Congrads To Freeney, But...

[manningstheman]

Congrads to Freeney for making some extra cash this year for making the Pro-bowl. He gets a nice trip to Hawaii, and gets to play around with all his NFL buddies. Fine, thats great. He doesnt deserve it. He has had a horrible year. Ok, he has 7.5 sacks. Thats not very good for an elite DE. Oh, and he has a whopping 18 tackles. Thats right, 18 tackles. Mathis is having an off year, but he has 8.5 sacks and 41 tackles at least. Freeney has become so one deminsional. He is only in the game to rush the QB anymore. I think Bethea had a heck of a year. Angerer should have also had a good look. This thing has always been a popularity contest, I understand. Its just to bad to see others players who had a good year not get the recognition they deserve.

[CR91]

just goes to show you pro bowl is a joke and you only go because of your rep

[JoKeR]

Its a popularity contest and most fans don't really know what Freeney's stats are. They just see the name.

[21isSuperman]

coltsrule and JoKeR said all that needs to be said

[Andy]

Like you said, they're always popularity contests. I love Troy, but he's having an off year. I think Yeremiah Bell and Tyvon Branch deserved trips over Troy, imo.

To Dwight's defense, the AFC has not the greatest defensive ends, compared to the NFC. I mean the best guys in the AFC this year are Andre Carter and Elvis Dumervil. Robert Mathis should have gone instead of Freeney.

I'm not too upset, because Dwight's one of my favourite players, but I can see why a lot of people disagree with the choice.

[Coltssouth]

I think I heard them say during the broadcast that the list are made up the previous year? Does anyone else remember that?

[Andy]

I think I heard them say during the broadcast that the list are made up the previous year? Does anyone else remember that?

It can't be. How can they predict that Andre Carter, AJ Green, Jason Pierre Paul, Jonathan Joseph, Dashon Goldston, Carlos Rogers, and Patrick Peterson (punt returner) would be on the list. They would have to be psychics. It's based off the voting by the fans, but a lot of casual fans vote and those fans (no offense) don't really know the underrated players too well, so they just vote for the big names. It's a popularity contest and some players who had great years get it.

[Coltssouth]

Guess I misunderstood the topic they were discussing.

[ReMeDy]

Pat McAfee didn't make the list either. Shame too. I guess people did not know he had the best hangtime in the league and was a tackling juggernaut .

[Andy]

Pat McAfee didn't make the list either. Shame too. I guess people did not know he had the best hangtime in the league and was a tackling juggernaut .

I love Pat and he had an amazing season, but Shane Lechler had a season for the ages. Averaged the most yards per punt and had an 80 yard punt vs Hester. He's just too good. If Pat were in the NFC, he could have gotten in.

[Captain Americolt]

Shane Lechler is the Calvin Johnson of Punters. A freak. An 80 yard punt? In the air? Crazy

[Happy2BeHere]

I punt 80+ yards all the time...of course I lie often too but don't let that let it interfere here.

[GoColts8818]

Congrads to Freeney for making some extra cash this year for making the Pro-bowl. He gets a nice trip to Hawaii, and gets to play around with all his NFL buddies. Fine, thats great. He doesnt deserve it. He has had a horrible year. Ok, he has 7.5 sacks. Thats not very good for an elite DE. Oh, and he has a whopping 18 tackles. Thats right, 18 tackles. Mathis is having an off year, but he has 8.5 sacks and 41 tackles at least. Freeney has become so one deminsional. He is only in the game to rush the QB anymore. I think Bethea had a heck of a year. Angerer should have also had a good look. This thing has always been a popularity contest, I understand. Its just to bad to see others players who had a good year not get the recognition they deserve.

It hasn't been his best season by far or even close to what we expect out of him but it hasn't been horrible either. Probably not a pro-bowl worthy year but Freeney isn't the first and wont be the last player to be voted to the pro-bowl when he didn't really deserve to go. I am not worried about the number of tackles, we don't pay Freeney to make tackles we pay him to get sacks and while the 7.5 is about 2.5 lower than where it should be it's still not a horriable year.

Frankly I think Saturday should have gotten some pro-bowl love this year, he had one of the better years in his career. Oh well probably makes up for last year when he didn't really deserve to go. Also Conner deserved as much of a sniff as Angerer did but both are pretty young and it's hard to make the pro-bowl that young on a losing team. They always say it takes you 3 years to finally get to the pro-bowl after you should have gone and you stay 3 three years past when you should have stopped going. Bethea just doesn't get respect outside of Indianapolis and because of his nature that's probably the way it will stay. McAfee is a victum on being a really good player but in the same conference as probably the best punter in football in the Raiders guy and since they only take one punter it's going to be hard to unseed him.

Mathis is puzzling one, if Freeney went you would think Mathis should have gone oh well just boils down to he's not as big of a name as Freeney and when you are 2-13 one Pro-Bowler is about right.

[IndyTrav]

... I am not worried about the number of tackles, we don't pay Freeney to make tackles we pay him to get sacks and while the 7.5 is about 2.5 lower than where it should be it's still not a horriable year.......

Seriously?!? He was paid $11+mill this year, and counted $16+mill against the cap. Next year it will be more. And he's not getting paid to make tackles?!?!?!?!

How would that work with any other player other than Dwight "Spin myself outta play" Freeney?!?!

[Susie Q]

Seriously?!? He was paid $11+mill this year, and counted $16+mill against the cap. Next year it will be more. And he's not getting paid to make tackles?!?!?!?!

How would that work with any other player other than Dwight "Spin myself outta play" Freeney?!?!

Did someone get out of bed on the wrong side this morning ?

[IndyTrav]

Did someone get out of bed on the wrong side this morning ?

No way Jose, we are creeping into my afternoon come 9am.

It's just crazy to me that someone's "not paid to tackle".

[imacoltfan]

Who discusses the Pro Bowl?

[Jaric]

I am not worried about the number of tackles, we don't pay Freeney to make tackles

If he plays defense, we're paying him to make tackles.

Now, different positions are going to have more tackles than others. That's just how things go, but part of his job as a defensive players is to occasionally tackle the guy with the ball, even if that guy happens to not be the QB.

[Jaric]

Who discusses the Pro Bowl?

Fans of teams who aren't making the playoffs?

[imacoltfan]

Sorry..,.Pro Bowl is irrelevant.

[husker61]

Fans of teams who aren't making the playoffs?

LOL!

that's also why there are so many crazy draft trades before anyone even knows there teams will pick or who is coming out.

[That Guy]

Most of the people with time to vote on the probowl, are just trying to recreate the teams they created in Madden. That's why high-profile players get voted in over harder working players, but fan voting isn't the only thing that gets players in. I'm pretty sure coaches and players get a vote for who gets in, and that their vote weighs equally with the fan votes.

Players get voted in based by:

1/3 fan vote

1/3 coach vote

1/3 player vote

If Dwight earned enough respect to get in with coach and player votes, then he DESERVES IT. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise Dwight!

[husker61]

Seriously?!? He was paid $11+mill this year, and counted $16+mill against the cap. Next year it will be more. And he's not getting paid to make tackles?!?!?!?!

How would that work with any other player other than Dwight "Spin myself outta play" Freeney?!?!

i eluded to the same thing in another thread a couple days ago. i really think the colts have to renegotiate his deal or cut him. take the 5 million hit but save 14.5 million. while he is a top pass rusher, that is all he is now. no other team is going to pay him any where close tho what he is due next year from the colts.

[braveheartcolt]

Sorry..,.Pro Bowl is irrelevant.

To paraphrase you; 'why discuss the Pro-bowl, it's irrelevant'. Yet you are on here discussing it. You've got me confused.

Let Freeney enjoy his day in the sunshine. I'm sure he'll be more effective with better coaching staff next year. And perhaps he and Robert will get more help through the middle.

[imacoltfan]

That's not paraphrasing. And I didn't discuss the Pro Bowl. I asked a question and then opined after i received my answer.

Froma purely thesis point of view discussion would have been, "The AFC has no shot because their rigght defensive end did not desreve to make the Pro Bowl and is truly benefiting from past years performance, in what has become a popularity contest."

Hoped I cleared up the confusion.

Thanks for playing.

[WSO]

That's a lot of money for only 7.5 sacks and 18 tackles. . .granted the stats don't tell everything such as how efficient he was in just pressuring the QB.

[Corndog]

Seriously?!? He was paid $11+mill this year, and counted $16+mill against the cap. Next year it will be more. And he's not getting paid to make tackles?!?!?!?!

How would that work with any other player other than Dwight "Spin myself outta play" Freeney?!?!

And the Colts wonder why they don't have money for quality players. If Freeney got released this year I wouldn't cry myself to sleep. Jamal Anderson seemed to do pretty well when he replaced Freeney and Mathis is clearly the better of the two DEs. Freeney is extremely one dimensional and isn't worth the money at all. While Mathis can actually stop runs and force fumbles.

[Case]

It can't be. How can they predict that Andre Carter, AJ Green, Jason Pierre Paul, Jonathan Joseph, Dashon Goldston, Carlos Rogers, and Patrick Peterson (punt returner) would be on the list. They would have to be psychics. It's based off the voting by the fans, but a lot of casual fans vote and those fans (no offense) don't really know the underrated players too well, so they just vote for the big names. It's a popularity contest and some players who had great years get it.

Fans and players vote. I think gm get a vote too but could be wrong

[That Guy]

Fans and players vote. I think gm get a vote too but could be wrong

1/3 fans

1/3 players

1/3 coaches

[GoColts8818]

And the Colts wonder why they don't have money for quality players. If Freeney got released this year I wouldn't cry myself to sleep. Jamal Anderson seemed to do pretty well when he replaced Freeney and Mathis is clearly the better of the two DEs. Freeney is extremely one dimensional and isn't worth the money at all. While Mathis can actually stop runs and force fumbles.

you'd cry next year when you saw our defense without him...

Freeney is really the only guy on our defense that teams truely fear. Bethea, Angerer, Powers, and Conner are very nice peaces but teams don't game plan based on them, well maybe a little with Bethea but not to the level they do for Freeney. Mathis is feared some what but when Freeney hasn't been there teams give Mathis the double team treatmentsthey give Freeney and role their QB away from Mathis and he really struggles. Freeney is the cog that our defense is built around. Part and I stress part of the reason Freeney's numbers are down is that he faces double and triple teams every play and QB have adjusted to three step drops and the ball is out because of Freeney. The few teams that we have played where the QB hold the ball Freeney has been a monster. Another part is that we now have a guy like Anderson and Brayton who spell him on downs and he can rest. You can't make plays if you are out of the game resting and we have spelled Freeney and Mathis more this year than any other year because for the first time in a long time we have a run stopping end in Anderson.

Anderson is a nice adation but if we didn't have Freeney or Mathis people would be complaining about him for the same reason he got released in Atlanta he doesn't get a pass rush enough and teams sure as heck don't fear him like they do Freeney. He works best in a system like the Colts have, where he can come in a play run downs and let Freeney rest so he can come back out there and get after the QB with fresher legs.

[GoColts8818]

If he plays defense, we're paying him to make tackles.

Now, different positions are going to have more tackles than others. That's just how things go, but part of his job as a defensive players is to occasionally tackle the guy with the ball, even if that guy happens to not be the QB.

Nice soundbite for a message board. It's pretty clear by how Freeney plays and the fact we signed a guy to be a run stopping end the Colts plan is for Freeney to get to the QB which means rush the passer. They don't expect him to be a guy like Angerer where they expect him to make a lot of tackles. Honestly if you look at Freeney's career he has never been a big tackles guy. He's there to get sacks not lead the team in tackles.

http://espn.go.com/n.../dwight-freeney

Since he had the foot injury he's in the mid 20's. So yeah 18 is down a little bit but it's not a huge drop off from what he has averaged over the last four years or so.

[IndyTrav]

http://espn.go.com/n.../dwight-freeney

Since he had the foot injury he's in the mid 20's. So yeah 18 is down a little bit but it's not a huge drop off from what he has averaged over the last four years or so.

Freeney is triple/double teamed? Freeney is feared? This isn't 2004 anymore. Freeney may not be asked to stuff the run, but his output beyond sacks is pathetic and has been for 2 years. And now those are becoming an issue.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3530/julius-peppers

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5651/jared-allen

How about you take a look at real NFL players. Not 'specialists' who are barely accomplishing the one task thats asked of them.

[GoColts8818]

Freeney is triple/double teamed? Freeney is feared? This isn't 2004 anymore. Freeney may not be asked to stuff the run, but his output beyond sacks is pathetic and has been for 2 years. And now those are becoming an issue.

http://espn.go.com/n.../julius-peppers

http://espn.go.com/n...651/jared-allen

How about you take a look at real NFL players. Not 'specialists' who are barely accomplishing the one task thats asked of them.

Really watch a game and listen to teams say the first thing they do is tell their QB the ball has to come out quick because of Freeney and Mathis. That's the defenation of being feared in the NFL. Despite what some fans think Peyton Manning is not the only good player on this team. Also again watch a game and you will notice often teams still put a tackle and tightend on him to block him so yes he still faces double teams.

[IndyTrav]

Really watch a game and listen to teams say the first thing they do is tell their QB the ball has to come out quick because of Freeney and Mathis. That's the defenation of being feared in the NFL. Despite what some fans think Peyton Manning is not the only good player on this team. Also again watch a game and you will notice often teams still put a tackle and tightend on him to block him so yes he still faces double teams.

"come out quick because of Freeney AND MATHIS"....Freeney isn't feared anymore. Get over it. "Watch a game" teams pass at will, and run it down our throats. Thats the definition of not being feared..... And if you'd really like to get more into it, we can make a list of our division QB over the years, whom Dwight has feasted on. That will be good for a laugh.

He gets chipped by a TE on occasion makes him 'double teamed'? So if Freeney is 2x teamed, where are our 2 free roamers? And Mathis is 1v1? Do you read what your typing? Will two players engage Dwight Freeney during a game? Yes. But the same can the same be said for every other player.

[Corndog]

you'd cry next year when you saw our defense without him...

Freeney is really the only guy on our defense that teams truely fear. Bethea, Angerer, Powers, and Conner are very nice peaces but teams don't game plan based on them, well maybe a little with Bethea but not to the level they do for Freeney. Mathis is feared some what but when Freeney hasn't been there teams give Mathis the double team treatmentsthey give Freeney and role their QB away from Mathis and he really struggles. Freeney is the cog that our defense is built around. Part and I stress part of the reason Freeney's numbers are down is that he faces double and triple teams every play and QB have adjusted to three step drops and the ball is out because of Freeney. The few teams that we have played where the QB hold the ball Freeney has been a monster. Another part is that we now have a guy like Anderson and Brayton who spell him on downs and he can rest. You can't make plays if you are out of the game resting and we have spelled Freeney and Mathis more this year than any other year because for the first time in a long time we have a run stopping end in Anderson.

Anderson is a nice adation but if we didn't have Freeney or Mathis people would be complaining about him for the same reason he got released in Atlanta he doesn't get a pass rush enough and teams sure as heck don't fear him like they do Freeney. He works best in a system like the Colts have, where he can come in a play run downs and let Freeney rest so he can come back out there and get after the QB with fresher legs.

It's not that Freeney isn't a great player and I understand he gets double teamed and has for some time. I also understand he opens things up for the other DEs. The problem is this team puts too much stock into players like Freeney and has below average starters and poor backups for other positions on defense simply because they invest so much money into one player. I would be okay with the pass rush suffering a little if it meant we have solid cornerbacks and could afford good linebackers(IMO the key position for defense). Good DEs are nice to have and it's great getting pressure on the QB, but not at the expense of the rest of the defense. It would be one thing if this team had plenty of money to spend on defense, but since the money is heavily tied up in the offense they need to be smarter about how they spend the money on defense. This defense clearly has little/no depth and the pass coverage is bad at best. A pass rusher is pretty ineffective if the opposing wide receivers are open right off the bat and leave room for them to make first down on every third down play.

[JoKeR]

Who discusses the Pro Bowl?

oh people discuss it, they just don't watch it.

[husker61]

you'd cry next year when you saw our defense without him...

Freeney is really the only guy on our defense that teams truely fear. Bethea, Angerer, Powers, and Conner are very nice peaces but teams don't game plan based on them, well maybe a little with Bethea but not to the level they do for Freeney. Mathis is feared some what but when Freeney hasn't been there teams give Mathis the double team treatmentsthey give Freeney and role their QB away from Mathis and he really struggles. Freeney is the cog that our defense is built around. Part and I stress part of the reason Freeney's numbers are down is that he faces double and triple teams every play and QB have adjusted to three step drops and the ball is out because of Freeney. The few teams that we have played where the QB hold the ball Freeney has been a monster. Another part is that we now have a guy like Anderson and Brayton who spell him on downs and he can rest. You can't make plays if you are out of the game resting and we have spelled Freeney and Mathis more this year than any other year because for the first time in a long time we have a run stopping end in Anderson.

Anderson is a nice adation but if we didn't have Freeney or Mathis people would be complaining about him for the same reason he got released in Atlanta he doesn't get a pass rush enough and teams sure as heck don't fear him like they do Freeney. He works best in a system like the Colts have, where he can come in a play run downs and let Freeney rest so he can come back out there and get after the QB with fresher legs.

teams only fear his pass rushing ability, but they LOVE him when they are running to his side of the field. he doesn't get "doubled or triple teamed on every play" on running plays the tackle easily pushes him past the play and passing plays he is chipped by a 2nd player. i can't remember the last time i saw him triple teamed on a passing play

a part time player can't be payed what he is making now.

[21isSuperman]

Most of the people with time to vote on the probowl, are just trying to recreate the teams they created in Madden. That's why high-profile players get voted in over harder working players, but fan voting isn't the only thing that gets players in. I'm pretty sure coaches and players get a vote for who gets in, and that their vote weighs equally with the fan votes.

Players get voted in based by:

1/3 fan vote

1/3 coach vote

1/3 player vote

If Dwight earned enough respect to get in with coach and player votes, then he DESERVES IT. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise Dwight!

Dwight might have the respect of coaches and players and the talent, but he hasn't had a great season. If it went solely off respect, London Fletcher would be in there every year (which he should be...but I digress)

[GoColts8818]

"come out quick because of Freeney AND MATHIS"....Freeney isn't feared anymore. Get over it. "Watch a game" teams pass at will, and run it down our throats. Thats the definition of not being feared..... And if you'd really like to get more into it, we can make a list of our division QB over the years, whom Dwight has feasted on. That will be good for a laugh.

He gets chipped by a TE on occasion makes him 'double teamed'? So if Freeney is 2x teamed, where are our 2 free roamers? And Mathis is 1v1? Do you read what your typing? Will two players engage Dwight Freeney during a game? Yes. But the same can the same be said for every other player.

I am not getting over it dude he is feared which is again why teams play to get ride of the ball so quickly. Freeney is apart of Freeney and Mathis so if you agree to teams fearing that duo how can you not admit to teams fearing Freeney since he's part of it? Or are you trying to say teams only fear Mathis? If so look at what has happened to Mathis the few times he's played without Freeney. HIs production goes down.

I am just so sick and tired of people who refuse to admit we have anyone else on this team that is good. Anytime someone dares to say someone is good on this team and that person's name isn't Peyton Manning there is always someone who is trying to out think the room by trying to come up with a reason why that player isn't good. Freeney is by far the best player on our defense and yes he is feared, asky anyone who works for a pro-bootball team who you game plan for when you play the Colts on defense and the first words out of their mouth is going to be Dwight Freeney. If you don't want to recongnize that then you either don't know football or you are trying to show that you are smarter by everyone by not agreeing with what most people say about him. I remember before the Super Bowl when he was hurt a lot of people trying to say oh we'll be alright we have Brock and Mathis and they can get to the QB and get a rush. Well then what happened? Freeney started the game and while he didn't have a lot of sacks he was able to rush Brees and draw attention to help free up Mathis and Brees struggled till Freeney's injury really took hold then our pass rush stopped and Brees picked us apart. Like most players people undervalue Freeney because we've been playing with him. Did you notice at the start of the year we would rest Freeney and Mathis at the sametime and as Gruden pointed out that's when teams would throw on us. Since then we rest one or the other to keep that from happening. Yeah I guess your right teams don't fear or adjust what they do at all because of him...

Also the very nature of a double team means more than one guy blocking so yes a tightend helping on Freeney would count as a double team. Most of the time when teams don't double team him he starts to cause problems and it's not long before you hear an annoucer say you better find a way to get him blocked or it's going to be a long day.

Has Freeney had a down year? Yes. Did he deserve the pro-bowl nod probably not. Has he had a horriable year and is no good anymore? Not a chance. When you look at our defense are you really going to tell me in a year where Robert Mathis is a free agent that Dwight Freeney is a guy we should replace? Like anyone yes he has gotten older and yeah he's slowed down a little but like Peyton Manning he's still one of the better guys in the NFL at his poistion.

Honestly this whole tearing down our own players because they aren't perfect is getting old. If someone brings up that Angerer and Conner had a great year with tackles someone comes in and says it's because they were on a bad team and someone had to make tackles. If someone says hey Saturday is good player people go oh he's past his prime. If someone tries to say while Reggie Wayne isn't the best WR in the NFL he's still good people complain he's too slow. If someone tries to say Bethea is a good saftey someone complains that he isn't nearly as good as Sanders was. None of these guys are perfect players but they are all still pretty good and a lot teams would love to hav ethese playes on their roster. The only guy that you can say is good around here without someone taking an issue with it is Peyton Manning and even up to this year people were starting to question him again... Normally it's the same handful of people who love to rip on our players and it's tired. It's one thing to point out faults and stop someone from saying something like hey Bethea is the best safety in the NFL. It's another to try to discredit anything a player like Bethea has ever done and try to find excuses to explain why he's not a good player.

[GoColts8818]

teams only fear his pass rushing ability, but they LOVE him when they are running to his side of the field. he doesn't get "doubled or triple teamed on every play" on running plays the tackle easily pushes him past the play and passing plays he is chipped by a 2nd player. i can't remember the last time i saw him triple teamed on a passing play

a part time player can't be payed what he is making now.

I never said it happened EVERY play. I said it happens which it does.

Also that's like saying people only fear Peyton Manning when he throws the ball but love it when he runs. Just like we don't pay Peyton Manning to run the ball we don't pay Dwight Freeney to stop the run. He's paid to get after the QB which he does fairly good job of.