With Alex Smith out for 2019.....

[aaron11]

10 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Brisett was gonna to PS. 

he would have never cleared waivers and made it to the PS squad.  he probably would have been picked up by the first team or two in the waiver priority

 

i cant imagine Cleveland passing on him if they could have had him for no draft picks and minimal salary  

[throwing BBZ]

33 minutes ago, MPStack said:

 

I think a lot folk have creatively painted this picture of Brissett being better than what he is.

 

Just, because he came in knowing a limited amount of the playbook and got sacked a bunch, doesn’t mean he’s a starter and worth a lot in a trade. 

 

You think Brissett is the only QB, who could’ve done that? No, there’s plenty. 

 

Brissett’s numbers are below Bridgewater’s, who was obtained for a 3rd. 

 

I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t see the value others see in Brissett.

 

 I would have to research Bridgewater's coaching staff and supporting cast to see the comparison. I guess you did that and also feel comfortable judging how well he might be able to execute our potential trade partners offense.

 I hope my opinion can be based on just what i saw of him on the field.
He showed me quite a bit. I think he can be a solid starter. Better than Trent Dilfer.
If the Colts can put him in position to be a starter in 2019, i hope they do.
 Miami and Washington are interesting possibilities.

[throwing BBZ]

15 hours ago, Kangaroo said:

Everyone wants to trade Jacoby away, yet all teams need a good quality backup.  If we trade Jacoby, we need to get a good QB as a backup--as OP said, this QB class is average, so where do you propose to get the replacement?

 

 Please name the Rams and Patriots backup. Maybe Flacco would come here?

[Defjamz26]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

And I think Colts fans overrate him so they can talk themselves into believing he has a high trade value. 

Thank you. I was just about to ask, at what point did Jacoby become the quote “best backup QB” in the league? I’m not sure where all this talk of him being a high level starter is coming from. He’s won a combined 5 games in the league. Aside from leadership, he doesn’t have any standout traits. No team with a QB need is dying to get Brissett more than Nick Foles, Tyrod Taylor, Joe Flacco, Bridgewater, Drew Lock, Dwayne Haskins, etc...

[Superman]

9 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Im not overrating him. Im just trying to get something better then a 4th round comp pick

 

By ignoring the indications that his value isn't any higher than that.

[Superman]

53 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Please name the Rams and Patriots backup. Maybe Flacco would come here?

 

Sean Mannion and Brian Hoyer. Off the top of my head.

 

And there's a backup QB who won SB MVP just last season...

 

Backups can be important. Just like insurance. You hope you never need it, but you're glad you have it when you do. I don't think the Colts need to worry about the Nick Foles scenario, it's so unlikely, but having a backup who can go 2-1 or 3-2 if necessary can save your season if your QB has to miss a few weeks with an injury. 

 

So whether it's Brissett or someone else, I would like to have a capable backup.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, MPStack said:

 

I think a lot folk have creatively painted this picture of Brissett being better than what he is.

 

Just, because he came in knowing a limited amount of the playbook and got sacked a bunch, doesn’t mean he’s a starter and worth a lot in a trade. 

 

You think Brissett is the only QB, who could’ve done that? No, there’s plenty. 

 

Brissett’s numbers are below Bridgewater’s, who was obtained for a 3rd. 

 

I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t see the value others see in Brissett.

I am not the only one.  Today Bleacher Report came out with an article saying Brissett should be the "Hottest" QB available in the NFL.  It's a long and great article for all the Brissett naysayers.  He reasons the pros and cons with all the competition and Brissett comes out on top.  After reading it it's hard not to believe the Colts won't get an offer that will blow them away.  

[throwing BBZ]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Sean Mannion and Brian Hoyer. Off the top of my head.

 

And there's a backup QB who won SB MVP just last season...

 

Backups can be important. Just like insurance. You hope you never need it, but you're glad you have it when you do. I don't think the Colts need to worry about the Nick Foles scenario, it's so unlikely, but having a backup who can go 2-1 or 3-2 if necessary can save your season if your QB has to miss a few weeks with an injury. 

 

So whether it's Brissett or someone else, I would like to have a capable backup.

 

OK. That question was not intended for you or NCF. 
We certainly will have a capable backup so Irsay & CB can sleep.  
 I sure would be aggressive going for a stud DT in this draft. And JB would be available to help us get there. He is Available.

[throwing BBZ]

21 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Thank you. I was just about to ask, at what point did Jacoby become the quote “best backup QB” in the league? I’m not sure where all this talk of him being a high level starter is coming from. He’s won a combined 5 games in the league. Aside from leadership, he doesn’t have any standout traits. No team with a QB need is dying to get Brissett more than Nick Foles, Tyrod Taylor, Joe Flacco, Bridgewater, Drew Lock, Dwayne Haskins, etc...

 So you see people saying they think/expect he will be a "High Level" starter? Hmm!
 Don't think so. I think you grossly exaggerate.

Sorry, but i expect the market for Taylor, Flacco, and Bridgewater to be less than for Brissett. They are known to be not that good. Brissett has upside and will be cheap.
 Washington may like Lock. Haskins to the Giants before they want Brissett. Why of course. Only a nutt would suggest otherwise.
 When Miami dumps Tannehill to dump their season will they want Flacco, Taylor?
 I just can't see that. Maybe Bridgewater. Maybe Brissett to see what he has.

[richard pallo]

7 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 So you see people saying they think/expect he will be a "High Level" starter? Hmm!
 Don't think so. I think you grossly exaggerate.

Sorry, but i expect the market for Taylor, Flacco, and Bridgewater to be less than for Brissett. They are known to be not that good. Brissett has upside and will be cheap.
 Washington may like Lock. Haskins to the Giants before they want Brissett. Why of course. Only a nutt would suggest otherwise.
 When Miami dumps Tannehill to dump their season will they want Flacco, Taylor?
 I just can't see that. Maybe Bridgewater. Maybe Brissett to see what he has.

I think Miami will dump Tannehill to get cap space as well.  Brissett to Miami looks pretty good.

[Coffeedrinker]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would keep Brissett. He is arguably the best backup QB in the league unless people consider Foles a backup  . Foles could start for several teams in the league (he really isn't a true backup IMO), not sure Brissett could. Brissett is still on a cheap contract and a security blanket just in case Luck does get injured and has to miss a game or 2. 

Foles, at least for the past several years, is a true back-up.  Whether he could start for several teams in irrelevant, he has been playing for teams that have a starting QB and then if something happened to the starter, Foles would come into the game.  That is kind of the definition of a back-up QB.

 

That being said, I would keep Brissett as well and maybe even re-sign him in 2020.  Unlike many on this forum, I don't think JB is really a starting level QB but I think he is a solid QB who won't hurt the Colts if he has to play a few games.  Even with MH on the roster, I don't think the Colts have had a solid back-up QB since Sorgi.

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think Miami will dump Tannehill to get cap space as well.  Brissett to Miami looks pretty good.

 

Who needs Dwayne Haskins when you can trade a 3rd rounder for Jacoby Brissett?

[Coffeedrinker]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Who needs Dwayne Haskins when you can trade a 3rd rounder for Jacoby Brissett?

I don't know if this was said sarcastically or not; but as much as it pains me to say this, I think Haskins is going to be a very good NFL QB.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I don't know if this was said sarcastically or not; but as much as it pains me to say this, I think Haskins is going to be a very good NFL QB.

 

Dripping with sarcasm...

[richard pallo]

15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Who needs Dwayne Haskins when you can trade a 3rd rounder for Jacoby Brissett?

You mean a 2nd. rounder.

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

You mean a 2nd. rounder.

 

You're arguing my point.

 

Why give up a 2nd rounder for Jacoby Brissett when you're picking #13 in the draft and can take a highly rated QB prospect?

[MPStack]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

I am not the only one.  Today Bleacher Report came out with an article saying Brissett should be the "Hottest" QB available in the NFL.  It's a long and great article for all the Brissett naysayers.  He reasons the pros and cons with all the competition and Brissett comes out on top.  After reading it it's hard not to believe the Colts won't get an offer that will blow them away.  

 

You lost me at B/R. They are terrible.

 

 

[Superman]

29 minutes ago, MPStack said:

 

You lost me at B/R. They are terrible.

 

B/R has good writers, and bad ones.

 

It's a well-thought-out piece that makes some good points. I still think it overvalues and overrates Brissett.

[hoosierhawk]

I have been a big proponent of JB. Some are using his won-loss record as an indication of his talent. He happened to play on a terrible team with one of the worst OL in football without prior knowledge of the play book and very subpar coaching and I think he played respectable. Personally I hope CB wouldn't trade him to Washington as there ownership a train wreck. I think trading down with Denver would be a better situation and what people are forgetting is that you aren't just trading straight up the 15th pick in the draft for JB but for JB and possible one of the best OL in the draft that a team like Denver could pick up at 26. It was said in this thread that Lock over JB is a no brainer. Is Lock over JB and another 1st rounder a no brainer? I personally don't think so. We could possible pick up a 4th rounder to boot.

Don't get it that some on here who I respect give JB no value at all. As I stated before, no one knows his value and we will find out soon.

 

[Defjamz26]

2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 So you see people saying they think/expect he will be a "High Level" starter? Hmm!
 Don't think so. I think you grossly exaggerate.

Sorry, but i expect the market for Taylor, Flacco, and Bridgewater to be less than for Brissett. They are known to be not that good. Brissett has upside and will be cheap.
 Washington may like Lock. Haskins to the Giants before they want Brissett. Why of course. Only a nutt would suggest otherwise.
 When Miami dumps Tannehill to dump their season will they want Flacco, Taylor?
 I just can't see that. Maybe Bridgewater. Maybe Brissett to see what he has.

That’s a homer mentality. Flacco is a former Super Bowl MVP. Bridgewater lead the Vikings to a winning record before his injury. Taylor helped the Bills get to the playoffs.

 

You’re purposefully downplaying the skills of the other QBs while over-hyping Brissett to create a narrative that isn’t somewhat true. “Upside” is a word that gets thrown around too loosely around here. What upside does he have besides being young?

 

 I’m not saying Jacoby is bad but let’s not act like he’s Nick Foles.

[Superman]

29 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Is Lock over JB and another 1st rounder a no brainer? I personally don't think so. We could possible pick up a 4th rounder to boot.

 

Break this down for me. I think I'm confused about your proposal.

 

Quote

Don't get it that some on here who I respect give JB no value at all.

 

I personally value JB, I really like him and I hope he gets a chance to start in the NFL. And when he does, I hope he does well.

 

But I definitely think he's overvalued by Colts fans. I don't think anyone is going to give up a high pick for him, and I don't think he's on the precipice of greatness. I've never used his w/l record against him, but I do think he has obvious limitations as a QB, and there's no evidence that he's improved on those aspects of his game so far. 

[csmopar]

20 hours ago, CR91 said:

Redskins need a QB. Flacco would be atleast 15+ a year and in his thirties. Also this is a weak QB class. There is potential to move up to 15 by trading Jacoby and our first. Thoughts?

hmm, I would be ok with that.  I don't really want to trade Jacoby and hope we resign him but also know he's better than at least 1/3 of the QBs currently starting so he'll be gone in a year. 

[csmopar]

33 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Break this down for me. I think I'm confused about your proposal.

 

 

I personally value JB, I really like him and I hope he gets a chance to start in the NFL. And when he does, I hope he does well.

 

But I definitely think he's overvalued by Colts fans. I don't think anyone is going to give up a high pick for him, and I don't think he's on the precipice of greatness. I've never used his w/l record against him, but I do think he has obvious limitations as a QB, and there's no evidence that he's improved on those aspects of his game so far. 

My thought process is this.  This guy came in week 2 last year, no training camp with the Colts, new staff, went right in and with the crap team we had and very few supporting cast, did quite well.  People forget the Colts had not only the worst OL in the league but that we blew 7 out of 9 4th quarter leads.  Which means Brissett had us in those games with a chance to win.  Despite getting hit 30% more than the next QB.

[hoosierhawk]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

Break this down for me. I think I'm confused about your proposal.

Maybe made it sound a little comfusing Super but what I was saying is if we were to trade down we would give up JB and # 26 in exchange for say a 15th. Someone stated that Lock vs a JB is a no brainer and it would be if all the other team was doing was trading say 15 straight up for JB. JB and a 26th for a #15 is an entirely  different story.

 

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

if we were to trade down we would give up JB and # 26 in exchange for say a 15th

 

You're saying trade up from #26 to #15, and that includes trading JB, right? That's what the OP suggested.

 

I posted earlier, according to the draft trade value chart -- which isn't irrefutable gospel, but a decent indication of how teams value draft picks in trades -- there's a 350 point difference between #15 and #26. That's a second round pick. So you'd have to believe Brissett is valued like a second round pick, and I don't think he is.

 

If Washington offered the Colts that deal -- #15 for JB + #26 -- the Colts should take that deal and get it approved by the league office right away. It's a steal. 

 

But why would Washington want to trade down 11 spots for JB, rather than drafting a QB at #15? It doesn't make sense, unless you think JB is as highly valued by NFL teams as the QBs in this year's draft class, and more highly valued than the expected free agent QBs.

[boo2202]

I can see both sides of everybody’s opinion. I’m in the middle, he’s got trade value but we’re not getting a 1st rounder for him. My thinking is a late 2nd or early 3rd. Always possible of a player swap as well. There’s so many teams that could take a chance on jacoby because he’s shown talent, young, and inexpensive. Dolphins, redskins, jags, giants, and broncos could be in the market. Either way some of these teams will be calling, just to see the cost. I’d be happy either way. If JB stays great but hope he doesn’t have to start a game for us. If we trade him and get a 2nd rounder great also. 

[boo2202]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You're saying trade up from #26 to #15, and that includes trading JB, right? That's what the OP suggested.

 

I posted earlier, according to the draft trade value chart -- which isn't irrefutable gospel, but a decent indication of how teams value draft picks in trades -- there's a 350 point difference between #15 and #26. That's a second round pick. So you'd have to believe Brissett is valued like a second round pick, and I don't think he is.

 

If Washington offered the Colts that deal -- #15 for JB + #26 -- the Colts should take that deal and get it approved by the league office right away. It's a steal. 

 

But why would Washington want to trade down 11 spots for JB, rather than drafting a QB at #15? It doesn't make sense, unless you think JB is as highly valued by NFL teams as the QBs in this year's draft class, and more highly valued than the expected free agent QBs.

What qbs will be left at 15? Lock and Haskins are going top 10. Maybe the qb from duke is worth top 15? Some team will be left on the outside looking in on draft day looking for qb’s

[Superman]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

My thought process is this.  This guy came in week 2 last year, no training camp with the Colts, new staff, went right in and with the crap team we had and very few supporting cast, did quite well.  People forget the Colts had not only the worst OL in the league but that we blew 7 out of 9 4th quarter leads.  Which means Brissett had us in those games with a chance to win.  Despite getting hit 30% more than the next QB.

 

We all know that JB had terrible circumstances in 2017. He deserves a lot of credit for performing under those circumstances as well as he did. I think that's one of the things that makes him so well-respected, such a good teammate, etc. I'm a JB fan, I want him to do well, and I want him to get a chance as a starter.

 

But evaluating his play in 2017, we can see that he has limitations. I'm talking about the traits that are specific to NFL QBing: decision-making, mobility, accuracy, footwork, touch, anticipation, progression-based passing, ball security, playmaking, clutch playmaking, etc., etc. Brissett was a third rounder because of question marks in all these areas, and we saw those same issues when he was starting for us.

 

For instance, we all know he got sacked like a thousand times, but all those sacks weren't because of poor protection. A lot of them were due to bad playcalling, about which I've said my piece already. But some of them were due to him being slow to react, lacking anticipation, not reading defenses and struggling with progressions. And he gets credit for being a "mobile QB," but I'm not sure where that comes from. He has some wiggle to him, and he's hard to bring down, but he's not fast or quick, and I wonder why people call him mobile. He's not Cam Newton. 

 

Since then, he hasn't had a chance to play. Maybe he'd benefit from a better coaching staff, better teammates, etc. That all seems reasonable. But that doesn't make him a franchise-level QB, or even a decent starter. There are significant questions about JB's ability to play at an acceptable starter's level in the NFL. We can't ignore those questions just because we really like how he battled through a difficult season in 2017.

[Superman]

24 minutes ago, boo2202 said:

What qbs will be left at 15? Lock and Haskins are going top 10. Maybe the qb from duke is worth top 15? Some team will be left on the outside looking in on draft day looking for qb’s

 

We don't know when the QBs will go, but I don't think four will go in the top ten like last year. 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, boo2202 said:

What qbs will be left at 15? Lock and Haskins are going top 10. Maybe the qb from duke is worth top 15? Some team will be left on the outside looking in on draft day looking for qb’s

No QB needy team wants to be on the outside looking in if they can help it this year. Lock and Haskins are supposedly the best of the class and that's not saying much.  They have a lot to prove or they would be consensus Round 1 pick 1 got to have QB's.  The others you pretty much have to talk yourself into picking them in the 1st. round.  JB is the smart choice if you're looking for a young starter who can win now.  He's already shown he can on a bad team.  And his cost is practically free for the first year before you have to pay him.  A proven NFL QB versus the chance at some Manziel types in the 1st.rd.  JB is well worth a 2nd. rd. pick.  The Bleacher Report article is right on the money.  Ballard is going to have more than one offer to bargain with.  Great situation for the Colts.