NFLs Best GMs in 2015

[NFLfan]

That said I don't see how Mike Brown/Marvin Lewis, Jerry Reese and Mickey Loomis get in ahead of Grigson. The Bengals can't win a playoff game against anyone and arn't really that dominate in the regular season either.

The Bengals do a very good job building a roster. They have lots of the talented players on both offense and defense. And they do it without signing high-priced free agents. I was pleased to see them retain some of their own key free agents. If they had a better quarterback and better coaching, they could make it far into the playoffs.

[dgambill]

To the bolded, I think you can. I think you'd just have to lump everyone else in with him. Just because it was a popular opinion doesn't mean it's above reproach.

 

I still think the Hughes trade was about more than just football, but that doesn't mean it was a good trade.

Good point indeed. If Grigson was graded on what people on this forum thought or think well lets just say it wouldn't be pretty. Popular and good don't alway mean the same thing. There were a lot of excited people when we brought in Trent (myself maybe even included because we needed a that strong running game) but that wasn't a great move we see. A lot of people thought going almost all offense in 2012 with Andrew, Coby, Dwayne, and TY was a mistake but they have all been big parts of our team...so good or bad popular isn't relavent. Be interesting to see if the AJ thing works out...he was popular guy to bring in but if he has some injuries and slows down he will be a high priced rental. I did think we got rid of Jerry too soon. Worst case scenerio I thought is he is gone in FA and maybe we get a compensatory pick for him but with Freeney gone I thought we would have given him every opportunity to prove something to us on the field. Anyways its easy to cherry pick moves....overall Grigson has has a very mixed bag with great moves like the one that brought Davis in and some lows like Trent. Most of all its too early to tell. Warner and our guys on the DL and OL that he has picked are very young and raw...and Jones was hurt most of last year and we've yet to see what this years FAs do or what he does in the draft. That said he is on a short leash...Irsay expects to win...and pretty soon I imagine...if he sees us back slide I don't think he will hesitate one bit to move on from Grigson/Pagano and there would be a ton of interested parties willing to coach and run and Andrew Luck led team.

[Bluefire4]

To the bolded, I think you can. I think you'd just have to lump everyone else in with him. Just because it was a popular opinion doesn't mean it's above reproach.

 

I still think the Hughes trade was about more than just football, but that doesn't mean it was a good trade.

I guess you could say that if everyone else is stupid as well. But the fact that most people rid him off as a bust speaks volumes.

[MTC]

I've been really upset with Grigson the past two seasons, but I really think he did well with free agency this offseason.

[Superman]

I guess you could say that if everyone else is stupid as well. But the fact that most people rid him off as a bust speaks volumes.

 

Maybe so, but I think people are far too quick to call a player a bust anyways.

[wig]

When you look at Grigson on a move-by-move basis, he's done very well. The team started from scratch and has had to replace literally everyone of note aside from Castanzo and special teams. He's hit very well in the draft but needs to learn a little patience in keeping his picks.

[NewColtsFan]

Regarding Elway, getting rid of McDaniels and Tebow were no brainers. He deserves credit for landing Manning but criticism for hiring Fox who was may be the worst mis-match for Manning given he is a run first, play defense type of HC who Elway ultimately ended up firing so not sure how that reflects well on him. Now he has brought in his buddy in Kubiak who has a worse offensive system for Manning to try and run at age 39 and replaced Del Rio with Phillips on the defensive side which is a down grade.

 

Sigh.....    here we go again...     

 

Getting rid of McDaniels wasn't hard,  but getting rid of Tebow was not easy at all.   Tebow was HUGELY popular in Denver as both a player and a person.    But Elway did it.  

 

Only people who don't know football give Elway criticism for hiring John Fox.   The man won 46 games in 4 years.   That's what guys like Bill Belichek do.    Heard of him?     Fox isn't a bad coach.    But he was no longer the right coach anymore.    That happens in football sometimes.   Fox has taken two teams to the Super Bowl.    He was smart enough to hire good coordinators for Peyton and his defense.    NFL people who know John Fox know he's a very good coach.   He may not be the right coach for every team,  but for the right team, he's a very good coach.

 

Same with Gary Kubiak.    He's a very good,  very respected head coach.    No less an authority than Bill Polian says the offense that Manning will run this year was the offense that Indy ran back in the 2000's when they had Edgerrin James at RB.    In other words,   Manning can run this offense just fine.    Kubiak is a good coach.    He didn't get the job because he's Elway's friend as you opined several months back.

 

And if you bothered to look at the list -- I mean, REALLY look at the list,  there isn't anyone worth vaulting over Elway.   5th is right about right.    The four others he's behind are top notch.    Your disdain for Elways says more about you than you know.

 

Your view is an fans' view.    You're entitled to think what you want.   Just don't expect a free pass when you post such silliness.

[amfootball]

Sigh.....    here we go again...     

 

Getting rid of McDaniels wasn't hard,  but getting rid of Tebow was not easy at all.   Tebow was HUGELY popular in Denver as both a player and a person.    But Elway did it.  

 

Only people who don't know football give Elway criticism for hiring John Fox.   The man won 46 games in 4 years.   That's what guys like Bill Belichek do.    Heard of him?     Fox isn't a bad coach.    But he was no longer the right coach anymore.    That happens in football sometimes.   Fox has taken two teams to the Super Bowl.    He was smart enough to hire good coordinators for Peyton and his defense.    NFL people who know John Fox know he's a very good coach.   He may not be the right coach for every team,  but for the right team, he's a very good coach.

 

Same with Gary Kubiak.    He's a very good,  very respected head coach.    No less an authority than Bill Polian says the offense that Manning will run this year was the offense that Indy ran back in the 2000's when they had Edgerrin James at RB.    In other words,   Manning can run this offense just fine.    Kubiak is a good coach.    He didn't get the job because he's Elway's friend as you opined several months back.

 

And if you bothered to look at the list -- I mean, REALLY look at the list,  there isn't anyone worth vaulting over Elway.   5th is right about right.    The four others he's behind are top notch.    Your disdain for Elways says more about you than you know.

 

Your view is an fans' view.    You're entitled to think what you want.   Just don't expect a free pass when you post such silliness.

Getting rid of Tebow was hard? Are you serious? He was one of the worst starting QBs to ever play the position. And as GM, I doubt very much that Elway cares if he was popular as if he did/does then he should be fired as GM immediately. As Parcells used to say, "If you start listening to the fans, soon you will be sitting with them."

 

I never said Fox was a bad coach as this isn't about Fox at all but Elway. Fox is a run first, defensive coach who was a terrible fit for Manning. And the goal in Denver has never been wins as Manning will get you double digit wins anywhere he plays but SB wins. That is why Elway got Manning in the first place. Now Elway has moved on to Kubiak who if you ask any Texans fan does not exactly bring expectations of championships not to mention his offensive system which I see you conveniently did not address from my previous post. Again, terrible fit for Manning and may be Elway is looking at this more long term and sees the team flourishing with Osweiller down the road but for a GM whose mantra has been SB or bust the hiring of Kubiak with a 39 year old Manning at QB makes little to no sense.

 

And please stop with the fans view. You always seem to resort to some sort of personal attack/judgment in your posts and I am not sure why. I would hope we can have an adult debate without the cheap shots.  

[NFLfan]

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/53473/57/nfls-best-gms-2015?pg=1

Rotoworld did their annual ranking of the GMs 1-32.

Belichick came in at #1, no surprise there. Number 2 was Ozzie. Elway came at number 5 not sure why as I would not have him that high. Grigson came in at #11 which seems low to me.

Who would you put ahead of Elway?

The Carolina GM is ranked too high (#9). The Panthers finished with a below .500 record in a division that no team seemed to want to win. Yeah, they made the playoffs and won a game, but they did not look good most of the season. They just happened to get hot at the end of the year, but that does not merit being ranked among the top 10, IMO.

[Valpo2004]

To the bolded, I think you can. I think you'd just have to lump everyone else in with him. Just because it was a popular opinion doesn't mean it's above reproach.

 

I still think the Hughes trade was about more than just football, but that doesn't mean it was a good trade.

 

Perhaps so, however I find it quite hypocritical that anyone who supported the move before can lash out with vicious critism of the GM.

 

I'll admit when a move I supported was a bad move.  But I'm not going to use that and say "Grigson's and idoit"

[LockeDown]

Take Seattle for example.  Because they never had a good QB, they were a bad team year after year and they grabbed the top talent every year.    AFter building this great team, they lucked up and found a great QB and the rest is history.  The Colts were a bad team, drafted Luck and were great his 1st, 2nd and 3rd seasons.  We only got to draft at the top of the rounds 1 freaking time and that was the year we drafted Luck.  Great draft btw.  We needed to stink it up for 2 years and we might have a great pass rusher or great LT instead of late round talent.

[amfootball]

Who would you put ahead of Elway?

The Carolina GM is ranked too high (#9). The Panthers finished with a below .500 record in a division that no team seemed to want to win. Yeah, they made the playoffs and won a game, but they did not look good most of the season. They just happened to get hot at the end of the year, but that does not merit being ranked among the top 10, IMO.

I think from 5 on needs to be completely retooled. I would not have Reese at #6 from the Giants or the Panthers GM at 9 either.

[Colts_Fan12]

#11 seems high to me.

I agree should drop even lower if he take Coleman or Randall at 29.

[NewColtsFan]

Getting rid of Tebow was hard? Are you serious? He was one of the worst starting QBs to ever play the position. And as GM, I doubt very much that Elway cares if he was popular as if he did/does then he should be fired as GM immediately. As Parcells used to say, "If you start listening to the fans, soon you will be sitting with them."

 

I never said Fox was a bad coach as this isn't about Fox at all but Elway. Fox is a run first, defensive coach who was a terrible fit for Manning. And the goal in Denver has never been wins as Manning will get you double digit wins anywhere he plays but SB wins. That is why Elway got Manning in the first place. Now Elway has moved on to Kubiak who if you ask any Texans fan does not exactly bring expectations of championships not to mention his offensive system which I see you conveniently did not address from my previous post. Again, terrible fit for Manning and may be Elway is looking at this more long term and sees the team flourishing with Osweiller down the road but for a GM whose mantra has been SB or bust the hiring of Kubiak with a 39 year old Manning at QB makes little to no sense.

 

And please stop with the fans view. You always seem to resort to some sort of personal attack/judgment in your posts and I am not sure why. I would hope we can have an adult debate without the cheap shots.  

 

Your views are beyond ridiculous.     Seriously.     This is a hard discussion to have and it should be easy.

 

Fox was such a run first head coach that all Manning did was set practically every single season passing record on earth, and then  he broke his own records.     The Broncos had the best offense in football the year they went to the Super Bowl. 

 

HELLO?!?

 

Fox hired great OC's so to work with Manning.   It was observed that Manning pretty much worked with the OC and ran the offense he wanted.

 

You sitting here and saying that Fox was terrible fit because he's a defensive minded head coach is pure nonsense.

 

That's like saying Bill Belicheck is a bad fit for Tom Brady because his background is on the defensive side of the ball.   How has that Belicheck-Brady duo worked out in New England.

 

Same here in Indy?    Tony Dungy was a former DC when he became a HC.    How did HE work out with Peyton Manning?

 

Beginning to see how ridiculous your comments are?

 

You lecture me about how fans view things?   And then you tell me that Gary Kubiak doesn't have a good reputation among Houston fans.     Like I care.    

 

Can we stop this now?

 

This is embarrassing.....   and not for me.

[amfootball]

Your views are beyond ridiculous.     Seriously.     This is a hard discussion to have and it should be easy.

 

Fox was such a run first head coach that all Manning did was set practically every single season passing record on earth, and then  he broke his own records.     The Broncos had the best offense in football the year they went to the Super Bowl. 

 

HELLO?!?

 

Fox hired great OC's so to work with Manning.   It was observed that Manning pretty much worked with the OC and ran the offense he wanted.

 

You sitting here and saying that Fox was terrible fit because he's a defensive minded head coach is pure nonsense.

 

That's like saying Bill Belicheck is a bad fit for Tom Brady because his background is on the defensive side of the ball.   How has that Belicheck-Brady duo worked out in New England.

 

Same here in Indy?    Tony Dungy was a former DC when he became a HC.    How did HE work out with Peyton Manning?

 

Beginning to see how ridiculous your comments are?

 

You lecture me about how fans view things?   And then you tell me that Gary Kubiak doesn't have a good reputation among Houston fans.     Like I care.    

 

Can we stop this now?

 

This is embarrassing.....   and not for me.

Oh boy. Probably best to agree to disagree. Belichick has been winning super bowls with Brady, Elway gets blown out of Super Bowls. The whole point of getting Manning, one of the top best 2 QBs of his generation was to win Super Bowls not set records. Pretty sure Manning set some pretty historic records in Indy as well.

 

So far as GM with Manning as his QB, Elway's Broncos have gone one and done at home both times to teams they were favorite to beat as the 1 or 2 seed. And then got stomped by Seattle in the SB where Fox said he did not think to prepare his team for the crowd noise. Yikes.  Even Elway would say his tenure as GM has not been what was expected at this point. But go ahead and believe Kubiak will deliver that elusive ring with this offensive system that is predicated on having an athletic QB ...

[NewColtsFan]

Oh boy. Probably best to agree to disagree. Belichick has been winning super bowls with Brady, Elway gets blown out of Super Bowls. The whole point of getting Manning, one of the top best 2 QBs of his generation was to win Super Bowls not set records. Pretty sure Manning set some pretty historic records in Indy as well.

 

So far as GM with Manning as his QB, Elway's Broncos have gone one and done at home both times to teams they were favorite to beat as the 1 or 2 seed. And then got stomped by Seattle in the SB where Fox said he did not think to prepare his team for the crowd noise. Yikes.  Even Elway would say his tenure as GM has not been what was expected at this point. But go ahead and believe Kubiak will deliver that elusive ring with this offensive system that is predicated on having an athletic QB ...

 

And now you trot out the strawman that I've said Kubiak will deliver.    Which of course, I said no such thing.

 

All I said is he's a good coach and didn't get the job because he's Elway's friend.

 

Elway has been the GM for one super bowl.   ONE.    And because they lost badly that's your view of him.

 

You're a fan.    And you're entitled.     But you're not a knowledgeable fan.    You make more arguments for me than you do for you and you don't even know it.

 

Yes, it's best that we just disagree......

[amfootball]

And now you trot out the strawman that I've said Kubiak will deliver.    Which of course, I said no such thing.

 

All I said is he's a good coach and didn't get the job because he's Elway's friend.

 

Elway has been the GM for one super bowl.   ONE.    And because they lost badly that's your view of him.

 

You're a fan.    And you're entitled.     But you're not a knowledgeable fan.    You make more arguments for me than you do for you and you don't even know it.

 

Yes, it's best that we just disagree......

Go back to when Elway landed Manning. He was asked about courting Manning and getting him to come over to Denver and Elway said it was just the first step and unless he delivered a championship with Manning than just getting him would not be enough.

 

Now, if you want to look at Elway and his win/loss record and say he has been top 5 GM based solely on that than that is your prerogative but when you land a QB like Manning, winning double digits and setting offensive records is par for the course. What was the litmus test for Elway and continues to be is delivering the ring. Not unlike the same boat Grigson is in with Luck. When  you go one and done 2 of 3 years with Manning in games at home that you were favored to win, that hurts your ranking IMO. And on top of that he was crushed in the one SB he did make in large part due to his HC who has his team about as ill-prepared to take the field as any team has ever been in the Super Bowl.

 

If you think Kubiak is a good hire more power to you. As HC in his eight years in Houston his record was 61-64 with two post-season appearances and a 2-2 record. Again, hardly seems to be the guy to deliver that ring ...

[Superman]

Perhaps so, however I find it quite hypocritical that anyone who supported the move before can lash out with vicious critism of the GM.

 

I'll admit when a move I supported was a bad move.  But I'm not going to use that and say "Grigson's and idoit"

 

It's only hypocritical if you pretend that you didn't like the move all along. If you acknowledge that you were wrong, too, then it's different. I posted a poll after the Richardson trade, and it was overwhelmingly in favor of the trade. Now everyone is using that trade as anti-Grigson ammo, and I find that a little disingenuous. I didn't like giving up a first, but I think everyone was excited about adding the player.

 

In any event, I don't think the Hughes trade was a good one, but I don't think it was a football move. This is complete speculation, but it feels like there was stuff behind the scenes that precipitated the trade. I think we probably could have done better than Sheppard, even a mid to late round pick, so I don't think the trade was good. But I also think it could have been a "trade or cut" situation, in which case Sheppard was better than nothing.

[NewColtsFan]

Go back to when Elway landed Manning. He was asked about courting Manning and getting him to come over to Denver and Elway said it was just the first step and unless he delivered a championship with Manning than just getting him would not be enough.

 

Now, if you want to look at Elway and his win/loss record and say he has been top 5 GM based solely on that than that is your prerogative but when you land a QB like Manning, winning double digits and setting offensive records is par for the course. What was the litmus test for Elway and continues to be is delivering the ring. Not unlike the same boat Grigson is in with Luck. When  you go one and done 2 of 3 years with Manning in games at home that you were favored to win, that hurts your ranking IMO. And on top of that he was crushed in the one SB he did make in large part due to his HC who has his team about as ill-prepared to take the field as any team has ever been in the Super Bowl.

 

If you think Kubiak is a good hire more power to you. As HC in his eight years in Houston his record was 61-64 with two post-season appearances and a 2-2 record. Again, hardly seems to be the guy to deliver that ring ...

 

You can't stop contradicting yourself and you don't even know it.

 

You chide me for citing the Broncos winning record and then turn right around and trash Kubiak for not having a great record.

 

I guess Bill Polian doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame because he only won one super bowl with Manning and none with Jim Kelly.

 

And I only talked about Manning's stats because you said Fox was a bad fit for Peyton because he was defensive oriented.

 

And I simply pointed out that lots of HC's are defensive oriented but win anyway.   And winning is the bottom line.    Winning a Super Bowl is the hardest thing to do.     It's no shame on anyone who does't win a SB.

 

Manning may not win another.    Luck may not win one at all.   Nothing is guaranteed.

 

You should stick to your own suggestion.    We should just agree to disagree.

[amfootball]

You can't stop contradicting yourself and you don't even know it.

 

You chide me for citing the Broncos winning record and then turn right around and trash Kubiak for not having a great record.

 

I guess Bill Polian doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame because he only won one super bowl with Manning and none with Jim Kelly.

 

And I only talked about Manning's stats because you said Fox was a bad fit for Peyton because he was defensive oriented.

 

And I simply pointed out that lots of HC's are defensive oriented but win anyway.   And winning is the bottom line.    Winning a Super Bowl is the hardest thing to do.     It's no shame on anyone who does't win a SB.

 

Manning may not win another.    Luck may not win one at all.   Nothing is guaranteed.

 

You should stick to your own suggestion.    We should just agree to disagree.

Yeah, this seems pretty fruitless. We are coming at it from two different viewpoints. I see Elway with Manning as his QB as a GM that should have delivered the ring or the very least deeper playoff runs to get a #5 ranking but I am willing to see how things pan out with Kubiak. I believe it was a long term hire anyways post Manning but in general hiring your buddy typically does not produce the desired results ...

[Qwiz]

[southwest1]

"You know Ryan Grigson for his “best” move — having a pulse the day Indy was eligible to select Andrew Luck —" 

 

The author has no idea what in the hades he is talking about. Owner Jim Irsay not Ryan Grigson made the call to cut Manning & draft the Stanford & future NFL elite QB named Andrew.

 

When you screw that up in your flawed assertion, you lose all credibility with me Mr. Patrick Daughterty & how come experts never highlight how many other GMs peel guys from our squad when final roster cuts are made either? 

[southwest1]

Yeah, this spat/difference of opinion between NCF & AMF about John Elway, John Fox, & Peyton Manning is quite entertaining especially from 2 smart & gifted writers in their own right. I have no dog in this hunt. Just pass the popcorn QuizBoy. This is just getting good. 

[Superman]

If you think Kubiak is a good hire more power to you. As HC in his eight years in Houston his record was 61-64 with two post-season appearances and a 2-2 record. Again, hardly seems to be the guy to deliver that ring ...

 

You know better than that. In 5 seasons before going to the Pats, Belichick was 36-44 with one playoff appearance and one playoff win.

[amfootball]

You know better than that. In 5 seasons before going to the Pats, Belichick was 36-44 with one playoff appearance and one playoff win.

Yep. And Belichick has proven to be a great GM and coach and in the process has made Kraft look like a genius for trading for him. But at the time, the hire was not considered to be a great one given the Pats gave up a number one pick to the Jets to get him and he was a sub 500 coach and never had the GM title before. And this is also a bit of apples to oranges as Elway is GM and hired Kubiak so the critique here is on Elway. With the Pats, Bill was hired as GM and coach.

[Gramz]

Here's a Quarter ~ Call Someone Who Cares.

 

[Superman]

Yep. And Belichick has proven to be a great GM and coach and in the process has made Kraft look like a genius for trading for him. But at the time, the hire was not considered to be a great one given the Pats gave up a number one pick to the Jets to get him and he was a sub 500 coach and never had the GM title before. And this is also a bit of apples to oranges as Elway is GM and hired Kubiak so the critique here is on Elway. With the Pats, Bill was hired as GM and coach.

 

You can parse it whatever way you want. All I'm saying is that it's not unheard of for a coach to find success later in his career. Kubiak toiled for five years in Houston, then finally got into the playoffs in back to back years, then it all fell apart when his QB forgot which team to throw the ball to. He's already shown that he can get better with time.

 

I'm not arguing that he's a great hire. I'm just saying that the whole "look at his record" criticism is kind of weak, especially coming from a Patriots fan. If coaching hires were made only on the basis of prior record, Belichick would never have been the Pats coach. Like you said, the hire was criticized at the time, and it turned out fine. Now look at what you're doing with Kubiak...

 

Also, is it okay to hire a guy with a subpar record to be your coach and your GM, but it's not okay to hire him as your coach? That seems backward.

[southwest1]

Here's a Quarter ~ Call Someone Who Cares.

 

Cute post there Gramz & a classic Travis Tritt classic signature song to boot. 

[ColtRider]

You'll have to forgive Dustin....

 

When it comes to Grigson, he's completely mentally deranged,  unbalanced and off his meds. 

 

There is simply no reasoning with him.

 

As to Elway,  all he's done is get rid of Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.    Brought in Peyton Manning and John Fox.   Won 46 games in 4 years and an AFC Title and got his team to the Super Bowl.   And now he's turned around and gotten rid of Fox and moved on to Gary Kubiak. 

 

And you wonder what he's done to deserve being ranked 5th?!?    

Figured out Dustin a loooooo-ng time ago. Not a knock on ya, brother (Dustin). You really need a new SIG!

[amfootball]

You can parse it whatever way you want. All I'm saying is that it's not unheard of for a coach to find success later in his career. Kubiak toiled for five years in Houston, then finally got into the playoffs in back to back years, then it all fell apart when his QB forgot which team to throw the ball to. He's already shown that he can get better with time.

 

I'm not arguing that he's a great hire. I'm just saying that the whole "look at his record" criticism is kind of weak, especially coming from a Patriots fan. If coaching hires were made only on the basis of prior record, Belichick would never have been the Pats coach. Like you said, the hire was criticized at the time, and it turned out fine. Now look at what you're doing with Kubiak...

 

Also, is it okay to hire a guy with a subpar record to be your coach and your GM, but it's not okay to hire him as your coach? That seems backward.

My original point regarding Kubiak was not so much his record as his offensive system not being a fit for Manning. But I later said that I think Elway was thinking long term and perhaps sees Osweiller as the future QB in which case Kubiak makes more sense.

 

At this point with Elway all we have to go on is what has happened and my first post that began this thread was about how the writer of this list slams Grigson saying it was a no brainer to draft Luck which has propelled the Colts to the playoffs the last three years almost despite Grigson and then in his write up of Elway he praises him with no mention of the fact that Manning has been his QB the last three years as well. I get that Elway actually had to sign Manning but I don't think his moves as GM warrant him being at 5 especially when he just fired his coach and hired his buddy to replace him. We will see how it all turns out ... I don't think Kubiak was a good hire at all but that does not mean he won't have success. I just would not bet on it.

[Superman]

My original point regarding Kubiak was not so much his record as his offensive system not being a fit for Manning. But I later said that I think Elway was thinking long term and perhaps sees Osweiller as the future QB in which case Kubiak makes more sense.

 

At this point with Elway all we have to go on is what has happened and my first post that began this thread was about how the writer of this list slams Grigson saying it was a no brainer to draft Luck which has propelled the Colts to the playoffs the last three years almost despite Grigson and then in his write up of Elway he praises him with no mention of the fact that Manning has been his QB the last three years as well. I get that Elway actually had to sign Manning but I don't think his moves as GM warrant him being at 5 especially when he just fired his coach and hired his buddy to replace him. We will see how it all turns out ... I don't think Kubiak was a good hire at all but that does not mean he won't have success. I just would not bet on it.

 

Elway didn't draft Manning. He recruited him. Manning was the biggest free agent in probably ever, and Elway played it right and got him. He didn't outbid everyone (TN), he didn't play it fast and bold (Seattle), he didn't have the best roster (SF), he didn't have the sexiest destination (Miami)... he made Manning feel comfortable, and got him. He deserves an incredible amount of credit for that. Far more than Grigson gets for Luck, which decision was probably not really his to make. I don't knock Grigson for choosing Luck, and anyone who does is being petty and ridiculous, but it just doesn't compare with Elway getting Manning.

 

I don't know why we're talking about Fox for Kubiak yet. Let's see what their teams look like in 2015. I'm of the opinion that Fox coached himself out of a job in the playoffs, along with the rest of his staff.

 

I'm also not sure if you're actually defending Grigson when you say Luck has propelled the Colts to the playoffs "almost despite Grigson." 

 

As for Kubiak's system, I don't know how else Kubiak can say that they're going to run what Manning is good at. Kubiak would be a fool to put Manning in the 2010 Matt Schaub offense and have him run bootlegs all game long. He's not going to do that. He's going to switch to a zone blocking run scheme, and he's going to put Manning under center a little bit more, but they are still going to let Manning run his stuff like he has been since forever. Neither Elway nor Kubiak are blockheads.

[amfootball]

Elway didn't draft Manning. He recruited him. Manning was the biggest free agent in probably ever, and Elway played it right and got him. He didn't outbid everyone (TN), he didn't play it fast and bold (Seattle), he didn't have the best roster (SF), he didn't have the sexiest destination (Miami)... he made Manning feel comfortable, and got him. He deserves an incredible amount of credit for that. Far more than Grigson gets for Luck, which decision was probably not really his to make. I don't knock Grigson for choosing Luck, and anyone who does is being petty and ridiculous, but it just doesn't compare with Elway getting Manning.

 

I don't know why we're talking about Fox for Kubiak yet. Let's see what their teams look like in 2015. I'm of the opinion that Fox coached himself out of a job in the playoffs, along with the rest of his staff.

 

I'm also not sure if you're actually defending Grigson when you say Luck has propelled the Colts to the playoffs "almost despite Grigson." 

 

As for Kubiak's system, I don't know how else Kubiak can say that they're going to run what Manning is good at. Kubiak would be a fool to put Manning in the 2010 Matt Schaub offense and have him run bootlegs all game long. He's not going to do that. He's going to switch to a zone blocking run scheme, and he's going to put Manning under center a little bit more, but they are still going to let Manning run his stuff like he has been since forever. Neither Elway nor Kubiak are blockheads.

Yep. like I said Elway deserves credit for signing Manning. No question. But if you look at the last three seasons, the Colts have more playoff wins than Denver. I would have never expected that at the time that Luck and Manning began with their teams in 2012. I don't get how Grigson can be criticized and be at 11 and yet Elway at 5. If those six points in ranking are due to Elway landing Manning then fair enough but if that is the case then I would have expected Elway to have more playoff wins with Manning than Grigson has had with a rookie on top of a complete org rebuild.

[southwest1]

It took me awhile, but I've finally learned to accept the transition from GM Bill Polian to GM Ryan Grigson. I finally learned to just acknowledge that Grigs will tell the fanbase nothing & that seems to help. 

 

I have high expectations this year & I keep reminding myself that no team wins a championship on paper. I'm just glad that Jim Irsay wants a good return on the money he is spending & that he will let everyone inside LOS know that we must make our SB appearance this year under the Luck regime. 

 

I want rings not aw shucks look how close we came to the Promiseland. Legacies are built on Championships not division titles. Get er done Pags & Grigs...The Honeymoon phase is over now. 

[Superman]

Yep. like I said Elway deserves credit for signing Manning. No question. But if you look at the last three seasons, the Colts have more playoff wins than Denver. I would have never expected that at the time that Luck and Manning began with their teams in 2012. I don't get how Grigson can be criticized and be at 11 and yet Elway at 5. If those six points in ranking are due to Elway landing Manning then fair enough but if that is the case then I would have expected Elway to have more playoff wins with Manning than Grigson has had with a rookie on top of a complete org rebuild.

 

But then you criticize Elway, both for hiring and firing John Fox... It's weird, almost like you have an issue with Elway.

 

The Broncos have a strong roster. They have a good cap situation. They've drafted reasonably well. They also went from a 4-12 team with no QB to a Super Bowl contender with a great QB, in record time, on Elway's watch. 

 

Elway can be rated higher than Grigson for two basic reasons: 1) he signed Manning, and 2) he didn't trade a first rounder for Trent Richardson. That's kind of all that needs to be said, but his free agency signings have been better than Grigson's also.

 

I like Ryan Grigson, and I think he deserves more credit than he gets around here. But he has some mistakes that tarnish his record, and unlike Elway, he doesn't have that big get or a Super Bowl appearance. I don't really care about these rankings, but Elway ahead of Grigson isn't hard to understand.

[NewColtsFan]

Figured out Dustin a loooooo-ng time ago. Not a knock on ya, brother (Dustin). You really need a new SIG!

 

To be clear,  while I give Dustin a hard time here and we disagree about Grigson very passionately,  I like Dustin a lot.

 

He's one of my favorite posters.   Very smart.   Very knowledgeable.   But once he takes a position,  it's going to take a lot for him to move off that.

 

I don't mind knocking heads with him.   I think he raises good points for discussion.   And I like that in posters....

[ColtRider]

To be clear,  while I give Dustin a hard time here and we disagree about Grigson very passionately,  I like Dustin a lot.

 

He's one of my favorite posters.   Very smart.   Very knowledgeable.   But once he takes a position,  it's going to take a lot for him to move off that.

 

I don't mind knocking heads with him.   I think he raises good points for discussion.   And I like that in posters....

Agreed. Some of the wittiest/intelligent/well thought-out/funny posts have come from Dustin. Never will forget the post in mid-March or so titled "Film Study : What Frank Gore brings to the Colts ..." A classic.

[southwest1]

To be clear,  while I give Dustin a hard time here and we disagree about Grigson very passionately,  I like Dustin a lot.

 

He's one of my favorite posters.   Very smart.   Very knowledgeable.   But once he takes a position,  it's going to take a lot for him to move off that.

 

I don't mind knocking heads with him.   I think he raises good points for discussion.   And I like that in posters....

Dustin knows his draft analysis stuff. No question. There's certain guys I will never challenge & Dustin's one of them because he can dissect plays on another level that I could never dream of doing. 

 

The best I can do is ask for clarification if I'm perplexed about a statement he made regarding a draft prospect. So NCF deserves props for carrying on a debate with Dustin into a new area of discussion. 

 

I respect people who are diligent in their positions & seldom move from them because it usually means that they can stand up to scrutiny & they aren't worried about being popular or well liked. They just believe what they believe & 1 person's madness is usually another man's genius & besides the draft is an educated guess on a college player's NFL longevity anyway. 

 

The other thing I like about Dustin is that his player breakdowns are very thorough with video proof to verify what he says without getting bogged down in complicated jargon or vocabulary either. This is not as commonplace as you think because just because you know something it doesn't mean you can explain it simply to others not as well versed as you.

 

Superman has this gift too when he analyzes Colts regular season games & gives them a grade. 

[loudnproudcolt]

Vontae Davis seems like a very good building block to me on defense, and takes the sting out of missing on Werner, who still may develop. I don't think many thought Davis would be available and was worth a 2nd, so I would say that is a pretty big chip in his corner.

[loudnproudcolt]

Vontae Davis seems like a pretty good building block for the defense to me, and was well worth the 2nd. Hard to find premeir corners on other teams, and snag them. Give him credit for that one. On offense, the OL is not great yet, but the skill players have all been solid, and Montcrief was a steal in the 3rd, and trading up for Hilton in the 3rd was a home run!

[amfootball]

But then you criticize Elway, both for hiring and firing John Fox... It's weird, almost like you have an issue with Elway.

 

The Broncos have a strong roster. They have a good cap situation. They've drafted reasonably well. They also went from a 4-12 team with no QB to a Super Bowl contender with a great QB, in record time, on Elway's watch. 

 

Elway can be rated higher than Grigson for two basic reasons: 1) he signed Manning, and 2) he didn't trade a first rounder for Trent Richardson. That's kind of all that needs to be said, but his free agency signings have been better than Grigson's also.

 

I like Ryan Grigson, and I think he deserves more credit than he gets around here. But he has some mistakes that tarnish his record, and unlike Elway, he doesn't have that big get or a Super Bowl appearance. I don't really care about these rankings, but Elway ahead of Grigson isn't hard to understand.

I was not lobbying for Grigson ahead of Elway but more nitpicking on the respective write-ups for each. I did not expect the comment to spiral into all these posts with NCF and you but overall Elway has been doing a better job no doubt but I do think Grigson is low on the list as well.

 

In terms of Fox, I was vocal from the out set that I thought Fox was a bad match for Manning given his football philosophy and conservative approach. Because Elway was so bent on win the Super Bowl now, I think he needed to find a better match for Manning but in fairness, I am not even sure who was even available back in 2012. I also think Elway should have fired him after the Super Bowl. It was clear then just how upset Elway was with him and the team and I think that hurt the team last year especially heading into the post-season when everything came to a head.