TJ Green/Blythe

[AZColt11]

I just think it's too early to tell.  NONE of us has even seen him on an NFL field yet.  Maybe you are right, maybe he's a bust.  But let's give the man a CHANCE first before we run him out of town.  Agreed?

[TheRustonRifle#7]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think that's a little premature at this point to assume that.

 

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think that's a little premature at this point to assume that.

 

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think that's a little premature at this point to assume that.

Sorry had to quote it three times...let him strap on a helmet before declaring him a waste of a pick...lol!

[Carlos Danger]

I think that Green's shortcomings are being overblown, here. His lack of experience on defense definitely hurt him in coverage last season, but he was almost exclusively near the line of scrimmage, where he mostly feasted on RBs. 

 

He didn't have a bad year. He made a ton of plays. He gave up some big plays in the passing game and had moments where he didn't know who to cover. He had trouble adjusting when the ball was in the air, but that was to be expected. Geathers had moments like that last season in a simplified role (He also got slammed in PFF's grades, if I recall correctly, but I don't hear many complaints about him on here).

 

Green is a raw, but he's got blinding speed. He is a fearless tackler. He will most likely have an immediate impact on ST. He was drafted to the right place (Pagano is excellent at coaching up secondaries). He doesn't have to start immediately. I think he's useful at his floor and can become special if he gets close to his ceiling.

 

I would think differently if I didn't think he could be taught to cover. However, it's not like he's a rugby player or a guy who was going to go undrafted. He's just a former WR. He hasn't ever been asked to consistently cover consistently. Normally when a guy converts to defense from WR, it's physicality and agression that they lack... with Green, that's not an issue. The biggest challenge is going to be making sure he knows where to be on each play... not a giant risk, in my view. 

 

 

[Two_pound]

I like the Green pick, let's see what he can do when live action starts in August. And I really think Blythe is going to start RG this season

[Stillen]

"However, he does not possess the natural coverage instincts, fluidity or burst to be considered a future starter. Is comfortable and capable in press man, using his size to disrupt receivers' releases off the line, but doesn't show enough make up speed to consistently recover when beaten. Awareness in zone and off-man are only adequate. Has average ball skills but some upside as a playmaker." 

 

"Pros: Possesses rare height for a corner with enough bulk and speed. Effective when lined up at the line in press man coverage. Uses length well and established sound initial positioning. Flashes the ability to turn and run. Flashes the ability to high-point the football. Willing to help out in run support."

 

"Cons:  Can be baited out of position when in zone and a tick late to diagnose underneath routes. Tall, high-cut prospect who displays some hip-stiffness. Not explosive when transitioning or when changing direction. Lacks great recovery skills when beaten off the line. Can struggle tacking in the open field at times."

 

The assessment pre-draft for this player is the player we now know as Richard Sherman. Give it a couple years and lets see what happens. If it doesn't work out, well that sucks, but theres no such thing as a "sure" prospect and you can't blame a GM/HC for drafting a player based on potential.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I love the pick.  Out of the box style from innovators type of stuff.  Tall athletic and fast Tight Ends in a passing league have become the 'mismatch' nightmare.  The Gronk's of the world, and others of his ilk.  We have an aging Mike Adams to cover safety this year along side youngster Clayton Geathers.  So how to best prepare for Adams departure?  Draft a lengthy, tall exceptionally fast  and strong ex wide receiver... and take a defensive back guru to train him into the new type Safety.  TJ is 6 feet 2 inches tall, 210 pounds, and runs a 4.34 in the 40 yard dash.  He has ability to cover in the slot too.  He will be able to be versatile in play options.  He has speed to cover sideline to sideline at safety, length to cover athletic tight ends, and enough cover ability to play a slot receiver.  He can come up and stuff the run. The guy's ceiling is in the stratosphere.  But it will be up to Pagano and the defensive coaches to train and program him to execute.  Chuck and TJ really hit it off at Greens Pro day, so I'm sure TJ will buy in 'fully' to Pagano's teaching and direction.

 

Very few draft picks are finished products (Joey Bosa aside) and need development, but some are suited for a different position and need even further grooming.  Thankfully Clemson saw that and began the Safety project early, at least as far as the Colts are concerned.  And the kid still had 130 tackles (102 solo) with 3 other Clemson Tigers tream mates coming off the draft board in first 2 rounds. So I anticipate watching this kid mature into what could be a major impact player nullifying the huge mismatch opportunities the new NFL tight end (stolen away from basketball) has recently created.

 

Not every pick is about what will it do for me this year.  Not only are they preparing for M. Adams void, but with a huge vision and strategy as well.    And truthfully, I think it was only a matter of a few more picks before some other GM/team got the same idea and would strip him off the board.  I hope to see him in getting some reps more and more as he learns and the season progresses.

[jim scheurich]

19 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Geathers played snaps at safety last year so why wouldnt Green get snaps at safety?

He probably will. I'm just not sure why we drafted him. other potential wasted.

[jim scheurich]

3 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I love the pick.  Out of the box style from innovators type of stuff.  Tall athletic and fast Tight Ends in a passing league have become the 'mismatch' nightmare.  The Gronk's of the world, and others of his ilk.  We have an aging Mike Adams to cover safety this year along side youngster Clayton Geathers.  So how to best prepare for Adams departure?  Draft a lengthy, tall exceptionally fast  and strong ex wide receiver... and take a defensive back guru to train him into the new type Safety.  TJ is 6 feet 2 inches tall, 210 pounds, and runs a 4.34 in the 40 yard dash.  He has ability to cover in the slot too.  He will be able to be versatile in play options.  He has speed to cover sideline to sideline at safety, length to cover athletic tight ends, and enough cover ability to play a slot receiver.  He can come up and stuff the run. The guy's ceiling is in the stratosphere.  But it will be up to Pagano and the defensive coaches to train and program him to execute.  Chuck and TJ really hit it off at Greens Pro day, so I'm sure TJ will buy in 'fully' to Pagano's teaching and direction.

 

Very few draft picks are finished products (Joey Bosa aside) and need development, but some are suited for a different position and need even further grooming.  Thankfully Clemson saw that and began the Safety project early, at least as far as the Colts are concerned.  And the kid still had 130 tackles (102 solo) with 3 other Clemson Tigers tream mates coming off the draft board in first 2 rounds. So I anticipate watching this kid mature into what could be a major impact player nullifying the huge mismatch opportunities the new NFL tight end (stolen away from basketball) has recently created.

 

Not every pick is about what will it do for me this year.  Not only are they preparing for M. Adams void, but with a huge vision and strategy as well.    And truthfully, I think it was only a matter of a few more picks before some other GM/team got the same idea and would strip him off the board.  I hope to see him in getting some reps more and more as he learns and the season progresses.

Hopefully he turns out better than what I see around. Some people thought he was projected 7th round or undrafted. I just don't see 2nd round value.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Go on and hate the pick, you won't see value this year.  I'll chat with you next year.

 

The folks hating the Philip Dorsett pick last year?  I'll be chatting with you this year.

 

[crazycolt1]

6 hours ago, jim scheurich said:

Hopefully he turns out better than what I see around. Some people thought he was projected 7th round or undrafted. I just don't see 2nd round value.

He was projected in the 7th round till his combine work. Then he went up on all the teams boards. Not me, you are anyone else knows how any of these players will work out in the end. There are first round picks who will bust of not be as good as advertised just like a 7th rounder or walk on may light it up. It happens every season. IMO it makes no difference as to what round a player is taken if he works hard and makes himself a player that can contribute. Sometimes that 53rd player on a roster can make a play that makes a difference. Players on special teams often get over looked but can make a tackle or force a fumble that can help win a game. I make this comment not as an argumentative statement but just as an observation.

[crazycolt1]

10 hours ago, Carlos Danger said:

I think that Green's shortcomings are being overblown, here. His lack of experience on defense definitely hurt him in coverage last season, but he was almost exclusively near the line of scrimmage, where he mostly feasted on RBs. 

 

He didn't have a bad year. He made a ton of plays. He gave up some big plays in the passing game and had moments where he didn't know who to cover. He had trouble adjusting when the ball was in the air, but that was to be expected. Geathers had moments like that last season in a simplified role (He also got slammed in PFF's grades, if I recall correctly, but I don't hear many complaints about him on here).

 

Green is a raw, but he's got blinding speed. He is a fearless tackler. He will most likely have an immediate impact on ST. He was drafted to the right place (Pagano is excellent at coaching up secondaries). He doesn't have to start immediately. I think he's useful at his floor and can become special if he gets close to his ceiling.

 

I would think differently if I didn't think he could be taught to cover. However, it's not like he's a rugby player or a guy who was going to go undrafted. He's just a former WR. He hasn't ever been asked to consistently cover consistently. Normally when a guy converts to defense from WR, it's physicality and agression that they lack... with Green, that's not an issue. The biggest challenge is going to be making sure he knows where to be on each play... not a giant risk, in my view. 

 

 

I have to add to your comment the fact of our coaches getting hands on with him. I think he has a lot of talent and hopefully our coaches can help him tap that talent.

[Goatface Killah]

On 5/6/2016 at 0:32 PM, JohnnyP said:

I never said he was a terrible pick.  ...just expressing concern from what i saw.  Having a couple of bad games happens. ...but when you look at a player that looks like he's completely lost out there, it doesn't instill much confidence he's going to be a good contributor to this team.  ....great players don't look as consistently bad as he does on tape.

 

If you don't think it's a terrible pick, why are you picking it apart? 

 

You could say what you are saying about every single pick outside of the top ten. Most players have a couple bad tapes. It wasn't like he was playing Western Kentucky.

 

He has some tremendous size and speed, he brings something to the secondary that we lack. I think it was a good pick. 

[Jdubu]

I look at the draft differently than most. If a guy makes the team and becomes productive, who cares which round he came in. Green was a pick that we traded down and acquired more picks for. Many people were a second round pick up to a low first on the guy based on his potential so I don't have any issue with choosing him, it's a need position and with coaching, he may turn out fine, he may not. Nobody is guaranteed. 

 

So so let's say a UDFA and a lower round guy pick sticks and Green never matures, we are still ahead of the game. It's really all about quality on the team and if you honestly expect to hit on every pick, your always going to be disappointed. All these people on this site clammoring for Billings in the 1st round, where did he go? We just do t get all the same info the experts making these picks do. Trust the judgement until proven otherwise. They admitted the 2013 draft mistakes and moved on. We got some good players in all the other drafts so far. 

[Defjamz26]

On May 6, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Valpo2004 said:

 

To be fair the OP also watched a game against Louisville which is not near the competition level of 'bama.  I could go with you that 'Bama tends to make everyone look bad.  But not Louisville.  

 

I don't like this pick.  He's athletic but there is no evidence that he can actually play the position. 

No evidence he can play the position? Based on what? Some bad tape? You make it sound like he's Tim Tebow at safety.

 

Saying there's no evidence he can play safety at a high level is a dangerous statement if you don't have substantial evidence to back that claim.

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 5/6/2016 at 11:57 AM, Valpo2004 said:

 

To be fair the OP also watched a game against Louisville which is not near the competition level of 'bama.  I could go with you that 'Bama tends to make everyone look bad.  But not Louisville.  

 

I don't like this pick.  He's athletic but there is no evidence that he can actually play the position. 

 

To be fair, the Colts have regional scouts thast watched more games then Alabama and Louisville.  and they know what to look for in a player, not just results of a play.  Chuck and Ryan went to the combine-

 

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/2016-Combine-workout-TJ-Green/383f5b6b-6b1c-4e68-b663-4c7ce058f341

 

Pagano (along with Rex Ryan, Marvin Lewis, and Mike Tomlin) was a head coach that went to Clemson pro day.  TJ and Chuck really hit it off, and Chuck got an even more close up look at the the player and his skills.  (I'm sure due diligence was paid to M Alexandr, Lawson, etc... too)

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000644017/article/four-nfl-head-coaches-attend-clemsons-pro-day

 

And for those that said he was a 7th rounder or undrafted, 4.34 speed will get you taken off the draft board quite early, no matter how raw a player is at playing a position.  Very few players expected to be undrafted get a combine invite. TJ had the 4th fastest 40 at the combine.  I'd like to see someone post name(s) of an NFL player selected in round 7 that had ran a 4.3x in the 40 and was athletic in other measurables as well.

[CR91]

interesting 

 

Do you think this was a good pick by the Colts (in terms of player and draft position)?

I think the pick is a good one, I think the position Green was taken was terrible. This seems to be a classic example of reaching for a player based on his physical attributes and not what he shows on tape. Everyone at STS thought Green should stay in school for another year and that he was a mid-round player at best right now. Instead agents got in his head and he left early. I'm glad he got picked so early because it gives him a better opportunity, but it wasn't a smart decision by the Colts.

[stitches]

I just watched the press-conference after the draft, Grigson mentioned TJ Green had a really high Wonderlic score. My assumption is that they think they can coach him up and he'd be able to pick up stuff quickly.

[jim scheurich]

18 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

He was projected in the 7th round till his combine work. Then he went up on all the teams boards. Not me, you are anyone else knows how any of these players will work out in the end. There are first round picks who will bust of not be as good as advertised just like a 7th rounder or walk on may light it up. It happens every season. IMO it makes no difference as to what round a player is taken if he works hard and makes himself a player that can contribute. Sometimes that 53rd player on a roster can make a play that makes a difference. Players on special teams often get over looked but can make a tackle or force a fumble that can help win a game. I make this comment not as an argumentative statement but just as an observation.

This is true.

[Iancolts]

Well for a 2rd pick I expect him to play backup at the very least at safety.  I expect him to relief Adams or geather.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

11 minutes ago, Iancolts said:

Well for a 2rd pick I expect him to play backup at the very least at safety.  I expect him to relief Adams or geather.  

 

He will, but it will start slowly and get more involved as the season progresses and he learns the system and gets comfortable in live action.  He is projected to be our starting safety in the near future. We need to keep him healthy as he learns.  I don't want another D'Joun Smith scenario.

[JohnnyP]

On May 8, 2016 at 5:20 AM, GoatBeard said:

 

If you don't think it's a terrible pick, why are you picking it apart? 

 

You could say what you are saying about every single pick outside of the top ten. Most players have a couple bad tapes. It wasn't like he was playing Western Kentucky.

 

He has some tremendous size and speed, he brings something to the secondary that we lack. I think it was a good pick. 

It's simple...I'm picking apart the pick in order to support my lack of confidence in it being a good pick. 

Considering the talent still on the board, I don't like the idea of drafting a guy that's essentially a project....not in Rd 2.  A 40 time is a terrible thing to fall in love with.  It's never been a good gauge for finding good football players.

Again, I never said it was a terrible pick.  That would be a bit arrogant on my part considering he hasn't played a single down yet.  ...but to be fair, I do have an opinion about the pick....and if I'm going to give my opinion, I feel it's necessary to support my opinion with some evidence.  I don't feel comfortable saying "I think it's a good pick" based on him having "tremendous size and speed".  

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, JohnnyP said:

It's simple...I'm picking apart the pick in order to support my lack of confidence in it being a good pick. 

Considering the talent still on the board, I don't like the idea of drafting a guy that's essentially a project....not in Rd 2.  A 40 time is a terrible thing to fall in love with.  It's never been a good gauge for finding good football players.

Again, I never said it was a terrible pick.  That would be a bit arrogant on my part considering he hasn't played a single down yet.  ...but to be fair, I do have an opinion about the pick....and if I'm going to give my opinion, I feel it's necessary to support my opinion with some evidence.  I don't feel comfortable saying "I think it's a good pick" based on him having "tremendous size and speed".  

It is way too premature to judge the talent level of any draft pick at this point. Just like us, all it is your opinion. Every season we see first round picks who bust or underachieve and later round picks play very well. We have a few walk on players who went undrafted make teams. The Colts have a little of all of these scenarios in their history.

[JohnnyP]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

It is way too premature to judge the talent level of any draft pick at this point. Just like us, all it is your opinion. Every season we see first round picks who bust or underachieve and later round picks play very well. We have a few walk on players who went undrafted make teams. The Colts have a little of all of these scenarios in their history.

Agreed. ...that's exactly my point, I'm simply supporting my opinion ....i'm not presenting my opinion as fact. ...TJ Green may end up having a HOF career.  ....i certainly don't know how good or bad he'll be.  ...but just sharing my opinion.  ....not sure why people are misreading my original post.  I've simply stated why i have concerns about drafting him in RD2.  ,,,it isn't anymore complicated than that.