocker.  JT's value is neither of those skills.  So Ballard saying he's signing JT long term tells me he doesn't want more exceptional running legs from his QB, he wants arm talent.  

 

Unless AR has such a high ceiling that he reconsiders signing JT long term.

If i was drafting AR, I would put an emphasis on long WR's and TE's. I  actually think they have great wrs and te's that fit Richardson. They are tall and very long. I love Taylor, but he is just a luxury at this time if they pick Richardson. Mahonnes, Allen, Herbert, Lawrence  and Hurts don't need elite rb's. Why do you think the Eagles chose to let their rb test free agency? They have plug and play mentality with Hurts. I love Taylor but if he resigns him it will only show that Ballard's has not learned a thing and here we go again. Giving 2nd contracts to inside players. Giants want to keep Barkley because Jones is not that good. They had to resign him , I guess, because they had no one else. Barkley is there to protect Jones and if we need Taylor for that reason then we drafted the wrong qb. With Richardson's athletism  and if he pans out, you could put me in that back field and I would tear it up lol!!

[BlackTiger]

Take one of the 4 qbs.  If we pass and go BPA thats how you end up in QB purgatory. 

 

We will miss out on the top picks again next year and be in a spot thats no better to grab one than we are now.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

48 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I am not worried about lions jumping. Because colts could match that easy if they really want one of Levis or Richardson. Titans are the one to watch because AZ could get a ton. There is precedent with the Trey Lance trade up,

How can Colts match what Lions would offer? or Seahawks for that matter? 

 

If Colts are going to offer more than what it'd normally take to move up from #4 to #3, would it be worth to give up more draft picks? 

 

If they really would worry about someone jumping ahead, wouldn't it not be better to finalize a trade right now to get to #3? 

[DougDew]

13 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

If i was drafting AR, I would put an emphasis on long WR's and TE's. I  actually think they have great wrs and te's that fit Richardson. They are tall and very long. I love Taylor, but he is just a luxury at this time if they pick Richardson. Mahonnes, Allen, Herbert, Lawrence  and Hurts don't need elite rb's. Why do you think the Eagles chose to let their rb test free agency? They have plug and play mentality with Hurts. I love Taylor but if he resigns him it will only show that Ballard's has not learned a thing and here we go again. Giving 2nd contracts to inside players. Giants want to keep Barkley because Jones is not that good. They had to resign him , I guess, because they had no one else. Barkley is there to protect Jones and if we need Taylor for that reason then we drafted the wrong qb. With Richardson's athletism  and if he pans out, you could put me in that back field and I would tear it up lol!!

I agree, but don't put AR into that bucket.  Those QBs run as a means to escape to then throw chunk passes...or they scramble for a first down.  ARs skill is super running ability, like Lamar.  But yeah, elite RB is not the answer for AR, IMO.  I'm not sure that there is one outside of him improving his passing skills.

 

AR can't throw accurately from the pocket, and now we expect him to throw accurately on the run using different arm angles?

 

Hurts is with a Philly team that is loaded at a lot of spots.  Its like SEA was back when Wilson was young.  All of that will come due in a few years and Philly will be SEA....a team in high salaried purgatory needing superior talent everywhere to justify paying their QB such a high amount of money.

 

Richardson tear it up?  He's one player.  You're sounding like AR is going to shed 2 defenders in the pocket, jump over another, sprint at 4.4 speed to the corner, juke 2 guys then stiff arm the third guy to score a 30 yard touchdown.  

 

That sound like the fans who thought Nelson was a transcendental G who would pancake the DL on the way to the LB and S, LOL.  You know how that worked out.   You're smarter than that.

[craigerb]

1 hour ago, rockywoj said:

So AR's DOB is factually and verifiably not May 22, 2022?

 

His child care center could not have gotten it that wrong.

[csmopar]

Anyone else gonna laugh when we take the kid out of Purdue at 4?

[danlhart87]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Raiders and Titans are the two teams I am concerned with jumping to 3. Raiders took Richardson out to dinner. 

But the Raiders took Anthony out to McDonalds so no worries there

 

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Anyone else gonna laugh when we take the kid out of Purdue at 4?

[csmopar]

Just now, danlhart87 said:

But the Raiders took Anthony out to McDonalds so no worries there

 

Adrian O’Connell or whatever his name is lol