Manning Contract And Cap Impacts For Cutting/trading

[Larry Horseman]

Thought this would be worthy of a new thread. Below are all the options and cap ramifications for cutting or trading PM. Keep in mind the dead cap can be spread over all years remaining on contract. (link: http://www.coltsauth...or-the-cap.html).

Cut or Trade Peyton before March 8th: 16mil of dead cap

Cut or Trade Peyton after March 8th: 44mil of dead cap

Cut or Trade Peyton after 2012: 33mil of dead cap

Cut or Trade Peyton after 2013: 22mil of dead cap

Cut or Trade Peyton after 2014: 11mil of dead cap

After 2015: Peyton's contract expires

The safest option is parting ways before March (say it ain't so), after that it gets pretty hairy. Tough, franchise impacting decision. Going to be an interesting period in Colts land if PM doesn't retire...

[doogansquest]

It's simple: he isn't going anywhere, because 100% of every report from everyone involved or knowledgeable on the situation has said he will be ready. Irsay won't let him go (unless he retires), and if Peyton can play, he will. He doesn't owe anything to anyone to stand aside for a college kid.

What impact does that have on the cap? :-)

[oldunclemark]

Thought this would be worthy of a new thread. Below are all the options and cap ramifications for cutting or trading PM. Keep in mind the dead cap can be spread over all years remaining on contract. (link: http://www.coltsauth...or-the-cap.html).

Cut or Trade Peyton before March 8th: 16mil of dead cap

Cut or Trade Peyton after March 8th: 44mil of dead cap

Cut or Trade Peyton after 2012: 33mil of dead cap

Cut or Trade Peyton after 2013: 22mil of dead cap

Cut or Trade Peyton after 2014: 11mil of dead cap

After 2015: Peyton's contract expires

The safest option is parting ways before March (say it ain't so), after that it gets pretty hairy. Tough, franchise impacting decision. Going to be an interesting period in Colts land if PM doesn't retire...

Do I understand this correctly?

The 'dead cap' hit could be renegotiated and shifted so the $11,000,000 'hit' is NOW

and the $28,000,000 hit is 2014 or 2015?

Wouldnt that allow us to sign Reggie Wayne and, Robert Mathis for two years?

In 2 years..Reggie and Saturday retire, Freeney's money is of the books and the money is there..

Right?

[FireJimCaldwell]

If the cap hit occurs now, and I would argue they have some incorrect information, it would be a 10.6 million cap hit, with nothing in the future because the option bonus would not be picked up.

Any cap hit in the future would be based on picking up the 28 million option bonus.

[presto123]

But I really think Irsay is going to take a QB. He just tweeted recently .......Colts fans I won't let you down just like I didn't in 98.........or something like that. That tells me he's going to take a QB. I think he realizes he absolutely can't pass on Luck.

[LUVTHESHOE]

It's simple: he isn't going anywhere, because 100% of every report from everyone involved or knowledgeable on the situation has said he will be ready. Irsay won't let him go (unless he retires), and if Peyton can play, he will. He doesn't owe anything to anyone to stand aside for a college kid.

What impact does that have on the cap? :-)

I agree, but what if he asks for a fresh start somewhere. From what Peyton has said he really likes Luck and has said the kid needs to play,what then?

[WSO]

That first 16mill figure seems high

[FireJimCaldwell]

That first 16mill figure seems high

It is...

[Larry Horseman]

That first 16mill figure seems high

It's not. He received a $20 million signing bonus in August and a $3 million roster bonus in September. That's $23 million. The Colts claimed $7 million of that on the 2011 cap, leaving $16 million to be spread over the life of the contract ($4 million/year you would assume). If Manning is cut, the Colts would have to eat all $16 million of that in 2012.

I think he will and want him to be back and play with the Colts in 2012 and beyond, btw.

[Susie Q]

But I really think Irsay is going to take a QB. He just tweeted recently .......Colts fans I won't let you down just like I didn't in 98.........or something like that. That tells me he's going to take a QB. I think he realizes he absolutely can't pass on Luck.

Yes he said he would take a QB but didn't he also say many times if Peyton is healthy he would play? They will probably keep Peyton if he is healthy and still take a QB. JMO of course but that has been my take all along. If the new GM has different ideas Irsay will still have the final say on the matter. I personally don't see Irsay trade or release Peyton if he is healthy and can play. I guess time will tell. He has also stated that the organization can afford both QB's and since he knows the cap situation I would think he knows more about this subject than most of the fans and media. Ought to be interesting to actually what happens.

[ruf]

I have had this thought. I would not like for this to happen because I want to keep PM and trade 1st pick, but anyhow here is my thought?

trade the 1st pick to the browns (of course this can only work if the trade is with the browns) for their two #1's and what ever else we could get from them

then with the browns 1st pick at # 4 take RGIII QB now here is where it gets interesting--then trade PM for what he would be worth (if healthy)

what i'm thinking is that we would get a good qb (not goat or pontential goat) but good and think of all the early picks we could have for this year and next in the draft to fill in the holds at OL & DL & CB/S

I'm thinking we could have 3 1st round picks this year and including our own pick we could have 3 first round picks next year and maybe even a 2nd rd pick this year and next.

well what do you think of this possibility???

[FireJimCaldwell]

It's not. He received a $20 million signing bonus in August and a $3 million roster bonus in September. That's $23 million. The Colts claimed $7 million of that on the 2011 cap, leaving $16 million to be spread over the life of the contract ($4 million/year you would assume). If Manning is cut, the Colts would have to eat all $16 million of that in 2012.

I think he will and want him to be back and play with the Colts in 2012 and beyond, btw.

Actually it is... We are carrying a credit of the option bonus (28million/5) 5.6 per year in the 2011 salary cap. If the option bonus isn't picked up, that 5.6 then becomes a credit against the 16 million. Thus 16 million -5.6 credit = 10.4.

[oldunclemark]

I have had this thought. I would not like for this to happen because I want to keep PM and trade 1st pick, but anyhow here is my thought?

trade the 1st pick to the browns (of course this can only work if the trade is with the browns) for their two #1's and what ever else we could get from them

then with the browns 1st pick at # 4 take RGIII QB now here is where it gets interesting--then trade PM for what he would be worth (if healthy)

what i'm thinking is that we would get a good qb (not goat or pontential goat) but good and think of all the early picks we could have for this year and next in the draft to fill in the holds at OL & DL & CB/S

I'm thinking we could have 3 1st round picks this year and including our own pick we could have 3 first round picks next year and maybe even a 2nd rd pick this year and next.

well what do you think of this possibility???

Doesn't that leave us with Danny Orlovsky as our starting QB next season?

[FireJimCaldwell]

I have had this thought. I would not like for this to happen because I want to keep PM and trade 1st pick, but anyhow here is my thought?

trade the 1st pick to the browns (of course this can only work if the trade is with the browns) for their two #1's and what ever else we could get from them

then with the browns 1st pick at # 4 take RGIII QB now here is where it gets interesting--then trade PM for what he would be worth (if healthy)

what i'm thinking is that we would get a good qb (not goat or pontential goat) but good and think of all the early picks we could have for this year and next in the draft to fill in the holds at OL & DL & CB/S

I'm thinking we could have 3 1st round picks this year and including our own pick we could have 3 first round picks next year and maybe even a 2nd rd pick this year and next.

well what do you think of this possibility???

To Quote Dean Wormer.. 0.0% Peyton Manning will not be traded.

[Smonroe]

It's simple: he isn't going anywhere, because 100% of every report from everyone involved or knowledgeable on the situation has said he will be ready. Irsay won't let him go (unless he retires), and if Peyton can play, he will. He doesn't owe anything to anyone to stand aside for a college kid.

What impact does that have on the cap? :-)

I agree, he's staying and we're taking Luck. But then a few guys (maybe including Peyton, for sure Freeney) are going to have to restructure.

[Smonroe]

To Quote Dean Wormer.. 0.0% Peyton Manning will not be traded.

Love it! Zero... point...Zero...

[Larry Horseman]

Actually it is... We are carrying a credit of the option bonus (28million/5) 5.6 per year in the 2011 salary cap. If the option bonus isn't picked up, that 5.6 then becomes a credit against the 16 million. Thus 16 million -5.6 credit = 10.4.

You are correct...edited what I had originally written in this post after thinking through numbers again...thanks for the info.

$16 million 2011 cap hit = $3.4 million 2011 base salary + $7 million towards signing/2011 roster bonus + $5.6 million towards option bonus.

Guess you can't believe everything you read on the internet!

[FireJimCaldwell]

So you are saying we took a $5.6 million hit on the cap in 2011 toward the option bonus, or what exactly does the credit you are referring to mean?

His base 2011 salary was $3.4 million + $3 million signing bonus + $7 million towards the $20 million signing bonus = a cap hit of around $16 million, which is what my understanding of his 2011 cap hit was. How does this create a $5.6 million credit towards the option bonus of $28 million that will be picked up in March?

Your example is using the 3million roster bonus twice.

2011

Signing bonus 20/5 = 4 million

Base salary= 3.4 million

Roster Bonus = 3 million

Total of 10.4 million.

Since the Option Bonus is due in the 2011 league year(at the end of it) it is applied to the 2011 cap. 28/5= 5.6 per year.

10.4 from above

5.6 option bonus credit

16 million cap hit.

If the option bonus is not paid, thus making him a free agent, as you mentioned the remaining 16 million accelerates into the 2012 cap. Since the option bonus isn't paid, the 5.6 credited in 2011, also reverts back to 2012 since it didn't occur, we recover the 5.6 used in 2011.

16 million - 5.6 = 10.4 actual cap hit, or a cap savings of 17-10.4 6.6 million.

[Larry Horseman]

Your example is using the 3million roster bonus twice.

2011

Signing bonus 20/5 = 4 million

Base salary= 3.4 million

Roster Bonus = 3 million

Total of 10.4 million.

Since the Option Bonus is due in the 2011 league year(at the end of it) it is applied to the 2011 cap. 28/5= 5.6 per year.

10.4 from above

5.6 option bonus credit

16 million cap hit.

If the option bonus is not paid, thus making him a free agent, as you mentioned the remaining 16 million accelerates into the 2012 cap. Since the option bonus isn't paid, the 5.6 credited in 2011, also reverts back to 2012 since it didn't occur, we recover the 5.6 used in 2011.

16 million - 5.6 = 10.4 actual cap hit, or a cap savings of 17-10.4 6.6 million.

Realized that after I posted it...edited it, but you obviously saw it before I was finished editing. Good clarification. Sarcasm who used to or still may post here has a good post in the comments section of the article and argues that all the #'s are too high, but not that far off. Still has major cap implications.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Realized that after I posted it...edited it, but you obviously saw it before I was finished editing. Good clarification. Sarcasm who used to or still may post here has a good post in the comments section of the article and argues that all the #'s are too high, but not that far off. Still has major cap implications.

Sarcasm is my brother and no he doesn't post here any more, so I do get some information from him and run stuff by him as well. He posts at another Colts forum. I don't post there, and he doesn't post here, since it would look like we have two accounts...

[Larry Horseman]

Sarcasm is my brother and no he doesn't post here any more, so I do get some information from him and run stuff by him as well. He posts at another Colts forum. I don't post there, and he doesn't post here, since it would look like we have two accounts...

No doubt. Looks like he's done a lot of work figuring out Manning's contract. I peaked at the links he provided. They broke things out nicely and were probably fairly time consuming!

[FireJimCaldwell]

No doubt. Looks like he's done a lot of work figuring out Manning's contract. I peaked at the links he provided. They broke things out nicely and were probably fairly time consuming!

He's a dork about stuff like that. Of course I am too and a lot of us are and others are interested in stuff like that.

[lance.acres]

I have had this thought. I would not like for this to happen because I want to keep PM and trade 1st pick, but anyhow here is my thought?

trade the 1st pick to the browns (of course this can only work if the trade is with the browns) for their two #1's and what ever else we could get from them

then with the browns 1st pick at # 4 take RGIII QB now here is where it gets interesting--then trade PM for what he would be worth (if healthy)

what i'm thinking is that we would get a good qb (not goat or pontential goat) but good and think of all the early picks we could have for this year and next in the draft to fill in the holds at OL & DL & CB/S

I'm thinking we could have 3 1st round picks this year and including our own pick we could have 3 first round picks next year and maybe even a 2nd rd pick this year and next.

well what do you think of this possibility???

I am confused by this post. You started off by saying you want to keep Manning and trade the pick. But then said after we trade down that you would trade Manning? And for a lesser QB than Luck? Or am I just looking at it wrong?

[Jim16]

For those old enough to remember it was a sad day when Johnny Unitas was traded to the Chargers in 73. Peyton is todays Johnny U & I for one do not want to see him play for anyone else. Re the Cap I'm sure Irsay was well aware of any consequences before the start of this past season. JMHO you take Luck and you make it work.

[Bleedin Blue]

I have had this thought. I would not like for this to happen because I want to keep PM and trade 1st pick, but anyhow here is my thought?

trade the 1st pick to the browns (of course this can only work if the trade is with the browns) for their two #1's and what ever else we could get from them

then with the browns 1st pick at # 4 take RGIII QB now here is where it gets interesting--then trade PM for what he would be worth (if healthy)

what i'm thinking is that we would get a good qb (not goat or pontential goat) but good and think of all the early picks we could have for this year and next in the draft to fill in the holds at OL & DL & CB/S

I'm thinking we could have 3 1st round picks this year and including our own pick we could have 3 first round picks next year and maybe even a 2nd rd pick this year and next.

well what do you think of this possibility???

This strategy makes no sense to me and assumes all kinds of risk that is unnecessary. First off, if you trade down to get Cleveland's #4 and #22 picks. You can bet that as much as St. Louis really wants to take Kalil or Blackmon that both they and Minnesota would be open to hearing offers from other teams that really want a quarterback like Seattle and Miami. They could trade that pick effectively taking RG-III off the board. Now as much as I like Ryan Tannehill or Nick Foales I don't want either of them to be our future for the next 10 years based on what I've seen thus far. The #1 pick is very hard to get...you have to suck HARD to get this pick and it usually only happens to franchises every couple of decades.

With this pick we need to take Luck!!

I know that we would forfeit possible trades but how much would we have to give up in the future when we don't have the top pick but need a franchise QB really badly? Would it be 2 first round picks? Three? Two first and a second? The truth is nobody knows and you should factor that in as well as any picks you might be getting in the short term. The net value could be a wash or even worse off by not choosing Luck now. He is the top quarterback in the draft...we need a quarterback because Manning may not even be healthy enough to start next year. I heard a recent interview with John Clayton that not even Peyton or Archie know when he might be able to play again.

Don't punch Lady Luck in the face when she comes to your door (No pun intended)! Invite her in...give her some coffee. Have her sign a contract.

[Tracy Denton]

If the colts did trade the pick and we wound up with 3 first round picks this year, what would that do to the cap ?

[Bleedin Blue]

If the colts did trade the pick and we wound up with 3 first round picks this year, what would that do to the cap ?

Not nearly as much as in the past. Due to the new rookie wage scale the crazy money that went to 1st rounders is no longer available. This makes it much easier to trade picks and move up without the need to justify the cap hit.

The only way to get that would be to trade twice in the first round however as no team has more than 2 picks in the first round. This might be feasible but it's always more risky to do this. Franchise quarterbacks can be found in any round...TB proved that but the odds of hitting on guys after the 1st round is not nearly as high.

[babs4colts]

But I really think Irsay is going to take a QB. He just tweeted recently .......Colts fans I won't let you down just like I didn't in 98.........or something like that. That tells me he's going to take a QB. I think he realizes he absolutely can't pass on Luck.

I agree - I think he will go for a QB - but I think they should consider Griffin rather than Luck.

[jskinnz]

It's simple: he isn't going anywhere, because 100% of every report from everyone involved or knowledgeable on the situation has said he will be ready. Irsay won't let him go (unless he retires), and if Peyton can play, he will. He doesn't owe anything to anyone to stand aside for a college kid.

What impact does that have on the cap? :-)

Would you please link to something from anyone in the know who says he will be ready next year.

[Balzer40]

Would you please link to something from anyone in the know who says he will be ready next year.

Thank you! I keep seeing these posts from him saying all these people in the know say he will be 100% healthy and ready to play. I haven't seen any reports at all from anybody saying any such thing. I've seen a lot of speculative nonsense from a bunch of people that think they know, but thats it. In fact, just from the words Irsay chose to use in his presser(when the Polians were fired) were not all that encouraging TBH. These imaginary reports would be interesting to see.

[GoColts8818]

Thank you! I keep seeing these posts from him saying all these people in the know say he will be 100% healthy and ready to play. I haven't seen any reports at all from anybody saying any such thing. I've seen a lot of speculative nonsense from a bunch of people that think they know, but thats it. In fact, just from the words Irsay chose to use in his presser(when the Polians were fired) were not all that encouraging TBH. These imaginary reports would be interesting to see.

I don't think Doogan was saying it's a 100% lock he'll be healthy. In fact he said "unless he retires". I think what Doogan was saying that the reports coming from people in the know are saying is that if Peyton Manning is healthy next year and can play he'll be a Colt. At least that's how I read it.

[jskinnz]

Thank you! I keep seeing these posts from him saying all these people in the know say he will be 100% healthy and ready to play. I haven't seen any reports at all from anybody saying any such thing. I've seen a lot of speculative nonsense from a bunch of people that think they know, but thats it. In fact, just from the words Irsay chose to use in his presser(when the Polians were fired) were not all that encouraging TBH. These imaginary reports would be interesting to see.

Football in general and the Colts in particular are a unhealthy part of my everyday life so I read stuff all the time - Colts sites, twitter, ESPN, etc - and have seen nothing from anyone who has definitively said he will be ready next year. If I missed something that profound, I would be shocked

[John Dee]

It's simple: he isn't going anywhere, because 100% of every report from everyone involved or knowledgeable on the situation has said he will be ready. Irsay won't let him go (unless he retires), and if Peyton can play, he will. He doesn't owe anything to anyone to stand aside for a college kid.

What impact does that have on the cap? :-)

Ah grasshopper.... you are NOT factoring in the Q.... \

Does Peyton WANT to play for Indy? This contract was structured in a way that really gives "MANNING" leverage. His agent is a 'blue chipper" ... very solid on his part.

Manning will not be back, he will be released. And he will be THE BIGGEST FA TO EVER HIT THE OPEN MARKET.

Indy blew this one, they got snookered.... they can't even get trade value for him.

Either keep him.... which just destroys this team in the now.... Or, release him. Which is what Peyton wants I am sure.

It's not a bad thing, It happened to Montana also.

[John Dee]

Football in general and the Colts in particular are a unhealthy part of my everyday life so I read stuff all the time - Colts sites, twitter, ESPN, etc - and have seen nothing from anyone who has definitively said he will be ready next year. If I missed something that profound, I would be shocked

Right, there are no guarantees on spinal issues. Only Peyton know's... and he may not still.

[braveheartcolt]

Sarcasm is my brother and no he doesn't post here any more, so I do get some information from him and run stuff by him as well. He posts at another Colts forum. I don't post there, and he doesn't post here, since it would look like we have two accounts...

Is his real User Name Caldwelljimfire?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Is his real User Name Caldwelljimfire?

His user name is sarcasm at a different forum.

[FireJimCaldwell]

If the colts did trade the pick and we wound up with 3 first round picks this year, what would that do to the cap ?

I haven't seen a likely scenario where we get 3 this year.

We could get # 4 & 22 from Cleveland which would be like drafting A.J Green & Antonhy Costanzo last year.

If you gave those two contacts a 5% bump

#1 pick 5% increase over Cam Newton's contract Cap hits.
$4,004,500.00  2012
$5,005,659.00  2013
$6,006,818.00  2014
$7,007,977.00  2015

#4 & 22 (Cleveland's picks) combined 5% increase over 2011 4&22 picks
$5,620,125.00  2012
$6,716,325.00  2013
$7,750,575.00  2014
$8,963,325.00  2015

So that would be close to what we would be looking at for the #4 & 23 as opposed to only the #1, if all 3 were to receive a 5% increased contract/signing bonus from last year's 1,4 & 22 picks.

[braveheartcolt]

His user name is sarcasm at a different forum.

Now, that is either sarcasm, or Sarcasm, or I was being sarcastic about Sarcasm.

[oldunclemark]

Ah grasshopper.... you are NOT factoring in the Q.... \

Does Peyton WANT to play for Indy? This contract was structured in a way that really gives "MANNING" leverage. His agent is a 'blue chipper" ... very solid on his part.

Manning will not be back, he will be released. And he will be THE BIGGEST FA TO EVER HIT THE OPEN MARKET.

Indy blew this one, they got snookered.... they can't even get trade value for him.

Either keep him.... which just destroys this team in the now.... Or, release him. Which is what Peyton wants I am sure.

It's not a bad thing, It happened to Montana also.

Manning will be the Colts starter in the 2012 season opener..

...and Luck will be the backup..

we're all going to have to get used to it.

[CS Colts Fan]

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Posted Yesterday, 12:19 PM

I have had this thought. I would not like for this to happen because I want to keep PM and trade 1st pick, but anyhow here is my thought?

trade the 1st pick to the browns (of course this can only work if the trade is with the browns) for their two #1's and what ever else we could get from them

then with the browns 1st pick at # 4 take RGIII QB now here is where it gets interesting--then trade PM for what he would be worth (if healthy)

what i'm thinking is that we would get a good qb (not goat or pontential goat) but good and think of all the early picks we could have for this year and next in the draft to fill in the holds at OL & DL & CB/S

I'm thinking we could have 3 1st round picks this year and including our own pick we could have 3 first round picks next year and maybe even a 2nd rd pick this year and next.

well what do you think of this possibility???

Seriously ???????????????????

You want to give up the 1st >> LUCK

and then give up the GOAT PEYTON

and get who??

Do you think RG will be there on the 4th? and if he was he is a great athelete, but he started for 1 year!!!!!!!!!!

put the glass pipe down!!!!!!!!!!!!