Patriots investigation (merge)

[crazycolt1]

I would agree with you...and I would also include a few other groups as well.

 

Because isn't it interesting, now a month after the story first broke, how far away we are from what was first reported? You know...those first reports that you took as undeniable fact and then went on your 10-day smear campaign?

 

I would include those like you who legit went on a 'what Mort first reported is the gospel' tear through the message boards...after all, why is what some people believe now about the Colts deflating the football any more crazy than what people believed a month ago? Neither are true...so why is one more credible than the other? It's all based on nonsense...no more, no less.

It easy, Patriots-11 deflated footballs. Colts- 0 deflated footballs. Nonsense? Just keep thinking that.

[SouthernCal]

journalism gone down the drain in this social media era. I don't believe anyone including my own reporters because not everything they report is not completely accurate.

[SouthernCal]

Maybe he's on business in the west coast. Maybe he just got understandably sick of the winters out east and did the smart thing and moved.

Will you still be here when deflate gate is over?

just curious

[bababooey]

I would agree with you...and I would also include a few other groups as well.

 

Because isn't it interesting, now a month after the story first broke, how far away we are from what was first reported? You know...those first reports that you took as undeniable fact and then went on your 10-day smear campaign?

 

I would include those like you who legit went on a 'what Mort first reported is the gospel' tear through the message boards...after all, why is what some people believe now about the Colts deflating the football any more crazy than what people believed a month ago? Neither are true...so why is one more credible than the other? It's all based on nonsense...no more, no less.

The main difference between Mort and the other reports: we had no reason to NOT believe Mort at the time, considering his credibility (that has since taken a serious hit) and his sources. Once Rapoport came out with his we knew "ok we can't rely on anything until the investigation is over", then Schefter said on WEEI about the new theory Pats fans believe is the Colts deflated one ball because (like I told Virdulant) was lazy thinking when you only consider Ian's report, then OTL came out a couple days ago and talked about McNally and also the fact 11 balls were a pound or more over, then Schefter came out and refuted it saying it was a rogue ref and AMfootball was all over that like a hobo on a sandwich saying bc of that it means all the balls were taken by the ref during the game and sold during the game, then the ref's association refuted it, and everytime a piece has leaked since Mort was contradicted, we all know we can't put faith in any of it until the investigation is released, and even so both sides will refuse to believe fully the investigation since it's obviously a conflict of interest between the NFL and Wells and since the NFL is paying for it they can edit and release what they want. Point being is the smear campaign (not just here - every news stand across the country) was because of Mort's credibility which he ruined. Since then we know we can rely on nothing. As Ygritte would paraphrase "We know nothing Jon Snow"

[bababooey]

No, they can't. It's in the rule book that even if they were found guilty of tampering, it's a $20,000 fine.

The only way the fine would exceed that is if Kraft, Belichick or Brady were caught lying about their knowledge, and it's obvious to me that they aren't, because they wouldnt have come out and made such strong public statements if they knew they were guilty of something.

The Patriots have never lied about anything, and even after spygate broke out Belichick admitted to it and apologized. Kraft also made a public statement about it and accepted the NFLs punishment which he originally disagreed with but said after speaking with Goodell and hearing his reasoning behind it about setting a precedent (making an example of the Pats as warning to the rest of the league), that he would accept it and move on.

They aren't liars, they have no history or track record of lying or being dishonest. There is simply no way that they would have made such bold denials of this in a press conference that would make world news if they knew they were guilty of something.

We made it clear a month ago tampering wouldn't be just a 20,000 fine in this situation, it may be limited to but that's not the only one. Stop making nonsense up. Second offenses surely count for more.

[crazycolt1]

pretty much. Even you have to admit this "case" against the Patriots is having its Last Rites read to it...once you have evidence that a freakin' league official is STEALING balls to sell for his own gain, how can you believe a single accusation against the Patriots? The league clearly has ZERO control over its own people and procedures.

Did you just really say that? That is the best deflection I have ever heard.

[amfootball]

The main difference between Mort and the other reports: we had no reason to NOT believe Mort at the time, considering his credibility (that has since taken a serious hit) and his sources. Once Rapoport came out with his we knew "ok we can't rely on anything until the investigation is over", then Schefter said on WEEI about the new theory Pats fans believe is the Colts deflated one ball because (like I told Virdulant) was lazy thinking when you only consider Ian's report, then OTL came out a couple days ago and talked about McNally and also the fact 11 balls were a pound or more over, then Schefter came out and refuted it saying it was a rogue ref and AMfootball was all over that like a hobo on a sandwich saying bc of that it means all the balls were taken by the ref during the game and sold during the game, then the ref's association refuted it, and everytime a piece has leaked since Mort was contradicted, we all know we can't put faith in any of it until the investigation is released, and even so both sides will refuse to believe fully the investigation since it's obviously a conflict of interest between the NFL and Wells and since the NFL is paying for it they can edit and release what they want. Point being is the smear campaign (not just here - every news stand across the country) was because of Mort's credibility which he ruined. Since then we know we can rely on nothing. As Ygritte would paraphrase "We know nothing Jon Snow"

Good job misquoting me.

[bababooey]

It easy, Patriots-11 deflated footballs. Colts- 0 deflated footballs. Nonsense? Just keep thinking that.

But they never measured pregame which is the biggest missing piece. You could technically say we were at 13.5 and (if we were even remeasured at halftime) down to 12.5 we wouldn't know where we were at in the beginning since it wasn't logged. Same w Patriots, it could have been 12.5 when approved and then all tested at 11.5 or lower at half but no way on either side to determine if the 20 degree difference in 2 hours caused the serious drop or someone did it on the pats side. No way to prove plus the NFL's blunder with the rogue official and they will skate on a technicality.

[GoPats]

You got the superbowl so enjoy it, probably will get off with no "punishment" too but everyone else looks at them as cheaters in the face of the evidence and would compare it to OJ getting off and the NFL letting the pats off the hook due to their own misdoings.

 

You're right, the story broke on 1/19 and the Court of Public Opinion adjourned on the same date. 

 

Thing is, no matter what happens, one thing is nearly a certain truth -- the Patriots will be right in the thick of things next year, they'll probably win 12 games (maybe more with a softer schedule), and they'll continue to do what they've been doing for the last 15 years.

 

They'll keep winning games. Kind of like how they continued to win after Spygate, when any advantage that it may have provided them was completely removed from the equation.

 

It'll be the same this time around. No matter what kind of league rules or procedures regarding the handling of game balls change, they'll be right there again in 2015, in the face of NFL fans who despise them, becoming more and more reprehensible with every victory.

[bababooey]

Good job misquoting me.

You said because an NFL REFEREE took a ball and tried to sell it DURING THE GAME that he could have taken ALL of the patriots footballs and replaced them, insinuating the balls measured at half were not the same balls approved in pregame. To which I retorted it could be possible that the one ball he replaced with the one he took could have been the only Patriots ball that showed up within the correct psi level.

[amfootball]

You said because an NFL REFEREE took a ball and tried to sell it DURING THE GAME that he could have taken ALL of the patriots footballs and replaced them, insinuating the balls measured at half were not the same balls approved in pregame. To which I retorted it could be possible that the one ball he took could have been the only Patriots ball that showed up within the correct psi level.

Where did I ever say any of that? Please find a post.

[dynasty13]

The main difference between Mort and the other reports: we had no reason to NOT believe Mort at the time, considering his credibility (that has since taken a serious hit) and his sources. Once Rapoport came out with his we knew "ok we can't rely on anything until the investigation is over", then Schefter said on WEEI about the new theory Pats fans believe is the Colts deflated one ball because (like I told Virdulant) was lazy thinking when you only consider Ian's report, then OTL came out a couple days ago and talked about McNally and also the fact 11 balls were a pound or more over, then Schefter came out and refuted it saying it was a rogue ref and AMfootball was all over that like a hobo on a sandwich saying bc of that it means all the balls were taken by the ref during the game and sold during the game, then the ref's association refuted it, and everytime a piece has leaked since Mort was contradicted, we all know we can't put faith in any of it until the investigation is released, and even so both sides will refuse to believe fully the investigation since it's obviously a conflict of interest between the NFL and Wells and since the NFL is paying for it they can edit and release what they want. Point being is the smear campaign (not just here - every news stand across the country) was because of Mort's credibility which he ruined. Since then we know we can rely on nothing. As Ygritte would paraphrase "We know nothing Jon Snow"

 

Fair enough. And what you just stated was exactly what my criticisms were based on from the very beginning about the initial reactions to this story. People will believe what they want to believe and that's perfectly fine...but some were walking around stating it as ABSOLUTE FACT and saying some pretty damaging things as a result...and that is where a lot of the negative reactions from myself and others came from. It turned out to be nonsense, just like a lot of what is being reported now is. And that's the point...that is what I was saying from the beginning. The original reports that many took as fact are no more credible than the reports coming out now that plays the other side. One side chooses to believe one report, the other chooses to believe another report, and that seems to based solely on allegiance and fandom. But when someone forms their opinion based on something that is wrong and goes on a legitimate oral rampage...I mean...that's what was so ridiculous about how the story blew up the way it did.

[bababooey]

He didn't sell it after the game. He removed it during the game which is why McNully had an unapproved ball. Whose to say how many balls he did that with? When you have a game official removing balls and getting fired for it, I am not sure how you think the Pats could be implicated for anything.

Here you go.

[bababooey]

Fair enough. And what you just stated was exactly what my criticisms were based on from the very beginning about the initial reactions to this story. People will believe what they want to believe and that's perfectly fine...but some were walking around stating it as ABSOLUTE FACT and saying some pretty damaging things as a result...and that is where a lot of the negative reactions from myself and others came from. It turned out to be nonsense, just like a lot of what is being reported now is. And that's the point...that is what I was saying from the beginning. The original reports that many took as fact are no more credible than the reports coming out now that plays the other side. One side chooses to believe one report, the other chooses to believe another report, and that seems to based solely on allegiance and fandom. But when someone forms their opinion based on something that is wrong and goes on a legitimate oral rampage...I mean...that's what was so ridiculous about how the story blew up the way it did.

Not true - like I said before the first report was taken as fact because there was no reason for it to not be, and because we did and realized it wasn't true, everything since then has been looked at through a skeptical lense as well. I don't regret believing what I did after Mort's report, there was no reason not to believe it at the time. But yes, because of allegiances and the misconduct of NFL official and lack of independence of Wells/NFL/Patriots everyone is going to believe something different.

[amfootball]

Here you go.

How is that even remotely what you said? I never said he sold it during but that he put it aside to sell after the game or that he had removed other balls but that it raised questions if he might have given he had a history of removing balls from games which is why he got fired.

 

What we know now IF true is that a game ball was tampered with (removed) by a league official.

[bababooey]

How is that even remotely what you said? I never said he sold it during but that he put it aside to sell after the game or that he had removed other balls but that it raised questions if he might have given he had a history of removing balls from games which is why he got fired.

 

What we know now IF true is that a game ball was tampered with (removed) by a league official.

Well if you said he didn't sell it after the game then it's either before (which makes no sense since it's not game used) or during....

[BrentMc11]

Does anybody want to comment on the topic of this thread here, or should we re-name the thread "Why does Bad Morty post here?".

That does have a nice 'ring' to it.  You aint called Bad Morty for nuthin' 

 

Hey you can knit this....

[dw49]

No, they can't. It's in the rule book that even if they were found guilty of tampering, it's a $20,000 fine.

The only way the fine would exceed that is if Kraft, Belichick or Brady were caught lying about their knowledge, and it's obvious to me that they aren't, because they wouldnt have come out and made such strong public statements if they knew they were guilty of something.

The Patriots have never lied about anything, and even after spygate broke out Belichick admitted to it and apologized. Kraft also made a public statement about it and accepted the NFLs punishment which he originally disagreed with but said after speaking with Goodell and hearing his reasoning behind it about setting a precedent (making an example of the Pats as warning to the rest of the league), that he would accept it and move on.

They aren't liars, they have no history or track record of lying or being dishonest. There is simply no way that they would have made such bold denials of this in a press conference that would make world news if they knew they were guilty of something.

 

 

 

Your kidding right ? Please read and report back.....

 

 

 The NFL's game operations manual states: "Once the balls have left the locker room, no one, including players, equipment managers, ball boys, and coaches, is allowed to alter the footballs in any way. If any individual alters the footballs, or if a non-approved ball is used in the game, the person responsible and, if appropriate, the head coach or other club personnel will be subject to discipline, including but not limited to, a fine of $25,000."

[BrentMc11]

I like to read rival team's forums because the point of view is often so startlingly different than Patriots' fan forums. I find it sometimes embarrassing when Pats fans hang out in a rival team's forum and act like the team's spokesman but this obsession with Bad Morty being here on the part of some Colts' fans strikes me as real Midwestern hayseed stuff.

You really have a great insight there.  Look forward to seeing more of your wisdom To-Mas 

[amfootball]

Well if you said he didn't sell it after the game then it's either before (which makes no sense since it's not game used) or during....

According to Schefty, he set the game ball aside during the game in order to sell it after the game. He had a history of doing this which is why he got fired.

[Bad Morty]

 

That does have a nice 'ring' to it.  You aint called Bad Morty for nuthin' 

 

Hey you can knit this....

Since we're all in a "let's learn about Bad Morty" mode, I'll share this for you puzzle lovers...my real name isn't Morty...but the name has meaning.

[GoPats]

journalism gone down the drain in this social media era. I don't believe anyone including my own reporters because not everything they report is not completely accurate.

 

You are so dead-on with this statement... couldn't agree more. In the race to "break" news first, there's been a lot of carelessness and irresponsibility, and an overall lowering of standards in the industry. Reporters no longer have to wait for the next day's print run to deliver a story, and subsequently we see a lot of things that end up being anywhere from slightly to wildly inaccurate. Maybe, in the past, the time between a story breaking and a story running was enough time for things to be confirmed, corrected, verified, etc... 

 

It's only gonna get worse, too! 

[BrentMc11]

Where did I ever say any of that? Please find a post.

am......you 'done gone' bat **** crazy on us these days.  Really...what happened?

[dynasty13]

Not true - like I said before the first report was taken as fact because there was no reason for it to not be, and because we did and realized it wasn't true, everything since then has been looked at through a skeptical lense as well. I don't regret believing what I did after Mort's report, there was no reason not to believe it at the time. But yes, because of allegiances and the misconduct of NFL official and lack of independence of Wells/NFL/Patriots everyone is going to believe something different.

 

Yet you're still posting things like 'the Patriots will probably get off with no punishment despite the evidence'....which leads me to believe that you haven't changed your stance at all. Sure...you're certainly less vitriolic than you were...i mean lets be honest, you were leading the revolution! ;) ....but what evidence do you keep referring to? As it turns out, at this stage of what we know, Patriots fans were right to defend their team even as we were called out for doing so, because there literally has been 0 wrong doing proven and in no way, shape, or form has a single piece of evidence popped up that shows they were deliberately taking air out of footballs to give themselves an advantage. If you remember, that's what this whole thing was based on. So when people keep saying 'theyll get off on a technicality" or "they'll just get a slap on the wrist"...I'm sitting here wondering if we are living on the same planet. As it stands right now, and yes that may change, we simply dont know yet, but as it stands right now, there is nothing for them to 'get off of'....there is simply nothing. And when people post things like that, it is THEIR credibility that starts to flounder, because clearly either A)they aren't paying attention to this, or B)they have found some sort of evidence that the NFL hasnt and they know things we dont. 

 

Which is more believable?

[bababooey]

According to Schefty, he set the game ball aside during the game in order to sell it after the game. He had a history of doing this which is why he got fired.

But you said he didn't sell after the game. Point being is colts fans are getting ragged on for taking Mort as gospel when there was no reason not to, but any leak against the case since then, like both of Schefter's that had no merit (especially the theory the Colts deflated a ball), Schefter and ESPN meant a Referee then when the NFLRA refuted it they updated (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/19/nflra-reacts-to-report-that-league-official-was-fired/). Just like we believed Mort, you believed Schefter that there is a rogue Ref until the NFLRA made it clear it wasn't a ref but just a guy collecting balls for charity who would have no opportunity to swipe balls from the sideline rather than just switch a game ball with his own when given to him after the ball has served its purpose and is ready to be taken for auction.

[BrentMc11]

8-5 Colts fans over Patriots fans here today.  Good to see, but why in the hell are we replying to the bait-meisters.  

 

Feel free to answer Viri-_____

[bababooey]

You are so dead-on with this statement... couldn't agree more. In the race to "break" news first, there's been a lot of carelessness and irresponsibility, and an overall lowering of standards in the industry. Reporters no longer have to wait for the next day's print run to deliver a story, and subsequently we see a lot of things that end up being anywhere from slightly to wildly inaccurate. Maybe, in the past, the time between a story breaking and a story running was enough time for things to be confirmed, corrected, verified, etc... 

 

It's only gonna get worse, too! 

You should have been living in southwest CT on the day Sandy Hook happened. The stories that were breaking from the towns around me (not just Newtown) were so insane that it made me hate all of the networks who used their twitter accounts to perpetuate untrue details as the day unfolded. I agree the social media aspect and those who want to be First rather than Correct are ruining journalism.

[radiogirl]

 

 

Since we're all in a "let's learn about Bad Morty" mode, I'll share this for you puzzle lovers...my real name isn't Morty...but the name has meaning.

 

Ohhhhh, so mystical....Come on Morty....why you gotta be so....BADDDDDD???????

[ColtsBlueFL]

Will we know? Does the NFL have any obligation to make the full results public?

 

I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, but the way this whole thing has been handled, I wonder if the "report" will be sanitized for the media/public...

 

We only have Bully-gate to determine if their will is for full transparency.  Wells has said his investigation will be made public.  He did not say if an NFL cleansing would be allowed on it first.  We may never see any of the videos either.  Finally, reporters are using Officials and league employee too loosely in their recap of leaked information.

 

What is a league employee if they are not an Official, main office staff, or internal or external security?  Ball handling lackey?  There isn't a need for such.  Teams have their own equipment managers and ball boys to handle such duties; under watch by NFL security.

[SouthernCal]

You are so dead-on with this statement... couldn't agree more. In the race to "break" news first, there's been a lot of carelessness and irresponsibility, and an overall lowering of standards in the industry. Reporters no longer have to wait for the next day's print run to deliver a story, and subsequently we see a lot of things that end up being anywhere from slightly to wildly inaccurate. Maybe, in the past, the time between a story breaking and a story running was enough time for things to be confirmed, corrected, verified, etc...

It's only gonna get worse, too!

It's so sad when I trust tmz more than espn.

[BrentMc11]

You are so dead-on with this statement... couldn't agree more. In the race to "break" news first, there's been a lot of carelessness and irresponsibility, and an overall lowering of standards in the industry. Reporters no longer have to wait for the next day's print run to deliver a story, and subsequently we see a lot of things that end up being anywhere from slightly to wildly inaccurate. Maybe, in the past, the time between a story breaking and a story running was enough time for things to be confirmed, corrected, verified, etc... 

 

It's only gonna get worse, too! 

And then there is Brian Williams.....

 

[radiogirl]

I like to read rival team's forums because the point of view is often so startlingly different than Patriots' fan forums. I find it sometimes embarrassing when Pats fans hang out in a rival team's forum and act like the team's spokesman but this obsession with Bad Morty being here on the part of some Colts' fans strikes me as real Midwestern hayseed stuff.

Sounds like you need another hobby.  Us midwestern hayseeds like to sit around and watch the corn grow.  Maybe you could try that!

[BrentMc11]

We only have Bully-gate to determine if their will be full transparency.  Wells has said his investigation will be made public.  He did not say if an NFL cleansing would be allowed on it first.  We may never see any of the videos either.  Finally, reporters are using Officials and league employee too loosely in their recap of leaked information.

 

What is a league employee if they are not an Official, main office staff, or internal or external security?  Ball handling lackey?  There isn't a need for such.  Teams have their own equipment managers and ball boys to handle such duties; under watch by NFL security.

Great to see you are on the PUP list now....OTAs?  

[Bad Morty]

Ohhhhh, so mystical....Come on Morty....why you gotta be so....BADDDDDD???????

 

ha! Yes I am an enigma wrapped in a riddle....it's a word puzzle. Not that tough...

[radiogirl]

ha! Yes I am an enigma wrapped in a riddle....it's a word puzzle. Not that tough...

Sorry......lost interest....

[BrentMc11]

ha! Yes I am an enigma wrapped in a riddle....it's a word puzzle. Not that tough...

EEny Meany Morty Mo...catch a deflated football by the toe?  

[JerodMayo51]

If it's ultimately discovered that the COLTS were tipped off that the Pats deflate their footballs and subsequently lowered the PSI of their INT ball ( to show a clearly under-inflated feel ) before turning it in to officials ...

WHAT SHOULD THE PUNISHMENT BE ?

A) Monetary fine

B) Fine / Loss of 1st round pick

C) Fine / Loss of 1st round pick / Suspensions for Coach and all involved .

D) All of the above - plus Pats get Colts 1st rounder .

The league and the Colts better hope that's not the reality. That takes things to a whole new level and I don't even know how you would weigh a punishment in that scenario but my guess is that it would be an unprecedented fine that far exceeds anything that had ever been levied before

[Bad Morty]

Sorry......lost interest....

 

your stalker skills say otherwise...

[Chucklez]

Love sipping my morning coffee to stuff like this, it's better than the cartoon comics section of the paper by far!

 

No, they can't. It's in the rule book that even if they were found guilty of tampering, it's a $20,000 fine.

The only way the fine would exceed that is if Kraft, Belichick or Brady were caught lying about their knowledge, and it's obvious to me that they aren't, because they wouldnt have come out and made such strong public statements if they knew they were guilty of something.

The Patriots have never lied about anything, and even after spygate broke out Belichick admitted to it and apologized. Kraft also made a public statement about it and accepted the NFLs punishment which he originally disagreed with but said after speaking with Goodell and hearing his reasoning behind it about setting a precedent (making an example of the Pats as warning to the rest of the league), that he would accept it and move on.

They aren't liars, they have no history or track record of lying or being dishonest. There is simply no way that they would have made such bold denials of this in a press conference that would make world news if they knew they were guilty of something.

Right.... Nothing there at all. This prolonged investigation is just for sh*ts and giggles then i suppose... And all of the ex NFL players who don't buy any of their excuses or denials are all in on some conspiracy against them...

[radiogirl]

your stalker skills say otherwise...

Stalker?  I'm on a Colts forum fan site because I'm a huge Colts fan!  What a concept!  I don't care about deflategate or the patriots.  I take issue with people like you that come onto a Colts fan site and start poking at people by saying Colts fans started this mess, we're a bunch of whiners, yadda yadda.  You have been poking at some people on this site that have been here for years, are good friends, and are incredibly knowledgeable in football.  I don't have a dog in this hunt.