Grigson & Caldwell

[JColts72]

Zimmer, Greg Willams, Capers- Guess it's Caldwell love feast, lets overlook 13 game losing streak, and his poor game decisions too, cosing us a Superbowl, jet Playoff game. All who love Caldwell, don't complain once when he stinks up the year with Luck. Want Mr. Emotions, then hopefully new GM will at least provide other new coaching staff.

[1959Colts]

Thats the whole thing here too. Even though some want Caldwell out, who is out there to replace him that would be as equal? I think at this point you have to keep him atleast for another year and if the Colts struggle next year, you don't resign him.

In my opinion... Practically any new coach they choose would be equal or better than Caldwell.

[Restored]

In my opinion... Practically any new coach they choose would be equal or better than Caldwell.

I mean not exactly, some of these new coaches can barely even keep their team together. Atleast the guys never quit on Caldwell last year.

[JColts72]

How can you tell if not quit on them? There was a few games it seemed so.

[Restored]

How can you tell if not quit on them? There was a few games it seemed so.

The way the players played and how they acted in the locker room. When you heard that players on the Chargers were slowly giving up on the team, you never heard that about the colts...We just sucked lol

[rocking horse]

I work engineering and we had a boss we all liked very much but he was terminated for a mistake on a project that cost the company 2.8 million dollars. his project skills were not the best but we all worked good as a team. so just because the players like him does not mean he is a good coach. this year was his year to shine as our coach show people he could adapt and change to the challenge of losing our star quaterback along with other players..now weather it was him or mr pollian making the calls we will never know. the botttom line is our team went 2-14 with probowl players on the team and this is unacceptable by any standards..

[Ramblinwreck7]

Yeah I like him too. He really seems to have a true eye for talent as well. I'm glad we went with a younger man who could potentially do what Polian did with the Bills in the 90s-- he was a younger man who built a team for 4 Super Bowls. I also like his eye for talent in Free Agency, as he was responsible for going after Nnamdi Asomugha, from what I understand. It would be nice to get some veteran weapons in here (cap allowing, of course). I always wish we would go after somebody with a name, and with Grigsn's resume, I salivate.

Nnamdi Asomugha hasn't been worth the $12 million dollars the Eagles paid for him. He didn't play very well last year. I still like Asomugha but it wasn't a good idea for the Eagles to go after him in free agency. Jonathan Joseph on the other hand was a great signing by Houston because he played at a top pro bowl level and was cheaper.

I don't think it is a good idea to go after top free agents because they are usually very expensive. I like building through the draft like what Bill Polian did and hopefully Grigson will do that too.

[bellboys]

this is hard subject to decide. I have to say not been a big Caldwell fan. But is there a no big name or an up and coming asst coach out there to pick from. Gruden and Cowher have said their not interested in going back to coaching this next season. If they keep Caldwell maybe they see some things that they can change with some new asst coaches that can work with Caldwell in charge. Plus we also have to look at what Caldwell had to put up with. A V.P. AND G.M. that had control the everything. But if Caldwell does stay some of it has to do with the player not quiting on him. even if this past season was awful.

[Coffeedrinker]

I work engineering and we had a boss we all liked very much but he was terminated for a mistake on a project that cost the company 2.8 million dollars.

What kind of engineering do you do? I'm a mechanical design engineer, we work mainly on military projects.

his project skills were not the best but we all worked good as a team.

To go with your example of your project manager; what if he was told by his boss that he had to use the material from China and he had to follow this type of project schedule and then there was two of his supervisors directly below him who ignored his project advice and did things the way they wanted to do it anyways. Would that be the project manager's fault? Somewhat for hiring the supervisors but one can only do so much.

so just because the players like him does not mean he is a good coach.

That is true. Conversely jsut because the fans don't like him doesn't mean he's a bad coach.

this year was his year to shine as our coach show people he could adapt and change to the challenge of losing our star quaterback along with other players..now weather it was him or mr pollian making the calls we will never know. the botttom line is our team went 2-14 with probowl players on the team and this is unacceptable by any standards..

That's the funny thing, he did adapt and change things. The Colts went with a different offensive philosophy, as evident when Murphy became the DC they tried a different defensive philosophy. I truly believe if the Colts would have had; A) a different DC and B) mediocre play from the QB position the Colts would have been a 6-8 win team.

Additionaly it wasn't just the loss of Manning but just as important the cluster that was the oline for several weeks. It's never going to be good when you sign a player on Tuesday and he's starting on Sunday and that happened at least twice. Especially considering how the oline depends more on continuity than any other unit in football.

[Balzer40]

this is hard subject to decide. I have to say not been a big Caldwell fan. But is there a no big name or an up and coming asst coach out there to pick from. Gruden and Cowher have said their not interested in going back to coaching this next season. If they keep Caldwell maybe they see some things that they can change with some new asst coaches that can work with Caldwell in charge. Plus we also have to look at what Caldwell had to put up with. A V.P. AND G.M. that had control the everything. But if Caldwell does stay some of it has to do with the player not quiting on him. even if this past season was awful.

We don't need a big name guy just to replace Caldwell. Also there are plenty of good assistants in the league that could be very good coaches. Mike Zimmer, Chuck Pagano just to name a couple. Plus they have coordinating experience which is something Caldwell never had. Caldwell was gifted into a head coaching posistion he did not deserve IMO.

[braveheartcolt]

What kind of engineering do you do? I'm a mechanical design engineer, we work mainly on military projects.

To go with your example of your project manager; what if he was told by his boss that he had to use the material from China and he had to follow this type of project schedule and then there was two of his supervisors directly below him who ignored his project advice and did things the way they wanted to do it anyways. Would that be the project manager's fault? Somewhat for hiring the supervisors but one can only do so much.

That is true. Conversely jsut because the fans don't like him doesn't mean he's a bad coach.

That's the funny thing, he did adapt and change things. The Colts went with a different offensive philosophy, as evident when Murphy became the DC they tried a different defensive philosophy. I truly believe if the Colts would have had; A) a different DC and B) mediocre play from the QB position the Colts would have been a 6-8 win team.

Additionaly it wasn't just the loss of Manning but just as important the cluster that was the oline for several weeks. It's never going to be good when you sign a player on Tuesday and he's starting on Sunday and that happened at least twice. Especially considering how the oline depends more on continuity than any other unit in football.

Sorry Coffee. If he allowed his staff to ignore him and do things that they were not supposed to do, then the manager is totally at fault. He should have intervened and taken remedial action, by either managing his guys up to his expectations or managing them out the door.....just standing by watching things go down the drain is very bad management....

[Coffeedrinker]

Sorry Coffee. If he allowed his staff to ignore him and do things that they were not supposed to do, then the manager is totally at fault. He should have intervened and taken remedial action, by either managing his guys up to his expectations or managing them out the door.....just standing by watching things go down the drain is very bad management....

Isn't that what Caldwell did... fired Coyer in mid season and Ray as soon as the season was over.

[braveheartcolt]

Isn't that what Caldwell did... fired Coyer in mid season and Ray as soon as the season was over.

I was arguing against the anolagy, not the Caldwell decision. But making it relevant, you're correct, but it was way too late. The decision should have made way sooner, and ST coach even before the season opener....

[mmcrazylikeafox]

Examining one of Irsays Tweets from earlier this morning:

"I'm hearing lots about FISH and TEBS...but STING just called and said.."4get the weather,we will always be together!"

What does weather do? Changes a lot.... so I would guess he is referring to maybe keeping Caldwell.

I am OK with that. I think there are bigger fish to fry this off-season.

I assumed that he was referring to keeping Peyton Manning not Caldwell. And Irsay also tweeted "Century City has it covered." "I got a ringer." Sounds like maybe Green Bays Offensive Co-ordinator could be our new head coach!?

[Coffeedrinker]

I was arguing against the anolagy, not the Caldwell decision.

But even as a manager you always try to make it work with the current employee first, you give it as many chances as you possibly can.

But making it relevant, you're correct, but it was way too late. The decision should have made way sooner, and ST coach even before the season opener....

True. Of course I was about the only person on these forums that was not pleased with the hiring of Coyer in the first place (I didn't know much about Ray but I did not like the stats from his college days) but most everyone was saying things like, "Can't be worse than Meeks." etc. I can almost guarantee that if Meeks were the DC the Colts would have had a better record than 2-14.

[HGRekks]

Nnamdi Asomugha hasn't been worth the $12 million dollars the Eagles paid for him. He didn't play very well last year. I still like Asomugha but it wasn't a good idea for the Eagles to go after him in free agency. Jonathan Joseph on the other hand was a great signing by Houston because he played at a top pro bowl level and was cheaper.

This is due in large part to the scheme each player was put in. Joseph went to a team that still runs man coverage, his specialty. Of course he had no drop off. On the other hand, Asomugha was playing in a zone scheme for the first time in his pro career. It was a dumb idea only because they signed a guy to play in a scheme that was entirely different than what he made his money with. He started to come around at the end of the season. Hopefully, the new DC puts him in more man coverage. I'm reminded of Jason David going to NO. The money and talent weren't the same, but he went from a serviceable zone corner to a horrible man corner.

I hope Grigson is able to see that area and take such things into account. IF a team signs a guy to that large a contract, I'd hope they'd build their scheme around him or at least make sure it's one he's fit for.

[braveheartcolt]

But even as a manager you always try to make it work with the current employee first, you give it as many chances as you possibly can.

True. Of course I was about the only person on these forums that was not pleased with the hiring of Coyer in the first place (I didn't know much about Ray but I did not like the stats from his college days) but most everyone was saying things like, "Can't be worse than Meeks." etc. I can almost guarantee that if Meeks were the DC the Colts would have had a better record than 2-14.

I think we are on the same wavelength.....but a really good manager will make it work, by doing those things he needs to do to be successful in a timely fashion. Or else he takes full accountability. From a Colts perspective, I believe Caldwell and the Polians were/are accountable and all should be fired.

[a06cc]

The New GM has to give Caldwell a year before trying to fire him. It wasn't Caldwell's fault we only won 2 games. It's the players fault we lost all those games. As a coach you can only do so much. It's up to the players on the field to execute on the field. Firing a coach is a scapegoat. Players should have reduced paid for blown coverages and mistakes. They know how to play football, they should known on the field how to diagnos a play. I was very dissappointed in the team this year. We should made the playoff with the level of talent we have on our team. With or without Peyton Manning, we should've had success. They all get paid for a reason. The lack of Manning should've never changed that in my honest opinion. I remember Peyton having bad games and the defense had to bail us out. The talent is there period.

[a06cc]

And some of you are insane if you want Bill Coward as our head coach, just insane. He doesn't have anything to do with the Stealers success. Dick Lebeau and help from the refs got them superbowls. And again Coyer wasn't the problem. It's falls into the players. They have to take responsiblity for our 2-14 record.

[Blackhawk4]

And some of you are insane if you want Bill Coward as our head coach, just insane. He doesn't have anything to do with the Stealers success. Dick Lebeau and help from the refs got them superbowls. And again Coyer wasn't the problem. It's falls into the players. They have to take responsiblity for our 2-14 record.

Going to go out on a limb and say you got little to no idea what you just said. I wouldn't want him as head coach for the Colts, but saying he has nothing to do with the Steeler's success is a joke and a bad joke at that. Also it's Steelers not Stealers....

[Ramblinwreck7]

And some of you are insane if you want Bill Coward as our head coach, just insane. He doesn't have anything to do with the Stealers success. Dick Lebeau and help from the refs got them superbowls. And again Coyer wasn't the problem. It's falls into the players. They have to take responsiblity for our 2-14 record.

Caldwell's coaching this year was very subpar at times. We probably should have won 5 or 6 games, but Caldwell's stubborness to not adapt and change cost us a few games.

[braveheartcolt]

The New GM has to give Caldwell a year before trying to fire him. It wasn't Caldwell's fault we only won 2 games. It's the players fault we lost all those games. As a coach you can only do so much. It's up to the players on the field to execute on the field. Firing a coach is a scapegoat. Players should have reduced paid for blown coverages and mistakes. They know how to play football, they should known on the field how to diagnos a play. I was very dissappointed in the team this year. We should made the playoff with the level of talent we have on our team. With or without Peyton Manning, we should've had success. They all get paid for a reason. The lack of Manning should've never changed that in my honest opinion. I remember Peyton having bad games and the defense had to bail us out. The talent is there period.

The new GM so does not need to give Caldwell one year. He must give him the boot. Full stop. Anything else is shirking responsibility and getting the 'new era' of to the kind of start Joe Lefenged (sp) normally gives us.

[MAC]

As a disclaimer, this is just MY opinion, so MAC doesn't tell me how I should post....

Update: Comment re MAC was tongue in cheek. No offense meant MAC!! (which is a bit like us this seaason - no offense!)

That is funny actually. No offense taken.

For the record, a couple of months back I left the forum for a week after finding myself in the middle of a succession of bitter and personal arguments. I was trying too hard to "win", and letting things get to me. It just sucked all the fun out of being here. When I came back I resolved to try and let personally insulting comments "go" if at all possible. I haven't always controlled the urge to bite someones head off, but in general I just say "I found x, y, and z offensive for the following reasons, could you please stop being a and get back to the topic". Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't, but it's a heck of a lot healthier regardless. That doesn't mean for one second that I think that my opinion is more valid than anyone elses, or that I have the right to tell anyone what to do. It's just a technique to try and avoid losing my temper and acting like a four year old - something that I always regret. You can get along well with pretty much anyone on the planet if you don't actively create reasons not to.

[braveheartcolt]

That is funny actually. No offense taken.

For the record, a couple of months back I left the forum for a week after finding myself in the middle of a succession of bitter and personal arguments. I was trying too hard to "win", and letting things get to me. It just sucked all the fun out of being here. When I came back I resolved to try and let personally insulting comments "go" if at all possible. I haven't always controlled the urge to bite someones head off, but in general I just say "I found x, y, and z offensive for the following reasons, could you please stop being a and get back to the topic". Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't, but it's a heck of a lot healthier regardless. That doesn't mean for one second that I think that my opinion is more valid than anyone elses, or that I have the right to tell anyone what to do. It's just a technique to try and avoid losing my temper and acting like a four year old - something that I always regret. You can get along well with pretty much anyone on the planet if you don't actively create reasons not to.

Yep, I get ya. Everybody can be smart behind a keyboard. We all hover above the send button at times. And we don't always make the right choice!

[JColts72]

Look at the 49ers with same personal last year. They went for a new coach and has them playing in the playoffs-

[Mameluc]

The way the players played and how they acted in the locker room. When you heard that players on the Chargers were slowly giving up on the team, you never heard that about the colts...We just sucked lol

sure that does speak high of him, he kept the locker room together unlike the jets who were looking for a playoff spot...but it also speaks down of him that it took him like 12 weeks to realize they needed to change the offense...it also speaks down of him his sucky time management

as for coaches, dom capers, greg williams, mike zimmer, the OC of the panthers and broncos, all deserve a shot...im not a fisher fan but i much rather have him than caldwell...there are choices

[SoftShoe]

http://t.co/fRUkMNgU if this is true, then I hope Manning leaves on his own if he is healthy next year. Why waste the rest of his playing days playing for a inept coach. If this is true, so much for rebuilding what a joke.

[braveheartcolt]

sure that does speak high of him, he kept the locker room together unlike the jets who were looking for a playoff spot...but it also speaks down of him that it took him like 12 weeks to realize they needed to change the offense...it also speaks down of him his sucky time management

as for coaches, dom capers, greg williams, mike zimmer, the OC of the panthers and broncos, all deserve a shot...im not a fisher fan but i much rather have him than caldwell...there are choices

That locker room sure did look together v the Saints. There is some myth floating around this forum that JC is a good coach, despite going 0-13. I'll put it down to liking the nice guy rather than liking his coaching, management and leadership skills. But what do I know....

[JColts72]

If the Irsay/New GM want to dump out another lost season coming up, then Zombie Caldwell is just the right man. Nice this, nice that, so what! He blows a s a coach.

[Coffeedrinker]

Look at the 49ers with same personal last year. They went for a new coach and has them playing in the playoffs-

What makes you think they have the same personnel as last year? Donte Whitner, Carlos Rogers, Jonathon Goodwin, David Akers, plus moving two LBers and a CB into the starting role that had never been starters before.

[Ramblinwreck7]

What makes you think they have the same personnel as last year? Donte Whitner, Carlos Rogers, Jonathon Goodwin, David Akers, plus moving two LBers and a CB into the starting role that had never been starters before.

What about Aldon Smith?

[JColts72]

The key trunaround for 49ers was their decison to hire a new coach; NEW. not keeping old style.

[Coffeedrinker]

What about Aldon Smith?

I wasn't counting draft picks

[Coffeedrinker]

The key trunaround for 49ers was their decison to hire a new coach; NEW. not keeping old style.

Oh, it's style not same personnel then?

Just a few years before that the 49ers made the decision to hire a new coach, not keep the old style. So if a new coach and new style is all that is needed why did they have to do it again so soon?

[1959Colts]

Thats the whole thing here too. Even though some want Caldwell out, who is out there to replace him that would be as equal? I think at this point you have to keep him atleast for another year and if the Colts struggle next year, you don't resign him.

Perhaps we can bring in the coach of Wake Forrest?

[a06cc]

Going to go out on a limb and say you got little to no idea what you just said. I wouldn't want him as head coach for the Colts, but saying he has nothing to do with the Steeler's success is a joke and a bad joke at that. Also it's Steelers not Stealers....

Going out on limb I do know what I'm talking about. It is the Stealers. And look what they did after he was gone? They still went on to Superbowls and won one without him. It was the system of the defense and not him that won him a superbowl. Bill Coward is not a good coach. The only coach I would like to have is Tony Dungy.

[Blackhawk4]

Going out on limb I do know what I'm talking about. It is the Stealers. And look what they did after he was gone? They still went on to Superbowls and won one without him. It was the system of the defense and not him that won him a superbowl. Bill Coward is not a good coach. The only coach I would like to have is Tony Dungy.

They won a superbowl after he was gone yea, but that doesn't make him a bad coach. Where's the fact that says Bill Cowher is not a good coach? You really got no idea what you're talking about.

[achcolts]

caldwell was a puppet for most of the season and imo i think he did more "coaching" towards the end of the season...he even showed more emotion lol

[JColts72]

How did he do more "coaching" at the end of the season? provide examples?

[BIGugly]

Look at the 49ers with same personal last year. They went for a new coach and has them playing in the playoffs-

Well, he brought in some coaching changes, not the least of which was one Mr. Vic Fangio as DC. Did you see the way SF trackled yesterday? They actually put their arms out and around and wrapped guys up and tackled. Except with the Colts he has been a very effective DC. Can he be a HC? Isn't Polian the REAL reason he and Mora got fired? And Polian is gone.....

I'm just sayin'......