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Does Carson Wentz Need a Signature Win to Become an Elite QB?


philba101

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On 11/12/2021 at 8:33 PM, jvan1973 said:

I hear you.   What if he has a monster game against against those teams,  but the Colts lose?    Football is a team game.   Even Peyton couldn't cover up our D at times.   The team needs to play well to win.    Get JT the ball .  He is our best playmaker 

Yeah the D is a huge part of things. It is tough to win when your D is getting shredded week in and week out. When Eli won his 2 SB's that D.Line dominated.

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For Wentz to truly re-enter the conversation of being considered an elite QB, I think he would have to play near flawless football in leading the Colts to a 7-1 stretch or better in leading the Colts to the playoffs.  Then play great in leading the Colts to 2 playoff wins getting them in as a surprise entry into the conference championship game.  Only then do I think that Wentz’s name will be uttered by the talking heads around the league as a once again elite QB.

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I would consider a QB elite when he can will his team to win games that the team otherwise really shouldn't and the ability to be able to come back from most deficits while the other team knows it. Manning made a career on that. Luck was damn good at that too. Wentz hasn't done that yet here, but perhaps that becomes a thing when he gets more established after a season. Right now he is playing really good ball.

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On 11/12/2021 at 6:29 PM, jvan1973 said:

Define signature wins?    

Beating a good team when the game is on the line where it is obvious that his play is what lifts the team to a victory. I have seen Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes do this over and over again. I have not seen Wentz do this as a Colt. I have seen him manage games, I have seen him feast on weaker competition, and I have seen him struggle against pressure. I have not seen him put this team on his back and carry them to a win against strong competition. The hope for the Colts is that the team plays well enough that Wentz won't have to do this very often. The question is, can he do this if the game situation calls for it?

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Yes, he does. This is a good thread. I've seen way too many people on here saying Wentz is clearly the QB of the future as we're beating the breaks off some terrible team like the Texans or the Jets.

 

He's proven nothing yet and despite his decent overall play and numbers, he still makes absolutely horrendous decisions and risky plays that can simply lose you a game at any moment. 

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23 hours ago, colts89 said:

I would consider a QB elite when he can will his team to win games that the team otherwise really shouldn't and the ability to be able to come back from most deficits while the other team knows it. Manning made a career on that. Luck was damn good at that too. Wentz hasn't done that yet here, but perhaps that becomes a thing when he gets more established after a season. Right now he is playing really good ball.

I think that is a fair assessment.

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On 11/12/2021 at 6:29 PM, IrsaysArmy said:

The good thing is that he doesn’t even need to be elite. Run the ball, convert some big 3rd downs and cash in when in the red zone and he’ll win plenty.

That may be good enough for the Colts to win some games against inferior opponents, but is that good enough to make the Colts a contender either now or going forward?

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3 minutes ago, NDWentzFan said:

Doesn't Wentz have a number of "signature wins" just not with the Colts?   I mean I am sure he beat good teams in 2017 right?  Are we just looking at him on the Colts? 

I can think of one big one when they went into Lambeau Field and beat the favored Packers 

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23 hours ago, CoachLite said:

I'm not sure Carson Wentz knows how good he can be, yet. How can anyone expect us fans to know?

He doesn't have an extensive body of work as a Colt for sure...but he does as a player. I think he can be measured by those things.

 

2 minutes ago, MPStack said:

I can’t wait until Wentz has a reliable #2. 

Reliable number 2 QB or receiver?

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1 minute ago, NodakColt said:

I can think of one big one when they went into Lambeau Field and beat the favored Packers 

 

 

Just looked at the schedule that year 2017 when he was going to be MVP.  He beat the Rams in LA, Cowboys in Dallas, and the Panthers in Carolina.    Rams and Panthers ended the season both 11-5  Cowboys I think were either 10-6 or 9-7

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On 11/13/2021 at 10:13 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah the D is a huge part of things. It is tough to win when your D is getting shredded week in and week out. When Eli won his 2 SB's that D.Line dominated.

No doubt, we may be limited as a team unless the D can be more consistently competitive. But, I saw Manning cover for our poor D many times, I have seen Rodgers and Brady do this as well. Is Wentz that type of QB? If not, does he have definite ceiling for how far he can carry this team?

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On 11/12/2021 at 8:18 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Categories:

Great/Elite

 

Very Good

 

Good - I put Wentz here, he has played good this season for the most part.

 

Above Average

 

Average

 

Below Average

 

Bad

 

To me a signature win would be at Buffalo or beating the Bucs. Even if he does that my status of him would still remain at good. He needs a deep playoff run to jump up to very good, JMO. A SB win would put him up there in the great/elite status if he has the stats to go with it. Eli and Flacco both won SB's but I never thought of them as great/elite, more goes into it. Eli will make the HOFame because his teams beat the Pats twice in the SB, Flacco won't even sniff the HOFame but Flacco IMO has had a decent career.

Good points. I would not consider Eli or Flacco as elite either, although they both played quite well in their runs to a Super Bowl. I am pretty sure no one would consider Nick Foles as elite either and he was able to play at a high enough level for a short stretch and lead his team to a Super Bowl win. Do you believe Wentz has the intangibles to be that type of guy?

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8 minutes ago, NDWentzFan said:

In 2019 second last game of the season he beat Dallas which was a playoff play-in game.  Dallas finished 8-8 and Eagles finished 9-7

does that make him elite?  personally i said any qb needs more than just one, but this thread is going in circles over what a signature win means

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2 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

does that make him elite?  personally i said any qb needs more than just one, but this thread is going in circles over what a signature win means

 

 

Two posts above I posted 3 more big road wins against playoff teams in 2017.   So how many are you looking for exactly?  I am not saying he is elite at all but I am not saying he doesn't have any "signature" wins in his career. 

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4 minutes ago, NDWentzFan said:

 

 

Two posts above I posted 3 more big road wins against playoff teams in 2017.   So how many are you looking for exactly?  I am not saying he is elite at all but I am not saying he doesn't have any "signature" wins in his career. 

I think those are good examples.

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36 minutes ago, NDWentzFan said:

 

 

Just looked at the schedule that year 2017 when he was going to be MVP.  He beat the Rams in LA, Cowboys in Dallas, and the Panthers in Carolina.    Rams and Panthers ended the season both 11-5  Cowboys I think were either 10-6 or 9-7

The reason I remember the Packer game is because I was on the road and had to watch it on my iPad 

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1 hour ago, NDWentzFan said:

So how many are you looking for exactly? 

i think we are looking for some with the colts tbh. 

 

you could say he has signature wins elsewhere but he doesnt here and its a big reach to say his play on the field has been elite in these 10 games.  i have not seen anyone call him elite based on 2021

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2 hours ago, philba101 said:

Good points. I would not consider Eli or Flacco as elite either, although they both played quite well in their runs to a Super Bowl. I am pretty sure no one would consider Nick Foles as elite either and he was able to play at a high enough level for a short stretch and lead his team to a Super Bowl win. Do you believe Wentz has the intangibles to be that type of guy?

Through 10 games I am sold on Wentz. We are 5-5 and really should be 7-3 + he has put up good numbers. By the eye test he has even looked good. In order for Wentz to have deep playoff runs we need to improve the D though. Wentz can only do so much, even Peyton needed his defense to step up to win a couple of SB's.

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28 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

i think we are looking for some with the colts tbh. 

 

you could say he has signature wins elsewhere but he doesnt here and its a big reach to say his play on the field has been elite in these 10 games.  i have not seen anyone call him elite based on 2021


He’s top 10ish with a less than stellar WR group. Signature wins will come, but not this season. Wentz gets better when the supporting cast gets better. Pittman is the only reliable pass receiver on the Colts. I like what I’ve seen so far and so should everyone else.

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19 minutes ago, MPStack said:


He’s top 10ish with a less than stellar WR group. Signature wins will come, but not this season. Wentz gets better when the supporting cast gets better. Pittman is the only reliable pass receiver on the Colts. I like what I’ve seen so far and so should everyone else.

The thread was asking if he is elite,  id say no pretty comfortably.  he has been decent but that wasnt the question 

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6 hours ago, philba101 said:

Beating a good team when the game is on the line where it is obvious that his play is what lifts the team to a victory. I have seen Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes do this over and over again. I have not seen Wentz do this as a Colt. I have seen him manage games, I have seen him feast on weaker competition, and I have seen him struggle against pressure. I have not seen him put this team on his back and carry them to a win against strong competition. The hope for the Colts is that the team plays well enough that Wentz won't have to do this very often. The question is, can he do this if the game situation calls for it?

I think this is a fair assessment.  Wentz hasn’t willed us to a win yet. I also hope he doesn’t have to do that often.  Here’s to hoping to for some wins against the next few teams.

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