Irsay tweet about QB (MERGE)

[Tsarquise]

10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

From what I remember, he accepted the job quick, without getting all the fine details (not uncommon).

They were trying to lay out all the details, get things signed, and do the welcome/introductions quickly. 

He got back home, and a lot of "stuff" started popping up, that he viewed as diminished control. 

I'm sure BB wanted him to stay, but overall pretty sure he just wanted more control. 

I actually think a HC should control a lot of those things, especially S&C and med/rehab. 

McD is a type A. So is Ballard. Not sure either is pliable. Frank seems pliable. 

 

Here's one of the articles I found on the topic.

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/gm-report/why-mcdaniels-actually-ditched-colts

 

If all these things are true, I am definitely more empathetic and understanding of McDaniels decision to back out. Seeing how things turned out, I'm sure he doesn't regret it. 

[buccolts]

15 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

If all these things are true, I am definitely more empathetic and understanding of McDaniels decision to back out. Seeing how things turned out, I'm sure he doesn't regret it. 

Yeah, well, 'cept the whole part where if control is that important to you then don't agree to coming on board without addressing it, and making that clear.

 

The explanation clarifies, and makes sense, but it doesn't garner any of my sympathy. Especially when this wasn't his first rodeo.

[Tsarquise]

43 minutes ago, buccolts said:

Yeah, well, 'cept the whole part where if control is that important to you then don't agree to coming on board without addressing it, and making that clear.

 

The explanation clarifies, and makes sense, but it doesn't garner any of my sympathy. Especially when this wasn't his first rodeo.

Imagine him not backing out and going through with it, despite his desires and expectations. 

[buccolts]

25 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

Imagine him not backing out and going through with it, despite his desires and expectations. 

He strikes me as the sort of guy that'd do all he could do to get out of it, even after he'd started.

[Superman]

11 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

Could be true. Breer of course is a big Pats guy so who know. As I remember, he was scheduled to fly in the next day as a news conference was set up and he backed out at the last minute. Did he find all this out at the last minute?Breer's story may be true or it could have been a coverup for a bad decision by McDaniels. There was a lot of talk at the time that McDaniels was not to be trusted around the league for future employment. after 4 years he did get another job so it all a mute point.

 

It was post mortem media spin. McDaniels accepted the job, allowed the Colts to announce that he would be the next coach, and then backed out at the last minute. I don't buy for a split second that there were contractual hang-ups that they couldn't work through. He just changed his mind.

 

2 hours ago, buccolts said:

Yeah, well, 'cept the whole part where if control is that important to you then don't agree to coming on board without addressing it, and making that clear.

 

The explanation clarifies, and makes sense, but it doesn't garner any of my sympathy. Especially when this wasn't his first rodeo.

 

Same. Except it doesn't make sense and is obvious crap.

[Coltsfan98]

So of the 12 playoff games only half of them, 6 have had the winning team score 30 or more points and in three of the games neither team scored more then 20 points!

 

Defense still matters!

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Coltsfan98 said:

So of the 12 playoff games only half of them, 6 have had the winning team score 30 or more points and in three of the games neither team scored more then 20 points!

 

Defense still matters!

I could be wrong, but it wasn't a dominant pass rush that was the difference.  It was coverage, or lack thereof (KC BUF), in the secondary.  

 

The popular pass rushers didn't have huge games, IIRC.

 

[Tsarquise]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

It was post mortem media spin. McDaniels accepted the job, allowed the Colts to announce that he would be the next coach, and then backed out at the last minute. I don't buy for a split second that there were contractual hang-ups that they couldn't work through. He just changed his mind.

 

 

Same. Except it doesn't make sense and is obvious crap.

But for what reason? The reason matters.

 

I'm sure he didn't just change it to spite the Colts; if so, he deserves to be shunned with all of the ire in the world. 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

But for what reason? The reason matters.

 

I'm sure he didn't just change it to spite the Colts; if so, he deserves to be shunned with all of the ire in the world. 

 

I don't think the reason matters. This wasn't a preliminary, informal meeting where both sides expressed interest. The Colts interviewed McDaniels early in the process, then shut down their search after a week or so while the Patriots completed their season. We all knew that McDaniels was going to be the guy, it just wasn't official.

 

In that time, McDaniels committed to the Colts, allowed them to proceed with other hirings that he agreed to, agreed to an announcement, and scheduled a press conference. I don't think any "reasons" that came up at the last minute wouldn't have been discussed beforehand. And I don't think the Colts hit him with a bait and switch in the final contract.

 

I think the story that came out two years later -- while McDaniels was trying to get back in the conversation as a potential HC candidate -- was an attempt to rehab his image, soften the harsh view that had been taken of him, and quiet some of the criticism that came up every time he was mentioned as candidate. 

 

It also doesn't fit with what we know about the way the Colts operate. They are not a 'my way or the highway' organization, Ballard is not that kind of GM, and Irsay is not that kind of owner. Ballard is also a thorough, thoughtful decision maker, who wants to build consensus and have everyone on the same page. The idea that major organizational structure questions were left unanswered, and suddenly became an issue at the signing table, doesn't fit with what we know and have seen.

 

All that said, whether he did what he did to spite the Colts, or just changed his mind because it didn't feel right, or whatever, it was irresponsible, and unnecessary, and it left the Colts hanging out to dry. And I think he is solely responsible for the way it went down. Any attempt to reframe the situation as if the Colts were unreasonable, or he wasn't previously aware of the organizational structure, any of that... it's nonsense, IMO. 

[Tsarquise]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think the reason matters. This wasn't a preliminary, informal meeting where both sides expressed interest. The Colts interviewed McDaniels early in the process, then shut down their search after a week or so while the Patriots completed their season. We all knew that McDaniels was going to be the guy, it just wasn't official.

 

In that time, McDaniels committed to the Colts, allowed them to proceed with other hirings that he agreed to, agreed to an announcement, and scheduled a press conference. I don't think any "reasons" that came up at the last minute wouldn't have been discussed beforehand. And I don't think the Colts hit him with a bait and switch in the final contract.

 

I think the story that came out two years later -- while McDaniels was trying to get back in the conversation as a potential HC candidate -- was an attempt to rehab his image, soften the harsh view that had been taken of him, and quiet some of the criticism that came up every time he was mentioned as candidate. 

 

It also doesn't fit with what we know about the way the Colts operate. They are not a 'my way or the highway' organization, Ballard is not that kind of GM, and Irsay is not that kind of owner. Ballard is also a thorough, thoughtful decision maker, who wants to build consensus and have everyone on the same page. The idea that major organizational structure questions were left unanswered, and suddenly became an issue at the signing table, doesn't fit with what we know and have seen.

 

All that said, whether he did what he did to spite the Colts, or just changed his mind because it didn't feel right, or whatever, it was irresponsible, and unnecessary, and it left the Colts hanging out to dry. And I think he is solely responsible for the way it went down. Any attempt to reframe the situation as if the Colts were unreasonable, or he wasn't previously aware of the organizational structure, any of that... it's nonsense, IMO. 

That's fair. You're right. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

A lot of people are talking how just all around this is a bad draft class everywhere. There aren’t a lot of elite players. So that makes a lot of sense why Ballard was willing to give up a one for Wentz. He knew the draft class at all positions was pretty week.

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Coltsfan98 said:

So of the 12 playoff games only half of them, 6 have had the winning team score 30 or more points and in three of the games neither team scored more then 20 points!

 

Defense still matters!

Defense is huge but I think many are just concerned because we only could score 11 points against Jacksonsville. Had we won that game and lost in the playoffs I wouldn't say anything bad about Wentz because our pass D needs to improve bigtime.

[richard pallo]

8 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

A lot of people are talking how just all around this is a bad draft class everywhere. There aren’t a lot of elite players. So that makes a lot of sense why Ballard was willing to give up a one for Wentz. He knew the draft class at all positions was pretty week.

 

 

Maybe we should trade our 2nd rd pick as well and get a starter at one of our positions of need:  WR, TE, CB, S, or ER.  Just a thought.  Poor class and it’s a crapshoot anyway.

[NewColtsFan]

14 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

A lot of people are talking how just all around this is a bad draft class everywhere. There aren’t a lot of elite players. So that makes a lot of sense why Ballard was willing to give up a one for Wentz. He knew the draft class at all positions was pretty week.

 

 

Not what I’m reading at all. 
 

QB and RB are not good classes.   But I’m reading most other positions are pretty strong.   So it may not be a sexy class,  I think it’s a solid class.  That’s what I’m reading.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Maybe we should trade our 2nd rd pick as well and get a starter at one of our positions of need:  WR, TE, CB, S, or ER.  Just a thought.  Poor class and it’s a crapshoot anyway.

Seems like Strong is starting the senior bowl off well. Maybe a chance to trade that second to move up for a QB..

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Not what I’m reading at all. 
 

QB and RB are not good classes.   But I’m reading most other positions are pretty strong.   So it may not be a sexy class,  I think it’s a solid class.  That’s what I’m reading.  

I think he is just saying there aren’t really a lot of elite players that are worth a 1st round pick.

[Coltsfan98]

18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Defense is huge but I think many are just concerned because we only could score 11 points against Jacksonsville. Had we won that game and lost in the playoffs I wouldn't say anything bad about Wentz because our pass D needs to improve bigtime.

Well we would have scored more if JT wasn't stuffed at the goal line too. That last game was brutal but every player had a hand in it. There's really no excuses why they lost that game. It was a giant turd!

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Coltsfan98 said:

Well we would have scored more if JT wasn't stuffed at the goal line too. That last game was brutal but every player had a hand in it. There's really no excuses why they lost that game. It was a giant turd!

Yes it was a turd  - I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Seems like Strong is starting the senior bowl off well. Maybe a chance to trade that second to move up for a QB..

I think he is just saying there aren’t really a lot of elite players that are worth a 1st round pick.

That may or may not be his view.   But I don’t know him well,  if at all.    Always concerned about newcomers to covering the draft. 

[EastStreet]

10 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

If all these things are true, I am definitely more empathetic and understanding of McDaniels decision to back out. Seeing how things turned out, I'm sure he doesn't regret it. 

 

I was ticked off at first, but it didn't last long. I have friends that are Pats friends, so got the down low early and often when it all was going down. They all were saying similar and that it was more about control of certain things (just no detail). It's not really hard to believe. Not saying either model is correct, or incorrect, but I can certainly understand why a HC would want to control certain things, especially after being raised by BB. 

[Tsarquise]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I was ticked off at first, but it didn't last long. I have friends that are Pats friends, so got the down low early and often when it all was going down. They all were saying similar and that it was more about control of certain things (just no detail). It's not really hard to believe. Not saying either model is correct, or incorrect, but I can certainly understand why a HC would want to control certain things, especially after being raised by BB. 

I can also relate how ambivalent one can feel about things, especially about a big decision such as this. I think it is ridiculous, but at the same time, understand. 

 

I guess, once again, I feel ambivalent myself on the matter lol. 

[EastStreet]

46 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

I can also relate how ambivalent one can feel about things, especially about a big decision such as this. I think it is ridiculous, but at the same time, understand. 

 

I guess, once again, I feel ambivalent myself on the matter lol. 

 

I was happy with McD being hired. Not like super stoked, but pretty happy given he was in-demand. Indifferent when he backed out. Knowing Reich was a plan D, and given his track record in LAC and non-play calling status in Philly, I just wasn't wowed. A lot of guys got hired/promoted that year (to HC), and he was the best of what was left I guess. I don't get wow'd much until we see the fruits on the field. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Maniac53]

2 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

 

Dang Rumors, just me FACTS!!  Kidding!!

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

 

 

So many teams will be connected to Rodgers and Wilson... Rumor mill will spend fast and for a while... 

In one of my earlier posts WFT was among a small group I said would likely be connected with RW, and one where he might have mutual interest. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If you don’t want Jimmy G don’t read this lol. Seems we might of wanted him in the Buckner trade.

 

 

[richard pallo]

10 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

If you don’t want Jimmy G don’t read this lol. Seems we might of wanted him in the Buckner trade.

 

 

Well after the way the season ended you would have to think his name would be brought up.  Especially after reading this report.  Could Lynch and Ballard do another one?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Well after the way the season ended you would have to think his name would be brought up.  Especially after reading this report.  Could Lynch and Ballard do another one?

I will laugh at the fools who want him

 gone if this happens because he will light it up in Tampa with all those weapons. Ballard and Reich should be fired. Jimmy does some thing better while Carson does some things better then jimmy. It’s a lateral trade that doesn’t improve the team.

 

I seriously will be done with colts if. Might as well not even get a better wide receivers because they won’t be used.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

On top of that Jimmy will get a extension. Ballard and Reich would be fools go give him a extension.

[Fisticuffs111]

2 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

I will laugh at the fools who want him

 gone if this happens because he will light it up in Tampa with all those weapons. Ballard and Reich should be fired. Jimmy does some thing better while Carson does some things better then jimmy. It’s a lateral trade that doesn’t improve the team.

 

I seriously will be done with colts if. Might as well not even get a better wide receivers because they won’t be used.

I remember the Jimmy G/Colts stuff, that came out right after the trade.
 

Doubt they’re gonna seriously consider him again. I can’t help but think you’re getting worked up over nothing.

 

 

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

I will laugh at the fools who want him

 gone if this happens because he will light it up in Tampa with all those weapons. Ballard and Reich should be fired. Jimmy does some thing better while Carson does some things better then jimmy. It’s a lateral trade that doesn’t improve the team.

 

I seriously will be done with colts if. Might as well not even get a better wide receivers because they won’t be used.

That would be wild.  We get Jimmy G and we ship Wentz to Ariens and the Bucs.  That would be a hoot. Lol.  There are so many places where he could wind up.  Read some thoughts on Pittsburg recently.  Anybody’s guess.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I remember the Jimmy G/Colts stuff, that came out right after the trade.
 

Doubt they’re gonna seriously consider him again. I can’t help but think you’re getting worked up over nothing.

 

 

I hope so. I just don’t trust Irsay or Ballard right now. I do think they could be done with band aids and are now going to go all in with some Rome in the draft next two years and keep Wentz.

 

Ir would of been a good move if that was part of the Buckner trade then. Not now.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

That would be wild.  We get Jimmy G and we ship Wentz to Ariens and the Bucs.  That would be a hoot. Lol.  There are so many places where he could wind up.  Read some thoughts on Pittsburg recently.  Anybody’s guess.

Steelers don’t usually use FA for QB. They will probably go all in on someone like Willis. I just don’t know if he will start right away.

 

It wouldn’t be funny to me because I think Carson would make Ballard look like a fool and play well.

 

With Jimmy’s injury history it would just be silly. He is having shoulder surgery. Hopes his hand heals so he doesn’t need surgury.  I know he was limited in the playoffs because of those but he is never going to throw part 15 yards.

[Aaron86]

On 1/25/2022 at 4:23 PM, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

It’s not the same thing. 

I really dont think Irsay wants to pay basically another Wentz 28 mil and pay Wentz 15mill. 43 million tied up in two very very average QBs and be further from your end goal. Nope dont see that one happening. But I have been wrong before.

[GoColts8818]

Jimmy G’s rep has changed since the Buckner trade and not for the better.  They already have a Jimmy G so I don’t think they will trade for him but I could be wrong.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Jimmy G’s rep has changed since the Buckner trade and not for the better.  They already have a Jimmy G so I don’t think they will trade for him but I could be wrong.

It’s a wash. Jimmy does some things better then Carson. But Carson does some things better then Jimmy.

11 minutes ago, Aaron86 said:

I really dont think Irsay wants to pay basically another Wentz 28 mil and pay Wentz 15mill. 43 million tied up in two very very average QBs and be further from your end goal. Nope dont see that one happening. But I have been wrong before.

Unless there really is a trade market for Wentz. I don’t see it.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I was listening to Kevin Bowen this morning and that man can't stand Wentz by the way he talks  . He said he would take Jimmy G over Wentz.

[richard pallo]

11 minutes ago, Aaron86 said:

I really dont think Irsay wants to pay basically another Wentz 28 mil and pay Wentz 15mill. 43 million tied up in two very very average QBs and be further from your end goal. Nope dont see that one happening. But I have been wrong before.

I can’t remember the numbers but Ballard gave Brisett a pretty rich two year contract a few years back.  That shocked me at the time.  So I wouldn’t be surprised at all on what possibly could go down.  It’s like they’re using Monopoly money.  It’s crazy.

[GoColts8818]

25 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I was listening to Kevin Bowen this morning and that man can't stand Wentz by the way he talks  . He said he would take Jimmy G over Wentz.

Well in fairness Jimmy G gets deep into the playoffs and flames out Wentz flames out before he get there lol.

[Four2itus]

The games Carson won with his magic.....Jimmy G does not likely win. The games where we lost because Carson didn't make the layups?....Jimmy G might very well have won. Seems like kind of a trade off to me. Let's dance with the one we came to the dance with.