Alex Mack says winning is important to him

[Superman]

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/browns_alex_mack_on_looming_op.html

 

When asked about his contract -- he has an opt-out after this season -- he said "winning is really important to me." 

 

From the article: 

Quote

 

In seven seasons, Mack has gone 29-70, and has finished with five or fewer victories in six of his seven seasons. If the 3-11 Browns lose their final two games, they'll finish 3-13 -- the worst record in Mack's tenure.

 

What's more, he's already played for four head coaches and has lived through three firings. He's blocked for 13 different starting quarterbacks since he was drafted in the first round of 2009 out of Cal.

 

And, as everyone knows, Mack could  be blocking for more new quarterbacks in 2016 and Mike Pettine and his staff could be wiped out after the season.

 

 

I'm pretty sure Mack will choose to opt out after 2015, and he'll probably be leaving the Browns, if his comments are any indication. That's before you even talk about the money. He's 30, and he has a chance to go to free agency as one of the best centers in the league. If he plays out his contract, he won't hit free agency until he's 33. This is his last chance for a payday, and he can play for a better football program than the Browns.

 

Mack wants to win, and his opt-out is a win-win for him. Seems like a done deal to me.

[DougDew]

I agree.  It sounds like he'll be with a new team next year...and was thinking ahead when he signed the contract. 

 

Overpaying for FAs can hurt a club more than buying cheap ones that don't work out, IMO. Having said that, given the choice of paying Mack or using a higher draft pick on a rookie C in the spring, I'd prefer to pay Mack and use the draft to upgrade athleticism on the D.

[crazycolt1]

29 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I agree.  It sounds like he'll be with a new team next year...and was thinking ahead when he signed the contract. 

 

Overpaying for FAs can hurt a club more than buying cheap ones that don't work out, IMO. Having said that, given the choice of paying Mack or using a higher draft pick on a rookie C in the spring, I'd prefer to pay Mack and use the draft to upgrade athleticism on the D.

I agree but as longs as it's a reasonable contract. Mack may want to go with the best team he thinks is ready to go to a championship. In reality is the Colts a team he might want to play for with the possible coaching change, a GM change and in a mini rebuild? I am pretty sure he will be coveted by stronger team than the Colts. So I guess we wait?

[Mjølner]

12 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I agree but as longs as it's a reasonable contract. Mack may want to go with the best team he thinks is ready to go to a championship. In reality is the Colts a team he might want to play for with the possible coaching change, a GM change and in a mini rebuild? I am pretty sure he will be coveted by stronger team than the Colts. So I guess we wait?

 

That's a good point. Unfortunately, there are other good teams out there that are in need of a center as well. Definitely Cardinals and Bengals, perhaps Broncos and Seahawks as well? And they all have the cap space to do so as well..

What do you guys think his contract is gonna look like?
 

[BProland85]

Would rather have Stephen Wisniewski since he is 4 years younger 

[aaron11]

are the colts the right team if winning is the goal?

[Colts_Fan12]

49 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

are the colts the right team if winning is the goal?

True we got a lot of changes that need to happen before we win like we should 

[dw49]

15 hours ago, Superman said:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/browns_alex_mack_on_looming_op.html

 

When asked about his contract -- he has an opt-out after this season -- he said "winning is really important to me." 

 

From the article: 

 

I'm pretty sure Mack will choose to opt out after 2015, and he'll probably be leaving the Browns, if his comments are any indication. That's before you even talk about the money. He's 30, and he has a chance to go to free agency as one of the best centers in the league. If he plays out his contract, he won't hit free agency until he's 33. This is his last chance for a payday, and he can play for a better football program than the Browns.

 

Mack wants to win, and his opt-out is a win-win for him. Seems like a done deal to me.

 

I would think he's a big favorite to opt out. He's collected all the guaranteed money , so unless he likes losing in Cleveland , why would he stay ? He should be able to at the very least match what Cleveland is scheduled to pay him. 

 

That said , it's a lot of money to pay for a center. That said , would I do it if I were the Colts ? I would sign him in a heart beat . Providing his play is still near the top of his position , just do it. Please Grigson , Irsay or whomever will have the final say. Fix this center position once and for all. 

[dw49]

18 hours ago, Superman said:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/browns_alex_mack_on_looming_op.html

 

When asked about his contract -- he has an opt-out after this season -- he said "winning is really important to me." 

 

From the article: 

 

I'm pretty sure Mack will choose to opt out after 2015, and he'll probably be leaving the Browns, if his comments are any indication. That's before you even talk about the money. He's 30, and he has a chance to go to free agency as one of the best centers in the league. If he plays out his contract, he won't hit free agency until he's 33. This is his last chance for a payday, and he can play for a better football program than the Browns.

 

Mack wants to win, and his opt-out is a win-win for him. Seems like a done deal to me.

 

 

Wow.. Was just roaming around on a salary cap site (overthecap.com) and I'm amazed at what the best Rt's make. The 3 highest average under 7 mill per year. Then the next 4 are at 6 mill even.  less than the top centers make. I knew that the #'s were on the lower side of the wage scale but had no idea that low.

[akcolt]

5 hours ago, BProland85 said:

Would rather have Stephen Wisniewski since he is 4 years younger 

I'm with you. If we try to grab a Brown get their RT Schwartz. Draft Pyke or Tretola to play RG. 

[rock8591]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

 

Wow.. Was just roaming around on a salary cap site (overthecap.com) and I'm amazed at what the best Rt's make. The 3 highest average under 7 mill per year. Then the next 4 are at 6 mill even.  less than the top centers make. I knew that the #'s were on the lower side of the wage scale but had no idea that low.

 

It's amazing how much LT's make compared to RTs and Guards.

 

That's why IMO we should make Kelechi Osemele an offer he can't refuse - highest paid guard in the game, 5 years, 45 million, 30 guaranteed or so...and Stefan Wisnewski at 4 years 16 million or so... (far higher than his $2 million a year average with the Jags)...would eat up about a total of $13 million total a year of cap room (9+4 = 13), but that'd be a tiny price to pay to essentially stabilize the OL for years.

 

Imagine this lineup:

 

George Costanza (also draft a LT in rounds 3-4 to be his backup)

Osemele

Wisnewski - Holmes - Harrison

Mewhort - Thornton

Reitz - Goode

 

That'd be the best OL in the league.

[ztboiler]

20 hours ago, Superman said:

Mack wants to win, and his opt-out is a win-win for him. Seems like a done deal to me.

Serious question....Is Mack really as good as his reputation or would he just make us all feel better about our lightning rod position for the unit we all angst over the most?  I don't watch the Browns at all - in fact, I don't have to leave town to locate futility this year - but does he represent a meaningful performance delta over a league average center?  

 

I'm finally ready to spend $9M a year on the position so that we don't have to use draft resources in the first 5 rounds....but I'd really like for the goods to match their label.  If they do, then it's plausible to think we can get 4 more high performance years out of him - and that is more than good enough to say yes.

 

There isn't another FA center on the market that offers a quick fix (unless you are a Wisniewski guy).  All other options look equivalent to me to drafting another center in the middle rounds.  Because the 2012 draft class isn't going to cost near as much to re-sign as projected, and we don't have any major re-signs (other than Luck) until Davis, Moncrief and Mewhort hit the market in 2018, it is fiscally responsible to give Mack his market value if you believe you are getting the goods.  In fact, after we cut AJ, T Cole, and DQ Jax, we're gonna need to be pretty spendy in free agency again - to the tune of $25-30M by my math.  

 

I'm hoping/assuming we won't spend much to retain the TE's.

 

I remain leary of bringing in star players  at a premium from bad teams.  I think we'd have to do this one though.

[DougDew]

I wouldn't pay Mack $9million per year.  That has to be partly based on reputation. 

 

And Wisnewski was on the mrket for a long time last year before signing with the Jags for $2million.  I wouldn't pay him $4million.

[dw49]

2 hours ago, rock8591 said:

 

It's amazing how much LT's make compared to RTs and Guards.

 

That's why IMO we should make Kelechi Osemele an offer he can't refuse - highest paid guard in the game, 5 years, 45 million, 30 guaranteed or so...and Stefan Wisnewski at 4 years 16 million or so... (far higher than his $2 million a year average with the Jags)...would eat up about a total of $13 million total a year of cap room (9+4 = 13), but that'd be a tiny price to pay to essentially stabilize the OL for years.

 

Imagine this lineup:

 

George Costanza (also draft a LT in rounds 3-4 to be his backup)

Osemele

Wisnewski - Holmes - Harrison

Mewhort - Thornton

Reitz - Goode

 

That'd be the best OL in the league.

 

 

Anything we do to improve our O line is good by me. It's been bad since Polian decided it was responsible for the loss to the Saints.

[Superman]

On 12/25/2015 at 2:36 PM, ztboiler said:

Serious question....Is Mack really as good as his reputation or would he just make us all feel better about our lightning rod position for the unit we all angst over the most?  I don't watch the Browns at all - in fact, I don't have to leave town to locate futility this year - but does he represent a meaningful performance delta over a league average center?  

 

I'm finally ready to spend $9M a year on the position so that we don't have to use draft resources in the first 5 rounds....but I'd really like for the goods to match their label.  If they do, then it's plausible to think we can get 4 more high performance years out of him - and that is more than good enough to say yes.

 

There isn't another FA center on the market that offers a quick fix (unless you are a Wisniewski guy).  All other options look equivalent to me to drafting another center in the middle rounds.  Because the 2012 draft class isn't going to cost near as much to re-sign as projected, and we don't have any major re-signs (other than Luck) until Davis, Moncrief and Mewhort hit the market in 2018, it is fiscally responsible to give Mack his market value if you believe you are getting the goods.  In fact, after we cut AJ, T Cole, and DQ Jax, we're gonna need to be pretty spendy in free agency again - to the tune of $25-30M by my math.  

 

I'm hoping/assuming we won't spend much to retain the TE's.

 

I remain leary of bringing in star players  at a premium from bad teams.  I think we'd have to do this one though.

 

He's not as good as his reputation. He never could be, to be honest. There's a phenomenon where the best players who are free agents are 'the best at their position.' Like how Devin McCourty was 'the best safety in the league' last year. It's usually not true. And this is now twice that Alex Mack will be a free agent within three years, so he's going to get plenty of hype. It's even worse because he plays what's traditionally a non premium position. All this equals him being overpaid.

 

Now, that doesn't mean he isn't very good. He is. I'd put him in my top three behind Maurkice Pouncey and Travis Frederick, both of whom are younger than him. Up until this year, I'd have put Jason Kelce ahead of him. That's not a knock, I just don't think he's the best center in the league. But he'll definitely be the best free agent center, just like he was two years ago.

 

As for value above replacement, I think he's worthy of consideration for us, no matter what he'll be paid. We have a QB who is more deliberate than other top notch QBs, and we're weak on the interior. He's a veteran who commands the respect of his teammates. I think he immediately improves our offensive line, and even though he's a center, he probably could be responsible for an extra win or two for us. The presumed stability alone is worth paying premium money for him (or a player like him). Because of his age and injury history, I wouldn't guarantee money past the second year. 

 

It's not a necessity, to me. It's a luxury. I don't even think it would necessarily influence our draft board, because of his age, so I can't say 'if we sign him we don't need to draft a center.' Besides, I'm a big "don't reach for need, stick to your board" guy. But, like everyone else, I'm sick of not having good center play. It's been six years since we even had respectable center play.

[akcolt]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

He's not as good as his reputation. He never could be, to be honest. There's a phenomenon where the best players who are free agents are 'the best at their position.' Like how Devin McCourty was 'the best safety in the league' last year. It's usually not true. And this is now twice that Alex Mack will be a free agent within three years, so he's going to get plenty of hype. It's even worse because he plays what's traditionally a non premium position. All this equals him being overpaid.

 

Now, that doesn't mean he isn't very good. He is. I'd put him in my top three behind Maurkice Pouncey and Travis Frederick, both of whom are younger than him. Up until this year, I'd have put Jason Kelce ahead of him. That's not a knock, I just don't think he's the best center in the league. But he'll definitely be the best free agent center, just like he was two years ago.

 

As for value above replacement, I think he's worthy of consideration for us, no matter what he'll be paid. We have a QB who is more deliberate than other top notch QBs, and we're weak on the interior. He's a veteran who commands the respect of his teammates. I think he immediately improves our offensive line, and even though he's a center, he probably could be responsible for an extra win or two for us. The presumed stability alone is worth paying premium money for him (or a player like him). Because of his age and injury history, I wouldn't guarantee money past the second year. 

 

It's not a necessity, to me. It's a luxury. I don't even think it would necessarily influence our draft board, because of his age, so I can't say 'if we sign him we don't need to draft a center.' Besides, I'm a big "don't reach for need, stick to your board" guy. But, like everyone else, I'm sick of not having good center play. It's been six years since we even had respectable center play.

C is easy  Wisenewski if we miss on him Jones from Houston. They are 26 and  25. The line is stabilized. I don't think we need a great C a good will do wonders. The line will be stabalized for the next 5-7 years. 

 

I would not pay all that money for Mack. We have other holes. 

 

Then bring in Jeff Allen from KC he has played both G spots and RT. He could push both positions on the right side. I think he probably ends up starting at RG unless Thorton can put it together quick. He is 25, 

 

Then we could see what we have in Good and Heenan. Or draft OL if one is sitting there. I think an NFL quality C solves a lot of problems on the OL. 

[ztboiler]

On 12/28/2015 at 7:39 PM, Superman said:

 

He's not as good as his reputation. He never could be, to be honest. There's a phenomenon where the best players who are free agents are 'the best at their position.' Like how Devin McCourty was 'the best safety in the league' last year. It's usually not true. And this is now twice that Alex Mack will be a free agent within three years, so he's going to get plenty of hype. It's even worse because he plays what's traditionally a non premium position. All this equals him being overpaid.

 

Now, that doesn't mean he isn't very good. He is. I'd put him in my top three behind Maurkice Pouncey and Travis Frederick, both of whom are younger than him. Up until this year, I'd have put Jason Kelce ahead of him. That's not a knock, I just don't think he's the best center in the league. But he'll definitely be the best free agent center, just like he was two years ago.

 

As for value above replacement, I think he's worthy of consideration for us, no matter what he'll be paid. We have a QB who is more deliberate than other top notch QBs, and we're weak on the interior. He's a veteran who commands the respect of his teammates. I think he immediately improves our offensive line, and even though he's a center, he probably could be responsible for an extra win or two for us. The presumed stability alone is worth paying premium money for him (or a player like him). Because of his age and injury history, I wouldn't guarantee money past the second year. 

 

It's not a necessity, to me. It's a luxury. I don't even think it would necessarily influence our draft board, because of his age, so I can't say 'if we sign him we don't need to draft a center.' Besides, I'm a big "don't reach for need, stick to your board" guy. But, like everyone else, I'm sick of not having good center play. It's been six years since we even had respectable center play.

I think you summed it up very well.  This is a pivotal moment in off season.  I'm unconvinced that any of the other FA options represent a meaningful fix above a rookie.