Colts Are A Great Team

[CR91]

i am sick of this. the colts were not a great team with years because of just peyton. we had talent like wayne,edge,marv,dallas. there just as important to our years of success as peyton. peyton did not carry a bad team for 12 years. so we got caught with young players, injuries, and bad coaching for one year adn all of the sudden all of our success is because of one player. i dont think so. we are a great team for more reasons then just peyton.

[IndyTrav]

No, he carried a bad team for about 3 years.

He carried a bad defense for about 10.

[Wyld1]

You are correct, there were other players in the pre-injury PM days:

Marvin Harrison

Edgerrin James

Tarik Glenn

Adam Meadows

Ken Dilger

Marcus Pollard

To name a few that aren't with the team presently.....

[Wyld1]

No, he carried a bad team for about 3 years.

He carried a bad defense for about 10.

Exactly!

[CR91]

No, he carried a bad team for about 3 years.

He carried a bad defense for about 10.

i take nothing away from peyton and whats hes done for the colts, but hes not the only reason we have had success for so many years

[Wyld1]

i take nothing away from peyton and whats hes done for the colts, but hes not the only reason we have had success for so many years

The offense was always in the top 10, the defense wasn't so good. So yes, PM wasn't the only reason Indy was so good but the team rarely had an average NFL ranking. The offensive weapons were there for sure for most of his pre-injury days.

[icf]

No, he carried a bad team for about 3 years.

He carried a bad defense for about 10.

yep, that's pretty much sums it up

[ruksak]

i take nothing away from peyton and whats hes done for the colts, but hes not the only reason we have had success for so many years

All this gets shot down simply by realizing that if we didn't have Peyton, no way we win a SB with those teams. Would not have happened, no way whatsoever.

Those inept Colts defenses could literally sit back and relax in that soft cover-2 and enjoy making big plays off of the desperation of a a team that had been buried in a 20 point hole by Manning's brilliance.

As soon as Manning is out, the cover-2 was exposed and, from top to bottom, the defense was gutted and replaced in prep for the next year.

If the only difference over the years was a different QB, that cover-2, small player, umbrella defense would've been done away with 8 years ago.

[number28]

as a team, we were better in the Jim Harbaugh era. Less talent but more heart.

During Peyton era, the team looked to him to bail us out and knew that everything will be ok as long as he is in there.

The only non-Peyton player that showed the most heart was Bob Sanders, and yet he was flamed regularly on these very forums.

[colts_mp]

Overall our defense wasn't that bad. We had some really good years and some bad ones.

Year Defensive Rank (by points allowed)

2001 28

2002 8

2003 20

2004 19

2005 2

2006 23

2007 1

2008 7

2009 8

2010 23

[21isSuperman]

I wouldn't necessarily say he carried the team, the team was just built based on him. By him playing and putting up points, the offensive line focused more on pass protection than on run protection and their flaws were covered by Peyton's quick release. The defense was built to play against the pass. So Peyton put up points and the defense went out and did what they were built to do. He is more like a catalyst, allowing everyone else to do their job in the best way. The problem is when you build around one player and that player gets hurt, all your weaknesses are exposed. Your team was built to play a certain, specific way; they are now forced to do something they aren't built for

[ruksak]

I wouldn't necessarily say he carried the team, the team was just built based on him. By him playing and putting up points, the offensive line focused more on pass protection than on run protection and their flaws were covered by Peyton's quick release. The defense was built to play against the pass. So Peyton put up points and the defense went out and did what they were built to do. He is more like a catalyst, allowing everyone else to do their job in the best way. The problem is when you build around one player and that player gets hurt, all your weaknesses are exposed. Your team was built to play a certain, specific way; they are now forced to do something they aren't built for

I'm with ya. I hate to even speculate about what would've been without PM. Other than to say that things would've been quite different.

[rccoltsfan]

You are correct, there were other players in the pre-injury PM days:

Marvin Harrison

Edgerrin James

Tarik Glenn

Adam Meadows

Ken Dilger

Marcus Pollard

To name a few that aren't with the team presently.....

....and none of them were with the team when we went to our 2nd Superbowl, correct?

[Gavin]

while our receivers are good and and Freeny and Mathis are good, Garcon certainly has a case of fumblitus, and Injury Prone (Anthony Gonzales while showed talent on the rare ocassion he was on the field needs to be go its a business after all, he will recover and hes got his money, I like Mcafee dude has a awesome leg, and Vinatierie his record speaks for itself great kicker, the defense to quote Bart Scoot "Cant stop a nose bleed" and its NOT JUST BEEN THIS YEAR, its been even since the Harbaugh days, only the last 14 years Peyton has suffered cause of it, I used to say early on in Peytons career it was the first to 35-40 points. the colts offense or the colts defense whoever got their first wins, well seems like it would be the same if we retained him, same old thing, colts need to trade him to a superbowl contender with a defense, and build a beast of a defense, MAINLY Defensive Tackle POSITION and corner, colts have been a finesse team ITS FOOTBALL not ballet, they need physical corner physical linemen, yes peyton carried the team

[rccoltsfan]

What happened to our Colts this year is the result of a perfectly, complimentary T-E-A-M missing an important member. Take the keystone out of the arch and what happens?....it falls.

Peyton is our keystone and has been. The sum of all of the parts = greatness.

[Wyld1]

....and none of them were with the team when we went to our 2nd Superbowl, correct?

Correct and your point?

[supremecoltsfan300]

I wouldn't necessarily say he carried the team, the team was just built based on him. By him playing and putting up points, the offensive line focused more on pass protection than on run protection and their flaws were covered by Peyton's quick release. The defense was built to play against the pass. So Peyton put up points and the defense went out and did what they were built to do. He is more like a catalyst, allowing everyone else to do their job in the best way. The problem is when you build around one player and that player gets hurt, all your weaknesses are exposed. Your team was built to play a certain, specific way; they are now forced to do something they aren't built for

I dont really think our team was built around Peyton. The fact is our o-line has struggled recently because besides saturday they havnt been playing well at all. we won games because after we put up points our d would usually give up more points just not as many as we scored usually. Our o-line and defensive players/scheming was just bad. I dont think polian chose these bad players as a way of building around peyton. Polian just happened to pick bad players whose flaws were mostly covered up by peyton. We did have some players that were good but not many who were "great". Clark, I love him, but he was just a good te not a great one. Peyton made him look great like many others.

[Duolian]

Maybe Peyton's too good for his own good? Lots of respectable people talk about how he redefined the position. He covered SO many flaws, took pressure off so many players, coaches, and FO people for so long. Imagine the Colts are a state-of-the-art high-def 3D television. Peyton's the remote. Lose the remote and you can't even watch re-runs of Maude. Suddenly a less fancy TV doesn't look so bad.

[mmcrazylikeafox]

You are correct, there were other players in the pre-injury PM days:

Marvin Harrison

Edgerrin James

Tarik Glenn

Adam Meadows

Ken Dilger

Marcus Pollard

To name a few that aren't with the team presently.....

Brandon Stokely, Cato June, Vanderjet, Terence Wilkins...

[Wyld1]

Brandon Stokely, Cato June, Vanderjet, Terence Wilkins...

Thanks for adding to the list...I believe Demulling needed to be added?

[likm]

I wouldn't necessarily say he carried the team, the team was just built based on him. By him playing and putting up points, the offensive line focused more on pass protection than on run protection and their flaws were covered by Peyton's quick release. The defense was built to play against the pass. So Peyton put up points and the defense went out and did what they were built to do. He is more like a catalyst, allowing everyone else to do their job in the best way. The problem is when you build around one player and that player gets hurt, all your weaknesses are exposed. Your team was built to play a certain, specific way; they are now forced to do something they aren't built for

21 who is er team?

[mmcrazylikeafox]

Thanks for adding to the list...I believe Demulling needed to be added?

yes, even Ben Utecht, and Motae Reagor

[FireJimCaldwell]

Overall our defense wasn't that bad. We had some really good years and some bad ones.

Year Defensive Rank (by points allowed)

2001 28

2002 8

2003 20

2004 19

2005 2

2006 23

2007 1

2008 7

2009 8

2010 23

Rankings are overrated.... For example the 2005 defense was better than 2007, yet 2007 was ranked #1..

[21isSuperman]

21 who is er team?

I'm not understanding. What are you saying?

[number28]

By him playing and putting up points, the offensive line focused more on pass protection than on run protection

then how do you explain epic monster Edgerrin James rushing seasons? three 1500 yard seasons and a 1700 yard season.

It's either that we were a pretty darn good run blocking team as well or EJ is simply an epic RB and something that Addai or Donald Brown can never do.

I guess OL is not the only thing that makes RB's great. Maybe its great RB's that make RB's great.

[ruksak]

I guess OL is not the only thing that makes RB's great. Maybe its great RB's that make RB's great.

Great OL's can make mediocre RB's look great as well.

Here's my take; I think what made Edge so great was a combination of a solid RB (Edge) and a decent (albeit inconsistent) O-line combined with the most feared passing game in the NFL at the time. Rarely did any team dare to stack 7-8 men in the box against Peyton, that was suicide. Even on obvious rushing downs (3rd & short) teams would have to jump their safeties out of the box as Manning changed the play, they knew he wasn't afraid to hit #88 on a deep route on 3rd & 1. This provided Edge and his O-line escort an even man-for-man match-up that produced extraordinary gain.

[GoColts8818]

....and none of them were with the team when we went to our 2nd Superbowl, correct?

Heck most of them weren't with us when we went to our first super bowl!

[rccoltsfan]

Correct and your point?

My point is...while I agree that those players on your list were greatly talented...our mgmt. continually pulled solid players from the draft and developed them. It wasn't ALL about Peyton...it was about Peyton & how the rest of the team fit together.

[Wyld1]

My point is...while I agree that those players on your list were greatly talented...our mgmt. continually pulled solid players from the draft and developed them. It wasn't ALL about Peyton...it was about Peyton & how the rest of the team fit together.

You are correct!

[Blue Horseshoe]

Maybe Peyton's too good for his own good? Lots of respectable people talk about how he redefined the position. He covered SO many flaws, took pressure off so many players, coaches, and FO people for so long. Imagine the Colts are a state-of-the-art high-def 3D television. Peyton's the remote. Lose the remote and you can't even watch re-runs of Maude. Suddenly a less fancy TV doesn't look so bad.

Ummmmm... maybe it's just me but not showing reruns is of Maude is kind of a good thing.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

then how do you explain epic monster Edgerrin James rushing seasons? three 1500 yard seasons and a 1700 yard season.

It's either that we were a pretty darn good run blocking team as well or EJ is simply an epic RB and something that Addai or Donald Brown can never do.

I guess OL is not the only thing that makes RB's great. Maybe its great RB's that make RB's great.

The stretch play

[IndyTrav]

My point is...while I agree that those players on your list were greatly talented...our mgmt. continually pulled solid players from the draft and developed them. It wasn't ALL about Peyton...it was about Peyton & how the rest of the team fit together.

Until about 2004.

From 2004 forward, we have drafted 65 players.

By my count, Addai-Bethea-Pollak-Wheeler-Garcon-Tamme-Brown-Mola-Powers-Collie-Painter-McAfee-Hughes-Angerer-Thomas-Eldridge-Castonzo-Illijana-Nevis-Carter-Rucker......21 are still on the team.....

Of those 21.....1 of them is good (Bethea)......Several are Average (Collie,Garcon,Angerer)....3 are RBs....1 is a kicker.....the others, are backups and or to young to tell.....

[schwamm]

then how do you explain epic monster Edgerrin James rushing seasons?

If you'll recall, most thought Addai looked great his rookie year, and fell off after. One HUGE difference? Tarik Glenn Retired. IMHO, enormously underrated.

[Wyld1]

The stretch play

You nailed it! That and draws were very effective as PM and Edge worked well together in disguising it and also sold the pass action brilliantly because of it.

[schwamm]

You nailed it! That and draws were very effective as PM and Edge worked well together in disguising it and also sold the pass action brilliantly because of it.

And what would have allowed the stretch play to continue to work after James left? Maybe someone who could seal off the edge and create an outside lane? Addai only had one year with Glenn on the line, the Addai/Rhodes combo looked great in '06, and they worked the stretch play well that year. The next year was where we started seeing the "hop, hop, hop, cloud of dust, loss of a yard", and I suspect it was because Addai was so used to seeing a wide opening around the outside, and suddenly in his second year, it was nowhere to be found.

[Wyld1]

And what would have allowed the stretch play to continue to work after James left? Maybe someone who could seal off the edge and create an outside lane? Addai only had one year with Glenn on the line, the Addai/Rhodes combo looked great in '06, and they worked the stretch play well that year. The next year was where we started seeing the "hop, hop, hop, cloud of dust, loss of a yard", and I suspect it was because Addai was so used to seeing a wide opening around the outside, and suddenly in his second year, it was nowhere to be found.

I agree, Glenn's loss was huge!

[21isSuperman]

then how do you explain epic monster Edgerrin James rushing seasons? three 1500 yard seasons and a 1700 yard season.

It's either that we were a pretty darn good run blocking team as well or EJ is simply an epic RB and something that Addai or Donald Brown can never do.

I guess OL is not the only thing that makes RB's great. Maybe its great RB's that make RB's great.

Of course, the RB himself has to have some talent and ability. Edge was a better RB than Brown or Addai. But we don't need a superstar RB on our team, especially if Peyton comes back. Sure, it would be nice to have a guy like Adrian Peterson in the backfield, but it isn't necessary. With Peyton, we were a pass first team. We need the RB to be a solid pass blocker and be able to catch the ball out of the backfield. Our RB needs to gain about 4-5 yards per carry so we can keep the defenses honest and let Peyton do his thing with the play action. We don't need a 2000 yard rusher; it would be nice, but we don't need one. We need a guy who can catch, block, and run decently. Addai has shown he can do all three.

[rccoltsfan]

Until about 2004.

From 2004 forward, we have drafted 65 players.

By my count, Addai-Bethea-Pollak-Wheeler-Garcon-Tamme-Brown-Mola-Powers-Collie-Painter-McAfee-Hughes-Angerer-Thomas-Eldridge-Castonzo-Illijana-Nevis-Carter-Rucker......21 are still on the team.....

Of those 21.....1 of them is good (Bethea)......Several are Average (Collie,Garcon,Angerer)....3 are RBs....1 is a kicker.....the others, are backups and or to young to tell.....

Your rating system is based on...? I doubt that you'll find many to agree with you that Angerer is 'average', while concussions have kept Collie from developing a great start.

Regardless, why are you only focusing on players still on the team? My point was, we have had players come & go...with some outstanding performances while they were Colts. Bob Sanders, Marlin Jackson, Kelvin Hayden didn't even make your list...how solid were they our first Superbowl run? Clint Sessions, Jerraud Powers, Matt Giordano, Tyjuan Hagler, Philip Wheeler...maybe not "super-stars", but SOLID players who fit our needs when we needed them.

11 out of 13 years into the playoffs...ALL on Peyton's arm? If that's a fact, then why would any of you consider it a good thing to get rid of him?

[Superman]

The quarterback issue wasn't the only issue last season, but it was the biggest. I think the second biggest was ineffective coaching, and hopefully that's been solved. The other that's plagued the team the past two seasons was injuries, and hopefully that will get better. The offensive line was better last year, even with the injuries. We need help in the secondary more than anything else.

[Superman]

11 out of 13 years into the playoffs...ALL on Peyton's arm? If that's a fact, then why would any of you consider it a good thing to get rid of him?

The question isn't whether we want Peyton; of course we do, all of us. The question is whether he's capable of playing at a high level anymore.