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Week 5 impressions: Brissett

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8 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

To be clear I’m in no way advocating to move on from JB. I just don’t blindly think he’s 100% a franchise QB on the evidence... so far. There’s some very encouraging things, but also some areas of concern.

I see your position, and don't disagree.

 

How about something controversial for thought:

 

I think JB is a better QB for this offense than Luck was.  Yes, I'm pretty certain on that but my position is adjustable as we go forward.  Luck is the better QB, but he struggled early last season (probably for a number of reasons) and only started looking good when he started reverting back to looking further down field, like his old days.  You can see the difference in how JB approaches the O and how Luck did. 

 

I like JB's approach better, I think it leads to the entire team playing winning football, a more balanced approach, and a more balanced roster, but he does need to get TY involved more in the long passing game.  If he shows me that he can do that this year, I think I'm good with him.

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2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Goodness, its only been 5 games and it sounds like we're trying to decide now if he should or should not be our QB of the future.  I like what JB has done so far, I don't think there is any question that he's a little short on accumulating big plays so far, but we'll see what happens as he plays through a variety of defenses and situations.

We're not deciding anything.  We're discussing football and people have different opinions, which is the point of being on a forum that's geared towards Colts football.  Yes it's 5 games, and that's enough games to have an opinion the things he's done well or not done well.  I don't see a problem with an ongoing evaluation.  You don't think the team isn't doing the same thing? The only difference is we're fans who can only discuss it, which is why most of us are here.  It means nothing, let alone "deciding" such things.

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If scouts did such a great job evaluating QB you wouldn’t see so many go in the first round and fail. How did Mitch Trubinsky get drafted ahead of Mahomes. There are some bad scouts out there. How did Wilson fall to the third round.

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32 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I don't think that's true.  You can make sense of a lot of a QBs strengths and weaknesses, whether that's arm strength, ability in the pocket, and so on and so forth.  Where most people, including NFL scouts, get it wrong is projecting how that player will progress in an NFL offense.  And that's the most difficult thing about scouting in general, let alone at a position like QB.  

 

Drafting QBs is like drafting baseball players.  Even the highest of baseball draftees often don't pan out.

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6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I see your position, and don't disagree.

 

How about something controversial for thought:

 

I think JB is a better QB for this offense than Luck was.  Yes, I'm pretty certain on that but my position is adjustable as we go forward.  Luck is the better QB, but he struggled early last season (probably for a number of reasons) and only started looking good when he started reverting back to looking further down field, like his old days.  You can see the difference in how JB approaches the O and how Luck did. 

 

I like JB's approach better, I think it leads to the entire team playing winning football, more balanced, and a more balanced roster, but he does need to get TY involved more in the long passing game.  If he shows me that he can do that this year, I think I'm good with him.

I think it’s only a matter of time before he hits Hilton or Cain on some big plays. Maybe that’s the Texans game since TY owns them. He had some pretty elite deep throws in 2017. Some in double coverage right in the bread basket.  Getting Funchess back will only help TY and Cain.

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5 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

We're not deciding anything.  We're discussing football and people have different opinions, which is the point of being on a forum that's geared towards Colts football.  Yes it's 5 games, and that's enough games to have an opinion the things he's done well or not done well.  I don't see a problem with an ongoing evaluation.  You don't think the team isn't doing the same thing? The only difference is we're fans who can only discuss it, which is why most of us are here.  It means nothing, let alone "deciding" such things.

I read some comments about what we should do in the draft already.  Giving away picks to maybe even move up to get a QB.  I simply thought that its a bit of an extreme projection after 5 games.

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

Drafting QBs is like drafting baseball players.  Even the highest of baseball draftees often don't pan out.

Yep.  Physical gifts only get you so far.  What separates the good ones and the bad ones is what goes on between the ears.  That's an obvious oversimplification, but I think makes the point well enough.

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8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I see your position, and don't disagree.

 

How about something controversial for thought:

 

I think JB is a better QB for this offense than Luck was.  Yes, I'm pretty certain on that but my position is adjustable as we go forward.  Luck is the better QB, but he struggled early last season (probably for a number of reasons) and only started looking good when he started reverting back to looking further down field, like his old days.  You can see the difference in how JB approaches the O and how Luck did. 

 

I like JB's approach better, I think it leads to the entire team playing winning football, a more balanced approach, and a more balanced roster, but he does need to get TY involved more in the long passing game.  If he shows me that he can do that this year, I think I'm good with him.

 

Luck had LeRaven Clark at left tackle when the season started.  That should be enough by itself for everyone to disregard the first weeks of the season last year.

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15 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I see your position, and don't disagree.

 

How about something controversial for thought:

 

I think JB is a better QB for this offense than Luck was.  Yes, I'm pretty certain on that but my position is adjustable as we go forward.  Luck is the better QB, but he struggled early last season (probably for a number of reasons) and only started looking good when he started reverting back to looking further down field, like his old days.  You can see the difference in how JB approaches the O and how Luck did. 

 

I like JB's approach better, I think it leads to the entire team playing winning football, a more balanced approach, and a more balanced roster, but he does need to get TY involved more in the long passing game.  If he shows me that he can do that this year, I think I'm good with him.


Well...that's definitely controversial. I just can't get with the thought that our offense, or team for that matter, is better with JB than it is with Luck.

 

Even if you're just strictly talking about who fits better, I'd still argue a talent/mind like Luck fits any team better than JB. Especially because a team's strength (in our case, run game) won't always be humming. And when that's the case I think you'd want a guy like Luck who could carry the load.

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think it’s only a matter of time before he hits Hilton or Cain on some big plays. Maybe that’s the Texans game since TY owns them. He had some pretty elite deep throws in 2017. Some in double coverage right in the bread basket.  Getting Funchess back will only help TY and Cain.

Yes, this team has needed a competent and steady number 2 receiver for a long time.  Ebron was that for Luck last year, but hasn't been reliable for JB so far.

 

If Funchess is not the answer, any new QB we bring in is going to deal with the same issue.  I don't think any QB looks good with only 1 real receiving option.

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13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I see your position, and don't disagree.

 

How about something controversial for thought:

 

I think JB is a better QB for this offense than Luck was.  Yes, I'm pretty certain on that but my position is adjustable as we go forward.  Luck is the better QB, but he struggled early last season (probably for a number of reasons) and only started looking good when he started reverting back to looking further down field, like his old days.  You can see the difference in how JB approaches the O and how Luck did. 

 

I like JB's approach better, I think it leads to the entire team playing winning football, a more balanced approach, and a more balanced roster, but he does need to get TY involved more in the long passing game.  If he shows me that he can do that this year, I think I'm good with him.

 

If a team's offense is better with Brissett at QB than with Luck you have to seriously be thinking about 1. Changing the offense. and 2. Changing the coach.

 

edit: BTW we are not running the same offense now that we were running last year. Reich knows his QB's strengths and weaknesses and adjusts the offense he runs to mask the deficiencies and exploit the strong sides of his team and QB(since the QB is the most important piece in any offense). 

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

Luck had LeRaven Clark at left tackle when the season started.  That should be enough by itself for everyone to disregard the first weeks of the season last year.

I agree. 

 

Luck had a great year, but it started looking a lot like every other offense we've had, more than the different offense I was expecting to see with Reich.  This year looks more like what I expected.

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I read some comments about what we should do in the draft already.  Giving away picks to maybe even move up to get a QB.  I simply thought that its a bit of an extreme projection after 5 games.

That's true enough, and I think those guys are smart enough to know Jacoby is our guy right now and draft projections change drastically between now and the draft.  I don't think that precludes hypothetical discussion though.  I haven't even begun to look at draft prospects yet, because we're in season and I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts.  I still like discussing what ifs.

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1 minute ago, stitches said:

 

If a teams offense is better with Brissett at QB than with Luck you have to seriously be thinking about 1. Changing the offense. and 2. Changing the coach. 

IDK.  I like our offense.  As I said, it could use more big plays but I like the balance.  I'm not arguing the Luck success, but the style was similar to PMs, and even Mahommes to a degre, in that it almost exclusively relied upon the big play.  Ball control was sort of an afterthought.  Just not my cup of tea.

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Yes, this team has needed a competent and steady number 2 receiver for a long time.  Ebron was that for Luck last year, but hasn't been reliable for JB so far.

 

If Funchess is not the answer, any new QB we bring in is going to deal with the same issue.  I don't think any QB looks good with only 1 real receiving option.

 

Even with the injuries, the receivers are way better than last year.  Maybe Ebron was good because of Luck?  We had all kinds of drops last year too.  We had TY, Ryan Grant Marcus Johsnon Pascal as a rookie and Chester.  That is a real crappy group.

 

I think people underestimate the ability of Luck to elevate the roster.  I don't see that JB is elevating the production of any player.

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6 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:


Well...that's definitely controversial. I just can't get with the thought that our offense, or team for that matter, is better with JB than it is with Luck.

 

Even if you're just strictly talking about who fits better, but I'd still argue a talent/mind like Luck fits any team better than JB. Especially because a team's strength (our run game) won't always be humming like it was vs the Chiefs, and when that's the case, I think you'd want a guy like Luck.

In fairness, Luck wasn't always on his A game.  But your point is still well taken with me.  At the end of the day, you want the best players on your roster playing, which is why Luck was playing and Brissett was his backup.  This year, that's not the case since Luck is obviously not with us anymore.

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9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I agree. 

 

Luck had a great year, but it started looking a lot like every other offense we've had, more than the different offense I was expecting to see with Reich.  This year looks more like what I expected.

 

Yes, but I'm pretty shocked you don't see that the offense would almost certainly be more productive with Luck.

 

I mean the only thing I could see people thinking is that JB turns it over less.  Maybe, but after the Oline was stabilized Luck threw only 7 picks in the last 10 games.  Thats pretty good.  

 

 

And yeah, Luck would make some boneheaded throws even last year that made you be like wth was that Andy.

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4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

IDK.  I like our offense.  As I said, it could use more big plays but I like the balance.  I'm not arguing the Luck success, but the style was similar to PMs, and even Mahommes to a degre, in that it almost exclusively relied upon the big play.  Ball control was sort of an afterthought.  Just not my cup of tea.

I think you are severely overestimating this team's ability to control the ball based on a single outlier game. Where was that ball control in last game? We gashed a severely injured Chiefs DLine that was horrible BEFORE the injuries that took away both their starting DTs during the game. You cannot rely on ball control to win you games consistently in this league. You can rely on top notch QB performance to win you games consistently. 

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4 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Yes, but I'm pretty shocked you don't see that the offense would almost certainly be more productive with Luck.

 

I mean the only thing I could see people thinking is that JB turns it over less.  Maybe, but after the Oline was stabilized Luck threw only 7 picks in the last 10 games.  Thats pretty good.  

 

 

And yeah, Luck would make some boneheaded throws even last year that made you be like wth was that Andy.

Yeah that's the thing.  I think Luck's offense would have more success, but I don't know if that success would lead to winning more games.  And when it failed, it looked miserable.

 

I don't think JBs offense, as it stands, will result in more wins than Luck's O, but if we can get defenses to think about us converting more chunk plays, I think it can.

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6 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think you are severely overestimating this team's ability to control the ball based on a single outlier game. Where was that ball control in last game? We gashed a severely injured Chiefs DLine that was horrible BEFORE the injuries that took away both their starting DTs during the game. You cannot rely on ball control to win you games consistently in this league. You can rely on top notch QB performance to win you games consistently. 

Yep.  Can't do that to most NFL defenses.  

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5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yeah that's the thing.  I think Luck's offense would have more success, but I don't know if that success would lead to winning more games.  And when it failed, it looked miserable.

 

I don't think JBs offense, as it stands, will result in more wins than Luck's O, but if we can get defenses to think about us converting more chunk plays, I think it can.

 

Dude, I'll just say that I think we'd be way better off with Luck in all situations.  JB has thrown two very very bad picks the last two weeks while producing very little.

 

The late TD to Ebron last week was possibly the best play JB has "made" this year, and really the only thing of significance IMO he's done since ATL.  Big Ben Esque, slid away from the D and hit Ebron.  Great play by Ebron though too.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Yep.  Can't do that to most NFL defenses.  

I mean... I understand DougDew's sentiment, though... I was power tripping while watching the game too. It was a sight to behold. They knew exactly what we were going to do and they couldn't do anything about it. It was like Quenton and AC were telling their defenders before every play "look at the LOS... at the end of the play you are ending up  at least 5 yards on your side of that line..." and then we snapped the ball and they did it... and then they did it again... and again... and again... and again. In a certain way it was a beautiful thing to watch, but as you said - you cannot do anything close to that to most teams in the league. 

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35 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

No scout worth their salt looks at college numbers as the be all and end all. Absolute tosh to suggest avoiding talent from big schools. 

 

True. Part of the evaluation of any player is acknowledging his teammates, his coaches, the opposition, and pretty much any other information you have access to. This is why there's a difference between watching Internet cut-ups and "scouting." 

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Im fine with JB if he can start giving me more performances that look like the Chargers and Falcons.  I have doubts if we keep seeing performances like the Titans and Chiefs.  I think the Raiders game was more a function of receivers dropping the football that hurt his performance. 

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16 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Even with the injuries, the receivers are way better than last year.  Maybe Ebron was good because of Luck?  We had all kinds of drops last year too.  We had TY, Ryan Grant Marcus Johsnon Pascal as a rookie and Chester.  That is a real crappy group.

 

I think people underestimate the ability of Luck to elevate the roster.  I don't see that JB is elevating the production of any player.

Outside of TY, I think you put all of the receivers we've had over the past five years into a bag and shake them up, they all come out the same guy.  JAGs.  Hopefully, some of the new guys will change that.  Ebron had a good year, but his drops have been noticeable so far. 

 

Luck is/was better, don't get me wrong.  What I'm saying is that we brought Reich in to change the offense away from Chud, (Luck was already successful under Chud when he wasn't injured).  I just never got the sense that it changed much last year under Luck.  With JB, we can better see what Reich is trying to do, IMO.  I like the style better.  Probably also why I like TEs like Doyle more than TEs like Ebron.  

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10 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Dude, I'll just say that I think we'd be way better off with Luck in all situations.  JB has thrown two very very bad picks the last two weeks while producing very little.

 

The late TD to Ebron last week was possibly the best play JB has "made" this year, and really the only thing of significance IMO he's done since ATL.  Big Ben Esque, slid away from the D and hit Ebron.  Great play by Ebron though too.

 

 

Yes.  JB needs to do more of that to take the next step to be considered our QB.  He's not there yet, and maybe he never will be.  What I'm saying is that I don't care for an offense that relies upon the QB doing that in order to score its points.  That's how I see Luck and Mahomes, and PM to a degree. 

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29 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I agree. 

 

Luck had a great year, but it started looking a lot like every other offense we've had, more than the different offense I was expecting to see with Reich.  This year looks more like what I expected.

 

The offense evolved over the course of the season, but it wasn't anything like how it was before Reich. 

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14 minutes ago, stitches said:

I mean... I understand DougDew's sentiment, though... I was power tripping while watching the game too. It was a sight to behold. They knew exactly what we were going to do and they couldn't do anything about it. It was like Quenton and AC were telling their defenders before every play "look at the LOS... at the end of the play you are ending up  at least 5 yards on your side of that line..." and then we snapped the ball and they did it... and then they did it again... and again... and again... and again. In a certain way it was a beautiful thing to watch, but as you said - you cannot do anything close to that to most teams in the league. 

 

It was like 80s HS football man.  When I was 9 years the high school I went to won the state title doing this.  Our coach used to say, "Hey diddle, diddle 3 yds up the middle.

14 minutes ago, stitches said:

I mean... I understand DougDew's sentiment, though... I was power tripping while watching the game too. It was a sight to behold. They knew exactly what we were going to do and they couldn't do anything about it. It was like Quenton and AC were telling their defenders before every play "look at the LOS... at the end of the play you are ending up  at least 5 yards on your side of that line..." and then we snapped the ball and they did it... and then they did it again... and again... and again... and again. In a certain way it was a beautiful thing to watch, but as you said - you cannot do anything close to that to most teams in the league. 

 

 

And we used to have season tix when Edge played.  Was there when he got injured.  I knew he was out for the season immediatley the way he was moving.

 

But we used to say run it, run it, run it.  Go three plays, left *, rigtht *, left *.  *ads

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I won’t be surprised if the Texans beat the chiefs. Your starting to see what happens to a team when you become one dimensional. It eventually falls apart because teams figure it out or injuries happen.  I have seen to much from JB in highlight videos to know that it is eventually going to come. 

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12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Outside of TY, I think you put all of the receivers we've had over the past five years into a bag and shake them up, they all come out the same guy.  JAGs.  Hopefully, some of the new guys will change that.  Ebron had a good year, but his drops have been noticeable so far. 

 

Luck is/was better, don't get me wrong.  What I'm saying is that we brought Reich in to change the offense away from Chud, (Luck was already successful under Chud when he wasn't injured).  I just never got the sense that it changed much last year under Luck.  With JB, we can better see what Reich is trying to do, IMO.  I like the style better.  Probably also why I like TEs like Doyle more than TEs like Ebron.  

 

I think the offense was way different.  Not all plays were downfield.  Lots of short stuff to set up the longer chunks.  Looked really solid at times.

 

I think Doyle is s a good receiver.  I think that Pascal this year is better than last year and that corpses are at least as good as Grant and Johnson.  Ebron is probably open as often as anyone in the league when he is running routes.

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

The offense evolved over the course of the season, but it wasn't anything like how it was before Reich. 

Maybe not from an xs and Os standpoint, but the passing game looked similar with a lot of big chunk plays down field, at least to me it looked that way.  This year it looks more like the Foles Eagles O than last year, but without some playmakers like Ertz and Sproles (Hines ain't no Sproles).

 

It would be interesting to see how the season ends up in comparing the number of 3 and outs this year to last.  The first five games would be a poor comparison due to how we started last year.  

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5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

But we used to say run it, run it, run it.  Go three plays, left *, rigtht *, left *.  *ads

I know that playbook from somewhere...

 

image.png.322ca08c1a20c504b23fce22f871d16c.png

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think it’s only a matter of time before he hits Hilton or Cain on some big plays. Maybe that’s the Texans game since TY owns them. He had some pretty elite deep throws in 2017. Some in double coverage right in the bread basket.  Getting Funchess back will only help TY and Cain.


I hope so, as Hilton’s YPC is 9.7. That’s nowhere near his previous seasons. Now if the Colts are winning ball games, it’s immaterial. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

After the Monday night game I really want a nick bosa on defense rather then a QB. If this team develops on defense this year I really would like to trade up to get a stud like that on defense.  Then after the 2020 season we can revaluate. I agree if we do eventually have to turn to a rookie it will be a good situation. It also will give JB two years to improve and the young WR to grow. You really want to give him time so you don’t make a mistake by giving up to soon. Right now we are in a better position then last year.

I definitely agree that with a consistent, if limited, QB under center, working on the D is probably a smarter bet. 

 

I would also look to improve our offensive weapons, because other than TY the cupboard is really bare and it's hard to judge whether JB's occasional issues are the result of his poor judgment or whether the real issue is the lack of reliable targets

 

If we get an elite pass rushing LB in the first round, and picked up a talented RB and a WR in the second round, that would be my ideal draft. 

 

I also think we should draft a young QB in the third or fourth round, because you never lock yourself into one option unreasonably.

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2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Maybe not from an xs and Os standpoint, but the passing game looked similar with a lot of big chunk plays down field, at least to me it looked that way.  This year it looks more like the Foles Eagles O than last year, but without some playmakers like Ertz and Sproles (Hines ain't no Sproles).

 

It would be interesting to see how the season ends up in comparing the number of 3 and outs this year to last.  The first five games would be a poor comparison due to how we started last year.  

 

The only reasons there weren't chunk plays early in the season, from my understanding, is that Luck was playing his way back into a rhythm, and the OL was beat up. But I don't think it was ever the intention to significantly reduce chunk plays. The intention was to scheme more efficient plays into the passing game and get the ball out quicker, not to avoid going downfield.

 

The ball did come out quicker, on average. In 2016, Luck's average time to throw was 2.88 seconds, in 2018 it went down to 2.63. There were a few games where it was a little higher than they probably wanted, like the Jags shutout. But the passing game stressed efficiency from Week 1 to the end of the season.

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10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The only reasons there weren't chunk plays early in the season, from my understanding, is that Luck was playing his way back into a rhythm, and the OL was beat up. But I don't think it was ever the intention to significantly reduce chunk plays. The intention was to scheme more efficient plays into the passing game and get the ball out quicker, not to avoid going downfield.

 

The ball did come out quicker, on average. In 2016, Luck's average time to throw was 2.88 seconds, in 2018 it went down to 2.63. There were a few games where it was a little higher than they probably wanted, like the Jags shutout. But the passing game stressed efficiency from Week 1 to the end of the season.

Yes, that ball release stat is huge, and we tried to make it a large departure from the Chud offense. (Maybe Luck didn't reduce it more because of who he is?)

 

Speaking of JB, I think having a player like Sproles would illuminate some things.  JB probably will always need some help in opening up things downfield for him compared to Luck, and Hines just isn't that threat to get a big play from a pass near the LOS, which is what that would do.  

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20 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I won’t be surprised if the Texans beat the chiefs. Your starting to see what happens to a team when you become one dimensional. It eventually falls apart because teams figure it out or injuries happen.  I have seen to much from JB in highlight videos to know that it is eventually going to come. 

 

The Chiefs are not one dimensional. They played a bad game, we played a good game, but we didn't expose some fatal flaw in their offense. It was just our day.

 

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19 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

I definitely agree that with a consistent, if limited, QB under center, working on the D is probably a smarter bet. 

 

I would also look to improve our offensive weapons, because other than TY the cupboard is really bare and it's hard to judge whether JB's occasional issues are the result of his poor judgment or whether the real issue is the lack of reliable targets

 

If we get an elite pass rushing LB in the first round, and picked up a talented RB and a WR in the second round, that would be my ideal draft. 

 

I also think we should draft a young QB in the third or fourth round, because you never lock yourself into one option unreasonably.

 

 

I disagree with the idea that we lack weapons.  Mack, Hines, Wilkins are all weapons.  Ebron and Doyle too.  Cain has stretched the D.

 

It's probably from everything I've heard that there are open guys with all the protection and JB is bailing early and/or not seeing plays come open.  I think we have a lot of weapons.  You can't every have too much I guess, but I think the teams weakness are QB, interior D line, and LB in that order.  That is the order I would draft if good players were available.

 

I'm still high on Cain.  Campbell will always be a threat when he's on the field.

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6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The Chiefs are not one dimensional. They played a bad game, we played a good game, but we didn't expose some fatal flaw in their offense. It was just our day.

 

 

Mahomes ankle definitely limited them in the 2nd half too.  But our pass rush was incredible.  The name the sack pack thread could be legitimate again.

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3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Mahomes ankle definitely limited them in the 2nd half too.  But our pass rush was incredible.  The name the sack pack thread could be legitimate again.

Not to head in that direction, but aren't they basically the same guys who didn't give us much of a pass rush every other game?  Turay got some pressure at LAC, but their LT isn't very good and I don't think KCs Cameron Erving is either.

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