Manning, Money, And Who Gets The Ball?

[subvet]

Many people are posting that money is a big issue--I don't think it is.

Peyton Manning probably be cut Wednesday or Thursday to release the Colts from the previous contract, then the next round of waiting begins.

Does he wait a few days and re-sign with the Colts for a short term contract paying nothing close to what his last contract had, but loaded with incentives.....

Or does he entertain offers from other teams for a longer and apparently more desirable contract loaded with premium quarterback money but where play calling and control may be relinquished.

In my opinion he wants to stay in Indianapolis even if the money isn't what he could get elsewhere. He's a team player and he wants to prove he can earn it.

In my opinion he's playing for a sentimental old fashioned ethic, he's playing for pride.

But it is just my opinion.

[Tark The Shark]

I think Peyton will entertain the idea of coming back, but I think it is 50/50 that he comes back to Indy

[oldunclemark]

Many people are posting that money is a big issue--I don't think it is.

Peyton Manning probably be cut Wednesday or Thursday to release the Colts from the previous contract, then the next round of waiting begins.

Does he wait a few days and re-sign with the Colts for a short term contract paying nothing close to what his last contract had, but loaded with incentives.....

Or does he entertain offers from other teams for a longer and apparently more desirable contract loaded with premium quarterback money but where play calling and control may be relinquished.

In my opinion he wants to stay in Indianapolis even if the money isn't what he could get elsewhere. He's a team player and he wants to prove he can earn it.

In my opinion he's playing for a sentimental old fashioned ethic, he's playing for pride.

But it is just my opinion.

I agree that its a certainty he will be cut (that $28 mil is a heavy load) but that doesnt end the story..

Will he be cut and announce that he will resign at the same time?

When does the new NFL year begin....March 13?

Is that the real moment of truth???

And what do we do between March 8 and March 13???

[Coltsagent]

I lost track of the all of the different options...what happens again if Peyton just changes the $28M, to say $15M w/ same $7M base? (assuming already it is allowed). Or can 3/8 just be an option delayed day, or in other words pushed back to another date? I just cant see the release and resign.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I think length of contract and team surrounding him are going to be bigger factors than money. With Luck in Indy, those are two red flags to both of those parameters.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I lost track of the all of the different options...what happens again if Peyton just changes the $28M, to say $15M w/ same $7M base? (assuming already it is allowed). Or can 3/8 just be an option delayed day, or in other words pushed back to another date? I just cant see the release and resign.

In my personal opinion that simply can't be done.

But hypothetically if it were to change to 15 million with the same base salaries, and then you went back and adjusted the 2011 cap hit(sticking point on why I feel it can't be altered) here are the new cap #'s.

2012 $14,400,000.00
2013 $15,400,000.00
2014 $16,400,000.00
2015 $17,400,000.00

Not much improvement.

Still have cap issues if he's not on the roster for most if not all of the 4 remaining years.

[Coltsagent]

Thanks FJC, same numbers above, lets say he retires after 2, whats the cap in the last 2?

[Peyton and Eli fan]

If Irsay offers him a 4 year deal, I think he'll stay. But, if they offer him a 1 year deal with the intent of turning it over to Luck after a goodbye tour, I think he'll move on. I think he'll want at least 3 years somewhere so he can get established. I think another ring is probably more important than sentiment, so I think Irsay would also need to convince him that they can turn it around.

I just hope that if Irsay really wants to start clean with Luck, he's honest about it rather than offering something insulting just so he can say that Peyton turned him down. (The ladies in the crowd have probably all dealt with a guy who wanted to break up but did it by being a jerk until she broke up with them)

[Coltsagent]

FJC, why does it matter if the 2011 cap gets adjusted? If they were under it than why does it matter if they go under it even farther? Didn't the teams have to be under their caps like about a month ago?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Thanks FJC, same numbers above, lets say he retires after 2, whats the cap in the last 2?

Dead cap space in 2014

14 million in the hypothetical

19.2 in his actual deal if the OB is picked up at 28.

Dead space in 2015

0

0

[FireJimCaldwell]

FJC, why does it matter if the 2011 cap gets adjusted? If they were under it than why does it matter if they go under it even farther? Didn't the teams have to be under their caps like about a month ago?

It's in the books.. It can't be altered... The season is over...It's not like the IRS where you can amend your return.

The top 51 salaries have to be under 2012 cap by the 12th or 13th or 15th. Not 100% of the date.

[Coltsagent]

P&E Fan, from what I see Irsay is not in the position to offer anything, right now I see PM holding the cards.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

P&E Fan, from what I see Irsay is not in the position to offer anything, right now I see PM holding the cards.

Irsay has to make the final decision.

[Coltsagent]

Sounds like a good deal to me, drop the amount of the option, take the same base or less with bigger incentives, retire after 2 years no matter how it plays out, Luck would then be on the 3rd year of a 4 year deal and PM last cap hit would be over. Seems like a smooth transition.

Peyton looks like a hero and savior and Irsay gets a little more insurance.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Sounds like a good deal to me, drop the amount of the option, take the same base or less with bigger incentives, retire after 2 years no matter how it plays out, Luck would then be on the 3rd year of a 4 year deal and PM last cap hit would be over. Seems like a smooth transition.

Peyton looks like a hero and savior and Irsay gets a little more insurance.

But if Peyton feels he has more than 2 years left in him, he's not going to sign anything with a set "expiration date" like that just to be a hero.

[oldunclemark]

If Irsay offers him a 4 year deal, I think he'll stay. But, if they offer him a 1 year deal with the intent of turning it over to Luck after a goodbye tour, I think he'll move on. I think he'll want at least 3 years somewhere so he can get established. I think another ring is probably more important than sentiment, so I think Irsay would also need to convince him that they can turn it around.

I just hope that if Irsay really wants to start clean with Luck, he's honest about it rather than offering something insulting just so he can say that Peyton turned him down. (The ladies in the crowd have probably all dealt with a guy who wanted to break up but did it by being a jerk until she broke up with them)

Logic suggests (because he missed the entire 2011 season) its a one-year deal....maybe with an option year...

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Logic suggests (because he missed the entire 2011 season) its a one-year deal....maybe with an option year...

doubt he'll take that

[Peyton and Eli fan]

If I were Peyton, I'd be trying to make sure next off-season isn't a repeat of the drama of this offseason. If the Colts do struggle, everyone will be calling for Luck the following year and it's going to a bad ending anyway. With a one year deal, the only way it ends well is if the Colts win the superbowl and Peyton voluntarily decides not to play anymore - that would take a lightning strike.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Sounds like a good deal to me, drop the amount of the option, take the same base or less with bigger incentives, retire after 2 years no matter how it plays out, Luck would then be on the 3rd year of a 4 year deal and PM last cap hit would be over. Seems like a smooth transition.

Peyton looks like a hero and savior and Irsay gets a little more insurance.

Except for the fact that there is no guarantee that it could be done at all.

[Coltsagent]

Peyton has said it many times how many years he wants to play. I am just saying what he does right now takes A LOT of hard work. How much longer can you really maintain that HIGH of a level? When does the family become more important? That is a lot of time in the gym, the trainors room, the diets, the film room. Who wants to work an 80 hour week when you could be on Easy street? Do any of you rememeber how much you hated 2 a days? We just take it for granted that he WANTS to keep doing what he has always done. Why not just go into it knowing you just have to give that 110% for another X amount of time? Just give him the tools to do it. How about just climbing one more mountain peek?

[FireJimCaldwell]

doubt he'll take that

Me either.

If I were Peyton, I'd be trying to make sure next off-season isn't a repeat of the drama of this offseason. If the Colts do struggle, everyone will be calling for Luck the following year and it's going to a bad ending anyway. With a one year deal, the only way it ends well is if the Colts win the superbowl and Peyton voluntarily decides not to play anymore - that would take a lightning strike.

Exactly.

I think he will want two things.

1 ) Potential length to the contract

2 ) A solid team/situation

[UndecidedFrog]

Logic suggests (because he missed the entire 2011 season) its a one-year deal....maybe with an option year...

doubt he'll take that

And this is where the rubber hits the road, the point where dreams shatter, and people face reality.

[Vance]

So wait, like mark said...

The 28 mil is coming or not coming on March 8, but FA doesn't begin until March 13. So what happens in between? Can the Colts still talk to him during that time or no?

[21isSuperman]

I think he wants to be where he has the best chance of winning a championship. Personally, I think he should have Condon do his best to get him into San Fran if it doesn't work out here in Indy. Of course, as a fan, I want him to be in Indy. But what he wants is very different from what I want. It's difficult to say how we would do next year. Would we have a .500 record or less or do we have something like the Bengals where good defense helps us make the playoffs? Peyton wants to win; it's just hard to predict if Indy will be a winning team next year. With that said, he has covered up a lot of the teams' holes in the past, so what's to say he can't do that again and keep the team a contender? So many questions!!

[Malakai432]

But if Peyton feels he has more than 2 years left in him, he's not going to sign anything with a set "expiration date" like that just to be a hero.

I have to agree with you. I think he's going to want a 4-5 year deal and it seems like Irsay is set on rebuilding getting a new QB. Heck, even though RGiii said he would love to sit and learn behind Manning, he would probably be highly anxious to come in and play before 4-5 years.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

So wait, like mark said...

The 28 mil is coming or not coming on March 8, but FA doesn't begin until March 13. So what happens in between? Can the Colts still talk to him during that time or no?

My understanding is that if the Colts release him he immediately becomes available to talk to other teams. I don't have any reason to think that the Colts can't be one of those teams. FJC can correct me if I'm wrong.

[FireJimCaldwell]

So wait, like mark said...

The 28 mil is coming or not coming on March 8, but FA doesn't begin until March 13. So what happens in between? Can the Colts still talk to him during that time or no?

Once he's released he's free to talk to/work out for/sign with anyone and does not have to wait till 3/13 to do so.

[WeSpy]

Logic suggests (because he missed the entire 2011 season) its a one-year deal....maybe with an option year...

doubt he'll take that

And this is where the rubber hits the road, the point where dreams shatter, and people face reality.

I agree with you guys. I just thought it was humorous the way things were put... Still, Peyton will not play on a one year, incentive-laden deal. And it's not because he doesn't love the Colts, because he does---it'll be because it's simply not the smart thing to do for either side.

If he stays, he's staying put until he is convinced he can no longer play and retires.

If he leaves, it will be because he feels that he has years of game left and the Colts are not committed to riding with him all of those years.

Why get a one year deal today and let everyone see you play on a formerly 2-14, potentially rebuilding team when the interest level (and possibly pay level) in you is so high in the free agent market right now! He will either make 20+ million with the Colts and be their main man for the next 4 years---or he'll make his 20+ elsewhere for four years.

[CR91]

if peyton is released no way he will come play for us cheap because there will be plenty of teams that will pay peyton top dollar

[deedub75]

So wait, like mark said...

The 28 mil is coming or not coming on March 8, but FA doesn't begin until March 13. So what happens in between? Can the Colts still talk to him during that time or no?

He becomes a FA as soon as he is released on March 8. He doesn't have to wait until March 13. After March 8, he would be able to talk to any team.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I agree with you guys. I just thought it was humorous the way things were put... Still, Peyton will not play on a one year, incentive-laden deal. And it's not because he doesn't love the Colts, because he does---it'll be because it's simply not the smart thing to do for either side.

If he stays, he's staying put until he is convinced he can no longer play and retires.

If he leaves, it will be because he feels that he has years of game left and the Colts are not committed to riding with him all of those years.

Why get a one year deal today and let everyone see you play on a formerly 2-14, potentially rebuilding team when the interest level (and possibly pay level) in you is so high in the free agent market right now! He will either make 20+ million with the Colts and be their main man for the next 4 years---or he'll make his 20+ elsewhere for four years.

if peyton is released no way he will come play for us cheap because there will be plenty of teams that will pay peyton top dollar

I could see an incentive based deal elsewhere that has triggers in it that as he passes them adds guaranteed money to the deal, which would then be converted as a signing bonus, and prorated over the length of the contract.

His individual incentives will be deemed NLTBE(not likely to be earned), because they are based on the previous year statistics(for example 500k for 20 td passes, he threw 0 in 2011), that 500k if earned would go into the 2013 cap. If he went to SF as some suggested, and he had an incentive that said 500k for a trip to the playoffs, that would be a LTBE (Likely to be earned) and included in the 2012 cap because that team went to the playoffs the previous year.

I still feel that his incentive based deal if that is the route he goes will still pay him in the end like an elite QB if he hits the goals. I do not think that it's going to be the cheap discounted deal that a lot suggest. It will be risk free early on in my opinion.

[subvet]

Why get a one year deal today and let everyone see you play on a formerly 2-14...

I don't think it'll be a one year deal, more like 3 or a ring whichever comes first. And why he'd come back, for the previous 10 years they weren't a 2-14 team, he was the difference and he knows it.

[WeSpy]

I could see an incentive based deal elsewhere that has triggers in it that as he passes them adds guaranteed money to the deal, which would then be converted as a signing bonus, and prorated over the length of the contract.

His individual incentives will be deemed NLTBE, because they are based on the previous year statistics(for example 500k for 20 td passes, he threw 0 in 2011), that 500k if earned would go into the 2013 cap. If he went to SF as some suggested, and he had an incentive that said 500k for a trip to the playoffs, that would be included in the 2012 cap because that team went to the playoffs the previous year.

I still feel that his incentive based deal if that is the route goes will still pay him in the end like an elite QB if he hits the goals. I do not think that it's going to be the cheap discounted deal that a lot suggest. It will be risk free early on in my opinion.

I absolutely see incentives as well, and I agree with you. I did not mean to portray the thought that I believed that he would leave because of the incentives or that any team would simply hand him a check, no questions asked. I apologize for my lack of clarity. What I meant to say is that I think if he leaves it will be because the deal offered him here will be short-term, and Peyton wants commitment to him from the team he's playing for.

[deedub75]

Well the way his contract was written up was basically an insurance policy so that the Colts wouldn't cut him after 2 years into the contract. He's getting $60M of the $90M in the first 3 years of the contract. This is the same thing that is holding up Brees' contract. So I doubt if he would want a 2 year incentive laden contract.

[subvet]

I still feel that his incentive based deal if that is the route goes will still pay him in the end like an elite QB if he hits the goals. I do not think that it's going to be the cheap discounted deal that a lot suggest. It will be risk free early on in my opinion.

My thoughts exactly, thank you.

[WeSpy]

I don't think it'll be a one year deal, more like 3 or a ring whichever comes first. And why he'd come back, for the previous 10 years they weren't a 2-14 team, he was the difference and he knows it.

Even with Luck in the wings? I don't see Irsay passing on Luck even if Peyton can throw him 70 yards from one hash to the other. I wish it'd be like you said, though.

You are right on with this. He was a large portion of the reason why the Colts are perennial Super Bowl contenders, and don't forget the slew of injuries this year at key positions as well. I think we could draft high in the first two rounds multiple times this year by trading later round picks (who hardly ever come to fruition anyway) and keep the team we have and be a Super Bowl team. I just don't think that Irsay is thinking the thinking that I'm thinking and that thinking is what makes me think that Irsay will draft Luck and offer Manning a very short-term deal. Which Manning will not appreciate.

What do you think?

Not trying to shout by the way, just categorizing my responses accordingly.

[buccolts]

If I understand correctly, and I could very much be wrong, but any team could talk to Peyton as soon as he's released.

I believe it's because others can't be contacted until their contracts run out, at the end of this league year.

If you're cut from an existing contract, you're free to talk to all, asap.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

This isn't important enough to start a new thread but I don't know where else to post it, but Irsay has not tweeted at all today. That's actually quite unusual for him. wonder if something is about to go down.

[WeSpy]

This isn't important enough to start a new thread but I don't know where else to post it, but Irsay has not tweeted at all today. That's actually quite unusual for him. wonder if something is about to go down.

Maybe something already is down...the power...

Sorry, couldn't resist. And yes, I know it was lame.

[rockywoj]

If the Colts cut Manning, doesn't he have to clear waivers before he becomes a free agent ... Or is this bonus situation designed as a 1 Yr deal with an option for 4 more years, whereby if the option is not exercised (paid) the contract simply expires making Manning a free agent without having to be cut by the Colts?