Week 5 impressions: Brissett

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

And we cut Denzelle Good at RG in favor of Glow.  Just saying.

 Glow isn't great but RG is the one Olineman you can kinda cover for if the other guys are good.

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Do you think Rogers is worse than last year or do you think Reich is wrongly evaluating the talent then?  Can't be both ways really.  If Rogers isn't good enough this year, we are either better or the coaches are wrong or we're worse off.

They're not wrong.  They realize the guys we had last year were not good enough, so they let bring in Campbell and keep Cain around and put Rogers down the depth chart to get the younger guys with the higher ceiling more PT.  Not playing Rogers at WR doesn't necessarily mean he isn't immediately better than anybody who is playing above him.  It means, IMO, they want the guys with the higher ceiling to achieve that ceiling ASAP.  

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 Glow isn't great but RG is the one Olineman you can kinda cover for if the other guys are good.

I'm not complaining.  Its happens in the NFL.  But Good seems to be playing well on a good Oline.

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Last year Inman stepped up too.  I don't think that Luck accounts for all of the difference.  Luck struggled too over the course of his career when TY was doubled and there were few other options. 

 

He was OK, but i don't he's not very coveted around the league.  He played decent for us for the back half of the season but still projected below CHESTER FRIGGIN ROGERS stats from last year.  

 

And all Chester does is field punts.

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Last year Inman stepped up too.  I don't think that Luck accounts for all of the difference.  Luck struggled too over the course of his career when TY was doubled and there were few other options. 

We have lost every game TY has missed in his career. Look how bad we were struggling until Inman was brought in. 

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

They're not wrong.  They realize the guys we had last year were not good enough, so they let bring in Campbell and keep Cain around and put Rogers down the depth chart to get the younger guys with the higher ceiling more PT.  Not playing Rogers at WR doesn't necessarily mean he isn't immediately better than anybody who is playing above him.  It means, IMO, they want the guys with the higher ceiling to achieve that ceiling ASAP.  

I'm not complaining.  Its happens in the NFL.  But Good seems to be playing well on a good Oline.

 

I was telling one dude that when you have Leraven Clark, you are going to look pretty bad.  Wasn't kelley late to the part last year too if I remember right?

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

He was OK, but i don't he's not very coveted around the league.  He played decent for us for the back half of the season but still projected below CHESTER FRIGGIN ROGERS stats from last year.  

 

And all Chester does is field punts.

He gets more snaps then you think. I see the snap count after every game that is posted. He isn’t that far away from pascal.

[DougDew]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

We have lost every game TY has missed in his career. Look how bad we were struggling until Inman was brought in. 

Is that true?  My, that's telling.

 

 

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

I was telling one dude that when you have Leraven Clark, you are going to look pretty bad.  Wasn't kelley late to the part last year too if I remember right?

I'm missing your point.  But yes, the oline struggled, as did Luck, when AC and Kelly were out.

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

Chester Rogers has 40 snaps and one target last weekend. Ideally he should have almost zero. You don’t want him having that many and that is what happens when guys are injured.

[Nickster]

Just now, DougDew said:

I'm missing your point.  But yes, the oline struggled, as did Luck, when AC and Kelly were out.

 

The point is and this is funny and I don't think I'm disagreeing with anything you are saying here is that  now get ready for it

 

Maybe Good wasn't that bad.  

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Is that true?  My, that's telling.

 

 

Yep. All five. I think that included two games last season. Colts are snake bitten when it comes to WR.

[Nickster]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

Chester Rogers has 40 snaps and one target last weekend. Ideally he should have almost zero. You don’t want him having that many and that is what happens when guys are injured.

That's why I said all he does is field punts.  

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

4 minutes ago, Nickster said:

That's why I said all he does is field punts.  

Well then you prove my point about WR. Because of injuries he is having to play more and that’s not good if you have to rely on Rogers at wide receiver. We are not that deep or good at WR right now. By the end of the season we might be. Getting DF back and Cain developing and gaining chemistry with JB we might be pretty good. Right now it’s a liability. Right now TY has nobody.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

The point is and this is funny and I don't think I'm disagreeing with anything you are saying here is that  now get ready for it

 

Maybe Good wasn't that bad.  

Yeah, he was nicked up, and wasn't there some dust up about missing time to attend his brother's funeral or something?

[Nickster]

9 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Yep. All five. I think that included two games last season. Colts are snake bitten when it comes to WR.

 

I don't think so.  We have one really good one.  We have a guy in Pascal who is effective this year especially when you consider his blocking.  He was one guy I thought could be productive in that poo poo show last year. He's OK.  

 

We have plenty of receiving weapons IMO.  Good backs.  Good TEs.  Probably average or a little below wide receiving corps as a unit.  

 

Funchess might have helped but I was never convinced of that.  Hopefully we'll see.

 

I think below average QB play is a huge factor in the lackluster passing game.  TYs ypc is a tellng telling sign.

 

But let me go on record I don't think the WR are great, but I do think they are fair to middling compared to the rest of the league and I think they are probably a better unit than last year.  Grant, Johnson,Ruogers all played huge roles in the unit last year.

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Yep. All five. I think that included two games last season. Colts are snake bitten when it comes to WR.

Well, that's a small sample size but 100% of a small sample usually means something.

[Nickster]

Just now, DougDew said:

Yeah, he was nicked up, and wasn't there some dust up about missing time to attend his brother's funeral or something?

 

Vaguely remember that.  God you would hope that wouldn't count against him.  You would think a guy could have the week off if his brother passed.

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

 

 

But let me go on record I don't think the WR are great, but I do think they are fair to middling compared to the rest of the league and I think they are probably a better unit than last year.  Grant, Johnson,Ruogers all played huge roles in the unit last year.

If you include Funchess and Campbell, the WR corps is definitely better.  Two additions that recognized previous deficiencies. 

 

But who has actually been active and played so far?

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If you include Funchess and Campbell, the WR corps is definitely better.  Two additions that recognized previous deficiencies. 

 

But who has actually been active and played so far?

 

Again I am comparing them mostly to themselves last year.  And the WR unit was godawful until the middle of the season.   

 

Pascal, Cain, TY, Rogers, Parris until this week.  Coupled with good TEs and Hines, its not bad.  THen you have a great line and effective running game.  

We don't have a superstar skill player, TY is close, but overall I think we have above average talent.  I really think a big part of the reason we aren't seeing production is poor QBing.  Poor reading.  Throws too hot.  Don't care what anyone says, you have to use some touch.  That's a dumb idea that if it hits your hands you should catch it.  Hogwash.  Even Favre learned to take some off sometimes.

Some people were defending the 5 yd pass over the middle to Doyle in week one that bounced off his helmet.  In his hands but was a terrible, unnecessarily difficult throw to catch.

[Nickster]

Nice chatting with you guys.  Wife's looking at me with the WTH look in her eyes.  

 

Get healthy boys.

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

Once again teams are not worried about pascal or Rogers going deep. In a perfect world they are your 4th and 5th options to get the ball to.

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Again I am comparing them mostly to themselves last year.  And the WR unit was godawful until the middle of the season.   

 

Pascal, Cain, TY, Rogers, Parris until this week.  Coupled with good TEs and Hines, its not bad.  THen you have a great line and effective running game.  

We don't have a superstar skill player, TY is close, but overall I think we have above average talent.  I really think a big part of the reason we aren't seeing production is poor QBing.  Poor reading.  Throws too hot.  Don't care what anyone says, you have to use some touch.  That's a dumb idea that if it hits your hands you should catch it.  Hogwash.  Even Favre learned to take some off sometimes.

Some people were defending the 5 yd pass over the middle to Doyle in week one that bounced off his helmet.  In his hands but was a terrible, unnecessarily difficult throw to catch.

Oh, you're going for an angle that says its all on JB and not the receivers. 

 

I don't know about JB, I think he can learn and grow, but I think TY and Doyle are the only receivers that have contributed positively on a consistent basis over the past 4 years, outside of Ebron last year, and  Inman.  I haven't seen enough of Campbell and Cain to say one way or the other.

 

I thought Pascal didn't make the team last year with the group we had, but now makes it this year?

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Again I am comparing them mostly to themselves last year.  And the WR unit was godawful until the middle of the season.   

 

Pascal, Cain, TY, Rogers, Parris until this week.  Coupled with good TEs and Hines, its not bad.  THen you have a great line and effective running game.  

We don't have a superstar skill player, TY is close, but overall I think we have above average talent.  I really think a big part of the reason we aren't seeing production is poor QBing.  Poor reading.  Throws too hot.  Don't care what anyone says, you have to use some touch.  That's a dumb idea that if it hits your hands you should catch it.  Hogwash.  Even Favre learned to take some off sometimes.

Some people were defending the 5 yd pass over the middle to Doyle in week one that bounced off his helmet.  In his hands but was a terrible, unnecessarily difficult throw to catch.

The raiders game is the only game this team has had trouble catching passes. Did you not see how hard Mahomes threw that ball Sunday on his only TD. That was a bullett.

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Oh, you're going for an angle that says its all on JB and not the receivers. 

 

I don't know about JB, I think he can learn and grow, but I think TY and Doyle are the only receivers that have contributed positively on a consistent basis over the past 4 years, outside of Ebron last year, and  Inman.  I haven't seen enough of Campbell and Cain to say one way or the other.

 

I thought Pascal didn't make the team last year with the group we had, but now makes it this year?

Plus you can’t even compare when DF has played one game.  By the end of the season hopefully we will have the entire group back and we will be able to evaluate them better the last six games or so. Ballard even said not to expect much from Cain until half way through the season. He has way more snaps then what they have wanted with the DF injury.

[OffensivelyPC]

 

2 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I find it odd that people are knocking on drafting a QB, for among other reasons having to dumb down the offense, but are ok with the idea JB is only ready for one or two reads a play. If that’s true of course.  

 

He’s not a rookie and has been in the system long enough that it strikes me as being patently untrue or worrying as hell. 

It ereally doesn't make sense to me either. Why wouldn't you want to improve the position if you could? The Ravens appear pretty happy to have moved on from Flacco. Bengals still have Andy Dalton and have been aggressively mediocre for a decade under him.

 

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

See that is red flag concerning to me.  OK. We are going 1 or 2 reads.  Why on Earth then would you stare down the receiver?  Makes no sense with half field reads.  This is the thing that makes me think JB has little chance to improve.  

 

If you are go half field, then look around.  He usually locks on and draws defenders to the play side like flies on a rib roast.  It’s hard to get open when the D shifts with the QBs eyes.

And that will eventually get exploited. The better you are about concealing your intentions and tendencies, the more you keep opponents guessing, which gives you an advantage. When you only scan half the field though...

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

 

It ereally doesn't make sense to me either. Why wouldn't you want to improve the position if you could? The Ravens appear pretty happy to have moved on from Flacco. Bengals still have Andy Dalton and have been aggressively mediocre for a decade under him.

 

And that will eventually get exploited. The better you are about concealing your intentions and tendencies, the more you keep opponents guessing, which gives you an advantage. When you only scan half the field though...

I think the difference is that with Flacco and Dalton, the teams knew what they had.  Coupling the unknown with the price it would take to draft a knew QB, and that there is also a risk of the unknown with that, I think the wise decision would be to get more data on JB.

 

I don't know about seeing half the field.  I know several times this year I've seen him move his eyes across the field only to then sharply turn and dump the ball off short, as if he knew that was an option all along.  He doesn't seem to take a sack or throw a pick under those circumstances. 

 

Frankly, in 5 games I've seen JB do the last second dump off about as much as I saw Luck do it in 5 years, but that's probably an exaggeration.

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

 

It ereally doesn't make sense to me either. Why wouldn't you want to improve the position if you could? The Ravens appear pretty happy to have moved on from Flacco. Bengals still have Andy Dalton and have been aggressively mediocre for a decade under him.

 

And that will eventually get exploited. The better you are about concealing your intentions and tendencies, the more you keep opponents guessing, which gives you an advantage. When you only scan half the field though...

I think JB can be better than Flacco or just as good from what I have seen. Flacco was good when the Ravens had a solid defense. I never really thought Andy Dalton would do much. I considered him average in his prime but then again playing in Cincy didn't help his cause.

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

What I think is funny is people take one or two plays out of a entire game and ignore all the others.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

What I think is funny is people take one or two plays out of a entire game and ignore all the others.

That is what people do to fit their narrative in a debate.

[OffensivelyPC]

56 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think the difference is that with Flacco and Dalton, the teams knew what they had.  Coupling the unknown with the price it would take to draft a knew QB, and that there is also a risk of the unknown with that, I think the wise decision would be to get more data on JB.

 

I don't know about seeing half the field.  I know several times this year I've seen him move his eyes across the field only to then sharply turn and dump the ball off short, as if he knew that was an option all along.  He doesn't seem to take a sack or throw a pick under those circumstances. 

 

Frankly, in 5 games I've seen JB do the last second dump off about as much as I saw Luck do it in 5 years, but that's probably an exaggeration.

Im not talking about checkdowns. Im talking more about manipulating safeties and coverages. Jacoby understands the safety valve, he isnt anywhere near mastering the ability of moving coverages away from where he wants to throw the ball.  He has done it, he just doesn't do it as often as he should.

 

Dont get me wrong, thats not to say Reich and Brissett cant work around it. Theyve been doing that. I'm just saying it's a knock against him. If I recall Brady's early days correctly, he labored with the same problem. Not insurmountable, clearly.

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I find it odd that people are knocking on drafting a QB, for among other reasons having to dumb down the offense, but are ok with the idea JB is only ready for one or two reads a play. If that’s true of course.  

 

He’s not a rookie and has been in the system long enough that it strikes me as being patently untrue or worrying as hell. 

 

I'm not against drafting a QB. (for years I wanted to use a 3rd rounder or so on a backup QB2 that could be decent if Luck should be out injured)

 

But doesn't he have to be identified as having potential of overcoming the deficiencies of and having a higher ceiling than JB7 and C. Kelly?  (Franchise top tier) Otherwise, why bother, unless CK and Hoyer aren't good enough to be QB2 or QB1?

 

Then the question becomes, when do you demote JB7 and give the new guy #1 reps in practice and start games? Lot's of moving parts in this decision. Curious how people feel, if and where do we draft the new QB. And the future vision.

[chad72]

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

It’s so weird with Ebron how he has trouble with easy catches and makes the hard ones look easy.

 

Sounds like a guy we knew, Pierre Garcon. :) 

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

Has anyone looked at the opponents we play the next five games. Four of the five teams we play are bad at rush defense. Houston is the best at 12. We are 17. The other four teams are near the bottom. I have a feeling we are going to see a lot of Mack.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Has anyone looked at the opponents we play the next five games. Four of the five teams we play are bad at rush defense. Houston is the best at 12. We are 17. The other four teams are near the bottom. I have a feeling we are going to see a lot of Mack.

As long as we split with Houston we will be in good shape, I seen our schedule. This is about to become fun 

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

As long as we split with Houston we will be in good shape, I seen our schedule. This is about to become fun 

This next five games is going to tell a lot about this team. The Texan game will be hard but there is no excuse to lose any of the next four. Jags game might be interesting but again they are bad at run defense.  They need to take care of business. Will they be the team that lost to the raiders or the one that beat the chiefs. 

[Imgrandojji]

1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Im not talking about checkdowns. Im talking more about manipulating safeties and coverages. Jacoby understands the safety valve, he isnt anywhere near mastering the ability of moving coverages away from where he wants to throw the ball.  He has done it, he just doesn't do it as often as he should.

 

Dont get me wrong, thats not to say Reich and Brissett cant work around it. Theyve been doing that. I'm just saying it's a knock against him. If I recall Brady's early days correctly, he labored with the same problem. Not insurmountable, clearly.

I kinda feel like that's only going to come with any young QB as he gains experience.  You're talking about veteran QB skills.  The good news is that JB has a decent chance to develop those skills as he gains experience, at least to the point that he'll become better at them than he is right now.

 

Remember, Brissett may have 4 years service time but he's halfway through his second season as an NFL starter.  These things take time.  Personally I'm very pleased with what he's accomplished so far. 

 

To be able to play relatively mistake free and be able to do enough to keep the team in the game more often than not isn't bad for a nonelite QB in his second year as a starter.  Hopefully he develops more savvy and flair as he settles into the job.  Either way, as long as we're either winning or putting up a good fight when we lose I'm OK to let the experiment continue

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

This next five games is going to tell a lot about this team. The Texan game will be hard but there is no excuse to lose the next four. Jags game might be interesting but again they are bad at run defense.  They need to take care of business. Will they be the team that lost to the raiders or the one that beat the chiefs. 

We got this. Here is my reasoning, we play some bad teams coming up with the exception of Houston. I simply trust our Coach, I have never said that as a Colts fan in 35 years. Even with Dungy I did not say it.

[Imgrandojji]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Then the question becomes, when do you demote JB7 and give the new guy #1 reps in practice and start games? Lot's of moving parts in this decision. Curious how people feel, if and where do we draft the new QB. And the future vision.

That's the question that should keep us from drafting a QB in the first round next year.  If you have a QB that is effective, even if he's somewhat limited, it's awful hard to pull the trigger on a replacement.

 

Honestly in terms of QB depth we're already in a solid situation.  Kelly will do as an insurance QB.  As long as we have him I'd bend our draft priorities towards other areas of need.

 

(and for those who think teams don't draft for need... you're simply wrong, if you disagree with me, count all the times the Patriots drafted a QB in the first round over the last 20 years.  Oh wait...)

 

Honestly most of the time teams wait for these decisions to be made for them, either by the starter becoming ineffective, the starter getting hurt, or the starter's contract with the team ending. 

 

So that's the dynamic you look for if you want to predict when we'd be moving on from JB7.  If Brissett is either hurt, sucks, or has left for greener pastures, then the new guy comes in.  Until then expect ownership and coaching to stick with the devil they know.

 

This is for all the Kellyphiles still haunting the forum to bear in mind too, although I'm guessing you're already painfully aware.

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

For all the complaining about JB has anyone looked at Jimmy G stats in San Fran. I don’t think their fans are worried with a undefeated record. JB has about 100 more yards and 3 more TD. Jimmy G yards per attempt has been under 7 in two games one at around 8 and one at around w12.

[SteelCityColt]

5 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

What I think is funny is people take one or two plays out of a entire game and ignore all the others.

 

You mean like posting a highlight reel as if it was the same as film study to “prove” a narrative?

 

I think it’s funny when people that make very definitive statements and then ignore any rebuttal that shows them to be false. 

 

Your assertion isn’t really all that true, while there are extremists on both side of the JB fence, there’s been a lot of informed and considered debate about his positives and negatives at this point in time.