Talent vs Scheme Fit

[Hark]

Really glad to see the Colts re-sign Glowinski, but it makes me wonder. How can a guy that can’t make the active roster or gets waived by one team (or sometimes several, think Chris Hogan), end up being such a solid player on another team? Mark Glowinski’s talent didn’t change overnight from being a practice squad guy to a $6 mil per year solid starting guard. Is it scheme fit, talent, coaching, some combination of the three?

[throwing BBZ]

You may find this interesting.
 

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/analysis-as-mark-glowinski-signs-big-deal-with-colts-examining-how-he-got-away-from-the-seahawks/

[Hark]

3 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

You may find this interesting.
 

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/analysis-as-mark-glowinski-signs-big-deal-with-colts-examining-how-he-got-away-from-the-seahawks/

 

Good read. Thanks for sharing. Just a great job by CB and his staff of identifying this kid.

[rockywoj]

It pays to have a really good Pro Scouting department, to identify these diamonds in the rough that other teams are trying to juggle. 

[richard pallo]

14 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

You may find this interesting.
 

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/analysis-as-mark-glowinski-signs-big-deal-with-colts-examining-how-he-got-away-from-the-seahawks/

Great read.  Amazing how the NFL works. We only see the headlines but what goes into some of these acquisitions is mind boggling.   Made me stop and think about Denzelle Good and the circumstances on how he left.  I hope he can make it down the road too. 

[rock8591]

It's always the scheme fit and coaching.

 

If you were to take the average bench press, squat, and deadlift of top 10 OLs vs worst 10 OLs, I doubt you'll see ANY difference. The physical talent between each team in the league is little to none.

[Coffeedrinker]

13 hours ago, Hark said:

Really glad to see the Colts re-sign Glowinski, but it makes me wonder. How can a guy that can’t make the active roster or gets waived by one team (or sometimes several, think Chris Hogan), end up being such a solid player on another team? Mark Glowinski’s talent didn’t change overnight from being a practice squad guy to a $6 mil per year solid starting guard. Is it scheme fit, talent, coaching, some combination of the three?

Scheme fit and coaching have a lot to do with it.  But Glow was never a practice squad guy, he was a 4th round draft pick that played in 10 games as a rookie, was a 16 game starter in 2016 and lost his starting job in 2017.

 

It could be that Seattle wanted something different or more from the guard position and they did not think Glow could provide it.  It doesn't mean that Seattle made a mistake releasing, just like Blythe playing well for the Rams doesn't mean the Colts made a mistake in releasing him, it just means he didn't fit the vision the team had.

 

It could also be that Tom Cable is just a poor oline coach and cannot tell good lineman from bad lineman.

[throwing BBZ]

13 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Great read.  Amazing how the NFL works. We only see the headlines but what goes into some of these acquisitions is mind boggling.   Made me stop and think about Denzelle Good and the circumstances on how he left.  I hope he can make it down the road too. 

 

We got Desir after Seattle waived him, and Moore after NE waived him.
And Glow. Who will it be this off season? 
 Kinda goose bumpy when you think how much those moves meant to 2018.
 

[Smonroe]

Andrew Norwell was undrafted.  Sometimes guys need time to develop, coaching, or just a chance.  

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Scheme fit and coaching yes BUT don't forget culture.

[tikyle]

I think all of that stuff is a factor but let's not overlook the mental and physical state of the athlete as well.  Glowinski may not have been ready to be a starter in 2016.  He may have grown physically and mentally from then til now and that could account from him going from a marginal starter to a top 20 G in  the league.

 

I think all of this stuff factors in and there's no simple formula or algorithm for it.  Some guys develop faster than others and some guys just need the right situation and opportunity and some guys just have it all when they're drafted and never look back.

 

For every Odell Beckham there's a Antonio Brown.  For every Jerry Rice there's a Terrell Owens.  For every Andrew Luck there's a Drew Brees.  For every Peyton Manning there's a Tom Brady.

[Farns01]

The article also said they were going to have two bump up his salary to about 2 mil and waivered him to resign him to the practice squad on the cheap.  The Colts were willing to accept his current salary.

[shasta519]

6 hours ago, Smonroe said:

Andrew Norwell was undrafted.  Sometimes guys need time to develop, coaching, or just a chance.  

 

That's a good point. Obviously, you have outliers like measureables (Tyron Smith)...or NFL readiness (Q)...but the gap between OL players sometimes comes to down other things than talent.

[shasta519]

I think it depends on the position groups. I think scheme fit can be huge for some positions...but talent is incredibly important at so many positions. 

[Smonroe]

34 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

I think it depends on the position groups. I think scheme fit can be huge for some positions...but talent is incredibly important at so many positions. 

 

Not doubting you, but I always said the talent difference between about 80% of the players at any position is minuscule.  For those guys, it’s coaching and scheme.  

 

It’s kind of reflected in salary disperses, maybe not exactly but most teams salaries have top heavy guys eating up big chunks. While about 80% of the rest earn the same as the top 20%.  

[shasta519]

8 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Not doubting you, but I always said the talent difference between about 80% of the players at any position is minuscule.  For those guys, it’s coaching and scheme.  

 

It’s kind of reflected in salary disperses, maybe not exactly but most teams salaries have top heavy guys eating up big chunks. While about 80% of the rest earn the same as the top 20%.  

 

I think the difference in physical traits can definitely be minuscule for the most part...but talent typcially wins out. It's why a guy like TJ Green, despite all the coaching in the world, is not a good NFL player.

 

And talent can also overcome physical traits. 

 

But then again, talent is pretty hard to quantify...and coaching does ultimately play such a huge role for a lot of guys. 

 

I guess if I had to say one or the other...I would cop out and say it's a balance.