Brady Wins, Deflategate Suspension Nullified

[James Harden]

Nothing on Brady. I respect the man. He is a winner although the Pats are labeled Cheaters. Goodell is a joke. We need a new Commissioner who doesn't change NFL rules every season. 

[SilentHill]

Crazy, Gramz, and others keep ignoring this important point.

 

Too bad it's an irrelevant point, you don't need it per the CBA. The judge's ruling was wrong and it proves he is incompetent at his position.

[our_dbs_rock]

Two things:

1. Bountygate happened. We all know it did.

2. Aaron Hernandez knows your murder claim is false.

 

1.  There is about as much evidence for bounty as deflate.

 

2. Ray Lewis disagrees

[ViriLudant]

^^^ This.

Also, as to the Bolded, you are so right. After spending the past 5 days at Hospice, and saying final goodbyes at 1:50 a.m. today, it does put real life into perspective.

When I finally got back home today, a little past 11, I decided to log on here to take my mind off of everything my family has been through this week.

Time for me to take a long needed nap.

My deepest, sincerest condolences.

I must admit that I was brought crashing to the earth 10 seconds after hearing about Brady's hearing .

I was scrolling through Facebook, look at what others are saying, and I saw the photographs of the toddler on the beach. As a father of a toddler, that completely devastated me, and reduced me to tears. There is so much more important things in life than sports, most importantly family.

[Superman]

Yes, the CBA gives the commissioner the authority to act in such matters .  . .  but . . .

 

Labor laws dictate and control the manner in which one can wield said powers within the four corners of a CBA

 

Labor laws trump any CBA actions when there is conflict between labor laws and a clause in a CBA (on its face) or in a manner in which the clause is applied (as applied). .   The problem in the instant case is the latter.

 

The NFL messed up on process. Overturn it on that, and really, as other judges have done, including Doty, tell them to go back and do it right. 

 

What I disagree with is Berman's interpretation of the seriousness of the offense being a factor in his decision. That's really not up to him.

 

And the bigger factor here is that it has become abundantly clear that the NFLPA doesn't have to respect the CBA that they agreed to. Whenever they dislike the way the NFL does something, they can go to the courts who will rule independent of the CBA, and then act like they are fighting for the CBA. 'We'll agree to this CBA, but we're going to challenge its merits in court every chance we get.' Smart of them. Not good for the NFL. See Greg Hardy's pending appeal.

[ViriLudant]

1. There is about as much evidence for bounty and deflate.

2. Ray Lewis disagrees

Untrue. Players admitted to contributing money to the bounties.

[bababooey]

Uh.

I didn't call you crazy.

I said "Crazy," Gramz"

As in, Crazy Colt and Gramz, who both said the same thing.

And sorry, read Berman's ruling. He clearly stated that Brady was not shown to be involved .

You keep missing the point that text messages exist and that the ballboys never answered a single question upon revelation of the nickname. So correct, a person who doesn't know football very well can assume that they acted on their own when they stole the balls after they were approved. Unfortunately Brady and the Pats did not allow for the interviews required after Wells saw them say they weren't going to ESPN.

[our_dbs_rock]

Untrue. Players admitted to contributing money to the bounties.

 

And the patriots agreed to pay a million dollars.....

[ViriLudant]

Too bad it's an irrelevant point, you don't need it per the CBA. The judge's ruling was wrong and it proves he is incompetent at his position.

Clearly you didn't read the ruling.

Oh, and virtually everyone nationally commenting on this, from lawyers to union leaders to NFL players, all disagree with you.

[dgambill]

Do you think it is over? I sure hope so. I think many people are tired of hearing and reading about this. I don't like the decision and it does not change my mind about Brady's involvement in deflating footballs; however, it is what it is. If this means an end to Deflategate, I am pleased.

I wonder if McNally and Jastremski will get their jobs back...

No...its getting appealed but by the time it gets sorted out Brady will probably be retired. We've seen that happen before. I agree with your accessment...I think everyone understands what happened whether they want to admit it or not. I also think the NFL totally went over board with this. Fine him and be done...it didn't affect anything happening on the football field. I think the other teams were sick of the Pats messing around and wanted them held accountable. When you go thumbing your nose up at people about knowing the rules etc...then get caught breaking them well I can't imagine people were going to be happy (people being owners). The only positive that the Pats had is that people hate Roger more than they hate them. Eventually it will get sorted out but for what matters it will get brought up before the first game....then again in week 6 but that will likely be it.

 

Yeah they stay fired. They did it....but worse than that they had a lot of unflattering things to say about Brady so I can't imagine he would want to work with them still. My question is do they write a tell all book or have a made for TV movie on the lifetime network. Honestly they stand to make a lot of money if they come out and tell what happened. It will be interesting to see if they come out with something down the line. I too feel that some things will continue to trickle out about this whole ordeal. All in all both sides look bad...and it all could have been avoided too.

[our_dbs_rock]

Clearly you didn't read the ruling.

Oh, and virtually everyone nationally commenting on this, from lawyers to union leaders to NFL players, all disagree with you.

 

Not really sure how those three parties agree make it right.  It benefits all of them.

[southwest1]

Glad this is over. Hopefully we can talk about real football now. Everyone has made up their mind on whether Brady was involved in this etc but suspending him 4 games was ridiculous. It didn't affect the ball game at all. IMO the cover up was the bigger story but the making this into a huge story was just plain dumb. That said it kept the NFL in the news all summer so even bad publicity is still better than no publicity. In the end this should have been a fine. I do think they altered the balls....and I'm sure Brady was aware of that....but I don't see much difference from other teams that have done the same. My issues were with the cover up and lying....but then the NFL had its issues on this too. Just both sides looked really bad. Hopefully we get back to watching some great football and having #12 on the field is best for everyone....not having one of the best players in the history of the game playing is no way a positive for the league.

Please stop making the argument that deflated footballs didn't affect the outcome of the AFC Championship game. Thank you. Yes, you're right dgb it didn't. It's like introducing an auxiliary element totally irrelevant to the infraction at hand. Goodwell will get backlash & blowback from the owners on this decision no doubt. I'm with you on just kickoff the regular season though 100%

 

Brady failed to cooperate with an active investigation & Goodell got blinded by absolute power that grossly clouded his judgment. Neither side is unscathed here as you correctly suggest. Roger when the other side offers you a deal take it. 

[Superman]

I remember reading you mention that and I reluctantly had to agree with you. It became most apparent when the NFL's argument was boiling down to Goodell has the power and he has the power to appeal arbitration and the courts don't have the power to overturn what he feels is in the best interest of the NFL. That and not having the inclination to strike a deal with the NFLPA let me to believe the NFL was on shaky ground.

 

I don't think they should have agreed to a deal. I think it's ultimately best that the court ruled on process. The NFL deserves to have its hand slapped for messing up the appeal. 

 

I think the NFL should appeal Berman's decision, though, on the grounds of the courts right to overrule the discretion of the commissioner in determining the nature of the offense and whether the accused party is guilty or not. I don't think it's the courts place to say 'I don't think Brady is proved guilty,' especially when stating a lack of evidence, when the destruction or withholding of evidence is a key factor. 

[Superman]

I read through the link on Berman's explanation of why he vacated the 4 games. To be honest I'm very surprised after reading that . he came to the decision he did. He mentions Bret Favre , which Imo is a completely different issue. He seemed to weigh his decision very heavily on the issue of Tom Brady not being told he could suffer big consequences for lying or not co operating. He then "asks" for proof that Brady was aware of what went on. He says something like " the punishment is too severe for a player knowing someone else in the organization did something bad. 

 

Then there is the issue you bring up .. the NFL did mess up procedure . This part I have no issue with . I'm just surprised that what I have above appeared to weigh heavily in his decision. Not to cause a stink or look like sour grapes , but I think this judge bought into the idea that it's no big deal to sneak balls into a bathroom ad deflate them. IMO , this is a pretty egregious offense . But cudo's to Brady for sticking to the denial and beating it.

 

Yup. I think the judge's interpretation of the nature of the offense is way off.

[our_dbs_rock]

No...its getting appealed but by the time it gets sorted out Brady will probably be retired. We've seen that happen before. I agree with your accessment...I think everyone understands what happened whether they want to admit it or not. I also think the NFL totally went over board with this. Fine him and be done...it didn't affect anything happening on the football field. I think the other teams were sick of the Pats messing around and wanted them held accountable. When you go thumbing your nose up at people about knowing the rules etc...then get caught breaking them well I can't imagine people were going to be happy (people being owners). The only positive that the Pats had is that people hate Roger more than they hate them. Eventually it will get sorted out but for what matters it will get brought up before the first game....then again in week 6 but that will likely be it.

 

Yeah they stay fired. They did it....but worse than that they had a lot of unflattering things to say about Brady so I can't imagine he would want to work with them still. My question is do they write a tell all book or have a made for TV movie on the lifetime network. Honestly they stand to make a lot of money if they come out and tell what happened. It will be interesting to see if they come out with something down the line. I too feel that some things will continue to trickle out about this whole ordeal. All in all both sides look bad...and it all could have been avoided too.

 

I am really interested on this part, it might be a few years down the road but it will be interesting.  Although a NDA or paying them to keep quite will complicate things. 

[bababooey]

Yup. I think the judge's interpretation of the nature of the offense is way off.

Agreed, steroids could make you hit a game winning home run. A deflated football can make you not fumble it in a close game you won a week before. Can change the game.

[our_dbs_rock]

Please stop making the argument that deflated footballs didn't affect the outcome of the AFC Championship game. Thank you. Yes, you're right dgb it didn't. It's like introducing an auxiliary element totally irrelevant to the infraction at hand. Goodwell will get backlash & blowback from the owners on this decision no doubt. I'm with you on just kickoff the regular season though 100%

 

Brady failed to cooperate with an active investigation & Goodell got blinded by absolute power that grossly clouded his judgment. Neither side is unscathed here as you correctly suggest. Roger when the other side offers you a deal take it. 

 

I think that is a issue Goddell had to think about, if they tampered with the ball pressure it most likely had no effect in THAT game but what about others.

[amfootball]

Agreed, steroids could make you hit a game winning home run. A deflated football can make you not fumble it in a close game you won a week before. Can change the game.

The issue is the NFL never before in its history ever compared ball tampering to PEDs and has never punished beyond a fine for the team. It is this colossal jump in reasoning that Berman is attacking as the PED is very specific detailed which Berman notes in his ruling. And remember Brady is not even being accused of actually doing the deflation but just being aware. A quantum leap as Berman put it.

[Superman]

Yep that is what has been the issue with all these cases - not Roger's power but the process. Berman never said that Roger could not hear the appeal and issue discipline but found fault in the process of the appeal as well as the fact that Brady was never made aware of the discipline for his offense, this is the same as Peterson.

 

That's not accurate. Berman undermined Goodell's authority by basically saying 'I don't think this is as serious as the NFL says it is.' 

 

It doesn't really matter whether Goodell can hear the appeal or not. If the judge is going to use his discretion regarding the merits of the case, then he can overturn the decision regardless of who issued and/or upheld it from the NFL. 

[dgambill]

Please stop making the argument that deflated footballs didn't affect the outcome of the AFC Championship game. Thank you. Yes, you're right dgb it didn't. It's like introducing an auxiliary element totally irrelevant to the infraction at hand. Goodwell will get backlash & blowback from the owners on this decision no doubt. I'm with you on just kickoff the regular season though 100%

 

Brady failed to cooperate with an active investigation & Goodell got blinded by absolute power that grossly clouded his judgment. Neither side is unscathed here as you correctly suggest. Roger when the other side offers you a deal take it. 

If I was Goodell I would have fined Brady for his role in the deflating and then suspended him for not cooperating with the investigation. Then Tom to get off with a suspension would had to have agreed he was involved. To me this was no different than any other team messing with the balls outside the rules. The real issue imo was the cover up/lying. I never understood the hoopla of this whole thing. I don't like cheating or trying to skirt the rules and thus I understand the organization getting held accountable but to me you got to be consistant with your penalties...if its a fine for one player it should be for another. I also can't wait for football....and football wouldn't be as good without Tom on the field. He is an incredible player and I enjoy watching him play....I think Jimmy could be good someday too but lets be real...Pittsburgh vs NE without Tom vs Ben wouldn't be nearly as quality entertainment.

[yosoyfiesta]

Disgusting..... gets away with it scott-free....... he destroyed his phone and refused to co-operate... what other evidence was required?!.....

Maybe evidence that an actual "crime" was committed rather than a finding that 0.2 psi was missing from the balls when there was a 0.4 psi variance between the 2 guages that may have been used. But by all means, continue the witch hunt over that 0.2 psi.

[dgambill]

I am really interested on this part, it might be a few years down the road but it will be interesting.  Although a NDA or paying them to keep quite will complicate things. 

I doubt they were forced to sign one of those...if they were that would be unprecidented. How do you force someone to sign an NDA when your firing them anyways?

[amfootball]

That's not accurate. Berman undermined Goodell's authority by basically saying 'I don't think this is as serious as the NFL says it is.' 

 

It doesn't really matter whether Goodell can hear the appeal or not. If the judge is going to use his discretion regarding the merits of the case, then he can overturn the decision regardless of who issued and/or upheld it from the NFL. 

As a judge he has to consider the merits of the case though. He can't just rule blind on process without understanding the facts which led to the process. And in the end he ruled on process anyways as the NFL royally messed that up.

[Old Colt]

Maybe Goodell should of fined Brady 100k, no?   You know kind of like the 50K fine the NFL gave Farve.  Or the no suspension no fine that was imposed on the Saints players after it was reversed on appeal. 

Let's see, how many games was the Saints Coach, head coach, Payton, suspended for being Generally aware of what was going on?   A WHOLE SEASON,... Brady needs to own up, he destroyed his phone, he knew it was involved in the matter.  If he was free and clear, honest, ( I hesitate to use that word and Brady in the same sentence) then he should have run with his phone to prove it... in fact they didn't want his phone, only the relevant texts as picked out by his attorney and himself.  IF you are innocent, why do you act so guilty...

[Coltsman1788]

This doesn't mean that Brady was innocent. Only that the NFL failed in court. The League will appeal so this still technically isn't over. Although I doubt the decision will be reversed.

[our_dbs_rock]

I doubt they were forced to sign one of those...if they were that would be unprecidented. How do you force someone to sign an NDA when your firing them anyways?

 

Could have been part of a termination settlement.

[Old Colt]

WELLS SAID THAT HE DIDN'T WANT BRADY'S PHONE.

Why do so many people fail to accept this?

 

It was GOODELL, months after the fact, that decided to punish Brady for that.

 

You know, Goodell, that man that MOST of you ripped apart for fumbling the Ray Rice situation, but somehow he's a champion of virtue now.

 

And, by the way, the NFL was given the phones of all Patriot employees that were not players, since the players were part of the union.

 

So sorry, the NFL had those texts. 

They wanted the texts that were relevant, from the phone, as chosen by Brady and his attorney.  If he is innocent then that was a simple request.  it isn't his direction to the ball boys to deflate the balls that is being tried, it is his lack of cooperation, smashing your phone, not answering what is asked for by a investigation that your Union and you Mr. Pretty Boy Brady signed of on is not the act of an innocent man (or Pretty boy either). 

[amfootball]

Wow. The celebratory mood here is amazing right now. The game tonight should be awesome even for preseason.

[SilentHill]

Clearly you didn't read the ruling.

Oh, and virtually everyone nationally commenting on this, from lawyers to union leaders to NFL players, all disagree with you.

 

That's OK, because it's their opinion.

[ricker182]

Maybe evidence that an actual "crime" was committed rather than a finding that 0.2 psi was missing from the balls when there was a 0.4 psi variance between the 2 guages that may have been used. But by all means, continue the witch hunt over that 0.2 psi.

This was a labor case.

Had nothing to do with innocent or guilty.

[yosoyfiesta]

Brady is a joke, he deserved punishment for not cooperating....smashing his phone when he knew it was critical in this case....not the sign of a truthful man, but that of a spoiled child.  Court was wrong, hopefully NFL will appeal and they subpoena both Brady's info and those text from the club house folks involved.  CBA is effectively void, this will hurt the players long term and they can thank Brady!  The deflator....lol.... weight loss....what a joke

NFL had the equipment guys phones. Anything Brady sent to them, they had access to, (Nothing). They had Belichick's phone. (nothing from Tom there). They had access to thousands of Tom's emails. Not a word about deflation. Who else do you think Tom was texting about taking 0 - 0.2 psi out of footballs before a game?

[yosoyfiesta]

This was a labor case.

Had nothing to do with innocent or guilty.

I understand that. The person I responded to did not.

[bababooey]

I doubt they were forced to sign one of those...if they were that would be unprecidented. How do you force someone to sign an NDA when your firing them anyways?

By giving them a very nice severance package.

[dgambill]

Could have been part of a termination settlement.

I would be VERY surprised by that. No way NE paid them as much as they would stand to gain from writing a tell all or making the rounds on all the news organizations etc. If they did I'm sure that would have been brought up...the kind of money it would have taken to pay those guys off would have to be almost as big as the fine NE paid. That kind of money doesn't go untraced.

[lollygagger8]

Except that my post is 100% correct.  The Judge himself said that there was no proof.

But then again, what should I expect from those who don't read the court documents.

 

INCORRECT. TRY ACTUALLY READING FOR A CHANGE. 

 

 

Judge wasn't ruling on Little Tommie's "claimed" innocence. The Judge was throwing it out based on not giving enough information on the disciplinary actions/procedures. 

[dgambill]

Wow. The celebratory mood here is amazing right now. The game tonight should be awesome even for preseason.

Is there really anything worth celebrating here. I'm happy Tom gets on the field to play because I thought the suspension was harsh but neither he nor Goodell came out of this looking good. I mean I love to watch him play the game but I have to admit I lost some respect for the guy in how he handled this whole thing. To me this is like the day after a horrible break up...nobody wins but at least its over and everyone can move on with their lives.

[amfootball]

INCORRECT. TRY ACTUALLY READING FOR A CHANGE. 

 

 

Judge wasn't ruling on Little Tommie's "claimed" innocence. The Judge was throwing it out based on not giving enough information on the disciplinary actions/procedures. 

Berman's ruling was on process but it was clear to anyone who listening to or read the court hearings that he did not find any evidence of Brady's guilt and Daniel Nash concurred with him.

[amfootball]

Is there really anything worth celebrating here. I'm happy Tom gets on the field to play because I thought the suspension was harsh but neither he nor Goodell came out of this looking good. I mean I love to watch him play the game but I have to admit I lost some respect for the guy in how he handled this whole thing. To me this is like the day after a horrible break up...nobody wins but at least its over and everyone can move on with their lives.

Yes. First, Brady gets to play!  To be honest, my respect for Brady has gone up ten fold after this victory. He could have bowed down months ago like Kraft did but he maintained his innocence, kept quiet other than his one FB post after the appeal verdict and won the case which many said would be the equivalent of him completing a Hail Mary in the last seconds of a game giving how much appeals are given deference in the fed court.

In addition, he won in the NFL's choosing of the court venue and they got their hat handed to them. So yeah, lots of celebrating after a very long 8 months ...

[Narcosys]

Is it over? Is it really, truly, over?

[B~Town]

I was reading a article yesterday that implied during an appeal from either side Brady could be put on the exempt list until the matter is cleared up . Anyone with knowledge of how that works care to break down the situation .