Another way to look at this.....

[MikeCurtis]

A month ago,

The Colts were generally known and spoken of as a top 5 Offensive Line in the NFL

This is WITHOUT a Left Tackle Defined

 

A month ago,

The Colts had lost 2 starters on an average Defensive Line. (We climb to "average" because of Buckner)

We lost FORTY % of last years sacks

The DE group was easily bottom 5

 

Today we have a chance of our Defensive line to move to a top 10 Unit.  

 

Do I wish that we had our LT in the draft, of course.  But the board doesnt always fall like you want

 

Some of the OTs picked ahead of us might have ONLY been viewed as Right Tackle

 

Why trade up for a player that doesnt actually fill the hole needed?............ For the fans?

 

Maybe the trade cost was just too high from the teams in front of us......

Remember, without a 3rd and without a 1 or 2nd next year we had much less trade value

 

Today

We have the money to get a LT. Villinueva (Sp?)  or Fisher,

 

There will also be other aging LTs that get cut or will be available for trade 

 

We DID strengthen one of the weakest areas of the team

 

We will be OK

 

 

[DougDew]

Its all good to me.  I think both players will play well.

 

I think the frustration shown here is compounded by Dayo having a serious injury, making him an unknown quantity, and Paye being an incomplete football player taken at 21.

 

Both players are not unlike the three second round players we recently drafted to play DE, whom these two are no doubt planned to take playing time from.  Will we have to do this again 2 or 3 years later if we keep focusing on upside?

 

Compounded by the fact that many of us thought that Lewis, Turay, and Benagu were reaches in the first place. 

 

[427HR]

18 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

A month ago,

The Colts were generally known and spoken of as a top 5 Offensive Line in the NFL

This is WITHOUT a Left Tackle Defined

 

A month ago,

The Colts had lost 2 starters on an average Defensive Line. (We climb to "average" because of Buckner)

We lost FORTY % of last years sacks

The DE group was easily bottom 5

 

Today we have a chance of our Defensive line to move to a top 10 Unit.  

 

Do I wish that we had our LT in the draft, of course.  But the board doesnt always fall like you want

 

Some of the OTs picked ahead of us might have ONLY been viewed as Right Tackle

 

Why trade up for a player that doesnt actually fill the hole needed?............ For the fans?

 

Maybe the trade cost was just too high from the teams in front of us......

Remember, without a 3rd and without a 1 or 2nd next year we had much less trade value

 

Today

We have the money to get a LT. Villinueva (Sp?)  or Fisher,

 

There will also be other aging LTs that get cut or will be available for trade 

 

We DID strengthen one of the weakest areas of the team

 

We will be OK

 

    I agree well said,, i do believe in Ballard.. The start of the season is still a ways off,, the LT position will be addressed!!

 

[cdgacoltsfan]

The bad news is that not one of Ballards defensive line draft picks are difference makers. Not one. Our best defensive lineman are/were Buckner (TRADE) and Autry (F/A)

Ballard and his scouts are not good at drafting defensive linemen.

[austriancolt]

I disagree and think it is a mistake not adressing the LT spot adequately in free agency or the draft. Reminds me a lot of the Grigson days, where the Colts tried to protect their young franchise QB with some cheap backups and a lot of hope that some projects turn into pro bowlers. We all know how that ended. Tevi and Davenport with all respect are backups that you can throw in for a snap or two but you don't want them to be your starter. And the other options out there? Eric Fisher had a serious injury. Okung only played in 13 games over the past two years thank to injuries. And we missed out on every good Tackle in the draft. Even if you think most of them are just RT it would have allowed us to put Smith on the LT spot and play the rookie at RT and leave Nelson on the LG spot that worked out well so far.  By the way invest some high draft picks in OL turned a bad Colts Offensive Line in an elite one. Nelson (1st), Kelly (1st), Smith (2nd) are the reason things changed. And it changed because the Colts were willing to invest high picks in their Line. 

 

Not doing much in free agency, doing nothing so far in the draft while your franchise LT Castonzo retired is a risky move that could blow up in Ballards face if Wentz get hurt or the Offensive Line struggles. 

[Colt Overseas]

I think Ballard is following the 2019 49ers D-line template.

 

He is building a very similar type line:

49ers / Colts

RDE: Bosa / Paye

3T: Buckner / Buckner

LDE: Armstrong / Odeyingbo

NT: Jones / Steward

Speed Rusher: Ford / Turay

Tweener: Day / Lewis

 

We have a lot of similar type players to their 2019 d-line. Ok you can argue they have more talent, they had 4 first round picks on the DL after all, but there is a comparison in the type of skillset.

 

I think that is what Ballard wants. 8-9 different DL players in rotation all with different tools and skill sets. Create matchup nightmares on 3rd down.

 

And this was a weakness last season, no doubt.

[DougDew]

BTW, I'm not considered a draft expert so no one should care, but when I started looking for replacements for Autry back in December since I thought drafting one was likely (and that he wasn't going to be resigned) Dayo jumped out at me.  He was my first choice, but I wasn't really in draft prep mode.

 

IOW, he's the same player as, but better than, Payton Turner, who is a familiar name on this board.

[MikeCurtis]

7 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

The bad news is that not one of Ballards defensive line draft picks are difference makers. Not one. Our best defensive lineman are/were Buckner (TRADE) and Autry (F/A)

Ballard and his scouts are not good at drafting defensive linemen.

You make a great point, but what is the alternative?

 

Stop drafting DEs?

 

That doesn't make sense to me

 

EVERY draft pick is unknown

 

The best NFL teams have made mistakes on drafting

 

Ballard is known to be one of the best in the business at picking draft talent

 

We had a HUGE hole, and an attempt was made to fill it.

 

He will hit at some time...... you learn from your mistakes, and you take another swing with the club

 

The ball might go in the water (the way I golf) or it might go on the green

 

But you HAVE to keep swinging the club......

 

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

34 minutes ago, austriancolt said:

I disagree and think it is a mistake not adressing the LT spot adequately in free agency or the draft. Reminds me a lot of the Grigson days, where the Colts tried to protect their young franchise QB with some cheap backups and a lot of hope that some projects turn into pro bowlers. We all know how that ended. Tevi and Davenport with all respect are backups that you can throw in for a snap or two but you don't want them to be your starter. And the other options out there? Eric Fisher had a serious injury. Okung only played in 13 games over the past two years thank to injuries. And we missed out on every good Tackle in the draft. Even if you think most of them are just RT it would have allowed us to put Smith on the LT spot and play the rookie at RT and leave Nelson on the LG spot that worked out well so far.  By the way invest some high draft picks in OL turned a bad Colts Offensive Line in an elite one. Nelson (1st), Kelly (1st), Smith (2nd) are the reason things changed. 

 

Not doing much in free agency, doing nothing so far in the draft while your franchise LT Castonzo retired is a risky move that could blow up in Ballards face if Wentz get hurt or the Offensive Line struggles. 

I hear what you are saying...... And, I agree that you have a point

 

But,

 

Using your logic, knowing that this was a deep OT class, I personally was more looking for getting a DE in FA, 

RATHER than an OT

 

But consider that WE really dont know what you will need until AFTER the Draft

 

First off, the money is limited....

 

If we would have spent big FA money on LT BEFORE the draft, and then missed DURING the draft  

at DE, we would be up the creek, without cash to fix the situation

 

If we would have spent the big FA money on DE BEFORE the draft and missed DURING the draft

at OT, we would be up the creek without cash to fix the situation

 

Being patient gives the Colts options

 

And, today the DE draft for the Colts APPEARS to fill a major hole

 

We CAN still get an adequate LT in FA

 

I personally expect a call to Fisher is already in play

 

 

 

 

 

 

[w87r]

1 hour ago, austriancolt said:

I disagree and think it is a mistake not adressing the LT spot adequately in free agency or the draft. Reminds me a lot of the Grigson days, where the Colts tried to protect their young franchise QB with some cheap backups and a lot of hope that some projects turn into pro bowlers. We all know how that ended. Tevi and Davenport with all respect are backups that you can throw in for a snap or two but you don't want them to be your starter. And the other options out there? Eric Fisher had a serious injury. Okung only played in 13 games over the past two years thank to injuries. And we missed out on every good Tackle in the draft. Even if you think most of them are just RT it would have allowed us to put Smith on the LT spot and play the rookie at RT and leave Nelson on the LG spot that worked out well so far.  By the way invest some high draft picks in OL turned a bad Colts Offensive Line in an elite one. Nelson (1st), Kelly (1st), Smith (2nd) are the reason things changed. And it changed because the Colts were willing to invest high picks in their Line. 

 

Not doing much in free agency, doing nothing so far in the draft while your franchise LT Castonzo retired is a risky move that could blow up in Ballards face if Wentz get hurt or the Offensive Line struggles. 

I think this is just a horrible post, riddled with wrong information and hypocrisy.

 

1. I am far from a fan of Grigson, but to act like he just abandoned the OL is incorrect.

 

Signed: Gosder Cherilus(far from backup), Donald Thomas(starter, hit with injuries), Todd Herremans(ehh)

 

Drafted: Jack Mewhort, Ryan Kelly, Khaled Holmes, La'Raven Clark, Joe Haeg, Justin Anderson, Hugh Thornton, Ulrich John, Denzel Good, Austin Blythe

 

 

Did the moves pay off, not so much, but to suggest he didn't try to protect Luck is completely wrong. Lets not forget also, that a lot of Luck's punishment was self inflicted as well. Seeking out hits, staying up to long, snowboarding.

 

2. You want to talk about how the OL was turned around because of the investment of high draft picks, but don't want to acknowledge that, that is exactly what Ballard is trying to do with our DL. He is investing and hoping to turn that unit into one of the best units in the league. Will it be? Jury is out but he is putting the investment in and hoping it will pay off. 

 

3. The Colts OL are still one of the best in football as it sits now, Ballard has improved the depth this offseason and I am sure he isn't done. Just because you think he missed on good OTs in this draft doesn't make it a fact. He told everyone what he thought of the options. Also just because you think the RT options could of pushed Smith to LT, doesn't mean it was in the cards, and even if it is, Tevi or Davenport might be the answer at RT. 

 

4. To suggest that not addressing LT reminds you of Grigson era where "we didn't try to protect our young QB", then go on to say how Ballard has made the OL great with investment is hypocritical at best. Which is it? Ballard didn't try and get OL, or he made the investment?

 

Like I said your post was full of wrong information and hypocrisy.

 

 

Bottom line I trust Ballards opinion much more than yours. I only remember seeing 2 of your post, but both were pretty bad, imo. No offense, just what it is.

[Scott Pennock]

The tea leaves are in front of us.

 

He stated "athletes" when talking about the LT position. Guys who were more athletic and coachable.

 

Alex Leatherwood - already drafted

Spencer Brown - already drafted

Dillon Radunz - already drafted

Landon Young

D'Ante Smith - makes up for lower strength with extreme length and mirroring

Carson Green

Stone Forsythe

Larnell Coleman

 

That leaves 5 guys still available that fit the RAS (Relative Athletic Score) profile as well as other CB criteria.

 

Not too mention he stated the offseason is not done yet - aka Eric Fisher is a phone call away I would bet. Sign him and draft a coachable guy with the measurables and boom, our oline is good to go!

 

Side note......I would not be surprised if another edge player wasn't drafted (Elerson Smith from UNI)!

[Hoose]

20 minutes ago, w87r said:

I think this is just a horrible post, riddled with wrong information and hypocrisy.

 

1. I am far from a fan of Grigson, but to act like he just abandoned the OL is incorrect.

 

Signed: Gosder Cherilus(far from backup), Donald Thomas(starter, hit with injuries), Todd Herremans(ehh)

 

Drafted: Jack Mewhort, Ryan Kelly, Khaled Holmes, La'Raven Clark, Joe Haeg, Justin Anderson, Hugh Thornton, Ulrich John, Denzel Good, Austin Blythe

 

 

Did the moves pay off, not so much, but to suggest he didn't try to protect Luck is completely wrong. Lets not forget also, that a lot of Luck's punishment was self inflicted as well. Seeking out hits, staying up to long, snowboarding.

 

2. You want to talk about how the OL was turned around because of the investment of high draft picks, but don't want to acknowledge that, that is exactly what Ballard is trying to do with our DL. He is investing and hoping to turn that unit into one of the best units in the league. Will it be? Jury is out but he is putting the investment in and hoping it will pay off. 

 

3. The Colts OL are still one of the best in football as it sits now, Ballard has improved the depth this offseason and I am sure he isn't done. Just because you think he missed on good OTs in this draft doesn't make it a fact. He told everyone what he thought of the options. Also just because you think the RT options could of pushed Smith to LT, doesn't mean it was in the cards, and even if it is, Tevi or Davenport might be the answer at RT. 

 

4. To suggest that not addressing LT reminds you of Grigson era where "we didn't try to protect our young QB", then go on to say how Ballard has made the OL great with investment is hypocritical at best. Which is it? Ballard didn't try and get OL, or he made the investment?

 

Like I said your post was full of wrong information and hypocrisy.

 

 

Bottom line I trust Ballards opinion much more than yours. I only remember seeing 2 of your post, but both were pretty bad, imo. No offense, just what it is.

For the record, the Colts likely won’t have a first round pick next year. So now you head into the 2023 season still not getting your hands on a long term answer at LT. UNLESS, the solution is playing Q there. To me, this is the likely scenario. Because expecting mediocre talent such as the FA OT’s signed this offseason to step in and perform as quality starters is unlikely to work. 

[w87r]

4 minutes ago, Hoose said:

For the record, the Colts likely won’t have a first round pick next year. So now you head into the 2023 season still not getting your hands on a long term answer at LT. UNLESS, the solution is playing Q there. To me, this is the likely scenario. Because expecting mediocre talent such as the FA OT’s signed this offseason to step in and perform as quality starters is unlikely to work. 

Yep. It goes both ways with that as well though.

 

Turay and Lewis are both FAs after this season as well. If these guys play well this year, we wont be able to retain both with the current contracts we have to deal out. Need more replacement to increase chance of landing what we need and to keep the stable full of options. With no 1st/2nd next year it would be harder to do as well.

 

 

Castonzo retiring hurt, added another need, but the OL is a better unit than our DL coming into draft.

 

Drafting a guy to play LT that Ballard doesn't feel is a LT is unlikely to work as well.

 

 

I would take my gamble on a couple of guys who have started over 50 games combined joining an already solid OL and upping their play.

 

The situation is what it is. We could I guess not have a QB right now, as well?

 

I will take loading up with young DL talent(less talented group), adding veteran depth on OL(more talented group) and a QB with success with our coach. Seems to be the best of all scenarios.

 

Ballard isn't done on the OL either, even said so last night. Wont be surprised if we bring in Fisher or Okung after draft, Im sure we will be drafting one today as well?

[cdgacoltsfan]

2 hours ago, austriancolt said:

I disagree and think it is a mistake not adressing the LT spot adequately in free agency or the draft. Reminds me a lot of the Grigson days, where the Colts tried to protect their young franchise QB with some cheap backups and a lot of hope that some projects turn into pro bowlers. We all know how that ended. Tevi and Davenport with all respect are backups that you can throw in for a snap or two but you don't want them to be your starter. And the other options out there? Eric Fisher had a serious injury. Okung only played in 13 games over the past two years thank to injuries. And we missed out on every good Tackle in the draft. Even if you think most of them are just RT it would have allowed us to put Smith on the LT spot and play the rookie at RT and leave Nelson on the LG spot that worked out well so far.  By the way invest some high draft picks in OL turned a bad Colts Offensive Line in an elite one. Nelson (1st), Kelly (1st), Smith (2nd) are the reason things changed. And it changed because the Colts were willing to invest high picks in their Line. 

 

Not doing much in free agency, doing nothing so far in the draft while your franchise LT Castonzo retired is a risky move that could blow up in Ballards face if Wentz get hurt or the Offensive Line struggles. 

No worries, Ballards plan is for Wentz to go down early, throw Eason in there, and secure a top 5 pick in next year's draft.

[MikeCurtis]

18 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

No worries, Ballards plan is for Wentz to go down early, throw Eason in there, and secure a top 5 pick in next year's draft.

Now THAT is a weird post.........

[azcolt]

Glad to see Ballard believes this roster is so stacked that he can use a second round pick on a 2022 defensive end. 

[JediXMan]

8 minutes ago, azcolt said:

Glad to see Ballard believes this roster is so stacked that he can use a second round pick on a 2022 defensive end. 

Glad to see you have inside track on his recovery even though he’s on track to play around October lol.
 

 

[TigerColt]

Why not address both needs?  Darrisaw was available at 21. Address DL in the 2nd. Both needs taken care of. 

Every draft simulation i ran had the same situation Ballard faced. Paye and Darrisaw were available. When I picked Paye (I like the player a lot) there was a run on OT before pick 54 and forced me to pick another position of need. I really like the Dayno pick as well dont get me wrong. He is a great player.

Just believe Ballard could have addressed both positions if he picked Darrisaw in the first.

 

Joseph

[Les Poulains]

4 minutes ago, cjrichard said:

Why not address both needs?  Darrisaw was available at 21. Address DL in the 2nd. Both needs taken care of. 

Every draft simulation i ran had the same situation Ballard faced. Paye and Darrisaw were available. When I picked Paye (I like the player a lot) there was a run on OT before pick 54 and forced me to pick another position of need. I really like the Dayno pick as well dont get me wrong. He is a great player.

Just believe Ballard could have addressed both positions if he picked Darrisaw in the first.

 

Joseph

For Darrisaw, didn't he have very few pass sets at VTech? I think he's another one of those guys that the Colts thought was either a right tackle, or they'd have to take their time with him to get him to eventually play on the left in the NFL. Just my hypothesis. 

[TigerColt]

You may be right. Who really knows. I could not find Darrisaws RAS score.

The point I was trying to make was this:  If you take Paye in the first, be prepared to either trade up in the second for Cosmi or Jenkins or you will be picking another position in the second. I believe Ballard knew this and has a plan to address LT either latter today or after the draft. He even mentioned this in the presser yesterday. 

Trust the ENTIRE process to build the team. Its still early....

 

Joseph

[Coltscrazy]

27 minutes ago, cjrichard said:

Why not address both needs?  Darrisaw was available at 21. Address DL in the 2nd. Both needs taken care of. 

Every draft simulation i ran had the same situation Ballard faced. Paye and Darrisaw were available. When I picked Paye (I like the player a lot) there was a run on OT before pick 54 and forced me to pick another position of need. I really like the Dayno pick as well dont get me wrong. He is a great player.

Just believe Ballard could have addressed both positions if he picked Darrisaw in the first.

 

Joseph

Many clubs were not sold on Darrisaw at 21.  You have a good point though.  If Ballard wanted athletes at tackle, there were definitely some available, like Cosmi.  I'm happy that Ballard is trying to build a 49'rs D-line, and we still have great pieces on our O-line.  Some GMs talk about the trenches, but Ballard is actually doing it.