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Chad Forbes: Colts working on extensions for 4 players (AC, Kelly, Moore, Rigo)

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3 minutes ago, Superman said:

My thinking is this is speculation that Sheard will be allowed to walk after 2019. If they're trying to extend players who expire a year from now, but not Sheard, then that's reasonable speculation. 

 

My question is more about why extend Moore and Sanchez right now, when we have two more years of control? Extend them at the end of the season, or next February, not right now. It's a year early. 

 

AC makes sense. If you're expecting big money for Kelly, he makes sense right now also, so you can spread out the cap hits a little. 

I agree with AC and Kelly.  The only thing I can come up with on Moore and Sanchez is that he must really, really, really like them as long term Colts and figures it would be cheaper to do it now than a year from now.  That's the only reason I can come up with. 

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think the reasoning is rewarding players. Plus extending a guy like Moore is going to cost less to do it now then in two years. Plus it looks like they are trying to maneuver the cap a little bit by getting some guys done early and maybe front loading so when guys like Leonard and Nelson come up there won’t be any worries. Instead of trying to do everyone at the same time.

 

I'm all about rewarding players, but that doesn't mean we should be in a rush to do so. Kenny Moore had one good season, let's see if he follows it up. Sanchez is a punter, his money won't be a major consideration at any point. 

 

I'm concerned with the precedent of extending guys when they're still under contract for two more seasons. Especially after just one good season. 

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16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm all about rewarding players, but that doesn't mean we should be in a rush to do so. Kenny Moore had one good season, let's see if he follows it up. Sanchez is a punter, his money won't be a major consideration at any point. 

 

I'm concerned with the precedent of extending guys when they're still under contract for two more seasons. Especially after just one good season. 

Well the precedent could show guys you work hard you are rewarded. Sanchez is one of the best punters in the league. He is making like the minimum.

 

I think this is probably more  to do with getting creative with the salary cap. Trying to get some done now before some of the real big boys come up. Especially if you front load them.

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2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I agree with AC and Kelly.  The only thing I can come up with on Moore and Sanchez is that he must really, really, really like them as long term Colts and figures it would be cheaper to do it now than a year from now.  That's the only reason I can come up with. 

 

Signing early gives Ballard a chance to have them cheaper by multiple ways. One way is what you said, e.g., he can say I give you the money NOW (instead of next year), IF you take 1 mill less per year. And he can save cap space by distributing the money in to more years.  Let's say (numbers are hypothetical) Moore would get 40 million for 4 years next year. If Ballard gives him this same money NOW (as an extension), then some of that money can be booked into Moore's 2019 year, making his 2020-2022 cap hits less.

 

However, I agree with Superman. You only do this if you are absolutely certain that the guy is not a one year wonder, but someone who will contribute for the Colts in the long term. Thus, I have no problem with extending with for example Rigo. He's been here for 2 years, he's been good and punter is quite a safe bet. The chances that he will be the Colts punter in the next 3-5 years is pretty good.

 

I have no problem extending with Castonzo neither. A long term, proven Colt, not injury prone (never missed a snap except last year for 4-5 weeks). He has good genes, being at 30 he still has some good years in his tank. If he's willing to trade a few millions for his job security, let it happen.

 

But Moore and Kelly are different stories. Moore hasn't proven himself yet, and Kelly had his injuries. I want to see them play another full year before I would pull the trigger on either of them for the long term.

 

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3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Well the precedent could show guys you work hard you are rewarded. Sanchez is one of the best punters in the league. He is making like the minimum.

 

I think this is probably more  to do with getting creative with the salary cap. Trying to get some done now before some of the real big boys come up. Especially if you front load them.

 

Desir, Glowinski, Hunt, and others who were re-signed this year set that precedent already. The Colts are now known as a team that will pay their own players, they'll keep the door open for you even if you want to test free agency, etc. I think that's established very clearly at this point. (Meanwhile, someone like Melvin who walked even though the Colts had a competitive offer on the table probably cost himself money, and is now on his third team in three seasons.)

 

As for being creative with the cap, I get the idea. But as a counterpoint, if you pay guys before they've really established themselves, any money you're saving by signing them early might be might be a loss if you're re-signing a guy who doesn't live up to his new deal. 

 

There are principles of cap and roster management. One of them is pay your own, but they get paid after they earn it. And when you have contract control, you don't surrender that control just to be nice. 

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35 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Desir, Glowinski, Hunt, and others who were re-signed this year set that precedent already. The Colts are now known as a team that will pay their own players, they'll keep the door open for you even if you want to test free agency, etc. I think that's established very clearly at this point. (Meanwhile, someone like Melvin who walked even though the Colts had a competitive offer on the table probably cost himself money, and is now on his third team in three seasons.)

 

As for being creative with the cap, I get the idea. But as a counterpoint, if you pay guys before they've really established themselves, any money you're saving by signing them early might be might be a loss if you're re-signing a guy who doesn't live up to his new deal. 

 

There are principles of cap and roster management. One of them is pay your own, but they get paid after they earn it. And when you have contract control, you don't surrender that control just to be nice. 

Good post. 

 

Sup, if you don't mind, give me your opinion on the two new outside FA deals in terms of value, bang for the buck, and term.

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I trust Ballard and Reich that Moore is the real deal if they extend him.

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This is good news.  Maybe a bit early for some players, but they all look like part of the core.

 

Not surprised about the speculation about Sheard.  I think he's certainly a good player, but the DL is getting crowded.  Roster spots are getting thinner than cap space.  

 

One way to say it.  He was the starting RDE on the 29th ranked pass rush D and he makes $8M per year.  So its no surprise if he's vulnerable. 

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11 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Good post. 

 

Sup, if you don't mind, give me your opinion on the two new outside FA deals in terms of value, bang for the buck, and term.

 

I don't like the value on the Funchess deal. It's possible that other teams made offers that support what we gave him, but I don't think his production and performance support that contract. And if he does perform well for us, only doing a one year deal kind of leaves us between a rock and a hard place. I would have preferred a two year deal; if we think he's worth $10-13m for one year, why not secure a second year of control?

 

I like the Houston deal. Based on his production, the yearly average is easy to support. Based on his age, the two year deal is perfect. And his contract will be up right around the time we know whether Lewis and Turay are going to be worthy of second contracts. 

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't like the value on the Funchess deal. It's possible that other teams made offers that support what we gave him, but I don't think his production and performance support that contract. And if he does perform well for us, only doing a one year deal kind of leaves us between a rock and a hard place. I would have preferred a two year deal; if we think he's worth $10-13m for one year, why not secure a second year of control?

 

I like the Houston deal. Based on his production, the yearly average is easy to support. Based on his age, the two year deal is perfect. And his contract will be up right around the time we know whether Lewis and Turay are going to be worthy of second contracts. 

Thanks Sup. Same thing I thought, but I would have never considered a 2 year for DF. Probably never a 1. 

 

I absolutely love the Houston deal. When the Houston discussion started, never thought we'd get such great terms.

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I bet funchess wanted a one year deal. He is betting on himself he will be a ton better with the colts therefore a multi year deal in 2020 will be better then if he took one this year. I don’t care we overpaid a little on a one year deal.

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Any notion that Sheard is a potential cut is utter rubbish that does not dignify a response. I already wasted enough darn time just typing this and find it rude to do so.

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42 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Thanks Sup. Same thing I thought, but I would have never considered a 2 year for DF. Probably never a 1. 

 

I absolutely love the Houston deal. When the Houston discussion started, never thought we'd get such great terms.

 

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of Funchess, either. I was setting aside my opinion of the player, and focusing on the contract. Also giving the staff the benefit of the doubt that they have a specific plan for Funchess that will help him produce. He's also still young and has upside.

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29 minutes ago, rock8591 said:

Any notion that Sheard is a potential cut is utter rubbish that does not dignify a response. I already wasted enough darn time just typing this and find it rude to do so.

THat tweet was kind of just speculation because his name wasn’t mentioned for getting a extension.

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of Funchess, either. I was setting aside my opinion of the player, and focusing on the contract. Also giving the staff the benefit of the doubt that they have a specific plan for Funchess that will help him produce. He's also still young and has upside.

I love the skill set and potential he brings. I just don't see him as a 2, and hate the value/$. 

I'd like to see him more in the slot type roll mismatching LBs. He'll have some circus catches I'm sure. 

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12 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

I love the skill set and potential he brings. I just don't see him as a 2, and hate the value/$. 

I'd like to see him more in the slot type roll mismatching LBs. He'll have some circus catches I'm sure. 

I think we will see him in the slot a lot. 

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Just now, Chloe6124 said:

I think we will see him in the slot a lot. 

 

i do too. i don't see him getting enough separation or cushion on the perimeter nor do i see him as a guy that's going to stretch the field. i do think he could absolutely beast out vs LBs and DEs. 

heard or read somewhere he's been working out hard and focusing on speed. if he could improve that and improve separation, could be a very nice year all around for him. hope he proves me wrong and earns that cabbage. 

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7 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

 

i do too. i don't see him getting enough separation or cushion on the perimeter nor do i see him as a guy that's going to stretch the field. i do think he could absolutely beast out vs LBs and DEs. 

heard or read somewhere he's been working out hard and focusing on speed. if he could improve that and improve separation, could be a very nice year all around for him. hope he proves me wrong and earns that cabbage. 

What is going to be scary is both funchess and Ebron on the field at the same time. How does a team cover both of them.

 

Look for TY in the slot more also to take advantage of his speed more.

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28 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

What is going to be scary is both funchess and Ebron on the field at the same time. How does a team cover both of them.

 

Look for TY in the slot more also to take advantage of his speed more.

the last thing i want to see is TY in the slot (at least the next couple years). we can't afford an injury, and slot is more prone. he's also the only legit vertical guy we have. when he loses a vertical step, he'd do great in the slot IMO. 

 

Rogers took another nice step forward last year, and is our best option there along with DF. 

 

Doyle will be healthy hopefully as well. So you'll see a lot of TY/EE/CR/DF sets I'd guess to start off the year. Not great for the vertical game, but it's likely what we'll see. I hope Cain gets healthy and by mid year we have TY/CRorDF/JDorEE/DC. Or if we draft speed, rotate the new guy with DC opposite TY. That would be a nice group. TY/EE/DF/JDorNH/DCorDraft would be awesome in the RZ. I think we'll also see Hines more in the passing game this year too.

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TY knows when to get down. Not worried about injuries. He already plays about 20% in the slot. I think we will see Funchess a lot on the outside too. What is great is we have so many options. Hopefully Cain is I’ll look nice. We have so many options we should be able to confuse a lot of teams.

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21 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Very pleased about the news of working on extensions for the core four.   Very pleased.

 

Very concerned if there is any truth to this rumor about releasing Sheard.  I won’t believe it until there’s something more concrete.    The guy has graded in or near the 90’s in his two seasons with us.   There aren’t many players in the NFL who grade out that way.   Ballard himself has noted that Sheard is a locker room leader.  Cutting a guy like that sends the exact wrong message at this important point in the rebuild. 

 

This is a very smart front office.   I’ll believe it when it happens and not a minute sooner.

I wouldn't worry about Sheard, I can't see him being released unless he gets outplayed in camp.  There's a multitude of reasons why players get extended or released, you'll go crazy trying to sort out the unknown.  I was gutted when we cut Simon last year! I'm thrilled we're forward thinking and extending keys guys to stay cap healthy.  These great drafts will lead to challenges in future years so if these guys are to mature together and win for years together we need to map that out now, which I'm sure we are.  

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

TY knows when to get down. Not worried about injuries. He already plays about 20% in the slot. I think we will see Funchess a lot on the outside too. What is great is we have so many options. Hopefully Cain is I’ll look nice. We have so many options we should be able to confuse a lot of teams.

16%. sometimes getting down isn't an option lol. id prefer not to gamble. can't afford to have our only legit T1 guy go down. Outside of Luck, he's the only person on the team that could completely wreck our season if they got hurt.

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On 3/23/2019 at 12:48 AM, CR91 said:

 

My point is theres no point extending him now when we basically have him for two more years (RFA basically means we'll get him back unless he gets an insane offer which I doubt). I dont know just seems weird. Ill wait til something more concrete is reported. 

Thinking out loud here, but could we be trying to front load very heavily those guys NOW while we have all this extra cap to avoid bidding wars later should they want to test the market. Plus, we don’t really know what the 2020 CBA and Cap will be so if we can put a LOT of guaranteed money up front on those guys such as Kelly and AC,  puts us in a much much better spot than down the road. Just a thought. 

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13 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Desir, Glowinski, Hunt, and others who were re-signed this year set that precedent already. The Colts are now known as a team that will pay their own players, they'll keep the door open for you even if you want to test free agency, etc. I think that's established very clearly at this point. (Meanwhile, someone like Melvin who walked even though the Colts had a competitive offer on the table probably cost himself money, and is now on his third team in three seasons.)

 

As for being creative with the cap, I get the idea. But as a counterpoint, if you pay guys before they've really established themselves, any money you're saving by signing them early might be might be a loss if you're re-signing a guy who doesn't live up to his new deal. 

 

There are principles of cap and roster management. One of them is pay your own, but they get paid after they earn it. And when you have contract control, you don't surrender that control just to be nice. 

It could be argued that all 4 of them have earned it... especially Kelly and Moore. 

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On 3/23/2019 at 1:32 AM, CR91 said:

 

Im pretty sure once hes extended, the option is gone

the option price for kelly is about 10 million.  we dont save any money due to him being a center, its like the franchise tag and is for oline in general 

 

they can add team options to nfl contracts too.  they mostly do it for older veterans 

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On 3/23/2019 at 5:08 AM, Colts1324 said:

If Kelley performs at an All-Pro Level next year, he will likely set the market for centers, $14-$15 million a year IMO. If we could get him extended for $10-$11 mill per year now why wouldn't we??

Especially if we could start the extension after next season. 

Not with his significant injury history. He only played a full season his rookie year.

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