OPCs Draft Profile – DeForest Buckner, DE

[OffensivelyPC]

Height: 6’7” / Weight: 290 lb.

Games Watched – vs. Ohio St. (2014), vs. Washington State (2015), vs Michigan St. (2015)

 

I wish I could remember who it was who first brought my attention to Buckner, but he is a man amongst boys.  Not the quickest 3-4 DE, but he does not give up an inch on the ground, and it shows up on tape.  He moves all along the DL, but primarily plays a 3-4-5 technique.  Occasionally he’ll line up in a 1 and 6 tech. 

 

Before Diving into the grades, I wanted to give a quick explanation of the draft methodology.  Everyone has their own and it’s difficult sometimes to understand what the numbers mean when it’s not explained beforehand (or there’s no link to it, so I’ll try to keep it in every post).  Basically, each player can get a max raw score of 100 (it varies from position to position, but generally speaking, it’s 80% of what you see on film, 20% size, speed, strength, athleticism, etc., which may change after the combine or that player’s pro day).  Each raw score is put on a scale using a 9.0 scale.  Here’s the general breakdown:

 

9.0 – 8.0                Generational player, will dominate at his position

7.99 – 7.50            Future All Pro, Elite Player

7.49 – 7.0              Potential Pro Bowler, Immediate Starter (1st-2nd)

6.99 – 6.50            Solid Starter – Potential Starter by Year (2nd - 3rd)

6.49 – 6.00            Solid Backup – Role Player with Starter Potential (4th-5th)

5.99 – 5.50            Role Player but unlikely to start, Quality Special Teams (6th-7th)

 

I don’t like putting round projections on things, but it’s really the only way to assign value to the player.  I’m sure it’ll change over time. I know it’s not perfect . . . sue me.

 

 

Okay, to the grading.  I’ll go in similar order as Dustin and Superman, seems to flow well.

 

Size – At his size (again, Height:6’7”/Weight: 290 lb.), he could really line up anywhere and be effective.  He carries his weight well and is pretty maxed out as far as his frame goes.  The only issue I have is he is just a tad too tall.  We’ll see where his combine numbers are, but I don’t think he’s any shorter than 6’6”.  Not a huge knock, especially considering his strength, but it does pose leverage issues. 4/5

 

Athleticism – He’s basically the football version of Wreck-It-Ralph.  Excellent length and big hands.  On film, he doesn’t seem to have the speed to really move to the outside and work as a 3-4 OLB, but he’s surprisingly agile for an ogre.  He’s got very good burst off the snap, great closing speed for a guy his size (above average to good in general), and an explosive punch at the point of attack.  He doesn’t have the greatest flexibility, which will limit him in a 4-3, but it can keep him upright at times to keep his feet, or lose balance in an effort to turn the corner.  12/15

 

Pass Rush – A lot of this will be touched on in technique, but he is a nightmare to defend and generally requires 2 blockers if its’ anything over a 3 step drop.  His arsenal is undeveloped, but his bull rush is elite.  He’s capable of getting push on a double teamed by the G and T (which happens a lot) while splitting the double team.  For being 6’7” he makes good use of leverage, but he could get his hands up in short drop passes more often.  While not necessarily pass rush, he did drop back into coverage, but sparingly.    16/20

 

Run Defense – Unless his feet get sloppy or he trips over someone getting to the ball carrier, he won’t be pushed off the ball.  Double team or not.  It almost never happens.  He makes great use of his long arms and keeps the blocker from getting latched.  Good shed and arm chop to break the block and lunge at the RB.  Holds the edge well and has enough speed to stretch the play out if necessary until the cavalry arrives.  Aware of pulling blockers and will blow up the blockers to free up other defenders.  18/20

 

Technique – I don’t want to say he’s a one-trick pony, because he’s not.  He has other moves in his arsenal outside of a bull rush that work on occasion, but they’re not very well developed.  He has a lot of wasted movement when he uses his hands, violent as it may be.  Also, his spin move is practically useless (I wish I wrote down the time, but in the Wash. St. game, he started with a power move and got into his guy, but when he did the spin, he literally stayed stationary and did a 360, giving his man time to reset).  Despite all this, he does win some battles and he has shown improvement from 2014 to 2015 (particularly his swim move).  He’s learning, and if he gets it down, he will wreck opposing offenses. 15/20 

 

Play Recognition – In the games I watched, he is aware of where the ball is at all times, with minimal breakdowns in tracking the ball.  He’s quick to diagnose play action, draws and screens.  I did note one or two screen plays on 3^rd and double digits and he missed the screen developing en route to the QB (to his credit, he almost got to the QB and altered the throwing lane).  9/10

 

Versatility – This has been touched on above.  Lines up on both the left and right side of the ball, effective on either side.  Only on a handful of plays does he line up over the middle or in a 6 tech (or wider).  He’s most suited for a 3-4 DE.  With some improvement in pass rush technique, he could be a 4-3, but it wouldn’t be his ideal landing spot.  8/10

 

Raw Score: 82/100

Composite Score: 7.38 – Potential Pro-Bowler, Immediate Starter

Projected Round – High 1^st Round

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Peytonator]

He is far more Calais Campbell than Arik Armstead was coming out last year. I'd absolutely love to get him at our pick, but I don't think it's very likely he drops. Hopefully he tests positive for THC or something and we can get him. Anderson and Buckner would give us a tremendous Dline for the future.

[Defjamz26]

If there isn't a good pass rusher there, he's who I would pick for the Colts. He would start at the DE/DT spot that Anderson does until he's healthy. Then he would likely beat out Langford for the other DE spot. I would hope he makes it past the Bears though.

[OffensivelyPC]

4 hours ago, The Peytonator said:

He is far more Calais Campbell than Arik Armstead was coming out last year. I'd absolutely love to get him at our pick, but I don't think it's very likely he drops. Hopefully he tests positive for THC or something and we can get him. Anderson and Buckner would give us a tremendous Dline for the future.

Oh, me either. He was just the first DL prospect I really enjoyed watching so wanted to do a write up.

29 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

If there isn't a good pass rusher there, he's who I would pick for the Colts. He would start at the DE/DT spot that Anderson does until he's healthy. Then he would likely beat out Langford for the other DE spot. I would hope he makes it past the Bears though.

Not that a crowded DL would keep us from drafting a guy like this, but if a top 10 talent falls to you at all, you hope it's at a different need (i.e. Ronnie Stanley or Myles Jack if he is still rated that high on out board). 

[JRnINDY]

He's definitely a deserving top 20 pick. I'd love for you to evaluate Jonathan Bullard from Florida. He looks like a sleeper DE that has 1st round quality. He's one of the fastest off the ball I can remember and dominated for a very good Florida D.

[NewColtsFan]

 

Unless something very unexpected happens,  it's hard to see Bruckner falling out of the top-10/12.

 

Falling to 18 seems unimaginable.....

 

 

[OffensivelyPC]

3 hours ago, JRnINDY said:

He's definitely a deserving top 20 pick. I'd love for you to evaluate Jonathan Bullard from Florida. He looks like a sleeper DE that has 1st round quality. He's one of the fastest off the ball I can remember and dominated for a very good Florida D.

I'll take a look at him sometime. We'll see on a full on review. Times hard to come by with an 18 month old. My list of prospects I want to get to is always subject to change.

[NewColtsFan]

33 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I'll take a look at him sometime. We'll see on a full on review. Times hard to come by with an 18 month old. My list of prospects I want to get to is always subject to change.

 

You have an 18 month old?!?

 

And you haven't posted pictures of him/her with some Colts clothes on?!?

 

Shame on you!    Bad parent!      We want pictures!!     We want pictures!!         

[OffensivelyPC]

18 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You have an 18 month old?!?

 

And you haven't posted pictures of him/her with some Colts clothes on?!?

 

Shame on you!    Bad parent!      We want pictures!!     We want pictures!!         

It's not because we don't have them!

 

It's funny because my wife seldom asks me to dress her before church on Sunday. If she does, it's a cute onesie with jeans snd shoes. If it's me, it's Colts something and I figure the rest out later. Any other day, I dress my girl the way mom asks me to. Lol

[OffensivelyPC]

24 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You have an 18 month old?!?

 

And you haven't posted pictures of him/her with some Colts clothes on?!?

 

Shame on you!    Bad parent!      We want pictures!!     We want pictures!!         

Ps, I will get them up soon 

[Gavin]

I don't think he falls past 15 but he is 1 of a few I have targeted at 18 if he is there

[Superman]

On 1/9/2016 at 0:20 AM, OffensivelyPC said:

He’s basically the football version of Wreck-It-Ralph

 

 

I just watched him. Good notes by you. Rather than make another thread, I'm going to piggyback on yours and just point out some things I noticed as well. Your thoughts mirror mine, for the most part. 

 

Heavy hands, he moves everyone who tries to block him, great push; but he isn't quite the same force against Ohio State and Michigan State as he is against Pac 12 competition. He moves with suddenness, has explosiveness and finishing power. Long arms which he uses to stack and shed well. Very difficult to block for more than a second or two. Still working on putting his hands and feet together to beat blockers, but shows the ability often enough, and is unblockable when he does. 

 

You mentioned his leverage, which is surprising for someone his size. He has reasonably good bend and agility which makes up for him being a little high. (JJ Watt and Henry Anderson are 6'6", so he's not so tall that it can't work; just has to play low.) When he does come in too high, he undermines all his positives. He needs coaching on staying square and keeping his feet under him.

 

Swallows up ball carriers from in front, behind, chasing down the line, etc. Arrives with authority, if a little high sometimes.

 

He had a knee scoped after 2014, and I can't find anything that says what kind of injury he had. Meniscus, cartilage, ligament... no one is saying. I think he'll have to share more information about that at the Combine. He also skipped the Senior Bowl, but claimed to be healthy.

 

He is definitely a game wrecker. He is NOT a raw athlete that gets people excited, like Arik Armstead; anyone who compares the two is out of their mind. He's a hard working, motor burning, dominant force who leaves a trail of bodies in his wake, while producing like crazy. Hurricane Buckner. Definitely a first round projection, IMO.

 

And he's made to play 3/5 tech in a 3-4 front. He reminds me of a more explosive, more violent Henry Anderson.

 

Just for my own notes, I'll summarize using Dustin's scoring format:

Size: if anything, he's too tall; 4/5

Athleticism: good movement and agility, limited range; 8/10

Pass rushing ability: has tools, technique is wild and sloppy: 6/10

Run game ability: blows up blockers, can be doubled, when technique breaks down he's out of the play; 8/10

Technical ability: needs work, but has the outline to be sound; 6/10

Versatility: mostly a 3-4 DE, not a good enough pass rusher as a 4-3 DE, but could play there if necessary; 3/5

Tackling: good tackler, sometimes too high, has range to make ankle tackles; 3.5/5

Play recognition: Good job diagnosing run, pass, play action, screens, and shows good anticipation of where the run is going; average snap anticipation; 8/10

Overall: 48.5/65, 75%, solid first rounder

 

[OffensivelyPC]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

 

 

Overall: 48.5/65, 75%, solid first rounder

 

I snipped out just for the length, but a few thoughts and notes:

 

1) First and foremost, thanks for weighing in.  When you take the time to watch and do a write-up it's always great when others give meaningful feedback/opinions.  

 

2) On his leverage, I agree.  If anything, he's just a bit too tall.  The fact that he can be so dominant when he plays with good pad level is the best sign.  It'll just take reps and coaching to get it to be more consistent.  He does fatigue, which I think is when he especially starts to get sloppy.  If he were inserted into the Colts OL, you'd want him and Anderson on the field at the same time more often than not, but having Langford would be a good role player (and would often give him a break) when it came to passing downs.  A potentially top 5 interior DL rotation if we could land him.

 

3) The 2014 Knee scope...I had looked around and read about this guy plenty and I had never even seen anything on it.  We do'nt get to do interviews, so all we have is what's on the web.  So that's kind of a surprise to me.  Last year I didn't get to spend much time following the draft (tear...), so I'll be curious to see what, if anything, comes from that.  Ultimately, his return for his senior season was an excellent decision in hindsight and he improved that much more, playing well the entire season.  So whatever it was, it's probably nothign to be terribly concerned about, but definitely looked into.  Glad you dug that up.  

 

4) On the Arik Armstead comparison - I'm so glad someone else sees it that way.  

 

PS - Don't know how I didn't think to put the Ralph GIF on my OP, but it fits nicely lol (one of the few animated movies I still enjoy that my kid watches 50 billion times).

[krunk]

I agree on buckner as well

[Superman]

2 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

He does fatigue, which I think is when he especially starts to get sloppy.

 

I meant to mention that. Yes, he does fatigue, but I think he plays way too many snaps. I haven't charted, but his videos on DB are usually between 12-16 minutes, which is long for a DL. 

[OffensivelyPC]

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I meant to mention that. Yes, he does fatigue, but I think he plays way too many snaps. I haven't charted, but his videos on DB are usually between 12-16 minutes, which is long for a DL. 

I did chart some , but not in depth to give you snap counts (I usually leave out dead plays unless something notable happened, shotty filming, etc.).  Still, my notes on him were much longer.  

[Gavin]

Might just be my favorite prospect in this draft

[OffensivelyPC]

3 hours ago, Gavin said:

Might just be my favorite prospect in this draft

He was a lot of fun to watch, I'll admit.

[COLTS449]

No way he falls out of the top 10. I wouldn't be surprised if Baltimore takes him actually. They'll take him or Hargreaves or Ramsey IMO. Unless Bosa Falls to them.

[NewColtsFan]

16 hours ago, Superman said:

 

 

I just watched him. Good notes by you. Rather than make another thread, I'm going to piggyback on yours and just point out some things I noticed as well. Your thoughts mirror mine, for the most part. 

 

Heavy hands, he moves everyone who tries to block him, great push; but he isn't quite the same force against Ohio State and Michigan State as he is against Pac 12 competition. He moves with suddenness, has explosiveness and finishing power. Long arms which he uses to stack and shed well. Very difficult to block for more than a second or two. Still working on putting his hands and feet together to beat blockers, but shows the ability often enough, and is unblockable when he does. 

 

You mentioned his leverage, which is surprising for someone his size. He has reasonably good bend and agility which makes up for him being a little high. (JJ Watt and Henry Anderson are 6'6", so he's not so tall that it can't work; just has to play low.) When he does come in too high, he undermines all his positives. He needs coaching on staying square and keeping his feet under him.

 

Swallows up ball carriers from in front, behind, chasing down the line, etc. Arrives with authority, if a little high sometimes.

 

He had a knee scoped after 2014, and I can't find anything that says what kind of injury he had. Meniscus, cartilage, ligament... no one is saying. I think he'll have to share more information about that at the Combine. He also skipped the Senior Bowl, but claimed to be healthy.

 

He is definitely a game wrecker. He is NOT a raw athlete that gets people excited, like Arik Armstead; anyone who compares the two is out of their mind. He's a hard working, motor burning, dominant force who leaves a trail of bodies in his wake, while producing like crazy. Hurricane Buckner. Definitely a first round projection, IMO.

 

And he's made to play 3/5 tech in a 3-4 front. He reminds me of a more explosive, more violent Henry Anderson.

 

Just for my own notes, I'll summarize using Dustin's scoring format:

Size: if anything, he's too tall; 4/5

Athleticism: good movement and agility, limited range; 8/10

Pass rushing ability: has tools, technique is wild and sloppy: 6/10

Run game ability: blows up blockers, can be doubled, when technique breaks down he's out of the play; 8/10

Technical ability: needs work, but has the outline to be sound; 6/10

Versatility: mostly a 3-4 DE, not a good enough pass rusher as a 4-3 DE, but could play there if necessary; 3/5

Tackling: good tackler, sometimes too high, has range to make ankle tackles; 3.5/5

Play recognition: Good job diagnosing run, pass, play action, screens, and shows good anticipation of where the run is going; average snap anticipation; 8/10

Overall: 48.5/65, 75%, solid first rounder

 

 

The  Amsted comparison's have nothing to do with the style of game they play.

 

The Amsted comparison have everything to do with the fact that they're both 6'7" and 290 pounds.

 

HELLO?!?

 

Was that really that hard to see?

 

Apparently so.

 

[wig]

So glad that DB has some more videos up. Dude is really fun to watch.  Elite production and he has rom to grow. I think he'll end up as the best player in the draft. 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The  Amsted comparison's have nothing to do with the style of game they play.

 

The Amsted comparison have everything to do with the fact that they're both 6'7" and 290 pounds.

 

HELLO?!?

 

Was that really that hard to see?

 

Apparently so.

 

 

...

 

The fact that they're the same size has nothing to do with ho they play or how good they are. If that were the case, there'd be no reason to look at film and study traits; we could just look at their listed height and weight and know what kind of player they are.

 

It's that they are the same size that has people comparing them. That's very obvious. It's also very obvious that that's not a good reason to compare two players.

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

...

 

The fact that they're the same size has nothing to do with ho they play or how good they are. If that were the case, there'd be no reason to look at film and study traits; we could just look at their listed height and weight and know what kind of player they are.

 

It's that they are the same size that has people comparing them. That's very obvious. It's also very obvious that that's not a good reason to compare two players.

 

You want more reason?

 

OK....

 

How about two players who are the same freakish size also happen to play for the same school.   That does't happen very often.

 

How about these two players are both first round draft picks.     So even though Bruckner is more advanced than Amsted,  it's not like Armsted was such a big project that he was a lesser draft pick -- he wasn't.

 

One is more advanced than the other,  we get that.

 

They've got some similarities.    I don't think it's unreasonable to note that.....

 

That's all I'm saying....

 

[Superman]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

You want more reason?

 

OK....

 

How about two players who are the same freakish size also happen to play for the same school.   That does't happen very often.

 

How about these two players are both first round draft picks.     So even though Bruckner is more advanced than Amsted,  it's not like Armsted was such a big project that he was a lesser draft pick -- he wasn't.

 

One is more advanced than the other,  we get that.

 

They've got some similarities.    I don't think it's unreasonable to note that.....

 

That's all I'm saying....

 

 

It's obvious why people are mentioning them together. Same size, same school, both play defense. I'm not struggling with the logic. Those are still not good reasons.

 

Check this out:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/deforest-buckner?id=2555275

Quote

 

SOURCES TELL US

 "His comp is going to be Calais Campbell or Arik Armstead but I think he's more talented coming out than either one of those guys. He's twice the player Armstead was coming out." -­ NFC Regional Scout

NFL COMPARISON

 Calais Campbell

BOTTOM LINE

 Headed into this season, Buckner was a traits prospect who flashed with quickness, strength and overall athleticism, but he put those traits together in 2015. Buckner has the body type of a classic 3-­4 defensive end who can control the point of attack with length and power, but he has above average pass rush potential for that position which figures to push him into the early stages of round one. Buckner has similar power to former teammate Arik Armstead, but is a much better pass rusher and has a chance to become a dominant force in the NFL.

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/57512/325/prospect-rankings-front-7

Quote

 I know everyone is saying DeForest Buckner is a better prospect than Arik Armstead. I’m not sure about that. Buckner is very stout against the run but has a ways to go as a pass rusher.

 

http://nflmocks.com/2016/01/03/deforest-buckner-dl-oregon-2016-nfl-draft-scouting-report/

Quote

Last year it was Arik Armstead, now its DeForest Buckner. Oregon looks to be producing another massive first round defensive linemen, and this one is arguably better. 

 

http://www.todayspigskin.com/nfl-draft/deforest-buckner-2016-nfl-draft-scouting-report/

Quote

Has been compared to his former teammate, and current San Francisco 49er Arik Armstead as they both have similar builds. That is where the comparison stops for me though

 

It was really just a throwaway comment by me, not something I intended to be a giant point of contention. But I made it because many people are mentioning them together. I'm pointing out that they are NOT similar prospects, IMO, as Buckner >>> Armstead. 

 

You might also remember that I wasn't impressed with Armstead to begin with.

[NewColtsFan]

44 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's obvious why people are mentioning them together. Same size, same school, both play defense. I'm not struggling with the logic. Those are still not good reasons.

 

Check this out:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/deforest-buckner?id=2555275

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/57512/325/prospect-rankings-front-7

 

http://nflmocks.com/2016/01/03/deforest-buckner-dl-oregon-2016-nfl-draft-scouting-report/

 

http://www.todayspigskin.com/nfl-draft/deforest-buckner-2016-nfl-draft-scouting-report/

 

It was really just a throwaway comment by me, not something I intended to be a giant point of contention. But I made it because many people are mentioning them together. I'm pointing out that they are NOT similar prospects, IMO, as Buckner >>> Armstead. 

 

You might also remember that I wasn't impressed with Armstead to begin with.

 

Sorry.....    wasn't looking for a fight over any of this....

 

Just stating a point or two for what little it's worth....   and I should emphasize "little"....

 

As for Buckner, or Bruckner,   I only wish this discussion was over whether or not we can draft him.

 

Because by the time it comes around to our pick,  I think he's going to be off the board for a long, long time.

 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Sorry.....    wasn't looking for a fight over any of this....

 

Just stating a point or two for what little it's worth....   and I should emphasize "little"....

 

As for Buckner, or Bruckner,   I only wish this discussion was over whether or not we can draft him.

 

Because by the time it comes around to our pick,  I think he's going to be off the board for a long, long time.

 

 

LOL, pretty sure it's Buckner. 

 

And you're right, he's not going to be there at #18. Maybe he'll fail a drug test between now and then, but I'm still not sure he'd drop that far. I think he's a trade-up candidate, but I doubt the Colts make that kind of move. 

[DougDew]

I'd pick him if he fell to 18.  Release Jones and use the money elsewhere.  A DL of Buckner, Parry, Anderson could be very formidible, allowing all LBs to perform better.