The Offseason Reading Series #12: My case for Peyton Manning as the greatest quarterback of all time

[21isSuperman]

1 hour ago, JimJaime said:

I think that reasoning is flawed every great QB has had a great HC. Also Brady has done it with such vastly different talent on O. I mean to disregard a man who goes to the Championship game 75% of the time he is behind center, and the SB 50% of the time is just wrong. Let's not forget that the Hoodie was 4-12 his first year without Brady and failed to make the playoffs with the same team that went 16-0 the year before the only minus was Brady. So to disregard his greatness IMO is wrong. Is he the GOAT in my very biased opinion yes. Does that make someone else's opinion who the GOAT is wrong? Nope. 

Agreed.  Many consider Montana as the GOAT even though he had an excellent coach.

[George Peterson]

Brady and Manning are the two greatest of their era, they both have a place in the discussion for GOAT.

 

However, Brady has had more opportunities to get it done on the biggest stage, and he's capitalized on those opportunities.  Even if you want to give Peyton some credit for making the most of the chances he had, so has Brady.

 

There is no doubt that Peyton is one of the very best quarterbacks of all time.  Peyton Manning is probably just behind Brady and Montana, held back only by a certain lack of playoff opportunity.  But Brady and Montana made their own opportunities in the playoffs in a way that Manning is just a tick behind them in accomplishing.  A few too many second and third round exits.

 

Again, he's a great quarterback, but when you're evaluating the rarified air of the GOAT, the standards are VERY high, and Manning is just that quarter notch back behind the other two who belong in the conversation.  I'm honored to have had the chance to watch him over the years, he's fantastic, his rivalry with Brady defined both quarterbacks and he deserves all the honors history will grant him, and they will be many.  But he's the third greatest quarterback in history. Which is an amazing accomplishment and proof of a titanic career.

[mahagga73]

55 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

Brady and Manning are the two greatest of their era, they both have a place in the discussion for GOAT.

 

However, Brady has had more opportunities to get it done on the biggest stage, and he's capitalized on those opportunities.  Even if you want to give Peyton some credit for making the most of the chances he had, so has Brady.

 

There is no doubt that Peyton is one of the very best quarterbacks of all time.  Peyton Manning is probably just behind Brady and Montana, held back only by a certain lack of playoff opportunity.  But Brady and Montana made their own opportunities in the playoffs in a way that Manning is just a tick behind them in accomplishing.  A few too many second and third round exits.

 

Again, he's a great quarterback, but when you're evaluating the rarified air of the GOAT, the standards are VERY high, and Manning is just that quarter notch back behind the other two who belong in the conversation.  I'm honored to have had the chance to watch him over the years, he's fantastic, his rivalry with Brady defined both quarterbacks and he deserves all the honors history will grant him, and they will be many.  But he's the third greatest quarterback in history. Which is an amazing accomplishment and proof of a titanic career.

Brees has an argument for# 3 imo.

[mahagga73]

23 hours ago, JimJaime said:

I think what hurt Manning In the playoffs is the simple fact the team NEEDED him be almost perfect to win. (Except for the 2 SB years where the Dedenses were good to great.) that's way to much pressure put on one mans shoulders and he did a damn good job anyways! 

 

Thats is why I always say GOAT is subjective as even stats can't tell the whole story.  Both men are great and will be in the discussion for a very long time for GOAT.

Brady had an array of scrubs behind him on offense. Same could be said of him .

[mahagga73]

1 hour ago, coltsorioles said:

Here is a simple fact to end the manning brady debate. Manning missed a season the Colts went 2-14. Brady missed a season the patriots went 11-5..  Manning left after winning the super bowl the Broncos did not even make the playoffs the following year. Brady is suspended 4 games the patriots go 3-1 beating 2 playoff teams and winning in Arizona without gronk as well. Brady has always had better teams

Ok, so Hasselbeck went 6-2 a few years back while Luck went 3-7 or so . That makes Matt better. Going on your logic. The Pats went 11-5 because they have had a superior coach . They have not had anywhere near the star power of the Colts,  especially on offense . False.  The 3 years we had a consistently good D in the regular season , we didn't win the SB in any of them.  

[mahagga73]

49 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

Brady and Manning are the two greatest of their era, they both have a place in the discussion for GOAT.

 

However, Brady has had more opportunities to get it done on the biggest stage, and he's capitalized on those opportunities.  Even if you want to give Peyton some credit for making the most of the chances he had, so has Brady.

 

There is no doubt that Peyton is one of the very best quarterbacks of all time.  Peyton Manning is probably just behind Brady and Montana, held back only by a certain lack of playoff opportunity.  But Brady and Montana made their own opportunities in the playoffs in a way that Manning is just a tick behind them in accomplishing.  A few too many second and third round exits.

 

Again, he's a great quarterback, but when you're evaluating the rarified air of the GOAT, the standards are VERY high, and Manning is just that quarter notch back behind the other two who belong in the conversation.  I'm honored to have had the chance to watch him over the years, he's fantastic, his rivalry with Brady defined both quarterbacks and he deserves all the honors history will grant him, and they will be many.  But he's the third greatest quarterback in history. Which is an amazing accomplishment and proof of a titanic career.

Unitas>Manning. 4th or 5th maybe.  .500 in the playoffs. Brees is creeping into the conversation. He will own all passing records before he retires.  If he wins another title he may be 3. 

[George Peterson]

25 minutes ago, mahagga73 said:

Brees has an argument for# 3 imo.

He really doesn't.  He's a great numbers quarterback, but he's a Marino -- good player, but has had opportunities and never really been great about rising to meet them.

 

The difference between a Manning and a brees are subtle enough that some people can fool themselves into thinking they don't exist, but it comes down to the number of times they make opportunities for real greatness for their team -- when they take an improbable victory and make it look easy in retrospect. Manning did it several times.  Brady seems to make a living doing it.  Brees really didn't.

[mahagga73]

12 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

He really doesn't.  He's a great numbers quarterback, but he's a Marino -- good player, but has had opportunities and never really been great about rising to meet them.

 

The difference between a Manning and a brees are subtle enough that some people can fool themselves into thinking they don't exist, but it comes down to the number of times they make opportunities for real greatness for their team -- when they take an improbable victory and make it look easy in retrospect. Manning did it several times.  Brady seems to make a living doing it.  Brees really didn't.

What? Did you miss the SB he outplayed Manning.  

[mahagga73]

On 7/11/2017 at 8:24 PM, ColtsBlitz said:

This should be in the newspaper. I'm not kidding, you should try to publish this

Why? So the rest of the country can laugh at us. 

[Tsarquise]

3 hours ago, JimJaime said:

I think that reasoning is flawed every great QB has had a great HC. Also Brady has done it with such vastly different talent on O. I mean to disregard a man who goes to the Championship game 75% of the time he is behind center, and the SB 50% of the time is just wrong. Let's not forget that the Hoodie was 4-12 his first year without Brady and failed to make the playoffs with the same team that went 16-0 the year before the only minus was Brady. So to disregard his greatness IMO is wrong. Is he the GOAT in my very biased opinion yes. Does that make someone else's opinion who the GOAT is wrong? Nope. 

Tom Brady wasn't the reason the Pats went from 4-12 to 10-6 or whatever their record was. Brady was a game manager back then. Also, yeah, they missed the playoffs in 08, but they had a 11-5 record, which is great, and they had a worse record the year after in 2009. The Patriots have won with out him; there isn't much of a drop off. 

 

But the problem I have with this sudden, almost unanimous claim that Brady is the GOAT, is that it is based off of Super Bowl wins, which is an inherently flawed way of judging a QB. Dan Marino isnine of the best of all time, and Manning would still be great even if he didn't win a SB.

 

I would bet that there are many QB's that would experience the same amount of success or more than Brady if paired with Bellichick, such as Manning, Rodgers, and Brees just to name a few. Do you truly and objectively believe that Brady, on his own, is better than those QB's?

 

I can't ever really remember being that impressed by him. Even the games where the Pats stomped us it wasn't because of the diety that is Brady, it was because of a defense that couldn't stop a nose bleed. I remember the 13- 14 Colts still being in the game because of the subpar play of Brady. 

 

I remember in 06 against the Colts at Gillette Stadium, the guy threw 4 interceptions.

 

I remember him being not much more than a game manager from 01 - 04.

 

I remember him choking in the 06 AFCCG when he thought Marlin Jackson was playing for the Colts. 

 

I remember him only being able to score 14 points in the losses to the Giants. 

 

I remember him throwing a multitude of interceptions against the Ravens in the 09 wild card game; the same team the Colts curb stomped. 

 

I'm not saying he isn't one of the all time great, but to say with out a doubt that he js the goat is not being objective at all. I think anyone who considers him the greatest of all time is either a biased Pat's fan, or someone who isn't thinking critically or objectively. 

 

I feel he isn't even the best QB of his generation. 

 

There is a lot of luck in football, and it is the ultimate team game, and Brady has benefitted from both; a great team, and great luck.  

[ColtsBlitz]

1 minute ago, mahagga73 said:

Why? So the rest of the country can laugh at us. 

It’s all facts and a very good read. 

[mahagga73]

8 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

Tom Brady wasn't the reason the Pats went from 4-12 to 10-6 or whatever their record was. Brady was a game manager back then. Also, yeah, they missed the playoffs in 08, but they had a 11-5 record, which is great, and they had a worse record the year after in 2009. The Patriots have won with out him; there isn't much of a drop off. 

 

But the problem I have with this sudden, almost unanimous claim that Brady is the GOAT, is that it is based off of Super Bowl wins, which is an inherently flawed way of judging a QB. Dan Marino isnine of the best of all time, and Manning would still be great even if he didn't win a SB.

 

I would bet that there are many QB's that would experience the same amount of success or more than Brady if paired with Bellichick, such as Manning, Rodgers, and Brees just to name a few. Do you truly and objectively believe that Brady, on his own, is better than those QB's?

 

I can't ever really remember being that impressed by him. Even the games where the Pats stomped us it wasn't because of the diety that is Brady, it was because of a defense that couldn't stop a nose bleed. I remember the 13- 14 Colts still being in the game because of the subpar play of Brady. 

 

I remember in 06 against the Colts at Gillette Stadium, the guy threw 4 interceptions.

 

I remember him being not much more than a game manager from 01 - 04.

 

I remember him choking in the 06 AFCCG when he thought Marlin Jackson was playing for the Colts. 

 

I remember him only being able to score 14 points in the losses to the Giants. 

 

I remember him throwing a multitude of interceptions against the Ravens in the 09 wild card game; the same team the Colts curb stomped. 

 

I'm not saying he isn't one of the all time great, but to say with out a doubt that he js the goat is not being objective at all. I think anyone who considers him the greatest of all time is either a biased Pat's fan, or someone who isn't thinking critically or objectively. Because I feel he isn't even the best QB of his generation. 

 

There is a lot of luck in football, and it is the ultimate team game, and Brady has benefitted from both; a great team, and great luck.  

Who on offense did Brady have that was as good as Wayne, Marvin, Edge, Clark , Garvin, etc. for any sustained period of time ? And please list all the players the Patriots had on Defense that are HOF material.  Nobody thinks Manning is better than Brady outside some Colts fans . And that's ok . He made his own legacy.  

[coltsorioles]

Manning made all those guys great. When edge, and Dallas Clark left the Colts they were nothing. Marvin could not get a job anywhere. Reggie and Joseph addai both tried out for the patriots and could not even cut it.   

[Tsarquise]

11 minutes ago, mahagga73 said:

Who on offense did Brady have that was as good as Wayne, Marvin, Edge, Clark , Garvin, etc. for any sustained period of time ? And please list all the players the Patriots had on Defense that are HOF material.  Nobody thinks Manning is better than Brady outside some Colts fans . And that's ok . He made his own legacy.  

You truly believe Brady is a better QB than Manning? What makes him better besides all of the Super Bowls that his superior coaching staff and team helped him win? 

 

It didn't matter who Manning played with, he still put up numbers. He never played with any player of the same caliber as Randy Moss. And never had a dominant TE such as Gronkowski. And had no coach as good as Belichick. The Pats defense was super opportunistic; they were responsible for those early championships. 

 

Even if Manning isn't better than Brady, and I'm not saying he isn't, Brady is definitely not the greatest Quarterback to ever play the game. 

[Tsarquise]

What does Brady do better than Manning or Rodgers at the QB position?

[George Peterson]

40 minutes ago, mahagga73 said:

What? Did you miss the SB he outplayed Manning.  

You mean the one where Joey Porter outplayed Manning?

[Gramz]

These comparisons never get old, or do they?   

 

Kind of reminds me of saying I have

 The best husband ever!  Only to hear someone else say.... no you don't,  I do .... I'll list the reasons why.

 

We all have our own realities.  

My reality is: Peyton Best Ever!

 

 

[mahagga73]

10 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

What does Brady do better than Manning or Rodgers at the QB position?

Win playoff games and championships . All that matters .  

[George Peterson]

Just now, Gramz said:

These comparisons never get old, or do they?   

 

Kind of reminds me of saying I have

 The best husband ever!  Only to hear someone else say.... no you don't,  I do .... I'll list the reasons why.

 

We all have our own realities.  

My reality is: Peyton Best Ever!

 

 

Objective reality:  Peyton is amazing and deserves his place among the greats, is one of the best quarterbacks both in his generation and all time, but is just that half step down from the true GOAT tier.

[mahagga73]

2 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

You mean the one where Joey Porter outplayed Manning?

Tracy Porter wasn't it? 

[George Peterson]

Just now, mahagga73 said:

Tracy Porter wasn't it? 

You're right.  My memory is going.  But you know what I'm talking about.  It was the Saints secondary that sealed the deal against Manning.  Brees was pretty pedestrian that game.

[21isSuperman]

1 minute ago, mahagga73 said:

Win playoff games and championships . All that matters .  

Those are team accomplishments.  Plus, people like to randomly question the validity of some wins.  Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl but it was against Rex Grossman (which is a stupid argument in so many ways).  Then Peyton Manning won a second Super Bowl but he was being carried by his defense.  Teams win games and championships, not players

[mahagga73]

Just now, George Peterson said:

You're right.  My memory is going.  But you know what I'm talking about.  It was the Saints secondary that sealed the deal against Manning.  Brees was pretty pedestrian that game.

Brees was 32 of 35 , 300 plus yards and 3 TD. One of the better performances in the game.  The Colts couldn't stop him . 

[mahagga73]

7 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Those are team accomplishments.  Plus, people like to randomly question the validity of some wins.  Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl but it was against Rex Grossman (which is a stupid argument in so many ways).  Then Peyton Manning won a second Super Bowl but he was being carried by his defense.  Teams win games and championships, not players

That's true . But when you get to 6 rings?  with a revolving cast of guys that couldn't cut it anywhere else , it's no fluke.  I'm no fan of the dude,  but the sheer number of playoff wins,  27 or 8, 9 losses . The 2 SB he lost were on fluke type plays.  He's amazing when it counts .  MJ of football. His winning dwarfs everybody.  That being said , we were fortunate to have Manning . Pre-Manning days you couldn't but dream of a SB win. MJ has been passed by a lot of guys stats wise , but not many dispute he is the Goat.  

[21isSuperman]

3 minutes ago, mahagga73 said:

That's true . But when you get to 6 rings?  with a revolving cast of guys that couldn't cut it anywhere else , it's no fluke.  I'm no fan of the dude,  but the sheer number of playoff wins,  27 or 8, 9 losses . The 2 SB he lost were on fluke type plays.  He's amazing when it counts .  MJ of football. His winning dwarfs everybody.  That being said , we were fortunate to have Manning . Pre-Manning days you couldn't but dream of a SB win. 

Again, you're pointing to team accomplishments as proof of an individual's success.  Sure, he has a lot of Super Bowl rings and playoff wins, but how many times has he been on a team with a highly ranked defense?  How many times has he been coached by one of the greatest head coaches in NFL history?  Teams win games, including playoff games.

[mahagga73]

4 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Again, you're pointing to team accomplishments as proof of an individual's success.  Sure, he has a lot of Super Bowl rings and playoff wins, but how many times has he been on a team with a highly ranked defense?  How many times has he been coached by one of the greatest head coaches in NFL history?  Teams win games, including playoff games.

The QB has more influence in winning and losing than any position in sports , only rivaled by goalie maybe.  Was there any doubt last week Jax was going to get Bradied. Not by me.  The Colts defense argument is a common excuse , but the 3 years they had the best defenses, top notch,  they didn't win the SB in any of them.  Dungy was hardly a scrub coach.  

[Gramz]

38 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

Objective reality:  Peyton is amazing and deserves his place among the greats, is one of the best quarterbacks both in his generation and all time, but is just that half step down from the true GOAT tier.

And I'm not denying that Brady deserves a place among the greats either. 

 

My objective reality, right or wrong, is that a lot of other contributing factors enter into these equations. I think there is no denying the fact the Peyton added so much excitement to the entire league and his presence is greatly missed now. As so many others have stated, SB wins are team accomplishments.  Go back and read @21isSuperman opening post. Peyton has so many accomplishments, and I'm not going to list them all again.

 

As far as Brady, I personally will never be able to put aside the gatekeeper factor, (for all those gates), along with the blatant deception.  

 

Right or wrong, proven or not proven, there is more than a few ***** attached to certain accomplishments that helps me to form my own opinion.  

 

 

[Tsarquise]

1 hour ago, mahagga73 said:

Brees was 32 of 35 , 300 plus yards and 3 TD. One of the better performances in the game.  The Colts couldn't stop him . 

No these were Brees' stats

COMP: 32/39--YDS: 288--TD: 2--INT: 0

 

Here we're Mannings

 

COMP: 31/45 -- YDS: 333 -- TD: 1 -- INT: 1

[Two_pound]

The media like to tell us how great certain owners are. The name Irsay has never been in that conversation. The Irsay's had a grand total of  2 playoff wins before Peyton arrived. The great kraft family had already been to a sb before Brady got there. I actually like to imagine how many sb's Brady would have gone to had he been drafted by the Browns, or the Lions, or the Chiefs, or maybe the Chargers. You know, teams that never have any post season luck or ability to get there. Peyton changed that here for the Colts, something that is probably a greater accomplishment than anything Brady has done. And then Peyton took a downtrodden Bronco team to 2 sb's in 4 years. The Colts were a laughing stock before Peyton and his work ethic and talents and abilities got here. Thank you Peyton! (even though the media still attack the Colts way too much)

[21isSuperman]

4 hours ago, mahagga73 said:

The QB has more influence in winning and losing than any position in sports , only rivaled by goalie maybe.  Was there any doubt last week Jax was going to get Bradied. Not by me.  The Colts defense argument is a common excuse , but the 3 years they had the best defenses, top notch,  they didn't win the SB in any of them.  Dungy was hardly a scrub coach.  

 

While QBs do influence winning and losing more than any single position, Peyton constantly had to bring up weak defenses.  If Peyton didn't have a good game, chances were the Colts were losing.  He wasn't surrounded with a complete team.  So again, while QBs do influence things more, you need a complete team to win.

[mahagga73]

3 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

No these were Brees' stats

COMP: 32/39--YDS: 288--TD: 2--INT: 0

 

Here we're Mannings

 

COMP: 31/45 -- YDS: 333 -- TD: 1 -- INT: 1

Pretty close . I knew it was close to that.  Was he MVP? Tried to forget that game.  

[Tsarquise]

1 hour ago, mahagga73 said:

Pretty close . I knew it was close to that.  Was he MVP? Tried to forget that game.  

I think he was, indeed, the MVP. 

[crazycolt1]

Playoffs and super bowl wins are team accomplishments.

Who has the most MVPs?  The MVP is voted on by everyone involved that are considered the most knowledgeable people in the industry.

Fandom does not play into that at all.

[Dark Superman]

I mean, Peyton didn't have to cheat to win his rings.

[JimJaime]

11 hours ago, mahagga73 said:

Brady had an array of scrubs behind him on offense. Same could be said of him .

Yes but he has always had a defense and an O line (as long as scar was line coach, that pinyata game against Denver still painful

watch) he has rarely had to carry the team in every game, he will win them a game or two.. and has the greatest comebacks in SB history to help him solidify his GOAT status with many, but I can see why other say Manning, or Montana.

[life long]

Peyton Manning took 4 HC's to SuperBowls. Only Qb to win Sbs in 2 different cities. Too many individual records to list. Then consider the pace of records set (games played).

 

Even Montana made the Chiefs respectable. I am skeptical Brady could enjoy similar success without the hooded one. Montana did well enough without Walsh, would Brady have enjoyed the type of success Manning had throughout his many coaching changes? We will never know because Brady is smart enough to know he is already on the Rushmore of Qbs and would likely retire before being traded. I just want Manning haters to agree Peyton is on that cliff face as well. Although I am 99% sure everyone in this forum would agree PM has already secured his place amongst the best of all time... Peyton being ranked just under Brady by most is okay with me. I know the truth .

[2006Coltsbestever]

-This is a Great Thread, 21Superman's breakdown of things is very impressive. I factor in SB wins for a Starting QB, Statistics, and League MVP's as being very important when ranking a QB. League MVP is important because that means you were voted by the media as being the most important player to your team or best player in the league basically. Statistics are important as well because it shows how dominating a QB was at his position. Winning SB's is the most important thing but not the only factor when ranking QB's. Winning a SB is team thing as well.

 

-When talking about the GOAT in the SB era (52 seasons), I think it comes down to Brady, Montana, and Peyton for a lot of reasons. Bradshaw and Aikman are the other 2 QB's that won more SB's than Peyton as a starter. They cant be in the convo of Top 3 IMO because Statistically and winning League MVP's they don't measure up, it's not close. At least Peyton has won 2 SB's, so he is a multiple SB Champion. Out of the QB's that have won 2 SB's as a starter, none of them come close Peyton statistically or League MVP's either.

 

-Here are Statistics, League MVP's won, and SB's won from each of these players in the 52 seasons of the SB era:

TD's thrown

Peyton 539

Brady 488

Montana 273

Bradshaw 212

Aikman 165

 

Yards thrown

Peyton 71,940

Brady 66,159

Montana 40,551

Aikman 32,942

Bradshaw 27,989

 

League MVP's won

Peyton 5

Brady 2/Montana 2

Bradshaw 1

Aikman 0

 

SB's won as a starter

Brady 5

Bradshaw 4/Montana 4

Aikman 3

Peyton 2

 

-When it comes to Statistics and League MVP's nobody compares to Peyton except Brady does Statistically. Eventhough Peyton only has won 2 SB's, he won one with 2 different teams under different Coaches. Also only 12 QB's in the SB era have won 2 or more as a starter, so winning 2 is pretty solid.

 

 

[IcyRhythms]

Some have the mentality that post season play is all that matters. When you evaluate a QB, I think you have to look at EVERYTHING they've done. If post season play is what these discussions really come down to, you're basically telling me guys like Trent Dilfer are just as good as Favre, Young, and Brees. You're also telling me Trent Dilfer is quite a bit better than someone like Dan Marino and half as good as John Elway. If those things are the ultimate deciding factor for you, you think pretty highly of a guy like Trent Dilfer.

 

Peyton has a ridiculous amount of records as a Colt and as an NFL QB in general. A lot of the ones a QB would want for bragging rights, Peyton owns them

 

Peyton is the ONLY five time MVP. That means that the people voting feel that he is without doubt the most valuable player of all time. Favre is second with 3 MVP's, but who cares about that when he and Trent Dilfer have the same amount of rings. They're on the same level. Am I right? 

 

Peyton is the only starting QB in history to win a SB with two different teams

 

Peyton is the only QB in history to lead 4 different head coaches to a Superbowl(I know many will try and argue he was carried on the last SB win by the Denver defense. Once you do that, though, you really only help my argument that Brady just isn't on Peyton's level. Imagine what would have been possible with a defense like that in Indi...think about it)

 

Peyton is the only QB in history with a combined win history during season-post season of 102 when his defense was ranked 16th or worse.(Tom Brady has only 20-25ish)

 

I also can't get behind the Brady bunch with all of the cheating. People don't say the same thing about you for 10-15yrs if there isn't some truth to it. Don't give me any of that hatorade nonsense. People may have been salty about the Pats winning in the early 2000's because their teams just couldn't get it done(myself included), but once the nonstop cheating stuff came out, any respect I could give the Pats went out the window. They'll always have one of these next next to those SB wins * 

 

That being said, SB wins never really meant that much to me when deciding who the best is. Marino and Favre were my favorite before Manning came along. One of them has one, and the other no rings. If you were to ask me who I'd take in their prime trying to build a super team...I'd take Peyton 1A and Marino 1B

 

 

Tom Brady can win 5 more rings. It won't change my mind. *shrugs*

 

[Indy1996]

2 minutes ago, IcyRhythms said:

Some have the mentality that post season play is all that matters. When you evaluate a QB, I think you have to look at EVERYTHING they've done. If post season play is what these discussions really come down to, you're basically telling me guys like Trent Dilfer are just as good as Favre, Young, and Brees. You're also telling me Trent Dilfer is quite a bit better than someone like Dan Marino and half as good as John Elway. If those things are the ultimate deciding factor for you, you think pretty highly of a guy like Trent Dilfer.

 

Peyton has a ridiculous amount of records as a Colt and as an NFL QB in general. A lot of the ones a QB would want for bragging rights, Peyton owns them

 

Peyton is the ONLY five time MVP. That means that the people voting feel that he is without doubt the most valuable player of all time. Favre is second with 3 MVP's, but who cares about that when he and Trent Dilfer have the same amount of rings. They're on the same level. Am I right? 

 

Peyton is the only starting QB in history to win a SB with two different teams

 

Peyton is the only QB in history to lead 4 different head coaches to a Superbowl(I know many will try and argue he was carried on the last SB win by the Denver defense. Once you do that, though, you really only help my argument that Brady just isn't on Peyton's level. Imagine what would have been possible with a defense like that in Indi...think about it)

 

Peyton is the only QB in history with a combined win history during season-post season of 102 when his defense was ranked 16th or worse.(Tom Brady has only 20-25ish)

 

I also can't get behind the Brady bunch with all of the cheating. People don't say the same thing about you for 10-15yrs if there isn't some truth to it. Don't give me any of that hatorade nonsense. People may have been salty about the Pats winning in the early 2000's because their teams just couldn't get it done(myself included), but once the nonstop cheating stuff came out, any respect I could give the Pats went out the window. They'll always have one of these next next to those SB wins * 

 

That being said, SB wins never really meant that much to me when deciding who the best is. Marino and Favre were my favorite before Manning came along. One of them has one, and the other no rings. If you were to ask me who I'd take in their prime trying to build a super team...I'd take Peyton 1A and Marino 1B

 

 

Tom Brady can win 5 more rings. It won't change my mind. *shrugs*

 

Your wrong tony dungy was there for 2 and John Fox was there for 2

[IcyRhythms]

1 minute ago, Indy1996 said:

Your wrong tony dungy was there for 2 and John Fox was there for 2

Dungy 1

Caldwell 1

Fox 1

and Kubiak if I'm not mistaken