Former Steelers seeing the light re. the Pats...

[Reality Check]

In the past week, we have heard Hines Ward use the Patriots as the model for his dysfunctional Steeler's organization to come out of the cesspool they have created for themselves.

 

We have also heard how BB called Bill Cowher in an effort to help the Steelers win a SB after NE was knocked out of the playoffs.

 

James Harrison laid it all out for the haters on NFL Network last night...he went to NE thinking he was going to "uncover the truth".  By his own admission, he was stunned that he "had never witnessed a more cohesive, hard working group of men in his life".   Terrance Knighton said the exact same thing following getting cut from Pats training camp a few years back... after he had labeled them as "cheaters" during his years in Denver.

 

This list continues to grow....

 

Those who can only repeat the "patriot's cheat" mantra to help themselves feel better about their own team's failures are beginning to look more and more foolish with each NFL personality that comes out of the woodwork.

 

On top of it, I am still waiting to hear a single, disgruntled, former employee of the Patriots come out and collect millions of dollars for writing a book about the "systematic/organizational cheating of the Patriots".  Why hasn't this happened yet?  Instead, just a steady flow of R-E-S-P-E-C-T for the greatest run of success in NFL history.

 

As Bob Kraft so elegantly pointed out in Atlanta this week when asked about all the "Haters" out there..."I am honored.  We have a very high class problem to deal with". 

 

Well said Mr. Kraft!

 

Is there anyone around here who is shifting their views in light of all the revelations coming out lately?....or you gonna hate 'til you die?

[Superman]

What's the point of this thread?

[NextGenerationLuck]

Views not changed, once a cheater, always a cheater. There's no excuse for it. 

[Reality Check]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

What's the point of this thread?

General NFL discussion about former NFL players/coaches rebutting the idea that the Patriots cheat.

 

Many have posted MANY opinions to the contrary in this particular forum (NFL General) regarding the Patriots.

 

I can only presume there is interest in a fair, 2-way discussion about the topic.

 

While it may be seen as "inflammatory", all of the examples cited are REAL OPINIONS by REAL NFL people....as opposed to the wreckless accusations and innuendos which are usually brough to this forum regarding the Patriots.

 

I hope not to be banned, but if it is so, I will accept the punishment, respectfully.

[Reality Check]

Let's face it, this topic has probably occupied more threads in "NFL General" than any other single topic over recent years....

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

I hope not to be banned, but if it is so, I will accept the punishment, respectfully.

 

It seems like you're trolling. You've come to a Colts forum to boast about the Patriots and poke at Colts fans. 

 

Edit: And that includes the posts in other threads today. 

[Reality Check]

Just now, Superman said:

 

It seems like you're trolling. You've come to a Colts forum to boast about the Patriots and poke at Colts fans. 

Respectfully accepted....but I view it as a response to the overwhelming number of posts (by Colts fans) discrediting another NFL team without citing facts. 

 

If the NFL GENERAL forum is a place which only accepts "subjective banter" by the Colt's fanbase, then so be it.

 

I apologize for the post, but not my views (supported by facts/quotes).

 

[Reality Check]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It seems like you're trolling. You've come to a Colts forum to boast about the Patriots and poke at Colts fans. 

Other than the Kraft quote, I am not boasting.....more of a "response to ongoing, mostly unsubstantiated negativity" about one team.

 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Reality Check said:

Respectfully accepted....but I view it as a response to the overwhelming number of posts (by Colts fans) discrediting another NFL team without citing facts. 

 

If the NFL GENERAL forum is a place which only accepts "subjective banter" by the Colt's fanbase, then so be it.

 

I apologize for the post, but not my views (supported by facts/quotes).

 

 

Are you surprised that this site has an anti-Patriots leaning? NFL General is still a part of the Colts forum, mostly populated by Colts fans. 

 

All discussion is welcome but it seems like you have a specific agenda, which partly includes annoying the fans you know you'll find here.

[aaron11]

lots of guys have said they didnt enjoy playing for the patriots 

[buccolts]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

lots of guys have said they didnt enjoy playing for the patriots 

 

That's not the same thing, though.

[Finball]

Players don't need to know about the cheating coaches do. Or other players don't need to know about QB deflating footballs.. I certainly wouldn't talk about it.

 

Not saying the Pats are definitely cheating though it wouldn't surprise me at all if they are.

[aaron11]

12 minutes ago, buccolts said:

 

That's not the same thing, though.

i know but who cares?  this thread is no different than one of us going to a patriots forum and bringing up deflate gate and calling them a bunch of cheaters 

 

brady didnt follow the rules and was punished.  that is a fact.  they may not have proved he cheated but they certainly didnt prove he was innocent either.  the league doesnt go by innocent until proven guilty 

[Reality Check]

I am not surprised at the anti-Patriots bias....but are opposing opinions & countering their opinions with facts a problem/not allowed?

 

Again, I tried to present my case using quotes/fact vs my personal opinions.

 

If it is not welcome, just let me know.

 

Respectfully submitted.

[Reality Check]

21 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

lots of guys have said they didnt enjoy playing for the patriots 

...but this is not the point.  How many of them have ever given one indication that they witnessed anything but unparalleled devotion to hard work and out-preparing their opponent when explaining the Patriot's success? 

[Reality Check]

14 minutes ago, Finball said:

Players don't need to know about the cheating coaches do. Or other players don't need to know about QB deflating footballs.. I certainly wouldn't talk about it.

 

Not saying the Pats are definitely cheating though it wouldn't surprise me at all if they are.

I am confused about this statement?  How can "cheating" be implemented on the field without the players having any idea?

 

Again, you should listen to James Harrisons discussing HIS experience on a NE team which went to a SB and how he witnessed something much different than he expected when arriving in NE.

[Finball]

1 minute ago, Reality Check said:

I am confused about this statement?  How can "cheating" be implemented on the field without the players having any idea?

 

Again, you should listen to James Harrisons discussing HIS experience on a NE team which went to a SB and how he witnessed something much different than he expected when arriving in NE.

 

Like in spygate. Players don't need to know how coaches got the info to make that specific playcall.

[Flash7]

1. Spy Gate did happen - no doubt about it.

 

2. Deflategate did happen - no doubt about it.

 

3. The NFL changed the rules on how a DB can make contact with a receiver after the Pats DBs molested Colts receivers for an entire game. That did happen - no doubt about it.

"When the NFL rule-makers cracked down four years ago on clutching-and-grabbing tactics by defensive players to try to open up the passing game, the move widely was viewed as a response to the rugged way in which the New England Patriots had played defense on their way to their first two Super Bowl titles." - Washington Post

 

4. The NFL did change the rules on intentional substitution confusion.

"The Ravens were * the Patriots got them on a couple big plays using substitution confusion. The competition committee decided to ensure the Ravens wouldn’t get fooled again and made it illegal for a receiver/running back to declare ineligible and line up outside the tackle box."

 

There's n doubt that the Patiots ARE cheaters. Your assertion seems to imply that players from other teams would walk into the Patriots facilities and see rampant cheating left and right. In all reality, the players from other teams would join the Patriots and see a hard working group of players, which I do not doubt that they are. They would not see deflated game footballs, or know that the coaches were implementing tactics that were bending the rule book.

[Reality Check]

7 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

Like in spygate. Players don't need to know how coaches got the info to make that specific playcall.

I would beg to differ.  Supposedly, Spygate was such a big deal because it highlighted "systematic & organizational cheating".  If coaches are the only ones who are aware of the other teams formations/play calls, do you really think that all of that info can be communicated to players (on the field) given the few seconds they have between the time a team lines up and the time the ball is snapped?

I would also come fact to the idea of why no former, disgruntled coaches have ever seized the opportunity to make millions of dollars by spilling the beans?

 

Did you hear Kurt Warner this week when he was asked about SB36/Pats cheating, etc...?  His reply was simple...

"All I can say is that on that day, the Patriots outplayed us on the field".

 

London Fletcher said the same thing this week as well......

[buccolts]

Too many thoughts, and too little time to offer an appropriate response during working hours, but........ James Harrison? Really?

[Reality Check]

8 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

1. Spy Gate did happen - no doubt about it.

 

2. Deflategate did happen - no doubt about it.

 

3. The NFL changed the rules on how a DB can make contact with a receiver after the Pats DBs molested Colts receivers for an entire game. That did happen - no doubt about it.

"When the NFL rule-makers cracked down four years ago on clutching-and-grabbing tactics by defensive players to try to open up the passing game, the move widely was viewed as a response to the rugged way in which the New England Patriots had played defense on their way to their first two Super Bowl titles." - Washington Post

 

4. The NFL did change the rules on intentional substitution confusion.

"The Ravens were * the Patriots got them on a couple big plays using substitution confusion. The competition committee decided to ensure the Ravens wouldn’t get fooled again and made it illegal for a receiver/running back to declare ineligible and line up outside the tackle box."

 

There's n doubt that the Patiots ARE cheaters. Your assertion seems to imply that players from other teams would walk into the Patriots facilities and see rampant cheating left and right. In all reality, the players from other teams would join the Patriots and see a hard working group of players, which I do not doubt that they are. They would not see deflated game footballs, or know that the coaches were implementing tactics that were bending the rule book.

Rule changes do not mean the Pats were cheating.  The NFL left rules out there with loopholes....and the Patriots used them to their advantage while other team's coaches were not intelligent enough to catch on.  Isn't it funny that Harbaugh had such a problem with the TE substitutions in the 2014 divisional game....but the following season he did the EXACT same thing to beat a regular season opponent.  How come no one cared?

These rule changes only highlight that BB is playing the game at a completely different level than his peers.  His peers, also, will take any advantage they can find/get... but the fact none of them dominates a "league based on parity" renders their efforts irrelevant to 99.9% of NFL fans.

 

Let me ask you this....

 

It was obvious that green lasers were pointed in Brady/Pats players faces during the AFC Title Game IN KC.  What would the national outcry had this same thing happened to an opposing QB in Gillette Stadium for an AFCCG?

[Reality Check]

13 minutes ago, buccolts said:

Too many thoughts, and too little time to offer an appropriate response during working hours, but........ James Harrison? Really?

He was one of the biggest "patriots cheat" guys in the NFL and, self-admittedly, went to NE with the idea that he was going to witness their "evil ways".  Instead, he had this to say about them after being a part of their team/organization.....

 

“The only thing that’s really opposite is that in New England, it’s more regimented, it’s more disciplined,” said Harrison. “The coaching is better, to be honest with you. The plans they put together are better. And they don’t ask their players to do anything that’s outside of the realm of what they feel their capabilities are. So when you do that, and you switch a lot of players in and out for certain things that you want to get accomplished, you get things done and that’s what they have over there.

“I wanted to hate [Tom Brady] so bad, playing against him all those years and him getting the better of us for the most part of them, I wanted to hate him … I feel like [the Steelers system] needs to be more disciplined…”

That’s a huge endorsement for New England’s coaching staff, and it further explains why the team has been so successful under Bill Belichick. Especially consider that Harrison was a tough critic too because he entered the situation viewing the Patriots as a rival, as they had been for him his entire career. That makes his remarks carry even more weight.

 

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/james-harrison-patriots-coaching-better-than-steelers/455524

 

I think this is the video of him talking about it last night.....not sure how one could discredit what he says he witnessed???...

 

https://video.twimg.com/tweet_video/DySR0MFUcAAazWJ.mp4

[Reality Check]

37 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

 

 

There's n doubt that the Patiots ARE cheaters. Your assertion seems to imply that players from other teams would walk into the Patriots facilities and see rampant cheating left and right. In all reality, the players from other teams would join the Patriots and see a hard working group of players, which I do not doubt that they are. They would not see deflated game footballs, or know that the coaches were implementing tactics that were bending the rule book.

 

Again, why have none of the former coaches who were let go/fired by NE capitalize on the millions of dollars for the first person to document their experiences in a book.  I'm thinking of a guy like Dave DeGuglielmo

 

[Finball]

39 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

I would beg to differ.  Supposedly, Spygate was such a big deal because it highlighted "systematic & organizational cheating".  If coaches are the only ones who are aware of the other teams formations/play calls, do you really think that all of that info can be communicated to players (on the field) given the few seconds they have between the time a team lines up and the time the ball is snapped?

 

 

 

Yes. It's not like the players should be looking at the coaches signals anyway.

 

 

[Gramz]

Someday the truth will come out.  It always does!

And then we'll all have a reality check.

 

[Colts_Fan12]

Jeez mods please close this blatant troll thread this dude isnt even trying to cover it up either its embarrassing 

[dodsworth]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

What's the point of this thread?

Just another Pats fan tooting their horn in our face, and people

still wonder why my t.v. will not be tuned on the SB this Sunday.

Anything said or seen by me about those jack wagons make me want to

vomit.

[Flash7]

21 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

 

Let's say I was a coach and was fired/let go by the Patriots and I decide to write a book detailing all of their cheating ways.

 

1. I have indicted myself of cheating and will not longer work in the NFL.

2. I make millions of dollars by selling my book, only to see it disappear in defending myself in court against a Billionaire, (Kraft) who will undoubtedly take me to court to defend himself and his franchise.

3. snitches and ditches...and all that.

[Gramz]

Not to discuss politics or religion, but just to make a point here...... that just because someone says I'm innocent, or I didn't do it, does not make it true.  And just because someone didn't actually see something, doesn't mean it never happened.

 

Nixon swore he was not involved in Watergate.

Clinton swore he didn't have sexual relations.

Pete Rose said he never bet on baseball...

 

The list goes on.

In the end the truth eventually comes out.

 

I can wait on the Patriots truth..  I know it's coming someday 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Reality Check said:

I am not surprised at the anti-Patriots bias....but are opposing opinions & countering their opinions with facts a problem/not allowed?

 

Again, I tried to present my case using quotes/fact vs my personal opinions.

 

If it is not welcome, just let me know.

 

Respectfully submitted.

 

You came to troll, and there's nothing respectful about it. 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

You came to troll, and there's nothing respectful about it. 

Blatantly at that atleast the others put a lil effort in trying to hide it

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You came to troll, and there's nothing respectful about it. 

 

Just close this thread, please.

 

The sooner Pats fans come to embrace the reality that more SB wins or appearances will not change how opposing fans will view the Patriots, the easier it will be on them and the others they "think" they can convince. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, Gramz said:

Someday the truth will come out.  It always does!

And then we'll all have a reality check.

 

I agree. The only reason why Deflategate gets mocked by the media is, we lost 45-7. Had it been 45-42, it would not be mocked. Cheating is cheating no matter if one loses 100-0. It will be hilarious when one of the ball boys slips up and admits what really happened. It will happen eventually IMO.

[Narcosys]

2 hours ago, Reality Check said:

Let's face it, this topic has probably occupied more threads in "NFL General" than any other single topic over recent years....

Its called buying their loyalty. 

[TheMarine]

Pats are garbage uncoth cheaters lucky enough to have the best HC in football.

 

[21isSuperman]

This thread isn't going towards anywhere productive and isn't creating a discussion. Closing