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Chad Forbes: Colts working on extensions for 4 players (AC, Kelly, Moore, Rigo)

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6 minutes ago, stitches said:

I mean... it's reasonable to expect him to be working on an extension for AC for example, we've all been talking about it around here for the last week or so. It's not some extraordinary claim. The problem is when it's presented as a sourced info(which I doubt Forbes has), rather than as what we all do here - speculations and conjectures. 


Yeah, probably best that this just gets merged into the FA beyond thread if not taken out altogether.

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40 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Yes they discuss an extension after not before they excerise the fifth year

you're right... and there could be factors at play with Kelly that i don't know or understand... im not any type of contract expert...

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58 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

Colts D-Line for 2019: 

 

DE: 

Houston/FA/Turay/Lewis/Muhammad/ Sheard

 

DT: Autry/Hunt/Ward/draft pick

 

I fully expect us to draft a DT in the upcoming draft. That leaves us with 10 defensive lineman next year given we sign another edge rusher in FA. IF we draft a DE as well in the draft that leaves us with 11 players on the D-Line. 

 

You also have to take into account that Sheard likely wants to start, and he very well could have limited snaps next offseason. If he stays, that's great. More depth. We'll see. 

i'd wouldn't be shocked either way on Sheard. He is solid, but not near elite. He did lead the DLs in snap count, tackles, and QB hits (tied) in 2018. Some of that is misleading though. Turay had as many QB hits, and in less than half the snaps. It will be interesting to see the numbers Houston put up. If he does stay, I'd be shocked if his snap count didn't decrease by at least 25%. More if we pick a guy like Ray or Lynch.

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6 hours ago, Colts1324 said:

If Kelley performs at an All-Pro Level next year, he will likely set the market for centers, $14-$15 million a year IMO. If we could get him extended for $10-$11 mill per year now why wouldn't we??

Especially if we could start the extension after next season. 

 

Because he could remain injury prone, and not be worth the money. It's a double edged sword signing guys that early. 

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    Sheard held the edge pretty well and was pretty solid against the run, in general.

     Can you remember the last time the Colts being this deep (potentially) on the Dline?

      If the contract extensions portion of the report are accurate, I’m glad to see it. He’s locking up two more pieces of a great Oline. 

      Moore and Rigo are difference makers and the timing for these extensions are probably happening due to reasons unknown to the public. 

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6 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

i'd wouldn't be shocked either way on Sheard. He is solid, but not near elite. He did lead the DLs in snap count, tackles, and QB hits (tied) in 2018. Some of that is misleading though. Turay had as many QB hits, and in less than half the snaps. It will be interesting to see the numbers Houston put up. If he does stay, I'd be shocked if his snap count didn't decrease by at least 25%. More if we pick a guy like Ray or Lynch.

Pretty sure it is important to have 'solid' players on the roster. Most teams are very lucky to have more than a few elite players. He is definitely worth keeping.

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7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

He’s going to be looking at $10 mill per soon.   Then you also have to pay AC and Q and Smith.  

 

Someday soon we’re going to be spending big $$$$ on the OL.   If this is true, Ballard is trying to keep costs under control.   Paying sooner rather than later is a way to do it. 

Could this be the reason why he wasnt trying to lock up big free agent deals for Bell, Brown, etc as so many were wanting him to do?O.o

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As I explained in the Future Cap Thread.

 

It makes sense to give new deals to all players coming up in next 2-3(Luck 3yrs)years, now, with front loaded contracts, while we have all this extra money. That way when Q and Leonard are up, the guys have smaller annual salaries and we can afford more money to give Q and Leonard.

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37 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Pretty sure it is important to have 'solid' players on the roster. Most teams are very lucky to have more than a few elite players. He is definitely worth keeping.

agreed. hard worker, seems like a good locker room guy.

and you never know how his performance might improve with houston on the other side, and a new drafted DT upgrade. he may look much improved.

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Smart move.  Our punter is one of the best in the league and Moore is one of our best playmakers.  AC and Kelly are also very important to keep the oline continuity for Luck.

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I don’t they they will release Sheard. He might not get resigned after contract is up.

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His report clearly stated we are working on those four extensions.  Nothing ambiguous there.  And those four make sense.  The fact that Rigo and Moore were included in the report and not just AC and Kelly makes me think he knows something.  That's just my take.  What great moves by Ballard to get those done now if he can do it.  

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It’s especially smart for a guy like Kenny moore. He was close to a pro bowl season last year. If he made the pro bowl this coming season is price will go up. 

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Sheard’s future looking uncertain doesn’t mean he will be cut. It very well could mean they just won’t re sign him after next season. 

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7 hours ago, Carlos Danger said:

I don't know how much his fifth year option is worth, but it is probably pretty pricey when you consider his position... maybe it is still cheaper than he's worth, but it isn't the same as having an option on a QB, who, if he plays well could save you 15 mil or more on an option for that fifth season.

1

 

I think original round tender is around 2.25 million, which gives us the right to match any offer or receive his original draft round (1st) in return.  That would be much cheaper than an extension that we do early.

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This isn’t the first rumor I have seen saying Moore was gounf to get a extension.

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1 minute ago, Bluesmith said:

 

I think original round tender is around 2.25 million, which gives us the right to match any offer or receive his original draft round (1st) in return.  That would be much cheaper than an extension that we do early.

I think I read his fifth year option would be around 9.25m.

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8 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Im pretty sure once hes extended, the option is gone

 

Yes, because why would it even need to exist at that point?

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9 hours ago, CR91 said:

I saw this, but I dont know how true it is. AC and Moore make sense, but why work on an extension with kelly when we have a fifth year option and Sanchez for two more years

You also have to consider that’s Sanchez is a top 5 punter in the nfl and making close to league minimum so you kind of need to reward him for the work he’s doing by giving him a respectable paycheck.

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9 hours ago, CR91 said:

I saw this, but I dont know how true it is. AC and Moore make sense, but why work on an extension with kelly when we have a fifth year option and Sanchez for two more years

 

Interesting that you don't have any ideas on why sign Kelly now. There are a few.
 How about locking him in for multiple years now?
 Maybe do it with a big fat roster bonus that he can enjoy when his next bank statement shows up MILLION$. We have the CASH! 
 Give him Guaranteed $$ NOW might get us some home town discount.

  And who knows if it is true?
  But Ballard knows all about our $$$, his timeline, the talent, and where he thinks we are headed.

  IMO he was a shell of himself against KC. His body is looking old to me. lol  

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1 hour ago, HectorRoberts said:

You also have to consider that’s Sanchez is a top 5 punter in the nfl and making close to league minimum so you kind of need to reward him for the work he’s doing by giving him a respectable paycheck.

 

And thats fine, but hes gonna be a RFA so we have time

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52 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

Interesting that you don't have any ideas on why sign Kelly now. There are a few.
 How about locking him in for multiple years now?
 Maybe do it with a big fat roster bonus that he can enjoy when his next bank statement shows up MILLION$. We have the CASH! 
 Give him Guaranteed $$ NOW might get us some home town discount.

  And who knows if it is true?
  But Ballard knows all about our $$$, his timeline, the talent, and where he thinks we are headed.

  IMO he was a shell of himself against KC. His body is looking old to me. lol  

 

Um I dont think that factors in this decision. The fifth year option is still on the table so we can talk extension next year.

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Kelly is one of the few guys that I would extend early. Ballard and Reich are on record saying he is the #1 center in the league. That's a bit of sunshine pumping, but he is top 5. 

 

he's making 2.6/yr and will likely command 10-11/yr.

 

if they are going to take the 5th (pun intended), they have to notify him May 3rd. Rookies that are preforming well, absolutely hate 5th year contracts, especially those taken in the first, outside the top 10. 

 

i'd give him a 4 year contract that effectively pay him his 2.6 (value scheduled for 2019) + 3 years at 10 to 11 . But, spread the 32.6ish out over 4 years for an 8.1 average. That way everyone is happy and it's more kind to future caps than what an 11 or 12 per year contract would be during or after his 5th.

 

Here's the blurb on 5th year protocol. 

Quote

 

Every player selected in the first round of the NFL Draft will automatically have a Fifth-Year Option added in his contract. This option cannot be separately attached to the player contract.

 

The option allows a team to retain a player’s rights for five years rather than the standard four, which is the bonus of selecting a player in the first round. In order to extend the contract, the team must inform the player during the period between the last regular season game of his third contract year and May 3 of the next League Year (Art. 7, Sec. 7, (a), 31).

 

The Fifth-Year Option is non-negotiable, and the non-compensation terms from a player’s rookie contract will be transferred to the fifth year.

 

Many terms allowed in other contracts are prohibited from being added into the Fifth-Year Option. These terms include Option Bonuses, Option Exercise Fees, option Non-Exercise fees, Option Buyouts, or any other compensation that stems from the team exercising or declining the Fifth-year option (Sec. 7 (d), 31).

 

When a team exercises the option, it becomes guaranteed for injury only. If the player is on the team’s roster at the start of the League Year in his option season, his salary becomes fully guaranteed for skill, cap and injury.

 

The payments are not considered Rookie Salary and do not count toward league or club rookie pools or allocations. The player’s option-year salary is also not subject to the 25% Rule.

 

The salary of the option year is also the only payment a player is eligible to receive for football services outside of minimum offseason workout per diems and compensation for non-football related team activities.

 

The salary for the Fifth-Year Option is also different for two types of players: those selected in the top-ten picks and all other first-round selections.

 

The option for top-ten picks is set at an amount equal to the salary of the Transition Tender (set in Article 10, Section 4 of the CBA) for the player’s fourth contract year. This salary is calculated, to put it simply, by finding the average of the top ten highest Prior Year Salaries for players at the same position. Positions are defined by where a player spent the most plays during the previous season (Sec. 7, (a), 31), unless you ask Jimmy Graham.

 

For players selected between 11th and 32nd in the draft, the same calculation is used to compute their salaries. The difference lies in what is averaged; rather than the top ten, the 3rd-25th highest Prior Year Salaries for the player’s position will be used.

 

If a team decides to use its option, the player can face substantial fines for refusing to report to camp on time and/or at all. Players can be fined up to $30,000 per day of training camp missed and a fine equal to one week’s regular season (1/17 of P5 Salary) check for any preseason games missed.

 

The Fifth-Year Option is intended provide teams with more security when it invests a valuable first-round pick on a player.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Um I dont think that factors in this decision. The fifth year option is still on the table so we can talk extension next year.

you have to make a decision on 5th year, and notify the player, between the last game of the 3rd season, and May 3rd prior to the 4th season.

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30 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

you have to make a decision on 5th year, and notify the player, between the last game of the 3rd season, and May 3rd prior to the 4th season.

 

Good to know

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10 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

You mean Kelly? Centers dont make ridiculous contracts

 

What's you definition of ridiculous? The top 13 centers for 2018 made between 7.5 to 11.1 million average per year.  Certainly Kelly is going to be high on the list soon.

 

10 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

I get that, but that is still years dont the road. I rather take advantage of the fifth year option. Centers dont break the bank

 

His 5th year option will probably be cost nearly 6.5 million. (Avg. of the #3 through #25 center salaries) when it's time.  Why not forget trying to pinch a couple million and show loyalty/support and reward a player that was on a lowball rookie pay for his good solid work they put in?  This show the other young guys that putting in great effort and producing will get you yours on a timely basis as well. 

 

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11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Since we play 8 DL and want 10 on the roster, then NO, he can’t easily be replaced.   We can easily afford his salary and since we want our DL to come in waves (Ballard’s words) then we NEED Sheard.   

 

Cutting a player who has not underperformed is the wrong message to send to the team.

 

And I have to wonder where this info would come from?   The Cokts don’t leak.   So who would reveal this?   I don’t see what an agent would have to gain?   If Sheard gets cut, it will take no time to get a good offer.   This doesn’t add up for me at all.  

They aren't  cutting  sheard, but they might not resign him depending  on how our young players develop 

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17 minutes ago, Stephen said:

They aren't  cutting  sheard, but they might not resign him depending  on how our young players develop 

 

Not re-signing Sheard in a year is another story.    We see what kind of year he has in 19?    We can decide early next winter whether to bring him back.

 

But I agree with you...   we should not be cutting Sheard.   Just no reason to.

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10 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

i'd wouldn't be shocked either way on Sheard. He is solid, but not near elite. He did lead the DLs in snap count, tackles, and QB hits (tied) in 2018. Some of that is misleading though. Turay had as many QB hits, and in less than half the snaps. It will be interesting to see the numbers Houston put up. If he does stay, I'd be shocked if his snap count didn't decrease by at least 25%. More if we pick a guy like Ray or Lynch.

 

Huh? Who's he going to lose his snaps to? There isn't a better strong side DE on the roster, and Ray nor Lynch would change that if they were brought in either. I HIGHLY doubt Sheard loses snaps, let alone being cut. 

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1 minute ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Huh? Who's he going to lose his snaps to? There isn't a better strong side DE on the roster, and Ray nor Lynch would change that if they were brought in either. I HIGHLY doubt Sheard loses snaps, let alone being cut. 

If they don’t re sign him I am sure they are thinking it’s time for a young guy to step up. Eventually a young guy will have to be the IT guy.

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3 hours ago, Mr.NotSoCreative said:

Could this be the reason why he wasnt trying to lock up big free agent deals for Bell, Brown, etc as so many were wanting him to do?O.o

It’s possible.     But I think with those two,  character plus cost is the reason.

 

Also, positional value.  I don’t think Ballard values RB nearly as much as posters here.....   and somewhat the same with wide receivers.   I think Ballard is a value shopper there....

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52 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

His 5th year option will probably be cost nearly 6.5 million. (Avg. of the #3 through #25 center salaries) when it's time.  Why not forget trying to pinch a couple million and show loyalty/support and reward a player that was on a lowball rookie pay for his good solid work they put in?  This show the other young guys that putting in great effort and producing will get you yours on a timely basis as well. 

 

 

If our wages were based on loyalty, id be a millionaire

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3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

If they don’t re sign him I am sure they are thinking it’s time for a young guy to step up. Eventually a young guy will have to be the IT guy.

 

Who? There isn't a guy on the roster ready to do that. I'm a big advocate for Lewis eventually taking over, but why rush the process when you have a guy (Sheard) that allows those younger guys to continue to develop. Next year (2020), I fully expect Lewis and Turay to be full on contributors to the defense, but with guys like Sheard and Houston, you give them time to fully develop into NFL DE's. 

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15 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Who? There isn't a guy on the roster ready to do that. I'm a big advocate for Lewis eventually taking over, but why rush the process when you have a guy (Sheard) that allows those younger guys to continue to develop. Next year (2020), I fully expect Lewis and Turay to be full on contributors to the defense, but with guys like Sheard and Houston, you give them time to fully develop into NFL DE's. 

Who is to say after next season they won’t be ready. We just don’t know.

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30 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Huh? Who's he going to lose his snaps to? There isn't a better strong side DE on the roster, and Ray nor Lynch would change that if they were brought in either. I HIGHLY doubt Sheard loses snaps, let alone being cut. 

name your wager (that his snap count % decreases) lol.

 

I think there are a ton of things in play. How it will all shake out is anyone's guess. All I know is, with new guys coming in, existing guys improving, and our schedule this year, his snap count is likely to decrease. 

 

1. He'll be 30 before the season start. 

2. He has the highest snap count of the front four

3. We could add another DE in the draft that could impact his #s

4. If we would add a guy like Lynch or Ray, they would play behind Houston, moving Turay behind Sheard (he's been there before). 

5. With Houston, and potentially others, we'll have a lot more quality rotation, and likely to see a lot more looks / personnel packages. More tools in the tool box means increased flexibility. 

6. AQM is 23, and is expected to improve (even with his crazy path to the Colts)

7. Keep in mind Hunt has lined up at DE, and Autry has lined up all over the place.

8. If we add an early round DT or UT, depending on who, could mean more moving parts. 

9. Lewis will end up somewhere. 

10. We face the 7th toughest schedule in 2019, and play a slew of gun slingers. We will absolutely see Sheard rotated out more for pass rushing packages.

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1 hour ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Huh? Who's he going to lose his snaps to? There isn't a better strong side DE on the roster, and Ray nor Lynch would change that if they were brought in either. I HIGHLY doubt Sheard loses snaps, let alone being cut. 

 

 Just for the fun of jumping in, i could see Lewis beating Sheard out for the job.

It may take half a season or so. Just throwing that out there.
 Or Sheard could get traded. Sheard is all you think he is but we may be knee deep in guys that can play that side post draft and FA.

  CB wants to be deep so i expect us to be loyal to Sheard. lol

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My thinking is this is speculation that Sheard will be allowed to walk after 2019. If they're trying to extend players who expire a year from now, but not Sheard, then that's reasonable speculation. 

 

My question is more about why extend Moore and Sanchez right now, when we have two more years of control? Extend them at the end of the season, or next February, not right now. It's a year early. 

 

AC makes sense. If you're expecting big money for Kelly, he makes sense right now also, so you can spread out the cap hits a little. 

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2 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

What's you definition of ridiculous? The top 13 centers for 2018 made between 7.5 to 11.1 million average per year.  Certainly Kelly is going to be high on the list soon.

 

 

His 5th year option will probably be cost nearly 6.5 million. (Avg. of the #3 through #25 center salaries) when it's time.  Why not forget trying to pinch a couple million and show loyalty/support and reward a player that was on a lowball rookie pay for his good solid work they put in?  This show the other young guys that putting in great effort and producing will get you yours on a timely basis as well. 

 

 

His option is based on salaries for all OL, not just centers. So it will be more like $10-11m. 

 

And that's partly why it makes sense to extend him early, if they're ready to commit to him. The option would make him a top three paid center. You can match that in new money, but spread the cap hits over an extra year.

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2 minutes ago, Superman said:

My thinking is this is speculation that Sheard will be allowed to walk after 2019. If they're trying to extend players who expire a year from now, but not Sheard, then that's reasonable speculation. 

 

My question is more about why extend Moore and Sanchez right now, when we have two more years of control? Extend them at the end of the season, or next February, not right now. It's a year early. 

 

AC makes sense. If you're expecting big money for Kelly, he makes sense right now also, so you can spread out the cap hits a little. 

I think the reasoning is rewarding players. Plus extending a guy like Moore is going to cost less to do it now then in two years. Plus it looks like they are trying to maneuver the cap a little bit by getting some guys done early and maybe front loading so when guys like Leonard and Nelson come up there won’t be any worries. Instead of trying to do everyone at the same time.

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