Why Is Manning’S Replacement Such A Problem?

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

Let me put it this way

I would bet everything I own in my possession that Luck is going to be taken by the Colts. Confidently.

That is all.

Its funny that you would suggest a bet.I recently made a bet that we(colts)take cousins over luck(top of R3).I'm equally confident with this.

[WSO]

Its funny that you would suggest a bet.I recently made a bet that we(colts)take cousins over luck(top of R3).I'm equally confident with this.

Yes, real risky bet there considering he is projected to be a late 1st rounder at best and most likely a 2nd rounder.

[Restored]

Its funny that you would suggest a bet.I recently made a bet that we(colts)take cousins over luck(top of R3).I'm equally confident with this.

Ill take you up on that bet if you'd like. I have my paypal account in hand if your ready

OT- The reason why talking about Peyton's replacement is because people are blind and don't understand football. Peyton has 2-3 years left. If you can get a franchise QB now and prepare him for the innevitable, you have to do it. Look at the Dolphins

[WSO]

Ill take you up on that bet if you'd like. I have my paypal account in hand if your ready

OT- The reason why talking about Peyton's replacement is because people are blind and don't understand football. Peyton has 2-3 years left. If you can get a franchise QB now and prepare him for the innevitable, you have to do it. Look at the Dolphins

I would love to take up that bet as well

Any GM that takes Cousins over Luck would be fired and on top of that probably never be hired as a GM again

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

That could be, but I think there are some fans that just see the writing on the wall that Mannings career is coming to an end. Its purely a matter of father time catching up to him. When you have the chance to get a guy that is widely considered the best to come along since Elway, you simply do not pass on him when your current QB is 36 yrs. old and coming off 3 neck surgeries. Its also not just "walter reports" that say Luck is the best in a long time. Virtually every GM and scout in the game(with the exception of a couple) have said the same thing about him. You don't have to believe them if you don't want to, but im gonna listem to them over any message board poster. Any player could end up being a bust, including anybody the Colts would pick up if they traded the pick. It is not a good excuse not to pick him.

OMG...you actually made some sense with this post!KEEP-IT-UP!I'm just scared to death that we might take griffin,which would make the angels weep,including me~.Hands down,its luck over him anyday!

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

Yes, real risky bet there considering he is projected to be a late 1st rounder at best and most likely a 2nd rounder.

So maybe we take him(cousins)at 33,so what?Then i'm still right.

[Balzer40]

OMG...you actually made some sense with this post!KEEP-IT-UP!I'm just scared to death that we might take griffin,which would make the angels weep,including me~.Hands down,its luck over him anyday!

If we took RG3 instead of Luck, I would root for him to prove me wrong and become great, but I just think he is another one in a long line of gimmicky QB's that will not succeed in the NFL.

[oldunclemark]

well duh thats why they are #1 overall picks

they are ready to come in and start day 1

Actually..you are wrong..

....the No.1 pick has no God-given right to play historically

..you must be a young man.

That's something that's only happened in the last 15-20 years..

.....Luck would be bettre off if he watced fromthe sidleines the way high school ,freshman and college freshmen do...

Especially consiering who is ahead of him at his position..

[UMLBB10]

I think colt fans just dont want to face the realization that the manning era is close to being done if not done already. 3 years ago it was a good idea to find his replacement and talk about it. at that time it was miles away and seemed like a problem for the next generation. now thats it's really upon you nobody wants to face the realness of it. by bringing in his eventual replacement means the end is really near. thats not comforting to manning fans. by having the jim sorgi's of the world as the # 2 means manning is here for time to come. using a # overall pick on Luck means the end is closer than you want to realize

and i dont blame you. we had a taste of it here in NE when brady had his knee problems. rehab wasn't going well, staph infections, may need another surgery, etc. keep cassel and trade brady?

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

I would love to take up that bet as well

Any GM that takes Cousins over Luck would be fired and on top of that probably never be hired as a GM again

Didn't they say that about reggie bush/mario williams?

[oldunclemark]

I think colt fans just dont want to face the realization that the manning era is close to being done if not done already. 3 years ago it was a good idea to find his replacement and talk about it. at that time it was miles away and seemed like a problem for the next generation. now thats it's really upon you nobody wants to face the realness of it. by bringing in his eventual replacement means the end is really near. thats not comforting to manning fans. by having the jim sorgi's of the world as the # 2 means manning is here for time to come. using a # overall pick on Luck means the end is closer than you want to realize

and i dont blame you. we had a taste of it here in NE when brady had his knee problems. rehab wasn't going well, staph infections, may need another surgery, etc. keep cassel and trade brady?

The assumption is that no other good QBs will come out of college in the next 3 years...

..That's not really true, is it? What about the USC QB

[WSO]

Didn't they say that about reggie bush/mario williams?

Reggie Bush and Mario Williams were basically #1 and #2

You are saying Kirk Cousins a 2nd round pick will be taken over Andrew Luck the #1 overall pick. I've heard some crazy claims but no offense that is a very bold claim. But If the Colts do take Cousins over Luck assuming that Luck was available at the same time as Cousins.

I would congratulate you and give you all my possesions.

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

If we took RG3 instead of Luck, I would root for him to prove me wrong and become great, but I just think he is another one in a long line of gimmicky QB's that will not succeed in the NFL.

If i really really thought manning was done or had serious health issues,then i would take luck.But early reports show he's almost healed.He gives us a real shot at 3-4 more SB'S.

[The Fish]

Denial is rough huh?

[Balzer40]

The assumption is that no other good QBs will come out of college in the next 3 years...

..That's not really true, is it? What about the USC QB

The only problem with that is there is no guarantee we could get "that great QB'. This yr. there is that guarantee. We control the draft with the #1 pick. Just because there might be other good or great QB's come out over the next couple of yrs. does not mean we would ever have the chance to get them. Denver and Miami sure didn't think it would take them this long to get a good replacement for Elway and Marino.

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

Reggie Bush and Mario Williams were basically #1 and #2

You are saying Kirk Cousins a 2nd round pick will be taken over Andrew Luck the #1 overall pick. I've heard some crazy claims but no offense that is a very bold claim. But If the Colts do take Cousins over Luck assuming that Luck was available at the same time as Cousins.

I would congratulate you and give you all my possesions.

I will bookmark this post!BOY-O-BOY!When combine and proday finally arrive you'll learn that kirk has some skills!This race is closer than you think.

[JoKeR]

Didn't they say that about reggie bush/mario williams?

Its much harder to compare those 2. Your starting to talk about the opinions of media people again. When were talking about Luck, were referring to coaches and scouts. Its understandable though.

[WSO]

Actually..you are wrong..

....the No.1 pick has no God-given right to play historically

..you must be a young man.

That's something that's only happened in the last 15-20 years..

.....Luck would be bettre off if he watced fromthe sidleines the way high school ,freshman and college freshmen do...

Especially consiering who is ahead of him at his position..

Out of 18 #1 overall Qbs taken in the Super Bowl ERA

only 1 has sat in his entire first year and that was Carson Palmer so no I am not wrong. Historically all of them do play their first year.

Let me give you the names of some that started their first year

Terry Bradshaw 1970

Jim Plunkett 1971

Steve Bartkowski 1975

John Elway 1983

Vinny Testaverde 1987

Troy Aikman 1989

Jeff George 1990

Drew Bledsoe 1993

Peyton Manning 1998

Tim Couch 1999

Michael vick 2001

David Carr 2002

Eli Manning 2004

Alex Smith 2005

Jamarcus Russell 2007

Matt Stafford 2009

Sam Bradford 2010

Now out of all those (Carson Palmer not included)

How many went on to be busts? I see 3. David Carr, Jamarcus Russell, Tim Couch.

That is a pretty darn good list there. 13 SB wins as well off the top of my head.

[GoColts8818]

If i really really thought manning was done or had serious health issues,then i would take luck.But early reports show he's almost healed.He gives us a real shot at 3-4 more SB'S.

Early reports don't show this, I think it was you but it might been someone else so if it was I apoglize that said reports he was back to throwing at 85% to 90% of arm strength. Someone else then posted what was really said he was back to throwing at 85% to 90% of arm strenght for 10 to 15 yard passes. That's a major difference. Also let's say the first report was right that 10 to 15% that would need to come back is huge in the NFL.

Look I am not going to sit here and pretend to be an expert on Peyton Manning's health situation because I don't think anyone on here is all I can go on is the people who get paid to cover this stuff and most of them seem agree Manning's health is no sure bet moving forward and we probably wont know till at best a couple of months from here. What has been reported is that they are still waiting on the nervs to come back and there is no time table on that so I don't think you can say he's almost healed. I read one report from Phil B. I think that just because the fusion is set doesn't mean that's done healing either, he said based on the doctors he had talked to it really takes up to 6 to 12 more months for it to be fully healed. So there is a lot of information out there about Manning's health and while I am sure not all of it is true most of it seems to suggest there is still plunty of health questions going around Manning and if there were less either way this call on Manning would be much much easier.

With that said if Manning does come back healthy (like I am hoping for) yes he can play a few more years but Peyton Manning has always said he wants to play 16 years one more than his dad. Depending on how you look at it he's played 13 or 14 seasons depending on how you count this one. There is a real chance Manning comes back and plays two to three more years healthy and retires. That's why I've said to all the people saying Luck needs to force a trade or the people saying we should pass on Luck and trade the pick that we need to wait and see what the situation is going to be. It's too early to tell.

There are a lot of moving parts here that have to seattle down before anyone is going to be able to give a realistic guess on Manning's and the team's future going forward.

[doogansquest]

When the talk first began, it would have been a guy who costs the team pennies. This "plan" would cost us millions against the cap, and $50 mil with bonuses.

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

When the talk first began, it would have been a guy who costs the team pennies. This "plan" would cost us millions against the cap, and $50 mil with bonuses.

That's why we must go with manning and stick by our horse,even if not fully healed.He's our guy,so he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

[oldunclemark]

Out of 18 #1 overall Qbs taken in the Super Bowl ERA

only 1 has sat in his entire first year and that was Carson Palmer so no I am not wrong. Historically all of them do play their first year.

Let me give you the names of some that started their first year

Terry Bradshaw 1970

Jim Plunkett 1971

Steve Bartkowski 1975

John Elway 1983

Vinny Testaverde 1987

Troy Aikman 1989

Jeff George 1990

Drew Bledsoe 1993

Peyton Manning 1998

Tim Couch 1999

Michael vick 2001

David Carr 2002

Eli Manning 2004

Alex Smith 2005

Jamarcus Russell 2007

Matt Stafford 2009

Sam Bradford 2010

Now out of all those (Carson Palmer not included)

How many went on to be busts? I see 3. David Carr, Jamarcus Russell, Tim Couch.

That is a pretty darn good list there. 13 SB wins as well off the top of my head.

A very impressive list it is.......sarrow....I thank you for that effort..

But that wasn't the original question.....ALL No. 1 overall picks are not QBs, agreed?

And ALL do not start from opening day......which creates the Luck/Manning release.trade pick scenarios-

...USUALLY (as I know you know) the No.1 pick overall USUALLY comes to a team has a glaring need at that position.

In the best case scenario...we dont have ANY need at the QB position...

..we have glaring needs elsewhere...That's what the controversy is about..

That was my point in response to the original question....

..a response you mocked..remember :rulez:

But that is am impressive list....you spent a lot of time and effort on it !

[GoColts8818]

Out of 18 #1 overall Qbs taken in the Super Bowl ERA

only 1 has sat in his entire first year and that was Carson Palmer so no I am not wrong. Historically all of them do play their first year.

Let me give you the names of some that started their first year

Terry Bradshaw 1970

Jim Plunkett 1971

Steve Bartkowski 1975

John Elway 1983

Vinny Testaverde 1987

Troy Aikman 1989

Jeff George 1990

Drew Bledsoe 1993

Peyton Manning 1998

Tim Couch 1999

Michael vick 2001

David Carr 2002

Eli Manning 2004

Alex Smith 2005

Jamarcus Russell 2007

Matt Stafford 2009

Sam Bradford 2010

Now out of all those (Carson Palmer not included)

How many went on to be busts? I see 3. David Carr, Jamarcus Russell, Tim Couch.

That is a pretty darn good list there. 13 SB wins as well off the top of my head.

You don't think Jeff George was a bust? Also and I could be missing something here but I haven't heard of Steve Bartkowski before which tends to tell me he might have been a bust too.

With that said yes you are right most first overall picks play which I think was your main point. With that said just because every other teams have done that doesn't mean that's how the Colts have to do things. How many of those teams had a QB at the talent level of Peyton Manning on the roster when they drafted the younger kid? The Colts are in a unquie situation because while Manning is great there are real questions about his health and he is on the backside of his career even if he does finish out his contract here so you can argue the time to start to looking for his replacement is now. If you are going to replace him don't you want to replace him with the best possiable player you can? That seems to be, according to most people who get paid to know this stuff, Andrew Luck.

It's not up to the Colts to do what is right for Andrew Luck or even Peyton Manning for that matter. It's up to them to do what is right for the franchise and if they feel that is having Peyton Manning starting next year and Andrew Luck sitting then that's what you do and count on them both being Profesionals in Profesional football which Peyton has already said he will do. You could tell on Sunday the idea of Luck being here didn't thrill him but you could also tell he's first and foremost a profesional and as he said he's a team guy so if that's what the Colts decided to do he'll put up with it.

[Smitto]

Lol you are outta this world man. Andrew Luck is not #1 because of his stats. Andrew Luck is #1 because he has literally no flaws whatsoever. His biggest weakness is arm strength which is still very very good and is hardly a weakness. Also RG3 is not more accurate than Luck.

I challenge you, PLEASE find me a scouting report, article, written by someone notable stating RG3 is more accurate than Luck. Because I have not found one and accuracy is one of Luck's strongest points. You are simply voicing your opinion whereas it's pretty darn well known Andrew Luck is the most accurate passer in this draft.

Vick was incredibly athletic coming out of college as well with a strong arm. How did that turn out?

Jamarcus Russell had one of the strongest arms of any prospect ever and how did that turn out?

You know a lot of people thought Ryan Leaf was a better prospect than Peyton Manning too!

We all have our own opinions, but its common sense numbers dont lie.. and those numbers may not be very different but RGIII is the better QB.... RGIII is not michael vick, he's not young, hes not some scrambling first QB, he's a pocket passer whos very athletic... i can gurantee you if ppl were gassing about Matt Barkley you probably would be saying matt barkley as well.

[WSO]

You don't think Jeff George was a bust? Also and I could be missing something here but I haven't heard of Steve Bartkowski before which tends to tell me he might have been a bust too.

With that said yes you are right most first overall picks play which I think was your main point. With that said just because every other teams have done that doesn't mean that's how the Colts have to do things. How many of those teams had a QB at the talent level of Peyton Manning on the roster when they drafted the younger kid? The Colts are in a unquie situation because while Manning is great there are real questions about his health and he is on the backside of his career even if he does finish out his contract here so you can argue the time to start to looking for his replacement is now. If you are going to replace him don't you want to replace him with the best possiable player you can? That seems to be, according to most people who get paid to know this stuff, Andrew Luck.

It's not up to the Colts to do what is right for Andrew Luck or even Peyton Manning for that matter. It's up to them to do what is right for the franchise and if they feel that is having Peyton Manning starting next year and Andrew Luck sitting then that's what you do and count on them both being Profesionals in Profesional football which Peyton has already said he will do. You could tell on Sunday the idea of Luck being here didn't thrill him but you could also tell he's first and foremost a profesional and as he said he's a team guy so if that's what the Colts decided to do he'll put up with it.

Jeff George was no pro bowler or SB winner but surely was not a bust. He had a solid career, sort of like Testaverde but nothing great.

Bartowski was a pro bowl quarterback, Falcons all time passing leader and had his number retired.

An injured Manning despite his previous accomplishments does not justify NOT taking a quarterback overall #1. That is the point. It also does not justify saying the Colts don't have to. That argument can be made for ANYTHING.

Also what did you expect Luck to sit there and say? "I dont want to sit and play for a rebuilding team." The guy has class, of course he is going to do and say whats right for the media. Your argument sounds more like "hey we don't know whats going to happen so stop talking about it!"

[Smitto]

Until you can get on here and post some of your credentials of being a NFL talent evaluator, could you please stop stating your opinion as fact. Afterall, you were the one here earlier this season saying how good Painter was and how he will be a good QB in the NFL. That don't make me have much confidence in your evaluation skills.

I never stated that as a fact, get it right. Yes i did say painter is a good QB and with time he probably could be, every QB struggles in his first season its expected.. but im not gonna make this about him.. im stating my opinion if you dont like it well thats not my problem.

[WSO]

We all have our own opinions, but its common sense numbers dont lie.. and those numbers may not be very different but RGIII is the better QB.... RGIII is not michael vick, he's not young, hes not some scrambling first QB, he's a pocket passer whos very athletic... i can gurantee you if ppl were gassing about Matt Barkley you probably would be saying matt barkley as well.

Nothing in there says anything about Luck being less accurate. Only that RG3 has a more accurate deep ball which is true because like I said, Lucks arm strength is not out of this world great.

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/id/7419742/robert-griffin-iii-not-andrew-luck-right-pick-indianapolis-colts

Numbers don't matter for the thousandth time. Case Keenum makes RG3's numbers look average yet no one is talking about Case Keenum. Luck is not #1 overall because of his numbers. It's because he is the complete package with very few flaws.

[ruksak]

If we took RG3 instead of Luck, I would root for him to prove me wrong and become great, but I just think he is another one in a long line of gimmicky QB's that will not succeed in the NFL.

I implore you all to cease and desist with calling Griffin "RG3". It's not cool, it's not neat....its frickin stupid.

[GoColts8818]

Jeff George was no pro bowler or SB winner but surely was not a bust. He had a solid career, sort of like Testaverde but nothing great.

Bartowski was a pro bowl quarterback, Falcons all time passing leader and had his number retired.

An injured Manning despite his previous accomplishments does not justify NOT taking a quarterback overall #1. That is the point. It also does not justify saying the Colts don't have to. That argument can be made for ANYTHING.

Also what did you expect Luck to sit there and say? "I dont want to sit and play for a rebuilding team." The guy has class, of course he is going to do and say whats right. Your argument sounds more like "hey we don't know whats going to happen so stop talking about it!"

He was drafted to do for our franchise what Peyton Manning did for it, heck it was because of how bad George was that set us up to get Peyton Manning in the first place. Jeff George was a bust.

Got ya I seem to be mistaken about Bartkowski. Like I said I hadn't heard of him.

I didn't bring up anything Luck said...I brought up what Peyton Manning said.

[WSO]

A very impressive list it is.......sarrow....I thank you for that effort..

But that wasn't the original question.....ALL No. 1 overall picks are not QBs, agreed?

And ALL do not start from opening day......which creates the Luck/Manning release.trade pick scenarios-

...USUALLY (as I know you know) the No.1 pick overall USUALLY comes to a team has a glaring need at that position.

In the best case scenario...we dont have ANY need at the QB position...

..we have glaring needs elsewhere...That's what the controversy is about..

That was my point in response to the original question....

..a response you mocked..remember :rulez:

But that is am impressive list....you spent a lot of time and effort on it !

Are you really saying we don't have any need at the QB position? Really?

[oldunclemark]

I think Luck coming to Indianapolis is a no-win proposition for the young man and he knows it

He either sits behind Manning...or he replaces him with a weak and rebuilding offense..

......in front of fans who adored the guy he replaced....and will turn on him if he loses games...

How can Luck win in a situation like that?

[GoColts8818]

I implore you all to cease and desist with calling Griffin "RG3". It's not cool, it's not neat....its frickin stupid.

I am sad to say I think that nickname is going to stick. Sorry Ruksak.

[WSO]

He was drafted to do for our franchise what Peyton Manning did for it, heck it was because of how bad George was that set us up to get Peyton Manning in the first place. Jeff George was a bust.

Got ya I seem to be mistaken about Bartkowski. Like I said I hadn't heard of him.

I didn't bring up anything Luck said...I brought up what Peyton Manning said.

my fault I thought you meant the Luck postgame interview

he basically said the same thing but Luck didn't look thrilled either lol! Very similar reaction to Manning.

If you want you can call George a bust but when I look at George and compare him to someone like Jamarcus Russell or David Carr, doesn't seem so bad after all.

[ruksak]

I am sad to say I think that nickname is going to stick. Sorry Ruksak.

Grrrrrr........

Can we call Luck AL1?

[oldunclemark]

Are you really saying we don't have any need at the QB position? Really?

Yes.

In the best case scenario, we dont have any need at the QB position.

Manning threw for 4,700 yards in 2010 and led us to the playoffs...

In the best case scenario (we still have much the same team), he does that again in 2012..

..and we have no need at the QB position.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

[Smitto]

Nothing in there says anything about Luck being less accurate. Only that RG3 has a more accurate deep ball which is true because like I said, Lucks arm strength is not out of this world great.

http://espn.go.com/e...ianapolis-colts

Numbers don't matter for the thousandth time. Case Keenum makes RG3's numbers look average yet no one is talking about Case Keenum. Luck is not #1 overall because of his numbers. It's because he is the complete package with very few flaws.

Numbers do matter man lol my gosh... Case keenum could be a Jem when he gets to the Pros you dont know that.. he just isnt getting the hype RGIII or Luck is getting... as for accuracy he's still more accurate, you cant just leave out the deep ball accuracy.

[UMLBB10]

Yes.

In the best case scenario, we dont have any need at the QB position.

Manning threw for 4,700 yards in 2010 and led us to the playoffs...

In the best case scenario (we still have much the same team), he does that again in 2012..

..and we have no need at the QB position.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

the very definition of denial

i guess we'll just ignore the part where he had offseason surgery to repair nerve damage in his neck, the nerve didnt respond so he had further procedures, which did not heal in time for the 2011 season so he missed the entire year. the team went 2-14. recent reports say he can throw the ball 30 yards right now

but besides that, how'd you like the play Mrs. Lincoln?

[WSO]

Yes.

In the best case scenario, we dont have any need at the QB position.

Manning threw for 4,700 yards in 2010 and led us to the playoffs...

In the best case scenario (we still have much the same team), he does that again in 2012..

..and we have no need at the QB position.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

C'mon Mark. As I type this Manning is still not 100% healthy, 3 neck surgeries, hasn't played football in what, 5 months?

Even if he comes back, having a backup QB would be a good idea incase something happens to Manning or his production is affected right?

[Gonzo]

James was still the safer choice as Williams has baby sized hands.

Luck is the safer pick over RG3 because RG3 somewhat of a project, shorter, tends to run under pressure more, less cerebral, more likely to get injured, tends to hold onto the ball too long, isn't as good at ball placement when throwing.

I definitely agree that Luck is the better prospect and safer pick given what information is available Just making the point that in the end we as fans don't know who personnel people are really drooling over until it's time to make the picks.

Polian not only passed on the supposedly better prospect (Williams) but he didn't bother trading down to do so. That really spoke volumes to James' true value. If/when the Colts take Luck it'll say alot about his true value as well.

[WSO]

Numbers do matter man lol my gosh... Case keenum could be a Jem when he gets to the Pros you dont know that.. he just isnt getting the hype RGIII or Luck is getting... as for accuracy he's still more accurate, you cant just leave out the deep ball accuracy.

It's not hype, its evaluation. Keenum has all the numbers but isn't a top pick because he lacks mechanics,quick release and so forth. Players are not top picks because of hype, its because they are darn good. It doesn't mean they have to have elite numbers either. Keenum doesn't need hype, he lacks certain skills.

RG3 is not more accurate than Luck. If so what kind of evidence do you have to prove that? Numbers? Throwing the deep ball better doesn't mean you're more accurate.