Colts Need To Be Buyers

[DarkHorse]

Build your team through the draft and free agency is for plugins

[AZColt11]

I have always thought the draft should be your foundation while FA was used to plug a couple of holes to "get you over the top".  The problem with Grigs was he was whiffing on so many draft picks that he was almost forced to use FA to help build the foundation.  And when you are counting on that many older vets then you are bound to fail, and fail he did.  

 

I sincerely hope this GM hits on a lot of his picks and isn't forced to go the other route.  I am not opposed to bringing in a vet or two if they help but don't go overboard with it.  The draft has got to be the foundation and I sincerely hope he gets a pass rusher or two in this draft.

[Carlos Danger]

3 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

I dont think you can build the defense over night.    Walden is productive. And had zero help.   His numbers compareable to Perry's.  And will be cheaper.

If Walden hits the market, he will likely be top 3 w/ regard to available Edge defenders. Probably #1 in terms of contract value when it's all said and done, imo. 

 It depends on who gets re-signed, of course, but he is probably going to be cheaper than any of the players that will match his production and likely cheaper than some who won't. 

 

I think re-signing Walden is a no-brainer if the price is right. Just me, though. 

 

 

[Dark Superman]

18 hours ago, CheezyColt said:

We tried that after the AFC Championship game and it cost us years of progress. The draft is the only way to build a sustainable team and I'm stoked that Ballard and Irsay seem to recognize that.

Grigson signed a bunch of old veterans that off-season and it backfired. I don't think Ballard would make that same mistake.

[Dark Superman]

18 hours ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

Buyer's remorse is rampant in the land of Free Agency.....that said, I hope a couple of prudent signings are made to help the defense.

Exactly. I'm not saying break the bank on two guys, but go out and fill a lot of these holes with guys who can come in and help this team become better.

 

If we went out and signed 1-2 difference makers.. I would be all for it.

[Dark Superman]

3 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

If Walden hits the market, he will likely be top 3 w/ regard to available Edge defenders. Probably #1 in terms of contract value when it's all said and done, imo. 

 It depends on who gets re-signed, of course, but he is probably going to be cheaper than any of the players that will match his production and likely cheaper than some who won't. 

 

I think re-signing Walden is a no-brainer if the price is right. Just me, though. 

 

 

Walden is 31 and will probably commdand $8-10 million annually for one year of production. Anything more than $6 million a year would be overkill. Learn from the Cole signing.

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, Green_Ranger said:

Walden is 31 and will probably commdand $8-10 million annually for one year of production. Anything more than $6 million a year would be overkill. Learn from the Cole signing.

 

I'll be very, very surprised if someone gives Walden $8 Mill a year or more.     Don't see that happening.

 

My hunch is in the $6-7 Mill per range.     Roughly 12-13 over 2 years,  or 20 over 3.      Hard to see more than that....    And not sure if the Colts will be the ones to pay that.....

 

 

[Carlos Danger]

43 minutes ago, Green_Ranger said:

Walden is 31 and will probably commdand $8-10 million annually for one year of production. Anything more than $6 million a year would be overkill. Learn from the Cole signing.

I think you are right if he gets 9 mil.

 

6 mil. is where my head was at. 

[Clem-Dog]

31 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'll be very, very surprised if someone gives Walden $8 Mill a year or more.     Don't see that happening.

 

My hunch is in the $6-7 Mill per range.     Roughly 12-13 over 2 years,  or 20 over 3.      Hard to see more than that....    And not sure if the Colts will be the ones to pay that.....

 

 

 

I concur.  He has earned a raise for sure, but anything more than 6-7 per would be overkill, especially for a player who waited to have his breakout during a contract season.  At worst he'd revert back into a stout run stopper on the edge.

[AKB]

I really hope we do not overpay Walden. I do like the physical presence he brings to the edge however. 

[Bluefire4]

Now fans are acting like Luck should have had a super bowl before year 6? What the hell is that?

[Coltfreak]

59 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

Now fans are acting like Luck should have had a super bowl before year 6? What the hell is that?

Realism????

[Track Guy]

We need to be smart buyers. We've got some room for perhaps a few key pick ups - just have to be smart about them.

[Bluefire4]

26 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Realism????

No way. Taking over a 2-14 team most people expected us to be in the top ten of the draft again the next year and we ended up winning 11 games 3 years in a row. We have had way more success than I expected and that has made us greedy.

 

Just because Luck was the first pick doesn't mean he should win 5 super bowls in his career. There have been many others that haven't won a super bowl in their first 5 years including Manning on this same team.

[Johnny colt]

20 hours ago, HarryTheCat said:

I almost didn't make it past "here" me out...

I myself am plenty smart enough to understand what he said.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

I'd hope that Ballard doesn't go too crazy in FA acquisitions, but at the same time, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to leave ~$50mil on the table when there are multiple positions of desperate need on the defensive side of the ball.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

11 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

Realism????

 

How so? Matt Ryan was the 3rd overall pick and made his first Super Bowl appearance last night, and he's 9 years into his career. Realistically speaking, a quarterback alone isn't enough to get you there, you also need a defense that can hold it's own against elite offenses, and the Colts haven't really had that yet in Luck's tenure so far.

[chad72]

On 2/5/2017 at 0:05 AM, COLTS449 said:

Ballard is gonna want to make a splash guys. I don't care what anyone says. LOL. I mean why do you think Grigson got fired? Because he was an incompetent fool who did nothing to improve the team in FA, and he was just plain dumb when it came to the draft and trades. Ballard isn't trying to make the same mistakes Grigson did. All GM's say build through the draft. But bet on it..... He'll bring in a few big names with 60 million to spend. He'll wanna turn things around overnight IMO. We can still build through the draft AND sign 3 impact free agents. If we sign say Nick Perry, AJ Bouye, and Brandon Williams, then hit big in the draft with an EDGE rusher or 2, an ILB, and a RB we wont even have to do much in FA in 2018. Then we can pretty much completely focus on building through the draft. But we have to hit big in this one and come out with at least 3 starters. I think Ballard's first signing may be a guard like Zeitler, Leary, or Lang personally. We haven't had an OL in years and with one of those 3 we would have a top 10 OL overnight. We'd be set everywhere except maybe RT, but one of Haeg or Clark should be able to hold it down after they have a year under their belts. Probably Clark. I definitely think he'll want to land one of Ingram or Perry too.  I don't see anyway one of those guys aren't a Colt by the end of the day on the NLY.

 

Nick Perry

Trumaine Johnson

Brandon Williams

TJ Lang

 

That would be a win. Then grab one of Takk, Williams, Harris in the 1st, and an ILB, RB , and another EDGE rusher in the 2nd and 3rd and 4th. In some order.

 

Also. I don't know the situation with Josh Gordon and Darryl Washington. But if both are going to be reinstated, and if they get released, traded or whatever....We should sign/trade for, both ASAP. We'd have a top 3 WR, and an elite ILB for dirt cheap if they can stay on the field. And I'm loving how Ballard seems like the kinda guy to take chances on guys. Hill, Peters, etc. And I don't remember but didn't Chris Jones do something sorta minor? Wasn't there some red flags with him? I cant remember. I know there was another DT who had issues aside from Nkemdiche, but not sure!

 

The 3 defensive players are the only ones I want, I really don't think we need the OL addition. Then, we re-sign Turbin, Butler (to replace Mike Adams at FS as starter and Mike Adams can come back at a vet price) and Doyle (only if the price is right). We need play makers badly to even take the D from putrid to respectable.

 

[John Waylon]

Well he's going to HAVE to spend some. That money HAS to be spent. Even if he does intend to build through the draft. He's going to have to go FA shopping in a few weeks because we can't fill out this roster any other way. What he buys remains to be seen, but he'll be buying something.

 

 

*

[Defjamz26]

If we look into FA we need young guys who can play winning football for 4 or more years. 

[Coltfreak]

2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

How so? Matt Ryan was the 3rd overall pick and made his first Super Bowl appearance last night, and he's 9 years into his career. Realistically speaking, a quarterback alone isn't enough to get you there, you also need a defense that can hold it's own against elite offenses, and the Colts haven't really had that yet in Luck's tenure so far.

Well we were in the AFCCG 2 yrs ago,   So it appears we should have been able to expand on that. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

14 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Well we were in the AFCCG 2 yrs ago,   So it appears we should have been able to expand on that. 

 

Who's to say we won't? Big picture wise, Luck still has the bulk of his prime left, and is signed long-term, and we just got a new GM. Sure, we had to endure 2 .500 seasons, but in the grand scheme of things, it could be A LOT worse.

[dw49]

21 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'll be very, very surprised if someone gives Walden $8 Mill a year or more.     Don't see that happening.

 

My hunch is in the $6-7 Mill per range.     Roughly 12-13 over 2 years,  or 20 over 3.      Hard to see more than that....    And not sure if the Colts will be the ones to pay that.....

 

 

 

IMO.. even what you have is a bit generous. I would look for something like 10 mill. over 2 years. Maybe signing bonus for around 2 mill and first year guaranteed. If inflation hits the cap ,as so many teams have money, then he gets something close to what you have.

 

I agree that he moves on .

[COLTS449]

23 hours ago, loudnproudcolt said:

Guys, as far as the cap is concerned, I think we will have north of 50M after we extend  Mewhort, Montcrief and Doyle and a few others who will be very low cap hits. The amount over 50M depends on cuts, and there will be more than DQ and Art. That is a lot of money for FA, and I agree I only want quality, not quantity. The one thing to consider though is because of Grigson's drafting, we have cap space of 79M in 2018. So if we don't spend a decent amount of cap space this year going after a couple quality FA's, we would enter 2018 with over 100M in cap space after our carryover of cap space from 2017 goes to 2018. Now in 2018 we will have some people to extend, Vontae, etc. but we are still going to have a huge amount of cap space. Grigson's draft picks have lead to a dearth of our own draft picks to sign, thus we are going to have two years with huge cap space. Don't waste it, but you have to find starters. After 2018, we can hopefully start extending draft picks that Ballard has drafted.

 

Williams over Poe

Lang over Zeitler

A top CB, but Bouye scares me because Houston's defense helps CBs.

 

3 top signings, all start and we will still have plenty of carryover for 2018 to sign all our players we want to extend, and we also can look at where the holes still are after the 2017 draft. 2018 we will have more cap space than this year regardless of what we do this year in FA!

 

I like Williams, Bouye, and Lang, but we absolutely have to sign one of Perry or Ingram. Even if we have to offer one Vernon money. They both are double digit sack machines. Pair a 1st rounder next to him like Takk, Williams, or Harris and we have a very, very good pass rush. Bouye doesn't scare me as much, because he didn't really get a chance to play his first 3 years, then when he got on the field he was an absolute stud, who is very good in man coverage. I think Johnson would be a great signing too though, or Gilmore if h hits the market. He may with Darby on the team I don't know. As for Vontae he wont get extended. 18 will be his last year with us baring a monster year like a couple years ago when he was a top 5 CB. I think we'll draft a CB this year and one early next year if we sign a Bouye or Johnson, and address the pass rush this offseason. We'll be looking for a guy to pair with our signing from this year. Then again. If we bring Bouye to put on the other side of Vontae, and say Nick Perry in FA, and draft, and one of Tim Williams, Takk McKinley or Charles Harris in the 1st and have a big time pass rush then Vontae may go back to looking like a superstar instead of a good number 2.

[COLTS449]

16 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

No way. Taking over a 2-14 team most people expected us to be in the top ten of the draft again the next year and we ended up winning 11 games 3 years in a row. We have had way more success than I expected and that has made us greedy.

 

Just because Luck was the first pick doesn't mean he should win 5 super bowls in his career. There have been many others that haven't won a super bowl in their first 5 years including Manning on this same team.

 

Would that team been 2-14 if Manning had played? You know the answer. We still had Wayne, Mathis, Freeney, Bethea, etc on the roster in 12, but in 2011 we had Garcon, Saturday, Clark, and a few more too. So it wasn't like he took over for Jacksonville in 2012. But Luck was a once in a 20 years type talent. He was not only the obvious choice, but people expected him to have immediate success, and he did even though we were strapped for cash Luck's rookie year. He took us to the playoffs, with no OL. Grigson refused to put a good offensive line in front of him and barley gave him anything else to work with, leading to him getting hurt last year, and then this year, other than Luck, pretty much the entire team was just terrible. All 3 levels of D were terrible, and the OL was on marginally better, but showed promise with rookies like Haeg and Clark, and obviously Kelly. The fact is though.....We should be a juggernaut team all across the board by now. But we signed terrible players instead of good players, traded away a 1st for nothing, and only got 2 or 3 good players in the draft the last 4 years.

[COLTS449]

We've gotten 2 or 3 good players in the draft the last 4 years. You have to ultimately build through the draft, but in this situation we HAVE to bring in at least 3 star caliber players in FA, then hit big in this years draft, and since we'll have like 70 something million to spend in 2018 we'll need to sign 2-3 great players in FA, then start truly building through the draft.

[Bluefire4]

15 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Would that team been 2-14 if Manning had played? You know the answer. We still had Wayne, Mathis, Freeney, Bethea, etc on the roster in 12, but in 2011 we had Garcon, Saturday, Clark, and a few more too. So it wasn't like he took over for Jacksonville in 2012. But Luck was a once in a 20 years type talent. He was not only the obvious choice, but people expected him to have immediate success, and he did even though we were strapped for cash Luck's rookie year. He took us to the playoffs, with no OL. Grigson refused to put a good offensive line in front of him and barley gave him anything else to work with, leading to him getting hurt last year, and then this year, other than Luck, pretty much the entire team was just terrible. All 3 levels of D were terrible, and the OL was on marginally better, but showed promise with rookies like Haeg and Clark, and obviously Kelly. The fact is though.....We should be a juggernaut team all across the board by now. But we signed terrible players instead of good players, traded away a 1st for nothing, and only got 2 or 3 good players in the draft the last 4 years.

You think it's so easy to be a GM like you can just throw money at players and they'll want to come here ignoring all other factors. Sick of people playing Madden and then thinking we can just sign 3-5 top notch free agents like this is the only place they think about going.

 

Grigson's problem probably was that the really good players chose to play somewhere else so he felt obligated to feel the needs by overpaying mediocre players. That is what led to his dismissal. It is not as simple to make a "juggernaut" team as everyone on here is making it.

[richard pallo]

56 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

You think it's so easy to be a GM like you can just throw money at players and they'll want to come here ignoring all other factors. Sick of people playing Madden and then thinking we can just sign 3-5 top notch free agents like this is the only place they think about going.

 

Grigson's problem probably was that the really good players chose to play somewhere else so he felt obligated to feel the needs by overpaying mediocre players. That is what led to his dismissal. It is not as simple to make a "juggernaut" team as everyone on here is making it.

Your last paragraph regarding the real good players choosing to play elsewhere is pure conjecture on your part.   We are all entitled to our opinion though.  We will never know. 

[COLTS449]

1 hour ago, Bluefire4 said:

You think it's so easy to be a GM like you can just throw money at players and they'll want to come here ignoring all other factors. Sick of people playing Madden and then thinking we can just sign 3-5 top notch free agents like this is the only place they think about going.

 

Grigson's problem probably was that the really good players chose to play somewhere else so he felt obligated to feel the needs by overpaying mediocre players. That is what led to his dismissal. It is not as simple to make a "juggernaut" team as everyone on here is making it.

 

I have a lot of respect for you as a poster @Bluefire4, but that's just laughable. You think Grigson went after big time play makers and they just chose not to play here........With Andrew Luck. You think if we had offered say Malik Jackson and Pernell McPhee they wouldn't have signed here instead of the Jags and Bears?? Come on bro. Or Rodney Hudson, Dan Williams, and etc before the Raiders became a good team again. If we had targeted big time players we would have landed a few. I mean come on. At least 1!!!! LOL. Its about the money and a little about the team. Players would love to play with Luck. You think Brandon Marshall wouldn't have wanted to play with Luck? We could sign him this offseason after he's cut. He can still ball. I think we actually need a WR. Dorsett isn't looking good. So ask Al Jeffery if he wouldn't want to play with Andrew Luck. LOL....LOL.....LOL.....He'd say no even though its the same amount of money, or more money, guaranteed and otherwise, I had rather play with a rookie QB in San Fran, a rookie or Tyrod Taylor in Chicago, etc.

 

But with good scouting and a competent GM. Yes we could have built a juggernaut by now. EASILY. Its been 5 years. Seattle did it in 2!!!! Just by hitting on our 1st through 3rd rounders on most years we could have Xavier Rhodes, Brandon Williams, Jason Verrett, Eric Kendricks, Markus Golden, and Danielle Hunter on our defense. I mean there's no defending it. We should be loaded by now when you figure in great FA signings ala Incognito and Darrian Stewart, and good drafting.

[COLTS449]

Ok here's one.

 

Nick Perry

Brandon Williams

Trumaine Johnson

TJ Lang

 

Other signings/trades for dirt cheap.

Josh Gordon

Armonty Bryant

 

 

Gordon is a top 3 WR if he's on the field, and if/when he's reinstated we need to make him a Colt by any means necessary. Bryant is a super talented EDGE rusher who's also had off field issues, but has proven when he plays he can get after QB's. He had 5.5 sacks, 2FF's, and 4stuffs year before last in just a handful of games and had 3 in.... 5.....FIVE games this year. All this primarily as a backup. If he can stay on the field he can be a breakout player next year. He's got a lot of talent and can be had dirt cheap. He could be a brilliant signing. Think about a pass rush of Nick Perry, Tim Williams, Carl Lawson, and Armonty Bryant. That would be one heck of a rotation as I see Williams as an elite talent and Lawson as a guy who can develop into a game wrecking, 10-12 sack guy. A better version of Dee Ford unless Ford's success was legit this year, but I still expect Lawson to have a much bigger impact in his first 2 seasons than Ford had. Even if its just as a pure pass rusher. That's what we need. Pure, Speed rushers who can change the course of the game.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

On 2/5/2017 at 4:59 PM, Green_Ranger said:

Exactly. I'm not saying break the bank on two guys, but go out and fill a lot of these holes with guys who can come in and help this team become better.

 

If we went out and signed 1-2 difference makers.. I would be all for it.

Exactly!  Indy needs to spend some cash this off season and hopefully they look at a couple of defensive players that are going into their second contract...paying them in their prime.  No overpaying for big names that have lost their luster.

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 2/4/2017 at 9:24 PM, Green_Ranger said:

Okay, here me out.

 

For some reason, Chris Ballard seems to be leaning towards the direction of building through the draft. That's fine and all, but with the amount of talent this team lacks at the moment and with Andrew Luck entering his sixth NFL season and doesn't even have a SB appearance yet, doesn't anyone else feel like we need to build this franchise back to a SB caliber team while Luck is still relatively young?

 

Building through the draft is something that we should of did 3-4 years ago, but now I think it's time to get aggressive and if we need to go out and a spend a little money to get someone right now, let's do it.

 

Our QB is locked up for another half a decade and the salary cap will continue to rise.. so why sit around and depend on the draft? Those players are hit or miss anyways.. I hope Ballard ends up spending some cash this off-season on guys who haven't previously played in Indianapolis.

i concur

[Bluefire4]

2 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

 

I have a lot of respect for you as a poster @Bluefire4, but that's just laughable. You think Grigson went after big time play makers and they just chose not to play here........With Andrew Luck. You think if we had offered say Malik Jackson and Pernell McPhee they wouldn't have signed here instead of the Jags and Bears?? Come on bro. Or Rodney Hudson, Dan Williams, and etc before the Raiders became a good team again. If we had targeted big time players we would have landed a few. I mean come on. At least 1!!!! LOL. Its about the money and a little about the team. Players would love to play with Luck. You think Brandon Marshall wouldn't have wanted to play with Luck? We could sign him this offseason after he's cut. He can still ball. I think we actually need a WR. Dorsett isn't looking good. So ask Al Jeffery if he wouldn't want to play with Andrew Luck. LOL....LOL.....LOL.....He'd say no even though its the same amount of money, or more money, guaranteed and otherwise, I had rather play with a rookie QB in San Fran, a rookie or Tyrod Taylor in Chicago, etc.

 

But with good scouting and a competent GM. Yes we could have built a juggernaut by now. EASILY. Its been 5 years. Seattle did it in 2!!!! Just by hitting on our 1st through 3rd rounders on most years we could have Xavier Rhodes, Brandon Williams, Jason Verrett, Eric Kendricks, Markus Golden, and Danielle Hunter on our defense. I mean there's no defending it. We should be loaded by now when you figure in great FA signings ala Incognito and Darrian Stewart, and good drafting.

Regarding the free agency point, it is more than money and a team when it comes down to players choosing where they want to go. Some may want to take their families somewhere where the weather is nice, the market is bigger, or where there are more things to do in general. We really don't know the reason why we didn't get these players as another poster stated but we can't look at hindsight and say we should have built a juggernaut. Many other teams could say the same if that was the case.

 

It took Peyton Manning 6 or 7 years to win a playoff game. Nobody has a perfect team. Not defending Grigson because it was time for him to go but don't expect Ballard to be perfect.

[COLTS449]

2 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

Regarding the free agency point, it is more than money and a team when it comes down to players choosing where they want to go. Some may want to take their families somewhere where the weather is nice, the market is bigger, or where there are more things to do in general. We really don't know the reason why we didn't get these players as another poster stated but we can't look at hindsight and say we should have built a juggernaut. Many other teams could say the same if that was the case.

 

It took Peyton Manning 6 or 7 years to win a playoff game. Nobody has a perfect team. Not defending Grigson because it was time for him to go but don't expect Ballard to be perfect.

 

See I think we've been wasting away Lucks early years by not surrounding him with talent. That worries me. Wilson has been surrounded with talent in Seattle and won in what? 3rd season?

[Bluefire4]

Just now, COLTS449 said:

 

See I think we've been wasting away Lucks early years by not surrounding him with talent. That worries me. Wilson has been surrounded with talent in Seattle and won in what? 3rd season?

Yeah true but they hit in the late rounds and didn't pick up Russ until round 3. Not everyone can be as good at scouting as the Seahawks crew. Hopefully we have the right guy this time around.

 

I get what everyone is saying about wasting Luck's career but I sure didn't expect him to make an AFC championship game in 3 years but maybe thats just because I started with Peyton.

 

Luck is still a young guy and he is locked up. We have time but there obviously should be no more time wasted.

[COLTS449]

4 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

Yeah true but they hit in the late rounds and didn't pick up Russ until round 3. Not everyone can be as good at scouting as the Seahawks crew. Hopefully we have the right guy this time around.

 

I get what everyone is saying about wasting Luck's career but I sure didn't expect him to make an AFC championship game in 3 years but maybe thats just because I started with Peyton.

 

Luck is still a young guy and he is locked up. We have time but there obviously should be no more time wasted.

 

See I was like 8 or 9 or so when Peyton came in. And I didn't really get into football until I was around 12. I was more into basketball and baseball at that time, but I still remember watching sports center and watching highlights of Manning, etc, but he would have been in his what, 3rd or 4th year when I started really getting into football.