Doesn't Peyton struggle against 3-4 defenses?

[bap1331]

Maybe there was a secret behind going to a 3-4 defense and Peyton's struggles against them? lol

Wouldnt that mean he would struggle against the Colts????

Im just saying because we struggled against the Chargers every year, remember?

[21isSuperman]

He used to struggle against them early on, but as more and more teams began using them and he got more tape/experience, he has actually done pretty well against them. It's a common misconception that Peyton struggled with 3-4 defenses. He did at first, but in the last few years, he has gotten pretty good at figuring them out. He has more trouble with certain coordinators, like Rivera and Crennel. It just so happens that those guys run the 3-4, but he has done well against the 3-4 many times in the past

[WSO]

heres a good article on it

http://espn.go.com/b...4-base-defenses

I think its really become an issue only because playoff losses against 3-4 defenses vs the Chargers x2, Steelers x1, Patriots x2, Jets x1

Keep in mind he actually played well in some of these losses like the Jets last year and the Chargers despite 2 picks (one right off Kenton Keiths hands) and in another game that went to OT.

But this guy has shredded some 3-4 defenses before like mentioned in the article. On the way to the SB he played really well against the Jets and Ravens. I agree with 21isSuperman that he has gotten better against them most recently

[CR91]

rex ryan has always ran the 3-4 and he always killed him. it has more to do with coordinators like crennel's defense

[21isSuperman]

heres a good article on it

http://espn.go.com/b...4-base-defenses

I think its really become an issue only because playoff losses against 3-4 defenses vs the Chargers x2, Steelers x1, Patriots x2, Jets x1

Keep in mind he actually played well in some of these losses like the Jets last year and the Chargers despite 2 picks (one right off Kenton Keiths hands) and in another game that went to OT.

But this guy has shredded some 3-4 defenses before like mentioned in the article. On the way to the SB he played really well against the Jets and Ravens. I agree with 21isSuperman that he has gotten better against them most recently

Yeah, Peyton has a history of beating the Ravens D and they've been a 3-4 team for a while now.

[shakedownstreet]

Yeah, Peyton has a history of beating the Ravens D and they've been a 3-4 team for a while now.

i can't even remember peyton losing to the ravens... ever.

[21isSuperman]

i can't even remember losing to the ravens... ever.

Every time we play them, it's "This is payback for taking our team. Ray Lewis has studied extra and is motivated. This is our turn to win". Then the Colts win, Peyton shreds their defense, and the world continues

[Moncrief]

^ in a nutshell

[Jules]

He used to struggle against them early on, but as more and more teams began using them and he got more tape/experience, he has actually done pretty well against them. It's a common misconception that Peyton struggled with 3-4 defenses. He did at first, but in the last few years, he has gotten pretty good at figuring them out. He has more trouble with certain coordinators, like Rivera and Crennel. It just so happens that those guys run the 3-4, but he has done well against the 3-4 many times in the past

His numbers vs. Crennel no matter what team he is coaching are not good. Chiefs vs. Broncos twice next year will be interesting.

Crennel needled Aaron Rodgers pretty good this past season too. I kinda got flashbacks. The Pack offense was banged up on the line and with Jennings out, but he had Aaron confused a lot and ruined the timing for their offense.

[CCH]

I think I remember reading somewhere that Manning, Brady and Brees don't do as well against the 3-4 as the traditional 4-3 defense. It's not a huge difference but it's there. Manning did struggle against the Chargers 3-4 defense throughout his career but constantly torched the Ravens 3-4 defense so who knows.

[ReMeDy]

Every time we play them, it's "This is payback for taking our team. Ray Lewis has studied extra and is motivated. This is our turn to win". Then the Colts win, Peyton shreds their defense, and the world continues

And that's why, ironically, Ray Lewis ended up vouching for Manning in the league's "top 10 players" video. Ray Lewis knows what it takes to win and the amount of preparation Manning must put into the game. Lewis is probably wondering why the rest of his team doesn't put in the same effort that he and Manning does!

[fvantagio]

yeah...like 6 years ago. lol Since then he has beaten the Pats more often then not, beaten the ravens every time. When he played the Jets he would call it a night early cause he knew he would have no problem, while Ryan was up all night trying to figure out complex plays to stop him. Which would take Manning a grand total of 2 drives to figure out.

Present day Peyton doesnt struggle against a specific type of D. Defenses struggle against Peyton.

[ruksak]

Every time we play them, it's "This is payback for taking our team. Ray Lewis has studied extra and is motivated. This is our turn to win". Then the Colts win, Peyton shreds their defense, and the world continues

Yes, shredding them for 5 FG's. Quarterback awesomeness.

[MEAT]

Honest question.

Has Luck ever even played against a 3-4.... Could be a rude awakening.

[21isSuperman]

Yes, shredding them for 5 FG's. Quarterback awesomeness.

Manning actually had a brutal game against them, going 15/30 for 170 yards and 2 INTs. Regardless, he still has made a habit of beating the Ravens

[WSO]

Honest question.

Has Luck ever even played against a 3-4.... Could be a rude awakening.

yes I know off the top of my head Cal has run the 3-4 for a few seasons

he lost to Cal his rookie season but absolutely torched the next year and I know Cameron Jordan the Saints 1st rd pick from last year played DE for Cal

[Jay305]

He used to struggle against them early on, but as more and more teams began using them and he got more tape/experience, he has actually done pretty well against them. It's a common misconception that Peyton struggled with 3-4 defenses. He did at first, but in the last few years, he has gotten pretty good at figuring them out. He has more trouble with certain coordinators, like Rivera and Crennel. It just so happens that those guys run the 3-4, but he has done well against the 3-4 many times in the past

Can we just close this thread with this answer?

[pacolts56]

yes I know off the top of my head Cal has run the 3-4 for a few seasons

he lost to Cal his rookie season but absolutely torched the next year and I know Cameron Jordan the Saints 1st rd pick from last year played DE for Cal

Yep....Cal is a 3-4 D and they have two good guys coming out in this draft.... ILB Mychal Kendricks and DE Trevor Guyton.

I'd be happy with either of them.

[David Wagner]

The colts and manning struggled against the 34 defense because of their pass protection and the fact they did not have an answer for what is called the x cross blitz where both inside linebacker cross paths in an x. the nose guard takes on A gap and the guard to that side helps but does not see the linebacker coming. teams who face the steelers (who run this blitz with their inside linebackers to perfection) will practice all offseason to stop it in mini camps. Manning was excellent with outside pressure because he could step up. however, he like most qbs do not like pressure in their face. they look down, they have to throw hot, and they know they are going to get hit.

[GoColts8818]

i can't even remember peyton losing to the ravens... ever.

The year after the ravens super bowl also Peyton's rookie year all three times we had losing seasons while peyton was on the roster we lost to the ravens. Kinda strange how that worked out.

[jjcolts]

heres a good article on it

http://espn.go.com/b...4-base-defenses

I think its really become an issue only because playoff losses against 3-4 defenses vs the Chargers x2, Steelers x1, Patriots x2, Jets x1

Keep in mind he actually played well in some of these losses like the Jets last year and the Chargers despite 2 picks (one right off Kenton Keiths hands) and in another game that went to OT.

But this guy has shredded some 3-4 defenses before like mentioned in the article. On the way to the SB he played really well against the Jets and Ravens. I agree with 21isSuperman that he has gotten better against them most recently

GEEZUZ!! I forgot about Kenton Keith....as I read that I just saw flash backs of that last play. I remember thinking...that can't be it.....

[CR91]

i kinda find it surprising peyton would go to a team with the chargers that have given him fits and the chiefs with crennel who always seems to be able to show peyton down.

[Tony Sullivan]

I found when d's prowled guys at the line was where Peyton struggled the most

[chad72]

His numbers vs. Crennel no matter what team he is coaching are not good. Chiefs vs. Broncos twice next year will be interesting.

Crennel needled Aaron Rodgers pretty good this past season too. I kinda got flashbacks. The Pack offense was banged up on the line and with Jennings out, but he had Aaron confused a lot and ruined the timing for their offense.

Gotta run the ball vs Crennel's Ds. Patriots can run and play good ST, so that helps a lot vs the Chiefs. That is where the Denver ensemble will be more favorable, an O-line that can run the ball better than his Colts years. Crennel would just sit back and play coverage doubling 3 WRs (which may or may not include TE) every possession and we could not run vs their front 3 or 4 with our O-line of 5. A lot of teams now play 3-3-5 vs passing teams, ala Gregg Williams from the Saints' SB. Crennel is no different. We know how less than stellar the Packers' running game is, and sometimes, that can be the case with the Saints too because they have QBs that wing it. Eli, on the other hand, even if he can wing it, will not wing it, and Giants have controlled games and the tempo purely with their run game when they had success in the playoffs, winning TOP considerably. That is where Eli's advantage lies, IMO.

With the Chargers, here is the story in a nutshell. Teams that beat the Chargers normally run well on them. Peyton Manning, with his lousy run blocking O-line with the Colts, did not have the plan B he could resort to that Brady could when the passing game was not working in the 2007 AFCCG. So, Merriman and Philips, and whoever played OLB, could just tee in on the pass, play pass rush and not worry about stopping the run, even in red zone situations. They knew the front 5 O-linemen could not run vs their D-line front four, and the reliance on Manning's arm more and more made the Colts predictable.

The Chargers team, when they went against balanced teams like the Steelers or Patriots or even run oriented teams like the Jets, have always had issues. Manning, when he went on the SB run, his O-line could do something in that 2006 playoffs that it could not in all the years past - run vs the Chiefs, run vs the Ravens, run vs the Patriots, and run vs the Bears (and stop the run in all those games too ). That was the SB win in a nutshell. We all know how much Terrell Davis helped Elway.

If the run game works, and Manning knows it will work, he will gladly check down to a run play. Colts fans like me hated the fact that our runs went for 1 or 2 yards in critical situations but that will not be the case with the Denver O-line. That is where the critical difference will lie, IMO. The O-line will have to do more with the success of a balanced offense in Denver than Peyton by himself.

Let us take games since the 2004 49th TD pass game for Peyton vs Chargers.

In the 2 games that the Colts won above (2004 & 2008 regular season), the Colts rushed for 104 yards and 91 yards.

Wins:

2004 - 104 yards on 25 attempts

2008 - 91 yards on 23 attempts

Both wins - close to 4 yards per carry

Losses:

2005 - 24 yards on 15 attempts

2007 (regular season) - 75 yards on 26 attempts

2007 (playoffs) - 44 yards on 18 attempts

2008 (playoffs) - 56 yards on 20 attempts

2010 (regular season) - 24 yards on 13 attempts

All of them less than 3 YPC

[chad72]

I found when d's prowled guys at the line was where Peyton struggled the most

That is because our O-line was not feared as one that would give Peyton lots of time where as with Brady's O-line, the Pats go max protect and 6-Olinemen several times to offset that, something the Colts did not do as much. Thus, if they get picked up by the Pats O-line, the O-line does not let go as easily and Brady picks that apart.

Besides, how many times have you seen Brady go empty backfield when compared to Peyton. WAY MORE!!! Just shows the confidence in the O-line too.

[Tony Sullivan]

That is because our O-line was not feared as one that would give Peyton lots of time where as with Brady's O-line, the Pats go max protect and 6-Olinemen several times to offset that, something the Colts did not do as much. Thus, if they get picked up by the Pats O-line, the O-line does not let go as easily and Brady picks that apart.

Besides, how many times have you seen Brady go empty backfield when compared to Peyton. WAY MORE!!! Just shows the confidence in the O-line too.

Who cares about Brady, we're talking about Manning

[chad72]

Who cares about Brady, we're talking about Manning

Duh, I know that!!! I am just contrasting to make a point about O-lines while combating those D strategies. I am surprised you did not get that and chose to focus on the Brady name exclusively.

A lot of those "amoeba" looks, with guys moving around the line of scrimmage or playing stand up, have been played by Rob Ryan and other DCs, Peyton has gone no huddle to combat that kind of movement or when the run was working, run the ball. But one cannot go no huddle every single time, and one needs to be able to run a lot of times to slow down those guys rushing from the outside from playing pass all the time, a luxury Peyton's O-line did not give him, the running part against good Ds. That was my point.

Plus, I also believe, when the Chargers had Jammer and Cromartie in their prime, those man corners plus Shaun Philips and Merriman as OLBs in their prime was a double whammy for our passing offense and made it tougher, so Peyton had to take some chances. Our O-line could not successfully keep those guys from penetration to stop runs for negative yardage as well, that led to us relying on the pass more even if it meant going strength vs strength (our pass O vs Chargers' pass D).