Key plays involving Allen

[Dr. T]

After Allen's 3 TD performance on MNF, he disappoints once again. Tripping over his own feet resulted in the first INT. Then he is asked to block Clowney one-on-one (STUPID) which causes a strip sack in the red zone. Then he has a chance to recover the fumble, but instead of falling on it, he tries to pick it up! I really don't know what else to say ...

[deedub75]

That 3 TD performance was an outlier and not the norm for him. 

[Mr.Debonair]

14 minutes ago, Dr. T said:

After Allen's 3 TD performance on MNF, he disappoints once again. Tripping over his own feet resulted in the first INT. Then he is asked to block Clowney one-on-one (STUPID) which causes a strip sack in the red zone. Then he has a chance to recover the fumble, but instead of falling on it, he tries to pick it up! I really don't know what else to say ...

When Luck threw the ball Allen was 2inches from the ground already. I don't like Allen very much but that INT isn't on him. Second, you just said it was dumb to have him block Clowney one-on-one.

[19colt]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

When Luck threw the ball Allen was 2inches from the ground already. I don't like Allen very much but that INT isn't on him. Second, you just said it was dumb to have him block Clowney one-on-one.

 This probably adds to the point some have made that Luck is not very good at "throwing to a spot". Here he did just that when he probably shouldn't have. 

[dw49]

37 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

When Luck threw the ball Allen was 2inches from the ground already. I don't like Allen very much but that INT isn't on him. Second, you just said it was dumb to have him block Clowney one-on-one.

 

 

You don't think Luck let the ball go just before he realized that Allen had tripped ? Wow.. you have a great eye or Luck is really stupid trying to compete a pass to Allen laying on the turf. Really.... 

[Dudley Smith]

41 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

When Luck threw the ball Allen was 2inches from the ground already. I don't like Allen very much but that INT isn't on him. Second, you just said it was dumb to have him block Clowney one-on-one.

 

Even if Allen was in the process of falling as the ball was leaving Luck's hands, I doubt in actual game time Luck can notice this fact as he is winding up and subsequently pull the pass back when he realizes Allen is heading towards the dirt. Luck didn't play well yesterday, but that first INT was not his fault.

[Bravo]

Allen should thank the Jets defense for his 3TD performance. It's not like he ran amazing routes. He had one tough catch.

 

Allen was very below average this year and didn't perform even close to expectations. So far the contract is lolming bad for the Colts.

 

Maybe the Colts should look for a trade involving Allen. Then have Doyle as #1 Swoope #2 and a later draftee/ udfa TE that can block at #3.

 

[shakedownstreet]

what are you wearing today, tierra? i want to... oh wrong forum, sorry..  

[IndyTrav]

Falling down, whatever that sort of stuff happens over the course of a season. Sucks, but in a vaccum, it's whatever. 

 

Sack vs Clowney I have a problem with.  he shouldn't have been put in that situation to begin with. But once he was he HAS to have the football intelligence to know not to let him get past and get Lucks blindside. If he does you hold, trip, grab whatever to slow him or stop him. You take the penalty and move on. But being a 5year vet with no situational awareness is unacceptable at this point 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, IndyTrav said:

Falling down, whatever that sort of stuff happens over the course of a season. Sucks, but in a vaccum, it's whatever. 

 

Sack vs Clowney I have a problem with.  he shouldn't have been put in that situation to begin with. But once he was he HAS to have the football intelligence to know not to let him get past and get Lucks blindside. If he does you hold, trip, grab whatever to slow him or stop him. You take the penalty and move on. But being a 5year vet with no situational awareness is unacceptable at this point 

 

He actually let up to avoid a holding penalty on that play. Should have tackled Clowney if he had to...

[Mr.Debonair]

32 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

You don't think Luck let the ball go just before he realized that Allen had tripped ? Wow.. you have a great eye or Luck is really stupid trying to compete a pass to Allen laying on the turf. Really.... 

They replayed it on Sportscenter multiple times. Maybe you should go look it up

[Flash7]

I re-watched the first INT several times. Allen tripped on the defenders foot. As he was falling down, Luck still had the ball in his hands. Allen fell to the floor and then Luck released the ball. Luck had Turbin wide open in the flat to his left and Jack Doyle wide open in the flat to his right. Instead, Luck had targeted Allen and was going to throw to him no matter what.

[IndyTrav]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He actually let up to avoid a holding penalty on that play. Should have tackled Clowney if he had to...

 

Which to me is part of the greater problem with this team. They THINK what they are doing/supposed to do is correct and stubbornly stick with it, not attempting to correct what they do/did.....how many good punts have we wasted with bad coverage, fair caught at the 2, scheming problems with OL, WR, Rbs, poor play calling on crucial downs, questionable clock management decisions etc etc.....all are fixable mistakes yet continue to happen over and over and over and it's what drives me up a wall.......

[Superman]

Just now, IndyTrav said:

 

Which to me is part of the greater problem with this team. They THINK what they are doing/supposed to do is correct and stubbornly stick with it, not attempting to correct what they do/did.....how many good punts have we wasted with bad coverage, fair caught at the 2, scheming problems with OL, WR, Rbs, poor play calling on crucial downs, questionable clock management decisions etc etc.....all are fixable mistakes yet continue to happen over and over and over and it's what drives me up a wall.......

 

I agree with a lot of this, just don't agree with the ST stuff. Punts bouncing into the end zone is just a bounce of the ball thing. The Colts get their fair share downed inside the 10, I don't think they're doing anything wrong for the most part. The one yesterday was just the ball being hit directly into a teammate. 

 

And the deep fair catches haven't been a problem, just a couple earlier this year with an inexperienced returned. For the most part, that's not an issue for the Colts.

 

The scheming/play calling on offense, I've been complaining about that for a long time. Pagano's clock management isn't awful, but there are a handful of situations where his decisions don't make sense, and we're in Year 5 now so I don't see them getting better. Especially the spur of the moment decisions. He has gotten better on 4th down decisions, and shown aggressiveness in other ways, but a lot of that is premeditated. It's the 'live bullets' stuff -- like when to take a timeout at the end of the Detroit game -- that I'm not confident he'll ever improve on.

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Allen tripped on the defenders foot

 

I would have bet $100 that Allen tripped on that play, but haven't gone back to watch it yet...

[Smoke317]

Hopefully that Jets game was enough to entice a team into taking Allen in a draft day trade...  He's the stiffest tight end I've ever seen. No fluidity to his game whatsoever. Even those first two EASY TD's in the Jets game looked like he fought those passes all the way into his hands.  He's just not a natural "receiver", which makes him a liability when it truly matters... I've seen enough. Time to get what we can for him and move on. 

[AZColt11]

Sadly I think Allen has regressed.  I think he was better his rookie year.  Some guys get paid and use it as motivation to improve and others think they have "arrived" and the work is over.

[NewColtsFan]

8 hours ago, Flash7 said:

I re-watched the first INT several times. Allen tripped on the defenders foot. As he was falling down, Luck still had the ball in his hands. Allen fell to the floor and then Luck released the ball. Luck had Turbin wide open in the flat to his left and Jack Doyle wide open in the flat to his right. Instead, Luck had targeted Allen and was going to throw to him no matter what.

 

I'm not sure you realize this,  but here's what your argument amounts to......

 

Allen fell down....   Luck saw this...

 

Luck knew he had open receivers elsewhere,  and yet he threw the ball directly to the Texans defender.

 

That's your argument.     That Luck deliberately threw an interception.    

 

Would you like to try and re-phrase that a bit?     Pick some new words....     add a few new ones,  subtract some poorly chosen ones.....       re-think this idea.....

 

Because otherwise,   Dear God.......       

[NewColtsFan]

55 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

Sadly I think Allen has regressed.  I think he was better his rookie year.  Some guys get paid and use it as motivation to improve and others think they have "arrived" and the work is over.

 

So, a guy you've never met and your ready to say that he's just going through the motions,  stealing the Colts money and not putting out.

 

It can't be that,  you know,  he's been hurt most years and that he's had some unfortunate things happen to him.

 

No.

 

It has to be he lacks motivation and has decided not to work.       THAT'S your viewpoint?

 

I wouldn't want my name attached to that kind of post......     but, hey,  whatever works for you.....

 

 

[AZColt11]

47 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

So, a guy you've never met and your ready to say that he's just going through the motions,  stealing the Colts money and not putting out.

 

It can't be that,  you know,  he's been hurt most years and that he's had some unfortunate things happen to him.

 

No.

 

It has to be he lacks motivation and has decided not to work.       THAT'S your viewpoint?

 

I wouldn't want my name attached to that kind of post......     but, hey,  whatever works for you.....

 

 

I didn't exactly say it that way, but I DO feel he isn't as good as he showed his rookie year.  He was blocking WAY better than he is now, he was catching balls, and he looked to be running good routes.  Other than the Jets game, I don't see any evidence of that.  If it's injuries, if it's motivation, if he got paid and is happy, whatever the case may be, IMHO he is not as good as he was.  Period.  And I am more than fine attaching my name to that.

 

The problem with this regime is it has been unwilling to go "there" with this personnel. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, AZColt11 said:

I didn't exactly say it that way, but I DO feel he isn't as good as he showed his rookie year.  He was blocking WAY better than he is now, he was catching balls, and he looked to be running good routes.  Other than the Jets game, I don't see any evidence of that.  If it's injuries, if it's motivation, if he got paid and is happy, whatever the case may be, IMHO he is not as good as he was.  Period.  And I am more than fine attaching my name to that.

 

The problem with this regime is it has been unwilling to go "there" with this personnel. 

 

I agree.      Allen is not as good now as he has been in the past.     We agree.

 

I just don't want to call a player --- who by all the accounts I've seen is a really, really good guy --- I don't want to call that guy a dog.       I don't want to say he's gone soft simply because he got a new contract with lots of guaranteed money.     There's nothing in his story that I'm aware of that would even hint that Allen is the kind of guy who would get his money and then not care about how he performs or how his team does.

 

Just because a guy hasn't played well for a long stretch,  doesn't mean it's deliberate.     It's the NFL, and bad stuff happens all the time to every team.

 

[AZColt11]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I agree.      Allen is not as good now as he has been in the past.     We agree.

 

I just don't want to call a player --- who by all the accounts I've seen is a really, really good guy --- I don't want to call that guy a dog.       I don't want to say he's gone soft simply because he got a new contract with lots of guaranteed money.     There's nothing in his story that I'm aware of that would even hint that Allen is the kind of guy who would get his money and then not care about how he performs or how his team does.

 

Just because a guy hasn't played well for a long stretch,  doesn't mean it's deliberate.     It's the NFL, and bad stuff happens all the time to every team.

 

I get it.  Just speculating on what might be occurring.  No inside knowledge or what have you.  I do find it odd though that he appears to be regressing.  I sincerely HOPE it's just injuries though because i like Allen too. 

[Flash7]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm not sure you realize this,  but here's what your argument amounts to......

 

Allen fell down....   Luck saw this...

 

Luck knew he had open receivers elsewhere,  and yet he threw the ball directly to the Texans defender.

 

That's your argument.     That Luck deliberately threw an interception.    

 

Would you like to try and re-phrase that a bit?     Pick some new words....     add a few new ones,  subtract some poorly chosen ones.....       re-think this idea.....

 

Because otherwise,   Dear God.......       

Hey NCF, it's been a while.

 

Respectfully, without being argumentative, allow me to restate my points.

 

First, please note that I stand firmly behind everything that I wrote.

 

I stated that Allen tripped over the defender's foot and fell down. This is a fact. I also stated that Luck had not thrown the ball until Allen was on the turf. This too, is a fact. Luck released the ball after Allen had fallen.

 

Where I may have been unclear is that he had both Turbin and Doyle wide open but he did not see them because Luck was lazered in on Allen. He never looked to see who else was open. As I had stated, Luck had targeted Allen and was going to throw to him regardless. 

 

I never stated that Luck deliberately threw an INT, nor did I assert that. 

 

At first, I thought it was an innocent play where Luck threw the ball to a player that fell, which resulted in an INT, however, I knew something was off. After re-watching the play several times, I'm actually left with more questions than answers.

 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016121104

 

Here is a link to the highlights. Pause at the 50 second mark to see the play.

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Hey NCF, it's been a while.

 

Respectfully, without being argumentative, allow me to restate my points.

 

First, please note that I stand firmly behind everything that I wrote.

 

I stated that Allen tripped over the defender's foot and fell down. This is a fact. I also stated that Luck had not thrown the ball until Allen was on the turf. This too, is a fact. Luck released the ball after Allen had fallen.

 

Where I may have been unclear is that he had both Turbin and Doyle wide open but he did not see them because Luck was lazered in on Allen. He never looked to see who else was open. As I had stated, Luck had targeted Allen and was going to throw to him regardless. 

 

I never stated that Luck deliberately threw an INT, nor did I assert that. 

 

At first, I thought it was an innocent play where Luck threw the ball to a player that fell, which resulted in an INT, however, I knew something was off. After re-watching the play several times, I'm actually left with more questions than answers.

 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016121104

 

Here is a link to the highlights. Pause at the 50 second mark to see the play.

 

You're treating the play like it's the Zapruder film.       This is all very split second,  bang-bang stuff.

 

A decision is made and Allen falls down at almost the same moment.

 

This stuff happens all the time in the NFL.   

 

Whenever a QB,  any QB throws an interception and it goes right to the defender, and fans wonder what happened.       The receiver fell,  or ran the wrong route and the QB threw the ball where he expected the receiver to be.      Happens all the time.

 

The interception is not on Luck.    Or Allen for that matter.     This is just football.     Stuff happens and it did right there.      Sucks for us,  but what can you do?       Luck saw Allen open and threw the pass expecting him to be there.

 

I'd only put one of Luck's three turnovers on him.     The middle one where he's scrambling for days and gets hit from behind.      At some point,  he should've just kept it and ran with it.      Live to fight another down.

 

The strip-sack was on bad blocking.

 

1 out of 3 for Luck on turnovers.      Your mileage may vary.....