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The GOAT in each sport


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Theres a lot of talk about the GOAT in sports on here so I figured I'd make a thread on it. 

 

GOATs in my opinion (not doing every sport just the ones I am a fan of or at least follow)

 

NFL- It makes me sick to say it but its Tom Brady IMO.

NBA- MJ. Though LeBron could pass him up one day. But its still MJ for me for now.

Hockey- Not a big fan of it but it would probably be Wayne Gretzky, right?

 

I tried to think of one for Baseball but honestly, not much of a fan.

 

Golf- Should be Tiger Woods, he was on his way to being the GOAT but now hes mostly a GOOF.

 

Boxing- Ali (need I say more?)

 

I'm sure I am missing some sports, but these are the ones who popped into my head.

 

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19 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Theres a lot of talk about the GOAT in sports on here so I figured I'd make a thread on it. 

 

GOATs in my opinion (not doing every sport just the ones I am a fan of or at least follow)

 

NFL- It makes me sick to say it but its Tom Brady IMO.

NBA- MJ. Though LeBron could pass him up one day. But its still MJ for me for now.

Hockey- Not a big fan of it but it would probably be Wayne Gretzky, right?

 

I tried to think of one for Baseball but honestly, not much of a fan.

 

Golf- Should be Tiger Woods, he was on his way to being the GOAT but now hes mostly a GOOF.

 

Boxing- Ali (need I say more?)

 

I'm sure I am missing some sports, but these are the ones who popped into my head.

 

 

It would be Babe Ruth in Baseball. 

 

Football -- too many different positions. Brady is among them, I guess.

 

NBA: Jordan

 

Hockey: yes, Gretzky 

 

Golf: it has to be Jack Nicklaus with 18 majors

 

In Women's Tennis, I would say Serena Williams.

Men's Tennis, I am not so sure. Maybe Rod Laver.

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Baseball I am going Willie Mays, I cant go Babe Ruth because African Americans weren't allowed to play back in his days. So I am taking a player Post WW2/Jackie Robinson merger = 1947 until present. Mays almost hit as many HR's as Ruth did as well, he hit 660, Ruth hit 714. Mays also had a lifetime batting avg. of over .300 and won 12 Gold Gloves. Mays was also a better athlete than Ruth was. Mays did win a Championship as well so he has a Ring on top of his brilliant career! So I go, Baseball - Mays

 

Football - It has to be a QB IMO because the QB is the most important position on the field. It's between Tom Brady, Joe Montana, and Peyton Manning IMO. I would probably give it to Brady and not just based on Rings although that is part of it with him having 5 but he also has great statistics to go along with that. Montana was the most clutch by my eye test going 4-0 in SB's and had 0 INT's in his SB's. Peyton was a Coach out on the field and won 5 League MVP's and 2 SB's with 2 different teams. So all 3 were awesome. Final verdict though I go, Brady

 

Basketball - Hands down it's Michael Jordan, 6 Championships(6-0 in Finals), 5 League MVP's, and 6 Finals MVP's. He also won 10 Scoring Titles. Magic Johnson comes in 2nd here IMO. His career got shortened due to the HIV virus he obtained but in 12 seasons he had over 10,000 Assists and took his team to 9 Finals winning 5 Championships. He is clearly the greatest Point Guard of all-time. Final verdict though I go, Jordan

 

 

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3 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

NFL- It makes me sick to say it but its Tom Brady IMO.

 

2 hours ago, NFLfan said:

Football -- too many different positions. Brady is among them, I guess.

 

1 hour ago, Luck is Good said:

NFL- Tom Brady

 

Ew, ugh, and ewwww.  I mean, I respect Brady, he seems like a good guy living the American Dream, but we're Colts fans, right?  Let's name Jerry Rice the GOAT and call it a day.

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NBA I'm done I've made up my mind it's LeBron he is a way better all around player then anyone to ever play and is gonna break nearly all records 

 

NFL is Peyton Manning dufe is the greatest QB to ever play the colts lack of being able to build a D shafted Peyton yet he still won so many games and a super bowl with very bad Defenses more then Brady or Montana could habe done 

 

NASCAR I think the best driver ever is Jeff Gordon he would have way more championships had nascar kept the pints system the same and never created the ignorant chase 

 

No idea about MLB OR NHL 

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20 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Baseball I am going Willie Mays, I cant go Babe Ruth because African Americans weren't allowed to play back in his days. So I am taking a player Post WW2/Jackie Robinson merger = 1947 until present. Mays almost hit as many HR's as Ruth did as well, he hit 660, Ruth hit 714. Mays also had a lifetime batting avg. of over .300 and won 12 Gold Gloves. Mays was also a better athlete than Ruth was. Mays did win a Championship as well so he has a Ring on top of his brilliant career! So I go, Baseball - Mays

 

Football - It has to be a QB IMO because the QB is the most important position on the field. it's between Tom Brady, Joe Montana, and Peyton Manning IMO. I would probably give it to Brady and not just based on Rings although that is part of it with him having 5 but he also has great statistics to go along with that. Montana was the most clutch by my eye test going 4-0 in SB's and had 0 INT's in his SB's. Peyton was a Coach out on the field and won 5 League MVP's and 2 SB's with 2 different teams. So all 3 were awesome. Final verdict though I go, Brady

 

Basketball - Hands down it's Michael Jordan, 6 Championships(6-0 in Finals), 5 League MVP's, and 6 Finals MVP's. He also won 10 Scoring Titles. Magic Johnson comes in 2nd here IMO. His career got shortened due to the HIV virus he obtained but in 12 seasons he had over 10,000 Assists and took his team to 9 Finals winning 5 Championships. He is clearly the greatest Point Guard of all-time. Final verdict though I go, Jordan

 

 

To follow this up, I don't know JACK about Hockey. I have never followed it, so sorry I didn't mention Hockey. Most people say Wayne Gretzky and I do know he had an amazing career but that's about it.

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3 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

Lol I getcha man. I don't particularly care for Brady, but there's just too much there to deny IMO

 

I will deny it til the cows come home and they bury me in my Colts jersey.

 

I will admit that BB is the greatest coach that has ever cheated in the NFL, and Brady has benefited from that.  Is Brady great?  Sure.  Did he enjoy great coaching which led to lots of team-success?  YEAH.  Is he a better QB than Manning?  NO-to-the-NO.

 

That's about all you're going to get from me.  Unless you want more, cuz like I said, I'll keep going til the cows come home and they bury me in my Colts jersey...

 

 Manning = :goat:  :thmup:  :colts:

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8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

To follow this up, I don't know JACK about Hockey. I have never followed it, so sorry I didn't mention Hockey. Most people say Wayne Gretzky and I do know he had an amazing career but that's about it.

I wish Indy had professional baseball and hockey teams. I know we have minor league teams for both, but I don't care enough about them. 

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3 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Hockey- Not a big fan of it but it would probably be Wayne Gretzky, right?

 

3 hours ago, NFLfan said:

Hockey: yes, Gretzky

 

21 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I cant go Babe Ruth because African Americans weren't allowed to play back in his days.

 

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

To follow this up, I don't know JACK about Hockey. I have never followed it so sorry I didn't mention Hockey. Most people say Wayne Gretzky and I do know he had an amazing career but that's about it.

 

I like your point @2006Coltsbestever about how athletes from that era had the advantage of not having to play against "everyone".

 

By that logic, we can't really crown Gretzky as the GOAT.  He didn't have players like Subban roaming the ice on the other team.  I think there is a whole generation of black kids that are going to toss the whole notion of hockey being a "white mans' game" into the garbage.  The fact that we have a black superstar on a NASHVILLE hockey team shows that the tides are turning.

 

A generation from now, Gretzky may be a footnote from a "darker" time in hockey.

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3 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

I wish Indy had professional baseball and hockey teams. I know we have minor league teams for both, but I don't care enough about them. 

Yeah back in the 80's the Indianapolis Indians were awesome in Triple AAA. They won a few Championships. Reason I am a Cubs fan is because I chose them when I was young due to having no Baseball team here. Cubs were always on WGN when I was a kid.

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10 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

 

 

 

I like your point @2006Coltsbestever about how athletes from that era had the advantage of not having to play against "everyone".

 

By that logic, we can't really crown Gretzky as the GOAT.  He didn't have players like Subban roaming the ice on the other team.  I think there is a whole generation of black kids that are going to toss the whole notion of hockey being a "white mans' game" into the garbage.  The fact that we have a black superstar on a NASHVILLE hockey team shows that the tides are turning.

 

A generation from now, Gretzky may be a footnote from a "darker" time in hockey.

I have had many people try to get me into watching Hockey in the past because people know I love sports and I have tried but just couldn't get into it. Same for Soccer, Soccer is really boring IMO. Not saying it isn't a great sport - it is for you Soccer fans but it's boring to me. I can see how some can say Baseball is boring but when the Playoffs roll around, that sport is best IMO. Very intense and a lot of drama.

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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have had many people try to get me into watching Hockey in the past because people know I love sports and I have tried but just couldn't get into it. Same for Soccer, Soccer is really boring IMO. Not saying it isn't a great sport - it is for you Soccer fans but it's boring to me. I can see how some can say Baseball is boring but when the Playoff roll around, that sport is best IMO. Very intense and a lot of drama.

 

There is a huge difference between playing sports and watching sports.  Football is really the only sport where I can watch the entire game and be entertained.

 

I've played soccer my whole life and I love the sport, but watching it is like a slow torture.  I like playing baseball, golf, bowling etc. but trying to watch these sports is so boring.  If I need to take a nap on a Sunday, I just turn on golf or bowling on ESPN.  Guaranteed I'm falling asleep in like 5 minutes.

 

:sleepy:

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Baseball I am going Willie Mays, I cant go Babe Ruth because African Americans weren't allowed to play back in his days. So I am taking a player Post WW2/Jackie Robinson merger = 1947 until present. Mays almost hit as many HR's as Ruth did as well, he hit 660, Ruth hit 714. Mays also had a lifetime batting avg. of over .300 and won 12 Gold Gloves. Mays was also a better athlete than Ruth was. Mays did win a Championship as well so he has a Ring on top of his brilliant career! So I go, Baseball - Mays

 

Football - It has to be a QB IMO because the QB is the most important position on the field. it's between Tom Brady, Joe Montana, and Peyton Manning IMO. I would probably give it to Brady and not just based on Rings although that is part of it with him having 5 but he also has great statistics to go along with that. Montana was the most clutch by my eye test going 4-0 in SB's and had 0 INT's in his SB's. Peyton was a Coach out on the field and won 5 League MVP's and 2 SB's with 2 different teams. So all 3 were awesome. Final verdict though I go, Brady

 

Basketball - Hands down it's Michael Jordan, 6 Championships(6-0 in Finals), 5 League MVP's, and 6 Finals MVP's. He also won 10 Scoring Titles. Magic Johnson comes in 2nd here IMO. His career got shortened due to the HIV virus he obtained but in 12 seasons he had over 10,000 Assists and took his team to 9 Finals winning 5 Championships. He is clearly the greatest Point Guard of all-time. Final verdict though I go, Jordan

 

I like your explanations behind your choices. Good job. 

 

Nothing for hockey? Gordie Howe, Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Steve Yzerman???

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55 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I will deny it til the cows come home and they bury me in my Colts jersey.

 

I will admit that BB is the greatest coach that has ever cheated in the NFL, and Brady has benefited from that.  Is Brady great?  Sure.  Did he enjoy great coaching which led to lots of team-success?  YEAH.  Is he a better QB than Manning?  NO-to-the-NO.

 

That's about all you're going to get from me.  Unless you want more, cuz like I said, I'll keep going til the cows come home and they bury me in my Colts jersey...

 

 Manning = :goat:  :thmup:  :colts:

Totally agree with you! 

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6 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

I don't know why we don't have at least 1 more. We have an NBA and NFL team. We should have one more between hockey and baseball.

The reasoning behind baseball is definitely because of all the teams littered around Indianapolis. Cubs, White Sox, Cardinals and Reds are all pretty close. Hockey would probably be because Indianapolis isn't considered ideal for a team

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Baseball I am going Willie Mays, I cant go Babe Ruth because African Americans weren't allowed to play back in his days. So I am taking a player Post WW2/Jackie Robinson merger = 1947 until present. Mays almost hit as many HR's as Ruth did as well, he hit 660, Ruth hit 714. Mays also had a lifetime batting avg. of over .300 and won 12 Gold Gloves. Mays was also a better athlete than Ruth was. Mays did win a Championship as well so he has a Ring on top of his brilliant career! So I go, Baseball - Mays

 

Football - It has to be a QB IMO because the QB is the most important position on the field. It's between Tom Brady, Joe Montana, and Peyton Manning IMO. I would probably give it to Brady and not just based on Rings although that is part of it with him having 5 but he also has great statistics to go along with that. Montana was the most clutch by my eye test going 4-0 in SB's and had 0 INT's in his SB's. Peyton was a Coach out on the field and won 5 League MVP's and 2 SB's with 2 different teams. So all 3 were awesome. Final verdict though I go, Brady

 

Basketball - Hands down it's Michael Jordan, 6 Championships(6-0 in Finals), 5 League MVP's, and 6 Finals MVP's. He also won 10 Scoring Titles. Magic Johnson comes in 2nd here IMO. His career got shortened due to the HIV virus he obtained but in 12 seasons he had over 10,000 Assists and took his team to 9 Finals winning 5 Championships. He is clearly the greatest Point Guard of all-time. Final verdict though I go, Jordan

 

 

For NFLfan because she asked me about Hockey so I just want to add to my original Post by quoting it. @NFLfan I have never followed Hockey or watched it much so I am so unqualified to do a breakdown of GOAT's in that sport. I know Wayne Gretzky had an amazing career and the general public/media say he is the GOAT when Hockey is brought up but other than that, don't know much here. Same for Soccer, never have followed it either. Men's Tennis - I would say Roger Federer - he has won the most majors. Golf - I would say Jack Nicklaus - he has won the most majors as well in that sport. Boxing - Ali for Heavy Weights, Sugar Ray Leonard for Middle Weights.

 

Regarding the GOAT in Football, it is definitely debatable because of the Patriots cheating scandals with Spygate and Deflategate. Not sure how much that should factor in to ranking Brady? A lot of people take away from Montana and Jerry Rice as well because Rice used stickum when it was Illegal. Peyton on the other hand has never been found guilty of cheating or has he admitted to doing so. Just food for thought. +1 for Peyton there anyway

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8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

For NFLfan because she asked me about Hockey so I just want to add to my original Post by quoting it. @NFLfan I have never followed Hockey or watched it much so I am so unqualified to do a breakdown of GOAT's in that sport. I know Wayne Gretzky had an amazing career and the general public/media say he is the GOAT when Hockey is brought up but other than that, don't know much here. Same for Soccer, never have followed it either. Men's Tennis - I would say Roger Federer - he has won the most majors. Golf - I would say Jack Nicklaus - he has won the most majors as well in that sport. Boxing - Ali for Heavy Weights, Sugar Ray Leonard for Middle Weights.

 

Regarding the GOAT in Football, it is definitely debatable because of the Patriots cheating scandals with Spygate and Deflategate. Not sure how much that should factor in to ranking Brady? A lot of people take away from Montana and Rice as well because Rice used stickem when it was Illegal. Peyton on the other hand has never been found guilty of cheating or has he admitted to doing so. Just food for thought.

 

I don't watch soccer but most people agree that the GOAT is Pele (Brazilian soccer player of the past). 

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6 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I think it's will be Messi or Renaldo before they are done hell could prolly make the case now for one of them 

 

You think? I don't know enough about soccer to know. Pele is legendary. It would be good to hear from soccer fans. I am not one.

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18 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

You think? I don't know enough about soccer to know. Pele is legendary. It would be good to hear from soccer fans. I am not one.

Ronaldo is absolutely amazing I actually think he is better then Messi I'm not sure how he measures up to pele 

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45 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

A lot of people do say Messi but I never watch Soccer so I don't know :dunno:

 

30 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Ronaldo is absolutely amazing I actually think he is better then Messi I'm not sure how he measures up to pele 

 

I looked up "best soccer players of all time" and found some that have Pele and others that have Messi as the very best. Maradona and C. Ronaldo are among the other names I recognized that were in the top ten.

 

These are just two publications that ranked soccer players.

 

http://m.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-best-soccer-players-of-all-time

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/news/10-of-the-greatest-soccer-players-everyone-should-recognize/1xtu0uk289ca21maqlzci1pr4v

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6 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

I looked up "best soccer players of all time" and found some that have Pele and others that have Messi as the very best. Maradona and C. Ronaldo are among the other names I recognized that were in the top ten.

 

C. Ronaldo is one of the best scorers of all time, but Messi is up there with Pele as the greatest all-around soccer player ever.

 

Messi and Pele could score, play keep-away, play defense, and run circles around everyone else on the field.

 

C. Ronaldo is great, but IMO the Brazilian Ronaldo "The Phenomenon" was a better all-around soccer player than C. Ronaldo.

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For me, I wish GOAT categories in all sports had term limits on them. Yes, I'm aware that Greatest Of All Time indicates or ignores an athlete's retire or death, but I wish compiled lists instead said say within the last 5 yrs who is at the zenith of their sport.

 

It's too easy to go Jordan, Gretzky, Brady, Serena, & Ali without putting much thought into it. Essentially, what happens is a popularity contests where advertising dollars collide with Championships.  

 

What's unfair is that fans can fall into a trap of prisoner of the moment based on 1st name recognition alone & sometimes fans only really pay attention to 1 sport either the NFL or the NBA.  

 

And what criteria goes into their GOAT calculations? It's a lot to mull over. 

 

--Availability & the ability to stay healthy with no serious injuries

 

--How important a position is, your mastery of it, & whether your game is 1 on 1 or team based for success week after week

 

--The credibility of the referees who enforce your sport & how steroids are viewed by the Commissioners & fans in general. 

 

--The scoring apparatus, how penalties are called, the frequency of calls, what level of physical punishment is allowed, the weather conditions, where games are played, & what protocols exist for cancellation etc. 

 

--What do fans put a premium on more brute strength & speed or mental toughness & methodical strategy waiting for the perfect time to strike with an ace, a touchdown, a goal, a 3 point shot, a hole in 1, or a knockout? 

 

--How much weight are the caliber & quality of the coaching staffs given? Stats can be misleading in isolation. 

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32 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

For me, I wish GOAT categories in all sports had term limits on them. Yes, I'm aware that Greatest Of All Time indicates or ignores an athlete's retire or death, but I wish compiled lists instead said say within the last 5 yrs who is at the zenith of their sport.

 

It's too easy to go Jordan, Gretzky, Brady, Serena, & Ali without putting much thought into it. Essentially, what happens is a popularity contests where advertising dollars collide with Championships.  

 

What's unfair is that fans can fall into a trap of prisoner of the moment based on 1st name recognition alone & sometimes fans only really pay attention to 1 sport either the NFL or the NBA.  

 

And what criteria goes into their GOAT calculations? It's a lot to mull over. 

 

--Availability & the ability to stay healthy with no serious injuries

 

--How important a position is, your mastery of it, & whether your game is 1 on 1 or team based for success week after week

 

--The credibility of the referees who enforce your sport & how steroids are viewed by the Commissioners & fans in general. 

 

--The scoring apparatus, how penalties are called, the frequency of calls, what level of physical punishment is allowed, the weather conditions, where games are played, & what protocols exist for cancellation etc. 

 

--What do fans put a premium on more brute strength & speed or mental toughness & methodical strategy waiting for the perfect time to strike with an ace, a touchdown, a goal, a 3 point shot, a hole in 1, or a knockout? 

 

--How much weight are the caliber & quality of the coaching staffs given? Stats can be misleading in isolation. 

You almost have to be a nutty Sports Professor when doing these Rankings. Just throw a Players Career Statistics, Championships Won, Overall Games Won, League MVP's Won, Clutch Play, How Much a Player Carried a Team in Winning, The Overall Talent of said Player, what ERA a Player Played in, and How Much a Player Changed the Sport - then throw it into a blender and come out with your decisions lmao 

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14 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You almost have to be a nutty Sports Professor when doing these Rankings. Just throw a Players Career Statistics, Championships Won, Overall Games Won, League MVP's Won, Clutch Play, How Much a Player Carried a Team in Winning, The Overall Talent of said Player, what ERA a Player Played in, and How Much a Player Changed the Sport - then throw it into a blender and come out with your decisions lmao 

Absolutely, there's definitely a lot of number crunching & final quarter surpassing your opponent going on. 

 

It's like the Falcons meltdown against the Patriots. 3 yrs from now nobody will remember that Matt Ryan collapsed & cost his team a SB victory erasing the good things he did on offense for 3 Quarters & 10 minutes. You either seal the deal or you make it on a What Could Have Been List a decade later on NFL network. 

 

I will say though that baseball itself is very state driven--RPI's home runs, strikeouts, the rare perfect game. It was made for stat heaven. I can say that despite the fact that baseball & my level of expertise at following the sport are anything but proficient in the grand scheme of things. 

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On 6/11/2017 at 2:05 PM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

 

 

 

I like your point @2006Coltsbestever about how athletes from that era had the advantage of not having to play against "everyone".

 

By that logic, we can't really crown Gretzky as the GOAT.  He didn't have players like Subban roaming the ice on the other team.  I think there is a whole generation of black kids that are going to toss the whole notion of hockey being a "white mans' game" into the garbage.  The fact that we have a black superstar on a NASHVILLE hockey team shows that the tides are turning.

 

A generation from now, Gretzky may be a footnote from a "darker" time in hockey.

I don't buy your argument. If you want to say Gretzky played in a time when hockey was much cleaner with less hitting and the game was more open sure. He and Gordie Howe are a head above anyone else that has ever played. That said there is nothing keeping Latino or African Americans from playing. Nothing. You can't penalize players because minorities don't want to play. Hockey isn't an extremely expensive sport. It isn't golf. There is nothing holding anyone back. 

 

PS PK Subban is a nice player but he absolutely got owned by Sidney Crosby. He was invisible on the biggest stage and Crosby made him look silly physically and skillfully that series. Grant Fuhr is probably the greatest African-Canadian hockey player in NHL history. There have been several black hockey players and will continue to be more. There are many factors and reasons to say why GOAT lists are flawed (changes to rules and the games) but it doesn't change the fact in NHL history Gretzky worldly accepted "Great One".

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/11/2017 at 4:16 PM, NFLfan said:

 

I don't watch soccer but most people agree that the GOAT is Pele (Brazilian soccer player of the past). 

I had a Pele lunch box when I was a kid.  Don't know why, but I had one, lol.  It was probably on the cheap at the dime store or something.

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On 6/11/2017 at 3:05 PM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

I like your point @2006Coltsbestever about how athletes from that era had the advantage of not having to play against "everyone".

 

By that logic, we can't really crown Gretzky as the GOAT.  He didn't have players like Subban roaming the ice on the other team.  I think there is a whole generation of black kids that are going to toss the whole notion of hockey being a "white mans' game" into the garbage.  The fact that we have a black superstar on a NASHVILLE hockey team shows that the tides are turning.

 

A generation from now, Gretzky may be a footnote from a "darker" time in hockey.

 

I think you're equating two situations which actually are not the same. In baseball, athletes/ball players who could play the sport at the highest level were barred from playing because of their race. Some of the best players could play only in the Negro Leagues. So, guys like Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb played when black players were not allowed in MLB. That was 2006CBE's point.

 

What you are describing in hockey is completely different. The NHL was not segregated when Gretzky played. In fact, as Dgambill previously mentioned, Gretzky may have played with one of the best black hockey players ever. So, while there were not many, there were some black hockey players in the NHL at the time that Gretzky played.

 

So, yes, Gretzky can be crowned the GOAT of hockey.

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9 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I think you're equating two situations which actually are not the same. In baseball, athletes/ball players who could play the sport at the highest level were barred from playing because of their race. Some of the best players could play only in the Negro Leagues. So, guys like Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb played when black players were not allowed in MLB. That was 2006CBE's point.

 

What you are describing in hockey is completely different. The NHL was not segregated when Gretzky played. In fact, as Dgambill previously mentioned, Gretzky may have played with one of the best black hockey players ever. So, while there were not many, there were some black hockey players in the NHL at the time that Gretzky played.

 

So, yes, Gretzky can be crowned the GOAT of hockey.

 

I agree with you for now.  I'm just saying that hockey, due to where it is played for the most part, in addition to the cost of equipment, is a little behind other sports like soccer, baseball, basketball and football in terms of minority participation.  I don't think hockey is an exclusionary sport, quite the opposite.  I just don't think we've reached the point of representative participation.  Hockey has yet to reach the rest of the world the way soccer or baseball has.

 

I doubt Subban will be the best black player in hockey history, nor Gretzky the GOAT.  It's kind of a tricky situation, because maintaining ice-rinks for hockey is harder close to the equator.  So latin and african countries may be home to the greatest hockey players in the world, but they can't afford hockey, so they play soccer or baseball.  The greatest hockey players being Canadian is the norm for now, but I doubt that will last.

 

Sports are a constantly-evolving thing around the world.  We can't expect one country to keep producing the best athletes for a particular sport year in and year out.  The playing field eventually levels itself out.  And Gretzky may still stand alone at the top at the end of it all, I don't know.  I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised to see a Latino/Black/Asian player become the GOAT because their country finally embraced hockey.

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Messi is by far the greatest soccer player of all time. Yes, he's better than Pele and Ronaldo. He's on a level of his own, much like Brady or Rodgers. After that is Ronaldo, then the other greats fall in a third tier. 

 

As for football, it's hard to define a single GOAT. Many point to Rice, but I've seen Brady and Montana in discussions.

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NFL - Manning.   The play on the field, the coaching and the preparation.

NBA - Jordon

Hockey - Gretzky

MLB - Babe Ruth.   Hitting, pitching, the guy did it all.

Nascar - Dale Earnhardt

Swimming - Phelps

Water Polo - Dezső Gyarmati

Golf - Nichalaus

 

 

 

 

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