The Art of throwing receivers open Brissett, Hoyer Stampede Blue

[Nickster]

8 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Why does everyone have to put a asterisk on JB when he does something good. You play who is in your schedule. Sometimes you play better defenses.

 

You are comparing a Ten year veteran to a guy who has 23 starts. Do you know how dumb that sounds.

 

I think that's pretty simple Chloe.  We FANS are wondering whether this guy is going to be around here long or not.  NO one thinks Hoyer is the way forward.  He is obviously a back up type of guy.

 

That's it.  That simple. 

 

Me, I'd be surprised if JB is our starter after next year at the latest from what I've seen on the field.  He seems like a backup type of guy.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If a QB is any good he will pick a part any weak secondary. That is nothing new. JB took advantage of a weak secondary because he is above average and was great that game. Who cares really, JB played bad against Denver because they have a great secondary but he still had a game winning drive. Tom Brady used to have some bad games when he played the Ravens because they had a great secondary, Peyton used to vs the Chargers too.

 

When JB plays good or great, why can't you and certain posters just say so. You and some others seem to never do, you along with a few just point to his flaws. That is why people like me get irritated at times. I don't mind people being critical of JB but if he plays well, his doubters should acknowledge it is all I say. He had great games vs the Falcons and vs the Texans. If Luck had the game vs the Texans that JB did, almost everyone on here would be saying Luck is best QB in the league.

This is such a good point. Nothing he does will be good enough. There will always nit pick to find something. Or try to come up with a reason to discredit him when he plays well.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

False.  JB's completion percentage and QBR per week:

Gm1 Chargers:  77% 66 QBR

Gm2 Titans:  61%  29 QBR

Gm3 Falcons: 76%  86 QBR

Gm4 Raiders 52%  46 QBR

Gm5 Chiefs  62%  32 QBR

Gm6  Texans  67%  74 QBR

Gm7  Broncos  60%  42 QBR

Gm8  Steelers  Incomplete game but was at 80% with a 40 QBR.  

 

Hoyer took over the Steelers game and completed 65%  and a 40 QBR.  It's when the JB haters lie is when I think it's y'all that have a hidden agenda.  Now show me how his percentage and QBR were better than JB's Chargers, Falcons, or Texans games?  His QBR was only better than 2 of JB's games.  Games he still managed to win by the way. 

 

I bet when Hoyer's QBR is below 40 you'll see mostly losses.  Why because he'll be a contributing factor to the losses.  JB for all his flaws won't screw the game away when he doesn't have it that day.  Give me JB over Hoyer.  And I like Hoyer a lot.  Glad we have him.  Sure JB can get better and needs to but to suggest what Hoyer just did is something amazing is untrue.  Give me wins over hollow or misleading stats.

Great post with facts too 

[Fisticuffs111]

6 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am going to laugh so hard if we decide to move on from JB and end up in QB purgatory trying to find the guy.  There is no guarantee with any QB. There are not 32 franchise QB. If you end up with one it’s rare. There is a middle ground between elite and mediocre. You can win with a above average QB if you build a team around the QB. There isn’t a elite QB tree you just go pick one off of.

It seems like you'd be upset if we moved on from Brissett in general. Which, I think it's likely he'll play out his contract here and I'm not ruling out Ballard deciding he's the long term guy and extending him beyond that, but I doubt Ballard is 100% decided on that yet.

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am going to laugh so hard if we decide to move on from JB and end up in QB purgatory trying to find the guy.  There is no guarantee with any QB. There are not 32 franchise QB. If you end up with one it’s rare. There is a middle ground between elite and mediocre. You can win with a above average QB if you build a team around the QB. There isn’t a elite QB tree you just go pick one off of.

 

I absolutely agree with you that it could be risky looking elsewhere, but I think it's more likely than not finding someone better than JB.  I think he's replaceable and has basically no upside other than what we've seen.  I'd love to be proven wrong.  Like I said, back in the day I wanted to Colts to draft Leaf.

 

But we could draft QBs like the Jets or the Broncos and then we'd be screwed no doubt.

[Coffeedrinker]

4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am going to laugh so hard if we decide to move on from JB and end up in QB purgatory trying to find the guy.  There is no guarantee with any QB. There are not 32 franchise QB. If you end up with one it’s rare. There is a middle ground between elite and mediocre. You can win with a above average QB if you build a team around the QB. There isn’t a elite QB tree you just go pick one off of.

You would watch your favorite team struggle just so you could laugh and say, "I told you so" to some people posting on a forum?

 

Seems a priority adjustment is needed.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

This is such a good point. Nothing he does will be good enough. There will always nit pick to find something. Or try to come up with a reason to discredit him when he plays well.

If he plays this week and throws for 300 yards and 3 TD's and we win 30-10, a few on here will say, he played the weak Dolphins and well he missed Cain wide open down the field  . To some nothing will never be good enough unless we win the SB  .

[SteelCityColt]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am going to laugh so hard if we decide to move on from JB and end up in QB purgatory trying to find the guy.  There is no guarantee with any QB. There are not 32 franchise QB. If you end up with one it’s rare. There is a middle ground between elite and mediocre. You can win with a above average QB if you build a team around the QB. There isn’t a elite QB tree you just go pick one off of.

If you laugh at this then that says a lot about your attitude as fan.
 

Oh the middle ground you mention.. how did that work out for teams like the Bengals/Texans/Broncos/Redskins and even the Chiefs until recently.
 

You can make the argument that the game theory in a system built towards parity, it’s better to either be awful or exceptional. 

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If he plays this week and throws for 300 yards and 3 TD's and we win 30-10, a few on here will say, he played the weak Dolphins and well he missed Cain wide open down the field  . To some nothing will never be good enough unless we win the SB  .

now now be fair.. some might. 

[Nickster]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If a QB is any good he will pick a part any weak secondary. That is nothing new. JB took advantage of a weak secondary because he is above average and was great that game. Who cares really, JB played bad against Denver because they have a great secondary but he still had a game winning drive. Tom Brady used to have some bad games when he played the Ravens because they had a great secondary, Peyton used to vs the Chargers too.

 

When JB plays good or great, why can't you and certain posters just say so. You and some others seem to never do, you along with a few just point to his flaws. That is why people like me get irritated at times. I don't mind people being critical of JB but if he plays well, his doubters should acknowledge it is all I say. He had great games vs the Falcons and vs the Texans. If Luck had the game vs the Texans that JB did, almost everyone on here would be saying Luck is best QB in the league.

 

I did say he played well against Houston and ATL.

 

But I didn't fall in love with his game.  I saw mainly 1st read type of plays.  That is why I think he's replaceable.  Both of those teams have abysmal secondaries and give up prodigious amounts of yds. and tds through the air though.  Pitt doesn't. It was an impressive game for Hoyerable IMO.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

It seems like you'd be upset if we moved on from Brissett in general. Which, I think it's likely he'll play out his contract here and I'm not ruling out Ballard deciding he's the long term guy, but I doubt Ballard is 100% decided on that yet.

No. My point is JB has to play himself out of the colts future. So far he hasn’t. I am not in the mind we need to move on yet. He has shown enough he deserves my respect to see what he can do.  We aren’t going to know what we actually have in him until next season. When he starts costing us games or doing stupid stuff then he will have played himself out of our future. Right now the jury is still out.

[Nickster]

11 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Yes he was criticized on the forum for holding the ball too long and it was nice to see him change in reich's offensive system.  Luck was also criticized for not throwing receivers open, something he didn't do well last year either.

 

But like other poster's have said, Luck's faults have nothing to do with JB.  So to get my post back on topic, like others  I thought the offense looked better with Hoyer in the game.  But Hoyer has around 50 more starts and 8 seasons on JB, so he should look a bit better than a QB with 24 starts and 3 seasons who was thrown into a very tough situation.  overall I've been impressed with JB.  But I don't think he is the franchise QB for the future but that may change as the season progresses.

 

Not arguing but I think JB is in a great position.  I don't think it's tough at all compared to many situattions around the league where guys have to try to break in.  He took essentially all of the reps in camp.  

Now maybe it's tough following Luck, but I think the expectations were pretty low after the retirement.  But it's not like he's just been thrown in there.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

 

I think our weapons are pretty good against convention.  Our TE group is top notch.  Mack is a stud IMO, and I think the WR is average.

 

The Oline is the difference man.  We didn't have a guard or center when Andy was here.

 

Our D is average and have held their own.  I like our DBs actually.  The LBs are suspect IMO.

 

Dude this forum isn't the only place people watch and discuss Colt football.  It was pretty obvious what Grigson did failed.   He tried to bolster the line but failed.  He wasted every 1st rounder from Luck up until Kelley.  The roster was trash.

I think Mack has as much impact as Gore and Bradshaw did.  I think Doyle is a steady option but Luck had him too.  For all of the comments about Dwayne Allen's stone hands, I'll bet his catch rate was never 58% at any point in a season, like Ebron's.  Not sure why he was a better catcher last year.

 

Our 43 defense makes about as many sacks and turnovers and critical 3rd down stops as did our old 34 defense.  I don't see a big difference when it matters.

 

The reason this is relevant is that there is a growing atmosphere to quickly point out JBs fault's  (and we dig up tape to explain it), as if they can't be corrected after a half a season; when there was an atmosphere of not mentioning Luck's faults (nobody ever dug up tape to show the inaccurate passes or the wide open check down receiver, IIRC), hardly at all despite the faults existing for 5 years.  The fact they may be different faults isn't relevant.

 

 

[Fisticuffs111]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If he plays this week and throws for 300 yards and 3 TD's and we win 30-10, a few on here will say, he played the weak Dolphins and well he missed Cain wide open down the field  . To some nothing will never be good enough unless we win the SB  .

Genuine question though...do you want people to acknowledge/give him props for his good games like you said earlier or do you, like your bolded kinda seems to imply, want them decide that he's "the guy" after a couple of games like against HOU/ATL.

I've seen the sentiment that people just want him to get respect for his good games, and that's totally fair. But at the same time it seems like that same sentiment is combined with wanting the doubters, for lack of a better word, to quell all of their doubts and decide he's the guy.

[Nickster]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If he plays this week and throws for 300 yards and 3 TD's and we win 30-10, a few on here will say, he played the weak Dolphins and well he missed Cain wide open down the field  . To some nothing will never be good enough unless we win the SB  .

 

I vote everyone suspend judgement on Colts QBing against the lowly Dolphs.

 

There, I cant decree it but I have voted for it.

[Nickster]

9 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

If you laugh at this then that says a lot about your attitude as fan.
 

Oh the middle ground you mention.. how did that work out for teams like the Bengals/Texans/Broncos/Redskins and even the Chiefs until recently.
 

You can make the argument that the game theory in a system built towards parity, it’s better to either be awful or exceptional. 

now now be fair.. some might. 

 

 

So in essence you'd rather be in QB hell than QB purgatory because it is probably the only way to get to QB heaven.

[Mr.Debonair]

5 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

False.  JB's completion percentage and QBR per week:

Gm1 Chargers:  77% 66 QBR

Gm2 Titans:  61%  29 QBR

Gm3 Falcons: 76%  86 QBR

Gm4 Raiders 52%  46 QBR

Gm5 Chiefs  62%  32 QBR

Gm6  Texans  67%  74 QBR

Gm7  Broncos  60%  42 QBR

Gm8  Steelers  Incomplete game but was at 80% with a 40 QBR.  

 

Hoyer took over the Steelers game and completed 65%  and a 40 QBR.  It's when the JB haters lie is when I think it's y'all that have a hidden agenda.  Now show me how his percentage and QBR were better than JB's Chargers, Falcons, or Texans games?  His QBR was only better than 2 of JB's games.  Games he still managed to win by the way. 

 

I bet when Hoyer's QBR is below 40 you'll see mostly losses.  Why because he'll be a contributing factor to the losses.  JB for all his flaws won't screw the game away when he doesn't have it that day.  Give me JB over Hoyer.  And I like Hoyer a lot.  Glad we have him.  Sure JB can get better and needs to but to suggest what Hoyer just did is something amazing is untrue.  Give me wins over hollow or misleading stats.

I took those numbers from ESPN so they could have been off.  There is nothing wrong with riding for JB. He is a game manager who will like you said likely avoid the type of mistake that Hoyer made. Nobody here called Hoyer, Kurt Warner either. I haven't seen anyone say he played amazing or was out of this world, maybe I missed it. Hoyer played well and took some shots JB would have prob not have taken

[Kenzicocapontas]

I think all of us who are on the fence about JB still would love to be proven wrong and for him to absolutely take over the league. To make those throws we want him to make and not leave points on the field. To not be so risk adverse. Because if he proves us wrong then we found our franchise QB.

 

I love his attitude, and I love his leadership. I want him to be the guy so bad but I'm not going to get delusional about it, because thats how you get stuck in QB purgatory. 

 

He's got my support but he'll have my criticism too. Like a tough love parent. 

[DougDew]

23 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Me, I'd be surprised if JB is our starter after next year at the latest from what I've seen on the field.  He seems like a backup type of guy.

 

I don't think that is unreasonable.

 

The problem is, is that you have to replace him with someone who is better or else there is no point in changing.

 

Where and how do you find this better starter?

 

If you don't have the means, you don't get a new QB.

 

I get the sense that some have made up their minds that we need a new starter, but haven't looked at reality to see how that happens.  I doubt our new starter comes from the 1st pick in the draft, like it did with our last 2 starters.

 

Maybe we can trade a bunch of capital to get someone just below the 1st pick, like a Darnold or a Rosen.

[Nickster]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I don't think that is unreasonable.

 

The problem is, is that you have to replace him with someone who is better or else there is no point in changing.

 

Where and how do you find this better starter?

 

If you don't have the means, you don't get a new QB.

 

I get the sense that some have made up their minds that we need a new starter, but haven't looked at reality to see how that happens.  I doubt our new starter comes from the 1st pick in the draft, like it did with our last 2 starters.

 

Maybe we can trade a bunch of capital to get someone just below the 1st pick, like a Darnold or a Rosen.

 

Oh dude I agree with everything you are saying.  QB drafting is like baseball drafting.  You almost never know for sure.

 

I just think it is very likely to find someone better than JB.  I don't think the QB play we've seen out of him is going to be good enough.  And we can forget free agents IMO.  JB is not doing to make anyone any money.

 

If this is what we have in my opinion it's worth the risk.  

 

But one thing is for sure.  I would not pay this dude anywhere near franchise money if this is what we have.  IF he worked for like 12 to 15 mill so you could build up other things then we might be talking. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Genuine question though...do you want people to acknowledge/give him props for his good games like you said earlier or, like your bolded seems, do you want them decide that he's "the guy."

Because I've seen the sentiment that some just want him to get respect for his good games, but at the same time it seems like they want all the doubters, for lack of a better word, to switch sides so to speak and decided that he's the future.

I just want his doubters to admit that he is above average and he isn't below average or bad. A Bad QB doesn't have games like JB did vs Houston and they do not win at KC either. Also admit he is the best QB on the roster (which he is) and yes when he has a great game just say so. One last thing to his doubters, quit making excuses for the other teams everytime he plays great or makes a big play. I never once brought up the fact when JB lost to Oakland (threw the pick 6) we didn't have Hilton playing after we lost. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The biggest issue is everyone wants to throw all of the offense problems on JB. There are a  lot of things going on and not just him. If the WR were the exact same as Luck had last year and they were way down you might have a point. Not only do we have  a new QB we are adjusting to he hasn’t even had all his WR healthy.  Two of the WR we expected to contribute are rookies. Then we get all the injuries. It’s not like we have 3 veteran pro bowl WR.  I actually think he has been pretty good with what he has to work with. This isn’t all JB. He is only a part of the issue. We still haven’t seen what he can do with everyone healthy and on the field at the same time and the WR growing up. All of Cain’s issues are not Jacoby.

[Coffeedrinker]

I guess when people have a personal agenda they throw out anything, even if it's not true to make a point.

 

People didn't criticize AL.  Untrue

Everyone blames the offenses problems on JB:  Untrue.

JB cannot go throw the ball deep:  Untrue

That the only way we can replace JB is with a top 5 pick in the drraft:  Untrue

JB has only played well against bad defenses:  Untrue.

 

I could go on.  My opinion is if anyone thinks JB has proven that he should be the now and future long term QB of the Colts, then they don't understand what they are seeing on the field.  If anyone thinks that a journeyman QB or a Mr. Irrelevant QB should replace JB long term JB and should replace him, do not understand what they are seeing on the field.

[Coffeedrinker]

12 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The biggest issue is everyone wants to throw all of the offense problems on JB. There are a  lot of things going on and not just him. If the WR were the exact same as Luck had last year and they were way down you might have a point. Not only do we have  a new QB we are adjusting to he hasn’t even had all his WR healthy.  Two of the WR we expected to contribute are rookies. Then we get all the injuries. It’s not like we have 3 veteran pro bowl WR.  I actually think he has been pretty good with what he has to work with. This isn’t all JB. He is only a part of the issue. We still haven’t seen what he can do with everyone healthy and on the field at the same time and the WR growing up. All of Cain’s issues are not Jacoby.

Isn't that like putting an asterisk next to JBs name?

[SteelCityColt]

31 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

 

So in essence you'd rather be in QB hell than QB purgatory because it is probably the only way to get to QB heaven.

I don’t necessarily agree with it, but it’s a pragmatic way to look at it.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I am going to go put a asterisk beside TOM Brady this year because they have played bad teams. Every QB will play bad and good defenses and teams. You can’t say oh but this is because the other team. You play what’s on your schedule. Good QB take advantage of a bad secondary. That’s what JB did against Houston and Atlanta. Mediocre QB won’t do that.

[SteelCityColt]

25 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The biggest issue is everyone wants to throw all of the offense problems on JB. There are a  lot of things going on and not just him. If the WR were the exact same as Luck had last year and they were way down you might have a point. Not only do we have  a new QB we are adjusting to he hasn’t even had all his WR healthy.  Two of the WR we expected to contribute are rookies. Then we get all the injuries. It’s not like we have 3 veteran pro bowl WR.  I actually think he has been pretty good with what he has to work with. This isn’t all JB. He is only a part of the issue. We still haven’t seen what he can do with everyone healthy and on the field at the same time and the WR growing up. All of Cain’s issues are not Jacoby.

No, the biggest issue is people refusing to be objective and tarring people who will have honest conversations about it. That works both ways. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

12 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Isn't that like putting an asterisk next to JBs name?

No. I said in that exact post he has been really good despite not even a good WR group. That tells me with everyone healthy he will probably be better. A asterisk means bringing up the opposing teams weakness to discredit him.

[SteelCityColt]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am going to go put a asterisk beside TOM Brady this year because they have played bad teams. Every QB will play bad and good defenses and teams. You can’t say oh but this is because the other team. You play what’s on your schedule. Good QB take advantage of a bad secondary. That’s what JB did against Houston and Atlanta. Mediocre QB won’t do that.

Dear lord.... 

 

to compare TB and Brissett’s situations is farcical enough as it is. I mean one has proven himself beyond question and extended our belief in what should be possible in terms of longevity of careers.

 

But if you insist on being obtuse; how well has TB played this year? 

2 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

No, the biggest issue is people refusing to be objective and tarring people who will have honest conversations about it. That works both ways. 

Keep digging and you might find the balls the Raiders buried.

[stitches]

49 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

 

So in essence you'd rather be in QB hell than QB purgatory because it is probably the only way to get to QB heaven.

 

17 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

I don’t necessarily agree with it, but it’s a pragmatic way to look at it.

I wouldn't say it's the only way to get to QB heaven(KC for example were in QB purgatory for ages until they decided to aim higher), but it's probably the way that gives you the best chance(because the Chiefs way is not really the norm).

 

The thing is... execs and coaches are also much more likely to lose their jobs when in QB hell, rather than in QB purgatory, so the incentives don't really align for them to maximize their chance of getting in QB heaven because what does it matter to them if the team will be in QB heaven if they will lose their jobs in the process.. 

 

My hope is that Ballard will be brave and aggressive enough to go get a QB he likes with the picks he's hoarding. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Dear lord.... 

 

to compare TB and Brissett’s situations is farcical enough as it is. I mean one has proven himself beyond question and extended our belief in what should be possible in terms of longevity of careers.

 

But if you insist on being obtuse; how well has TB played this year? 

Keep digging and you might find the balls the Raiders buried.

I see both sides of it, I am pro JB but not sold on him winning a SB yet. Having said that not even Luck got us to the promise land and he was the definition of very good overall to great at times. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Dear lord.... 

 

to compare TB and Brissett’s situations is farcical enough as it is. I mean one has proven himself beyond question and extended our belief in what should be possible in terms of longevity of careers.

 

But if you insist on being obtuse; how well has TB played this year? 

Keep digging and you might find the balls the Raiders buried.

You just proved my point in how stupid it is putting a asterisk on everything JB does. I was trying to prove a point. It seems everything this team does this year no one wants to give them credit for. Everyone wants to go oh but. You can do that with every team. I can go oh but defense looked good but that team is bad. Everyone has that in there schedule. No team is going to be playing great  teams all 16 games. Or play bad teams all 16.  

[Kenzicocapontas]

The chaotic nuetral in me wants us to be a two QB team (since they both have very different pros and cons) and just be a planning nightmare for all opposing teams. Where the coaches are asked who's starting and the answer is, "IDK. Figure it out, stupid." 

 

Logistically speaking I know it wouldn't work, however it may be hilarious. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Right now he has showed me enough I want to build this team around him. We have places in this roster we need help. If we get to the point we built the best roster we can and the team isn’t a contender then Its time to look for a new QB. I want to see what he can do with a couple star WR and not just TY. I want to see what he can do with a healthy Campbell. Maybe getting a WR that is already established or Cain growing up. Once I feel those things are accomplished I will either be on board with him or not. Right now he isn’t costing us games and the Locker room loves him.

[Douzer]

5 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

JB sheds some tacklers but is less than average as a runner.  Very slow.  
Averages 13ypg and 3 ypc and has a long of 9.

 

He runs fairly often, but there are probably reasons for that.

OK slow, but that's +3 yards instead of -7 and a sack. Pocket awareness & escape-ability are quality traits. Successfully running for 1st downs & sustaining drives, instead of punting is a solid trait. Yardage gained is not the metric that matters really - it's evading sacks, turning negative plays into a positive ones, keeping down & distance to the offenses advantage. There's also not turning the ball over, the one that really kills teams more than any other trait. It's not flashy, but those traits win way more than they lose...

[CanuckColtsFan]

7 hours ago, FRW said:

"'Also minus the one pick 6 Hoyer looked better than Brissett has recently."

 

 

Except he's a statue. There were probably two or three times Sunday that JB would have run for a first down or avoided a sack because of his mobility. Hoyer went down on all of them. Too bad we don't have a QB with Hoyer's passing skills and JB's mobility. Oh wait we used to. Whatever happened to that guy. That is part of the problem right now. Offensively this team is built for Andrew Luck, not Jacoby Brissett. They are stylistically very different. CB and FR are going have to decide, do they make changes to fit JB's skill set, does or can JB make changes to adapt to the team as it's presently constructed or is someone else brought in to better match the other pieces already in place?

 

That being said if we had a kicker who could make 90% of his PATs, not an unreasonable expectation at this level, we would be 7-1 and tied with NE for first in the AFC.

Well said. 

 

To add, I am surprised that in such sample size, against a middling opponent people are riding the Hoyer train. Jacoby finished knocking off two huge opponents and we have guys saying he's not the QB. It's just kinda weird to me.

[SteelCityColt]

12 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

You just proved my point in how stupid it is putting a asterisk on everything JB does. I was trying to prove a point. It seems everything this team does this year no one wants to give them credit for. Everyone wants to go oh but. You can do that with every team. I can go oh but defense looked good but that team is bad. Everyone has that in there schedule. No team is going to be playing great  teams all 16 games. Or play bad teams all 16.  

I proved your point.. I think not. I think once again you refuse to answer direct questions. 
 

If you find being objective and driven by evidence, and you know doing stuff like forming my own opinion is “putting an asterisk” on things that says more about you. You’ve brought nothing original to this conversation. Mostly second hand regurgitation of opinions that you barley understand yourself. What’s egregious is when you pass it off as your own thoughts without attribution as if people on here don’t read/listen to the same sources.
 

Do you truly believe/understand  half of what you post? 

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

 

I did say he played well against Houston and ATL.

 

But I didn't fall in love with his game.  I saw mainly 1st read type of plays.  That is why I think he's replaceable.  Both of those teams have abysmal secondaries and give up prodigious amounts of yds. and tds through the air though.  Pitt doesn't. It was an impressive game for Hoyerable IMO.

Hoyer's  pick 6 was the difference  in the game. If you could somehow fuse the the two and have a qb not throwing  tds to the other team we might get somewhere

[BigQungus]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I think Mack has as much impact as Gore and Bradshaw did.  I think Doyle is a steady option but Luck had him too.  For all of the comments about Dwayne Allen's stone hands, I'll bet his catch rate was never 58% at any point in a season, like Ebron's.  Not sure why he was a better catcher last year.

 

Our 43 defense makes about as many sacks and turnovers and critical 3rd down stops as did our old 34 defense.  I don't see a big difference when it matters.

 

The reason this is relevant is that there is a growing atmosphere to quickly point out JBs fault's  (and we dig up tape to explain it), as if they can't be corrected after a half a season; when there was an atmosphere of not mentioning Luck's faults (nobody ever dug up tape to show the inaccurate passes or the wide open check down receiver, IIRC), hardly at all despite the faults existing for 5 years.  The fact they may be different faults isn't relevant.

 

 

 

With all due respect, Gore and Bradshaw never produced anywhere near where Mack has been with the Colts at least. 

 

And no, our defense is not as bad as the 3-4 defense.

 

Honestly, if our defense has been just as bad as in our mediocre Luck years, our running game has been just as anemic, the pass catching has presumably been just as bad, and the QB play has regressed since Luck's retirement, how are we 5-3? If you truly believe that, the only thing that has improved since those years is our O line play

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Right now JB is a good enough QB you can build around.  You don’t have to go out and get just  any QB. You can take the time to build the roster stronger and see what happens. If some guy in the future drops to them they think is the next Mahomes in the next couple of drafts maybe they look at that.  Doesn’t seem there are any generational QB this year and if there was they would be gone by the time we picked. This team has a good enough QB to build around and see what they have before taking a chance on a unproven guy.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

You just proved my point in how stupid it is putting a asterisk on everything JB does. I was trying to prove a point. It seems everything this team does this year no one wants to give them credit for. Everyone wants to go oh but. You can do that with every team. I can go oh but defense looked good but that team is bad. Everyone has that in there schedule. No team is going to be playing great  teams all 16 games. Or play bad teams all 16.  

 

9 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

No. I said in that exact post he has been really good despite not even a good WR group. That tells me with everyone healthy he will probably be better. A asterisk means bringing up the opposing teams weakness to discredit him.

One, an asterisk does not mean bringing up the opposing team's weaknesses to discredit him.

 

Two, in your opinion he has been really good and anyone who disagrees with your opinion you are trying to claim they are putting an asterisk by it.

 

Three, a team can only play their schedule that is true but you cannot discount the competition the situation of the games.  And the facts are JB has looked really good against bad secondaries and mediocre against good secondaries.  That is not an asterisk it's not a knock on JB, it is just how I (and others see things)

 

But taking all competition and everything out of it.  When you compare JB's numbers to known good to great QBs, he falls short.

 

This year JB is averaging 7 yards per attempt.  An average less than 7.5 ypa is considered mediocre to bad.

 

JB is averaging 10.8 yards per completion.. Again, an average less than 11.5 ypc is considered mediocre to bad.

 

JB has a 5.9% TD %.  That is good, anything above a 5.3 is good.

 

He has an INT% of 1.3%.  Anything between 1.2 and 1.5 is good.  less than 1.2 is great.

 

Those are the most important stats for a QB and individually they each tell a different story but you you combine that all JB is a good QB but not great and has a lot of work to do to move into that great category because the numbers say that when he gets the team into scoring position he takes advantage of it but he struggles to get the team into scoring position.