The Art of throwing receivers open Brissett, Hoyer Stampede Blue

[Coffeedrinker]

7 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Hoyer's  pick 6 was the difference  in the game. If you could somehow fuse the the two and have a qb not throwing  tds to the other team we might get somewhere

JB's pick sick in the Oakland game was the difference in that game.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

Well said. 

 

To add, I am surprised that in such sample size, against a middling opponent people are riding the Hoyer train. Jacoby finished knocking off two huge opponents and we have guys saying he's not the QB. It's just kinda weird to me.

I agree. To sum up my thoughts, JB is the best QB on the roster = fact, it is fact because Chris Ballard and Frank Reich think so as well. People can argue with them if they think otherwise  . I also am not sold on JB being able to win a SB so people being critical of him is reasonable. I am sold on him now being able to win us a lot of games though and convinced he isn't bad. I have him at 15th and above average as of now still. He was great backup, above average starter, JMO. Andrew Luck was a very good starter/borderline great.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

JB's pick sick in the Oakland game was the difference in that game.

It might of been but there is a big difference. We were down in the Oakland game with very little time left. The Steelers game we score there we are up 17-3 and that game is probably over. Instead it’s 10-10.  The two INT are not created equal. We were not in the lead in that Oakland game. JB did not cost us our lead in the Oakland game.

[Colts_Fan12]

10 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

I proved your point.. I think not. I think once again you refuse to answer direct questions. 
 

If you find being objective and driven by evidence, and you know doing stuff like forming my own opinion is “putting an asterisk” on things that says more about you. You’ve brought nothing original to this conversation. Mostly second hand regurgitation of opinions that you barley understand yourself. What’s egregious is when you pass it off as your own thoughts without attribution as if people on here don’t read/listen to the same sources.
 

Do you truly believe/understand  half of what you post? 

+1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 these are all likes that the site won't allow me to give your post!! 

[Kenzicocapontas]

3 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

 

One, an asterisk does not mean bringing up the opposing team's weaknesses to discredit him.

 

Two, in your opinion he has been really good and anyone who disagrees with your opinion you are trying to claim they are putting an asterisk by it.

 

Three, a team can only play their schedule that is true but you cannot discount the competition the situation of the games.  And the facts are JB has looked really good against bad secondaries and mediocre against good secondaries.  That is not an asterisk it's not a knock on JB, it is just how I (and others see things)

 

But taking all competition and everything out of it.  When you compare JB's numbers to known good to great QBs, he falls short.

 

This year JB is averaging 7 yards per attempt.  An average less than 7.5 ypa is considered mediocre to bad.

 

JB is averaging 10.8 yards per completion.. Again, an average less than 11.5 ypc is considered mediocre to bad.

 

JB has a 5.9% TD %.  That is good, anything above a 5.3 is good.

 

He has an INT% of 1.3%.  Anything between 1.2 and 1.5 is good.  less than 1.2 is great.

 

Those are the most important stats for a QB and individually they each tell a different story but you you combine that all JB is a good QB but not great and has a lot of work to do to move into that great category because the numbers say that when he gets the team into scoring position he takes advantage of it but he struggles to get the team into scoring position.

He also has one of the lowest average depth per target in the league I believe? It was a few weeks back though, I haven't seen the updated stats posted. I feel like hes improved a bit but who knows.

 

I also saw he had the 4th highest uncatchable pass % in throws 10+ yards since 2016. That was back on Oct 22nd though. 

 

He really yoyos between being really good and really not good depending on the stat. I tend to sway towards PFF but I dont pay for that stuff looool

[SteelCityColt]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree. To sum up my thoughts, JB is the best QB on the roster = fact, it is fact because Chris Ballard and Frank Reich think so as well. People can argue with them if they think otherwise  . I also am not sold on JB being able to win a SB so people being critical of him is reasonable. I am sold on him now being able to win us a lot of games though and convinced he isn't bad. I have him at 15th and above average as of now still. He was great backup, above average starter, JMO. Andrew Luck was a very good starter/borderline great.

I don’t agree with all here, but at least its reasonable.

[hoosierhawk]

11 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Hoyer's  pick 6 was the difference  in the game. If you could somehow fuse the the two and have a qb not throwing  tds to the other team we might get somewhere

It's not like JB hasn't thrown an INT this year or do we disregard the 3 he threw? To say Hoyers INT as the difference it not really fair. why was Leonard's penalty at the end of the first half that cost us 3 points. why was the missed X point that would have sent us in overtime not the difference or the missed FG at the end of the game.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

I don’t agree with all here, but at least its reasonable.

Thanks, I will say this if Chris Ballard and Frank Reich even thought Hoyer or Kelly was better than JB, JB would be the one on the practice squad or the backup. Ballard and Reich isn't going to play a QB on their roster that doesn't give them the best chance to win. No team does that unless they are tanking and stink.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

It's not like JB hasn't thrown an INT this year or do we disregard the 3 he threw? To say Hoyers INT as the difference it not really fair. why was Leonard's penalty at the end of the first half that cost us 3 points. why was the missed X point that would have sent us in overtime not the difference or the missed FG at the end of the game.

In this case it was the difference because we had a 10-3 lead and we were getting ready to score. Plus the INT resulted in 7 pts. The Steelers are bad I doubt they come back from 17-3. You stick the nail in the coffin right there by going up 17-3.

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Thanks, I will say this if Chris Ballard and Frank Reich even thought Hoyer or Kelly was better than JB, JB would be the one on the practice squad or the backup. Ballard and Reich isn't going to play a QB on their roster that doesn't give them the best chance to win. No team does that unless they are tanking and stink.

Exactly.

 

It’s entirely reasonable to say JB gives us the best chance of winning this year given the completely insane circumstances we found ourselves in. 
 

My concern is more about the long term, but I’m also not entirely against being convinced that he could be the long term answer. I’d very much prefer he was.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Exactly.

 

It’s entirely reasonable to say JB gives us the best chance of winning this year given the completely insane circumstances we found ourselves in. 
 

My concern is more about the long term, but I’m also not entirely against being convinced that he could be the long term answer. I’d very much prefer he was.

I think we are all on that same page. It’s the ones who already want someone new and are already giving up on him.  We have a good enough team to let his contact play out and get some great players in the draft and maybe one in FA to wait and see if we can contend with him. We aren’t in dire need to draft one which is a great position to be in.  Like you said this team is better off if he turns out to be the guy.

[hoosierhawk]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Thanks, I will say this if Chris Ballard and Frank Reich even thought Hoyer or Kelly was better than JB, JB would be the one on the practice squad or the backup. Ballard and Reich isn't going to play a QB on their roster that doesn't give them the best chance to win. No team does that unless they are tanking and stink.

I don't think but maybe a couple people here would dispute or should dispute your claim. He is our best choice. But is he beyond critical analysis? I think it could be healthy but it has turned into a big p...ing contest here.

[shasta519]

21 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It might of been but there is a big difference. We were down in the Oakland game with very little time left. The Steelers game we score there we are up 17-3 and that game is probably over. Instead it’s 10-10.  The two INT are not created equal. We were not in the lead in that Oakland game. JB did not cost us our lead in the Oakland game.

 

They aren’t equal...JB’s was much more critical and effectively ended the game. Hoyer’s happened in the 2nd quarter and the game was tied. He immediately went down and scored a TD after that before the half ended.

 

People are seriously saying Hoyer’s int had more impact than JB’s? Come on.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Exactly.

 

It’s entirely reasonable to say JB gives us the best chance of winning this year given the completely insane circumstances we found ourselves in. 
 

My concern is more about the long term, but I’m also not entirely against being convinced that he could be the long term answer. I’d very much prefer he was.

I am not convinced JB can win us a SB, that is where my problem is. I think if he has a great O.Line around him and an ok defense we can make the playoffs a lot though. JB has shown me he is better than average = above average. We are really lucky to have him because when Luck retired we would've really been screwed without JB. Probably 2-6/3-5 right now is my guess. There are really no clear cut great QB's coming out of college either, so so-called tanking this year would've made no sense IMO. I look at some of the recent QB's that have came out and haven't been impressed. I would take JB over Winston, Mariota, Trubisky, Darnold, and Mayfield for example. Luck was a given great.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

They aren’t equal...JB’s was much more critical and effectively ended the game. Hoyer’s happened in the 2nd quarter and the game was tied. He immediately went down and scored a TD after that before the half ended.

 

People are seriously saying Hoyer’s int had more impact than JB’s? Come on.

It did. The Steelers are bad. That was the turning point of that game. That would of deflated them if we are up 17-3 and getting the ball back in the second half.

[hoosierhawk]

12 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

In this case it was the difference because we had a 10-3 lead and we were getting ready to score. Plus the INT resulted in 7 pts. The Steelers are bad I doubt they come back from 17-3. You stick the nail in the coffin right there by going up 17-3.

That is totally bogus. We lost by 2 points. Why does the 3 points FG at the end of the half by Pitt not play into this or the missed FG at the end of the game .Either of those going our way was the difference between a W or L.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

WE have time to build around JB even more and see what we have.  He is not doing anything alarming where we need to get rid of him.  We are in a great position to see if he can be the guy and not panic and get rid of him.  We should feel very lucky. IF he was so bad we might have to panic and just take any QB that comes our way.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, hoosierhawk said:

That is totally bogus. We lost by 2 points. Why does the 3 points FG at the end of the half by Pitt not play into this or the missed FG at the end of the game .Either of those going our way was the difference between a W or L.

Ok so we still go into halftime up 17-6. That is a big deal.

[hoosierhawk]

5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It did. The Steelers are bad. That was the turning point of that game. That would of deflated them if we are up 17-3 and getting the ball back in the second half.

How in God's green earth can you make such a statement like that? You have zero proof.

[SteelCityColt]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am not convinced JB can win us a SB, that is where my problem is. I think if he has a great O.Line around him and an ok defense we can make the playoffs a lot though. JB has shown me he is better than average = above average. We are really lucky to have him because when Luck retired we would've really been screwed without JB. Probably 2-6/3-5 right now is my guess. There are really no clear cut great QB's coming out of college either, so so-called tanking this year would've made no sense IMO. I look at some of the recent QB's that have came out and haven't been impressed. I would take JB over Winston, Mariota, Trubisky, Darnold, and Mayfield for example. Luck was a given great.

Darnold is the only one listed I think has viable long term potential but I think the Jets are going to ruin him.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

That is totally bogus. We lost by 2 points. Why does the 3 points FG at the end of the half by Pitt not play into this or the missed FG at the end of the game .Either of those going our way was the difference between a W or L.

OH wait I think we actually go into half time 23-6 because we scored a TD before the half.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

Darnold is the only one listed I think has viable long term potential but I think the Jets are going to ruin him.

I agree.

[hoosierhawk]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

OH wait I think we actually go into half time 23-6 because we scored a TD before the half.

You are not answering my question.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, hoosierhawk said:

You are not answering my question.

The Steelers are bad so yes it would of stuck the nail in the coffin. Rudolph is so bad. They only scored one TD on a actually full offensive drive. Sure we can’t know for sure.

[hoosierhawk]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The Steelers are bad so yes it would of stuck the nail in the coffin. Rudolph is so bad. They only scored one TD on a actually full offensive drive. Sure we can’t know for sure.

You are ignoring 6 points, 3 each way. We know that for a fact. How do you ignore that?

[shasta519]

28 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

In this case it was the difference because we had a 10-3 lead and we were getting ready to score. Plus the INT resulted in 7 pts. The Steelers are bad I doubt they come back from 17-3. You stick the nail in the coffin right there by going up 17-3.

 

This is silly. The game was only tied at that point..in the 2nd quarter. It did not cost them game.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

This is silly. The game was only tied at that point..in the 2nd quarter. It did not cost them game.

 

I said it was the turning point. We let them  stick around instead of burying them. This has been a issue all year.

[shasta519]

11 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

How in God's green earth can you make such a statement like that? You have zero proof.

 

Would seem the anti-Hoyer takes are as unreasonable as some of the pro-JB. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The Steelers are bad so yes it would of stuck the nail in the coffin. Rudolph is so bad. They only scored one TD on a actually full offensive drive. Sure we can’t know for sure.

We got beat by Rudolph the Red Nose ReinDeer, that is what a friend of mine left on my voice mail last Sunday  .

[shasta519]

13 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Darnold is the only one listed I think has viable long term potential but I think the Jets are going to ruin him.

 

Mayfield does...once they oust Freddie. The talent is there.

 

I would take Mayfield in a heartbeat if CLE wanted to dump him.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I am just glad we have a guy like JB that can win us games and we don’t have to just go take anyone out there. We can continue to build this team and see if he improves. Imagine being TN. They are going to have to take a QB because theirs are so bad. We can sit back and wait and see if JB becomes the guy If we don’t see one that can be the guy. It’s hard to find a franchise QB.

1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

 

Mayfield does...once they oust Freddie. The talent is there.

 

I would take Mayfield in a heartbeat if CLE wanted to dump him.

Mayfield doesn’t have the mental makeup to  lead a team. He always blames others.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

 

Mayfield does...once they oust Freddie. The talent is there.

 

I would take Mayfield in a heartbeat if CLE wanted to dump him.

Cleveland is like the Jets, they are ruining Mayfield. Mayfield's attitude bothers me though. I like Darnold better. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Cleveland is like the Jets, they are ruining Mayfield. Mayfield's attitude bothers me though. I like Darnold better. 

He is way to emotional and immature and I am not sure if he has the mental makeup to grow up.

[hoosierhawk]

7 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I said it was the turning point. We let them  stick around instead of burying them. This has been a issue all year.

You very clearly stated more than once it cost us the game. You have never addressed why to two field goals didn't play into the final score but only the int cost us the game.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, hoosierhawk said:

You very clearly stated more than once it cost us the game. You have never addressed why to two field goals didn't play into the final score but only the int cost us the game.

Because I think it did. You can disagree but my opinion is that was the turning point that cost us the game. Of course no one can no for sure.

 

[hoosierhawk]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Cleveland is like the Jets, they are ruining Mayfield. Mayfield's attitude bothers me though. I like Darnold better. 

Baker was damaged goods when he got there and they haven't stopped him from self destructing, that's for certain.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

Luck was great, but he had flaws and I wasn't too disappointed when he announced his retirement.

 

What?!?  You must be the only person besides his wife...  

[2006Coltsbestever]

Yeah that Rudolph voice mail was funny. I will never forget the time a janitor at work called my office phone after the Colts lost to the Titans in 2006. He said "is Fishing season in please, Fishing season". He was a Titans fan and was a cool dude. That was too funny. At the time Fisher was their coach and we lost on a 60 yard FG.

[hoosierhawk]

5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Because I think it did. You can disagree but my opinion is that was the turning point that cost us the game. Of course no one can no for sure.

 

So the 3 points at the end of the half made no difference or the missed field goal to end the game didn't matter at all, correct? Wow!!

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If he plays this week and throws for 300 yards and 3 TD's and we win 30-10, a few on here will say, he played the weak Dolphins and well he missed Cain wide open down the field  . To some nothing will never be good enough unless we win the SB  .

 

People would do the same thing about Hoyer...even though Hoyer is not a threat to JB. 

 

A good number of posts in this thread are people being critical of Hoyer’s game against PIT...which is asinine IMO. PIT is #6 in passing defense DVOA this year.