A Good Analysis Of Peyton's 9-10 Playoff Record

[chad72]

NO PROMOTIONAL POSTING ON THE SITE2012-archives/february/why-the-colts-are-a-9-10-playoff-team-in-the-peyton-manning-era.html#livefyre_thread

My take on it, Peyton was primarily responsible for about 3 of those losses - namely the 2 losses at Foxboro, and 1 loss vs Steelers. The rest - either the whole team stunk (loss 0-14 at Jets) or 2 out of the 3 phases - D and ST got consistently outplayed that he did not get as much team help, IMO.

[Coffeedrinker]

I would agree with that assessment. Especially early in his career he had a tendency to, when things did not go well early, to push and call too many pass plays, try to complete a pass when no one was open, etc. That was a big turn around that he did in 2006, he maintained his balance and "took" what the D gave him and let the rest take care of itself.

A perfect example of that is Addai running for the go ahead TD in the AFCC game. Even 2005 Manning would have checked to a pass play 9 times out of 10 in that situation.

[CR91]

well lets look it

1999 titans- young inexperience colt team going up against a far superior team

2000 dolphins- could have won, but defense didnt play well

2002 jets- nobody played well at all and the score board tells the story 41-0

2003 patriots- peyton had a terrible game

2004 patriots- offense never showed up

2005 steelers- peyton was never given the time to do anything.

2007 chargers- defense couldnt pressure david carr not alone rivers and volek

2008 chargers- id say it was alittle bit of both because peyton was having trouble figuring out their defense and it wasnt helping that scfaries was having the game of his career and the defense got torched by sproles

2009 saints- there was zero pass rush once freeney was out and brees just rip us apart

2010 jets- i blame coaching for this loss. i have no idea why rhodes was in the game so much. i dont know why we ran the ball to just kick a fg. i dont know why caldwell called a boneheaded timeout.

[oldunclemark]

http://www.coltsauth...livefyre_thread

My take on it, Peyton was primarily responsible for about 3 of those losses - namely the 2 losses at Foxboro, and 1 loss vs Steelers. The rest - either the whole team stunk (loss 0-14 at Jets) or 2 out of the 3 phases - D and ST got consistently outplayed that he did not get as much team help, IMO.

very interesting....

...all Colts fans should read this because it supports almost everyone's theories...

[WSO]

2002 Jets, 2003 Pats, 2004 Pats, 2009 Saints. I know he has played bad in some wins too.

But on the flip side he has some brilliant games. .his perfect QB rating against the Broncos was mind blowing. Only one other QB has ever had a perfect QB rating in the playoffs. Many times the stats dont show it either. 2006 AFCCG for example.

[presto123]

http://www.coltsauth...livefyre_thread

My take on it, Peyton was primarily responsible for about 3 of those losses - namely the 2 losses at Foxboro, and 1 loss vs Steelers. The rest - either the whole team stunk (loss 0-14 at Jets) or 2 out of the 3 phases - D and ST got consistently outplayed that he did not get as much team help, IMO.

He didn't get a lot of team help a lot of times in the regular season either so you really can't blame the D and ST totally. The D and ST stayed the same(usually bad or mediocre) but it's Peyton's level of play in the playoffs that dropped more times than not. That is his only weakness. He just usually doesn't play his greatest games when it matters most. Yes he should have had more help from the D over the years(I put that on Polian) but Peyton has got to shoulder a good part of the blame for our playoff failures. I'm not a Peyton hater(I love the guy) just being realistic here. Even when we won the SB he didn't play particularly well.

[chad72]

He didn't get a lot of team help a lot of times in the regular season either so you really can't blame the D and ST totally. The D and ST stayed the same(usually bad or mediocre) but it's Peyton's level of play in the playoffs that dropped more times than not. That is his only weakness. He just usually doesn't play his greatest games when it matters most. Yes he should have had more help from the D over the years(I put that on Polian) but Peyton has got to shoulder a good part of the blame for our playoff failures. I'm not a Peyton hater(I love the guy) just being realistic here. Even when we won the SB he didn't play particularly well.

The quality of teams in the playoffs being different have an impact on the scoring in the postseason, that is where balance (or lack of) gets magnified in low scoring affairs. Peyton lost 4 home games by 11 points (16-17 vs Jets, 16-19 vs Titans, 18-21 vs Steelers, 24-28 vs Chargers). I am looking at SB runs for Eli, he never lit up the scoreboard except for 1 game vs the Packers this year. The 38-34 game happened with Peyton in his SB run as well, actually under more daunting circumstance. Then, there were games he lit up the Broncos in ungodly fashion (who doesn't, Brady just proved that by throwing 6 TDs, right ?). Then the no-punt Chiefs game on the road where Peyton was sensational. When Rodgers played a soft D like the Falcons, he lit them up on the road. But when Rodgers played the Bears' D, he had to rely on a pick-six to score 21 points for the Packers in the NFCCG.

Same thing with Brees. He lit up the Cardinals like Peyton lit up the Broncos. Then, the next game, he played a better D vs the Vikes and was not that impressive, and thanks to fumbilities from Peterson and Harvin, Brees' Saints win by a FG to get to the SB.

Rodgers lost a high scoring duel 45-51 to the Cardinals on the road, Brees has gone down swinging on the road twice to the Seahawks and 49ers now, all games where they played well as QBs, IMO. Peyton went down swinging 24-28 vs the Chargers at home.

So, all the elite QBs we mention - Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, Eli have all had their share of outstanding games on the road, and their share of going-down-swinging games on the road (Eli & Peyton don't have one yet where they put up 30 pts or more on the road and lost, the others do). That is why the W-L record does not accurately reflect the share of credit or blame given to the QB exclusively, IMO.

[Superman]

http://www.coltsauth...livefyre_thread

My take on it, Peyton was primarily responsible for about 3 of those losses - namely the 2 losses at Foxboro, and 1 loss vs Steelers. The rest - either the whole team stunk (loss 0-14 at Jets) or 2 out of the 3 phases - D and ST got consistently outplayed that he did not get as much team help, IMO.

How was he responsible for the second loss at Foxborough?

[chad72]

How was he responsible for the second loss at Foxborough?

He did not take enough chances, IMO. He was still haunted by the previous year's loss and was afraid to take chances. Cannot win much in the playoffs playing "not to lose". Yes, we can blame Tom Moore, we can blame even Dungy but ultimately, the O's responsibility is to put up points to give your D a chance and the least the QB should do is put up more than 3 points, IMO.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I'm not sure which game, but I do remember one of those Foxboro games where a few interceptions were on plays where receivers were held/hit illegally. Not making an excuse but stating a fact.

It's hard to put the Pitt or the NO loss on him in my opinion either.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Had Nick Harper just simply chose to run around Big Ben as opposed to trying to run over him, game over and beating Pittsburgh is always well earned and that one was there for the stealing.

[oldunclemark]

well lets look it

1999 titans- young inexperience colt team going up against a far superior team

2000 dolphins- could have won, but defense didnt play well

2002 jets- nobody played well at all and the score board tells the story 41-0

2003 patriots- peyton had a terrible game

2004 patriots- offense never showed up

2005 steelers- peyton was never given the time to do anything.

2007 chargers- defense couldnt pressure david carr not alone rivers and volek

2008 chargers- id say it was alittle bit of both because peyton was having trouble figuring out their defense and it wasnt helping that scfaries was having the game of his career and the defense got torched by sproles

2009 saints- there was zero pass rush once freeney was out and brees just rip us apart

2010 jets- i blame coaching for this loss. i have no idea why rhodes was in the game so much. i dont know why we ran the ball to just kick a fg. i dont know why caldwell called a boneheaded timeout.

91..

In the loss to the Jets ..didnt Peyton throw short on a roll out 3rd and 6 that would have allowed us a first down (before Adam V's field goal) .and the chance to run the clock down to the final second before kicking?

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

well lets look it

1999 titans- young inexperience colt team going up against a far superior team

2000 dolphins- could have won, but defense didnt play well

2002 jets- nobody played well at all and the score board tells the story 41-0

2003 patriots- peyton had a terrible game

2004 patriots- offense never showed up

2005 steelers- peyton was never given the time to do anything.

2007 chargers- defense couldnt pressure david carr not alone rivers and volek

2008 chargers- id say it was alittle bit of both because peyton was having trouble figuring out their defense and it wasnt helping that scfaries was having the game of his career and the defense got torched by sproles

2009 saints- there was zero pass rush once freeney was out and brees just rip us apart

2010 jets- i blame coaching for this loss. i have no idea why rhodes was in the game so much. i dont know why we ran the ball to just kick a fg. i dont know why caldwell called a boneheaded timeout.

Honestly I only blame Peyton for the 2003 game. The SD game we had chances just not to be.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Had Nick Harper just simply chose to run around Big Ben as opposed to trying to run over him, game over and beating Pittsburgh is always well earned and that one was there for the stealing.

Still if Mike V makes the kick we re golden!! Our OL was HORRABLE IN THAT GAME!!

[Superman]

He did not take enough chances, IMO. He was still haunted by the previous year's loss and was afraid to take chances. Cannot win much in the playoffs playing "not to lose". Yes, we can blame Tom Moore, we can blame even Dungy but ultimately, the O's responsibility is to put up points to give your D a chance and the least the QB should do is put up more than 3 points, IMO.

We put a premium on protecting the ball and playing a field position game, which made sense given the conditions and the team we were playing. We couldn't run the ball, at all. The offensive line had a few blips throughout the game, not all of them resulting in sacks. Playing against a great defense, and with all those things in play, I don't think it was the quarterback's fault that the offense couldn't score.

Not to mention the two fumbles, one in NE territory, that snuffed out drives. And then, the defense was horrible, unable to get off the field in the second half. The Pats were able to shorten the game, and they capitalized with two touchdowns on back to back 14 and 15 play drives.

I get that, with our offense, setting records throughout the year, you would expect more than three points. Should have scored more than three points, but Manning can't run block and get the run game going. He can't complete passes and catch them, and secure possession. He certainly can't play defense and stop Corey Dillon from racking up 144 yards. And in the playoffs, against one of the best teams in recent history, on the road, in the snow, having your quarterback throw for 230 yards in just 22 minutes of possession, with no run support, isn't a bad game.

I put that game mostly on the defense. Not on Manning at all.

[Superman]

91..

In the loss to the Jets ..didnt Peyton throw short on a roll out 3rd and 6 that would have allowed us a first down (before Adam V's field goal) .and the chance to run the clock down to the final second before kicking?

Yeah, it was to Blair White. Throw was too short, but he was under pressure and White had a good chance to catch the ball. And I think it was 3rd and 2. Better choice would have been to run, regardless of whether you convert or not, but those are the breaks.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

91..

In the loss to the Jets ..didnt Peyton throw short on a roll out 3rd and 6 that would have allowed us a first down (before Adam V's field goal) .and the chance to run the clock down to the final second before kicking?

He did throw low but on purpose & it was catch-able, he was under pressure & Peyton put it the only place he could. IMO White should have caught it.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Still if Mike V makes the kick we re golden!! Our OL was HORRABLE IN THAT GAME!!

Valid points, goes to show that blame is always hard to place directly on one player.

[CR91]

91..

In the loss to the Jets ..didnt Peyton throw short on a roll out 3rd and 6 that would have allowed us a first down (before Adam V's field goal) .and the chance to run the clock down to the final second before kicking?

i could have swean it was a 3rd and 8 and we elected to run the ball.

[Ryan Pelley]

I wrote something very similar a few months ago.

Peyton did have 4 interceptions in the 2003 AFC Championship game, still had a chance to tie at the end, but a blatant pass interference call against Marcus Pollard went ignored, as well as I think 8 other penalties that the NFL later admitted went uncalled.

2007 Divisional Round vs. Chargers is probably one of the best games I have ever seen Peyton play. Started 11 for 11, hit Dallas for a Touchdown on the first drive, and the offense was looking unstoppable. Kelvin Hayden gets a great interception on the sideline, and Colts are moving again.... Then Marvin Harrison is oddly moving around, fumbles, Chargers get momentum, and it's close the rest of the game. Peyton had 2 interceptions, both at the fault of the receivers (one which was Kenton Keith at the SD 2 yard line... A dump off, right through his hands) Peyton was just incredible that whole game.

[oldunclemark]

Yeah, it was to Blair White. Throw was too short, but he was under pressure and White had a good chance to catch the ball. And I think it was 3rd and 2. Better choice would have been to run, regardless of whether you convert or not, but those are the breaks.

..and it was that kickoff return that beat us..

If we stop the Jets at their 20.....Sanchez cant move them 50 yards in 50 seconds

[FireJimCaldwell]

The Jets game where nobody showed up. Many have looked at the 2 interception stat line and they make it seem like it was all on Manning, but it was 34-0 before he threw his first INT. The offense sucked, defense sucked, special teams sucked...

QT Score Team Drive Status
1 0-0 Colts  Three and out Punt
1 0-7 Jets 5 play 77 yd TD Drive
1 0-7 Colts  13 play 48 yd drive ends with  Missed FG of 41 yards
2 0-10 Jets 9 play 51 yd drive ends with FG
2 0-17 Jets  Colts Fumble KO Jets 7 play 39 yard TD Drive
2 0-17 Colts  3 & Out Punt
2 0-17 Jets 8 play 32 yard drive then a punt
2 0-17 Colts  3 & Out Punt
2 0-24 Jets Colts 6 plays 42 yard TD drive
2 0-24 Colts  3  & Out/End of Half
3 0-27 Jets Huge KO return, 4 play drive FG
3 0-27 Colts  6 plays 13 yards and then a punt
3 0-27 Jets 3 & out Punt
3 0-27 Colts  3 & out Punt
3 0-34 Jets 11 Play 74 yard TD drive
3 0-34 Colts  8 play 41 drive Manning interception
4 0-41 Jets 13 play 64 yard TD drive
4 0-41 Colts  4 play 51 yard drive ends with Manning inteception
4 0-41 Jets 5 Play 12 yard drive ends game.

[oldunclemark]

The Jets game where nobody showed up. Many have looked at the 2 interception stat line and they make it seem like it was all on Manning, but it was 34-0 before he threw his first INT. The offense sucked, defense sucked, special teams sucked...

QT Score Team Drive Status
1 0-0 Colts  Three and out Punt
1 0-7 Jets 5 play 77 yd TD Drive
1 0-7 Colts  13 play 48 yd drive ends with  Missed FG of 41 yards
2 0-10 Jets 9 play 51 yd drive ends with FG
2 0-17 Jets  Colts Fumble KO Jets 7 play 39 yard TD Drive
2 0-17 Colts  3 & Out Punt
2 0-17 Jets 8 play 32 yard drive then a punt
2 0-17 Colts  3 & Out Punt
2 0-24 Jets Colts 6 plays 42 yard TD drive
2 0-24 Colts  3  & Out/End of Half
3 0-27 Jets Huge KO return, 4 play drive FG
3 0-27 Colts  6 plays 13 yards and then a punt
3 0-27 Jets 3 & out Punt
3 0-27 Colts  3 & out Punt
3 0-34 Jets 11 Play 74 yard TD drive
3 0-34 Colts  8 play 41 drive Manning interception
4 0-41 Jets 13 play 64 yard TD drive
4 0-41 Colts  4 play 51 yard drive ends with Manning inteception
4 0-41 Jets 5 Play 12 yard drive ends game.

that was an ugly, ugly game...almost blocked it out of my mind

[degjohn]

see

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=8700

I think field position and lack of possessions are most important thing. Easier to overcome in regular season against poor teams.

Up until this Super Bowl Manning/Colts had the two worst average field positions in history of playoffs (San Diego 2008 and New Orleans Super Bowl). Brady/Pats now replaced NO Super Bowl as the second worst average field position ever. Brady/Pats had very similar results (scored 17 points and lost fairly close game).

2003-2004 Pats were a better team playing at home in weather favorable to them. 2005 was the one really terrible loss as that was the best Indy Colts team ever.

[Fx Stryker]

2002 Jets, 2003 Pats, 2004 Pats, 2009 Saints. I know he has played bad in some wins too.

But on the flip side he has some brilliant games. .his perfect QB rating against the Broncos was mind blowing. Only one other QB has ever had a perfect QB rating in the playoffs. Many times the stats dont show it either. 2006 AFCCG for example.

The '02 Jets game is on Peyton? It was 41-0. Unless I am taking what you said the wrong way.

I wrote something very similar a few months ago.

Peyton did have 4 interceptions in the 2003 AFC Championship game, still had a chance to tie at the end, but a blatant pass interference call against Marcus Pollard went ignored, as well as I think 8 other penalties that the NFL later admitted went uncalled.

2007 Divisional Round vs. Chargers is probably one of the best games I have ever seen Peyton play. Started 11 for 11, hit Dallas for a Touchdown on the first drive, and the offense was looking unstoppable. Kelvin Hayden gets a great interception on the sideline, and Colts are moving again.... Then Marvin Harrison is oddly moving around, fumbles, Chargers get momentum, and it's close the rest of the game. Peyton had 2 interceptions, both at the fault of the receivers (one which was Kenton Keith at the SD 2 yard line... A dump off, right through his hands) Peyton was just incredible that whole game.

Two in a row might I add.

[WSO]

The '02 Jets game is on Peyton? It was 41-0. Unless I am taking what you said the wrong way.

Two in a row might I add.

What do you want me to say? It was Peytons worst playoff game of his career. Even outside the 2 picks.

[Moose Of Woe]

..and it was that kickoff return that beat us..

If we stop the Jets at their 20.....Sanchez cant move them 50 yards in 50 seconds

This is the Colts' "bend but over backwards" defense we're talking about. Even someone as awful as Sanchez could probably pull it off.

Also I agree with Coltsrules' assessment for all but 2003. Peyton didn't play great, heck he played poor. It might have something to do with his receivers being mugged all night long while the Patriots didn't get flagged. Sans Walt Coleman, we would have won that game. Also Ty Law is Manning's kryptonite.

2004 Was a different story. Put an offense against the best defense/team of the 2000 decade. Now consider it's based on timing and drop a blizzard on it. Result? 3 Points. Somehow Vanderyacht didn't shank that one. That was just a straight up fair buttwhoopin' courtesy of the Patriots. Peyton played god awful.

[Superman]

What do you want me to say? It was Peytons worst playoff game of his career. Even outside the 2 picks.

No it wasn't. Remarkably, we had a good chance to win the game that he played the worst in. He played worse in the 2006 playoffs against the Chiefs (3 picks) than he did in that Jets game. Ugly game, but it wasn't his worst.

[FireJimCaldwell]

No it wasn't. Remarkably, we had a good chance to win the game that he played the worst in. He played worse in the 2006 playoffs against the Chiefs (3 picks) than he did in that Jets game. Ugly game, but it wasn't his worst.

Worst?

He's was nearly flawless in that game. 2 of those int's seemed to be miscommunication... Outside of that he spot on the whole game. The Jets game was worse... Not all on him, but we couldn't keep drives moving and far too many 3 & outs.

[WSO]

No it wasn't. Remarkably, we had a good chance to win the game that he played the worst in. He played worse in the 2006 playoffs against the Chiefs (3 picks) than he did in that Jets game. Ugly game, but it wasn't his worst.

Im not sure what game you watched, he actually played pretty well against the Chiefs. The pick 6 made it look a lot worse but he made all the throws that game on the money. If completing nearly 80% of your passes is bad then I hope Manning is bad all the time!

[Superman]

Worst?

He's was nearly flawless in that game. 2 of those int's seemed to be miscommunication... Outside of that he spot on the whole game. The Jets game was worse... Not all on him, but we couldn't keep drives moving and far too many 3 & outs.

Im not sure what game you watched, he actually played pretty well against the Chiefs. The pick 6 made it look a lot worse but he made all the throws that game on the money. If completing nearly 80% of your passes is bad then I hope Manning is bad all the time!

@ FJC -- I think I had merged my memories of that game and the Ravens game the next week, which was worse. Ed Reed got him twice, and should have had a couple more, honestly. Really good defense the Ravens had, as always, and all we could manage was field goals all day. More than the doughnut against the Jets, of course.

Either way, I don't think the Jets game in '02 was his worst game. I think the Pats in '03 was, and we still had a shot at pulling that one off.

[FireJimCaldwell]

@ FJC -- I think I had merged my memories of that game and the Ravens game the next week, which was worse. Ed Reed got him twice, and should have had a couple more, honestly. Really good defense the Ravens had, as always, and all we could manage was field goals all day. More than the doughnut against the Jets, of course.

Either way, I don't think the Jets game in '02 was his worst game. I think the Pats in '03 was, and we still had a shot at pulling that one off.

The Ravens game was played different to a point. We had a couple of quick plays called, where he would come to the line, snap and throw, as opposed to waiting for the clock slowly tick down. I know Reed got one of those, and maybe another.

Against KC there was a pass to Harrison where it looked like they weren't on the same page, and Law ended up with it. There was one where he slightly over threw Moorehead(i think) that ended up in KC's hands deep in the redzone. and I'm having trouble remembering the 3rd one in my mind, but I do remember making comments on that game about 2 of them being as much on the WR as the QB.

For the most part, he was sharp in the KC game outside of those 3 throws. I think he was like 30/40 in that game. Not his best game, but not his worst.

[Jules]

He is not a bad playoff QB.

But, to be fair he often did not have "the magic" some QBs show in the playoffs either more often.

To be honest, no matter the playoff game I often expect Eli to pull out a drive or two for scores if he needs to. With the Colts you hold your breathe.

He is an all time great. But, not an all time great postseason QB.

JMO

[CR91]

i think peyton's best playoff game outside the broncos was the jets game in 09. once he figured out that defense there was nothing rex ryan could do to stop him.

[Coffeedrinker]

Yeah, it was to Blair White. Throw was too short, but he was under pressure and White had a good chance to catch the ball. And I think it was 3rd and 2. Better choice would have been to run, regardless of whether you convert or not, but those are the breaks.

It was a good, White caught the ball there was one defender, Bart Scott, and Devan had him engaged. As soon as White caught the ball, Scott tossed Devan aside like a rag doll and made the tackle.

If the Colts had a descent guard on that play, it would have resulted in a first down and AV would have been kicking the winning FG with just a few seconds left in the game.

[21isSuperman]

I liked it. Very good analysis

[pacolts56]

I would agree with that assessment. Especially early in his career he had a tendency to, when things did not go well early, to push and call too many pass plays, try to complete a pass when no one was open, etc. That was a big turn around that he did in 2006, he maintained his balance and "took" what the D gave him and let the rest take care of itself.

A perfect example of that is Addai running for the go ahead TD in the AFCC game. Even 2005 Manning would have checked to a pass play 9 times out of 10 in that situation.

I agree with your post 100%... and for me, that Pittsburgh loss was almost as sickening as the SBIII loss to the Jets. Mostly because I'm convinced we would have smoked the Seahawks had we beaten the Steelers and then Denver.... who Peyton feasted on so many times previously.

The frustrating thing about the Steeler loss for me.... beside the fact that my wife is a Steelers fan.... was the fact that we abandoned the run almost completely in the 2nd half despite a pretty solid 1st half from Edge... who had carved them up pretty well for 120+ yds in a MNF game just a month or so earlier. Almost all of his carries and yardage came in the 1st half, and had we stuck with a more balanced attack a bit longer, it may have set up some cleaner passing opportunities.

But it just seemed like exactly what you stated took place and Peyton (and Tom Moore?) simply panicked... or something. The following season with Addai as a rookie that more balanced run/pass approach finally took hold and paid off.

[Superman]

It was a good, White caught the ball there was one defender, Bart Scott, and Devan had him engaged. As soon as White caught the ball, Scott tossed Devan aside like a rag doll and made the tackle.

If the Colts had a descent guard on that play, it would have resulted in a first down and AV would have been kicking the winning FG with just a few seconds left in the game.

We're both right and both wrong. I said it was 3rd and 2; it was 3rd and 6. You said White made the catch; it was incomplete. That's why I thought we should have run the football, to force the Jets to use another timeout. Oh well. Should have won the game, if not for a blown kickoff coverage, a blown pass coverage on the Braylon catch, and a bad timeout. The 50 yarder by AV should have been enough to win the game.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=310108011&period=0

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

We're both right and both wrong. I said it was 3rd and 2; it was 3rd and 6. You said White made the catch; it was incomplete. That's why I thought we should have run the football, to force the Jets to use another timeout. Oh well. Should have won the game, if not for a blown kickoff coverage, a blown pass coverage on the Braylon catch, and a bad timeout. The 50 yarder by AV should have been enough to win the game.

http://scores.espn.g...108011&period=0

Coffee STILL DOGGING DEVAN???????????

[Coffeedrinker]

We're both right and both wrong. I said it was 3rd and 2; it was 3rd and 6. You said White made the catch; it was incomplete. That's why I thought we should have run the football, to force the Jets to use another timeout. Oh well. Should have won the game, if not for a blown kickoff coverage, a blown pass coverage on the Braylon catch, and a bad timeout. The 50 yarder by AV should have been enough to win the game. http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=310108011&period=0

You are correct. The play I was talking about was the 2nd down play but I thought it was 3rd down.