Patriots investigation (merge)

[Nadine]

This thread reminds me of a Star Trek Episode. That's right, I say you are all doing some really lame fake fighting

[dw49]

LOL...

 

Man you do like pickin' fights don't you.

 

Where did I say anything about being persecuted? I said this guy is a hack. He's been in Boston as long as I can remember and has sucked at his job for the entire time. Well before Deflategate or anything else. 

 

Now it's time for you to somehow twist that all up and down and backwards and make me sound like a jerk, so... GO! 

 

Jesus .. you guys are really something else. Like you guys are not constantly saying the league comes down harder on the Pats than other teams. Like you say that any writer that talks negatively about Spygate is a *ic ignorant hack . I mean this is not exactly an example of this persecution but it kind of fits.

 

Go find JerodMayo and talk about how the maximum punishment is a 20K fine. At least I don't post nonsensical untruths and go hide when I'm called out on it.

[crazycolt1]

He's widely regarded as a great man for what he does outside of owning a football team. Like charitable and educational foundations. You know...real world stuff.

 

Stop hatin'

It's OK for you and a few Patriot fans to degrade the Colts owner but not the other way around? Irsay is well known for his generosity in charities. He gives a cool million every year to Riley Hospital for children. There have been a lot of times Irsay has shown up a Colts camp and passed out money to the people who come out to camp. But Patriot fans non stop talk about him like he was a dog because of his battle with pain killers from back surgeries. So don't chastise me when it's a two way street.

[bababooey]

Jesus .. you guys are really something else. Like you guys are not constantly saying the league comes down harder on the Pats than other teams. Like you say that any writer that talks negatively about Spygate is a *ic ignorant hack . I mean this is not exactly an example of this persecution but it kind of fits.

 

Go find JerodMayo and talk about how the maximum punishment is a 20K fine. At least I don't post nonsensical untruths and go hide when I'm called out on it.

Don't forget Virdulant who thinks squeezing the ball is NFL protocol because the dictionary doesn't specify a gauge as a tool.

[dw49]

Don't forget Virdulant who thinks squeezing the ball is NFL protocol because the dictionary doesn't specify a gauge as a tool.

 

Go Pats is actually one of the more reasonable guys . 

[Nadine]

I'm just going to keep removing posts since no body is listening to moderation

[dw49]

LOL...

 

Man you do like pickin' fights don't you.

 

Where did I say anything about being persecuted? I said this guy is a hack. He's been in Boston as long as I can remember and has sucked at his job for the entire time. Well before Deflategate or anything else. 

 

Now it's time for you to somehow twist that all up and down and backwards and make me sound like a jerk, so... GO! 

 

 

In all due respect , I was not trying to pick a fight. I'll take you aggressive post which the moderator has elected to keep in the thread as just a misunderstanding on your part. 

[ricker182]

Do yourself a favor and just read it. It's very well written.

And the situation is a huge mess. He's not lying.

[amfootball]

Borges states it pretty well....

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/ron_borges/2015/02/borges_deflategate_is_now_full_fledged_fiasco

Yes, good summation of this whole thing. His last line maybe captured this fiasco the best and how the results of the investigation will be received, "Where this leaves Deflategate is up to Ted Wells, but the only sure truth in it all is this: Whenever he’s done, nobody’s going to believe him. That’s what’s left of The Shield in Roger Goodell’s NFL."

[dw49]

Yes, good summation of this whole thing. His last line maybe captured this fiasco the best and how the results of the investigation will be received, "Where this leaves Deflategate is up to Ted Wells, but the only sure truth in it all is this: Whenever he’s done, nobody’s going to believe him. That’s what’s left of The Shield in Roger Goodell’s NFL."

 

 

If you but the pieces together with what appears to be truth , I think the only thing we know at this point is the following.

 

1) Chuck Pagano told a white lie. It also would appear that he and at least the Colts that spoke to the matter wish it was never brought up. 

 

2) The NFL botched this in what looks to be a spectacular manner. If you believe Grigson is not insane , the league or at least one representative of the league are or is a *.

 

1 and 2 IMO are pretty much fact. As far as the actual deflation case , we'll never get definitive closure to that. They might come out and say the Pats probably used air that was a little warmer than it should have been when they inflated the balls. Or they beat the daylight out of their footballs and "probably" knew they would have balls at the very lowest levels of compliance and probably a little below if the weather was cold. Or if it turns out that most of the balls were a tick under and the Colt balls were right on , we might conclude that there was nothing to this. If on the other hand all the Colt balls were a few ticks above and the Pats had multiple balls significantly lower . you have got feel it just doesn't make sense. 

 

Also what in God's name is the reason this investigation needs this amount of time ? 

[amfootball]

If you but the pieces together with what appears to be truth , I think the only thing we know at this point is the following.

 

1) Chuck Pagano told a white lie. It also would appear that he and at least the Colts that spoke to the matter wish it was never brought up. 

 

2) The NFL botched this in what looks to be a spectacular manner. If you believe Grigson is not insane , the league or at least one representative of the league are or is a *.

 

1 and 2 IMO are pretty much fact. As far as the actual deflation case , we'll never get definitive closure to that. They might come out and say the Pats probably used air that was a little warmer than it should have been when they inflated the balls. Or they beat the daylight out of their footballs and "probably" knew they would have balls at the very lowest levels of compliance and probably a little below if the weather was cold. Or if it turns out that most of the balls were a tick under and the Colt balls were right on , we might conclude that there was nothing to this. If on the other hand all the Colt balls were a few ticks above and the Pats had multiple balls significantly lower . you have got feel it just doesn't make sense. 

 

Also what in God's name is the reason this investigation needs this amount of time ? 

Excellent summation. I could not agree more about the Colts from Pagano to the players, it seems they are embarrassed that this was brought up and have been trying to distance themselves. I don’t blame Pagano for lying. He seems like a straight up guy who would not want to have this circus around ball inflation. I do wonder if he and Grigson are having some tough conversations about this.

 

In terms of the NFL, they were going to look royally bad as soon as they decided an issue of this matter needed to be investigated. I can’t figure out for the life of me why they didn’t just say something to the Pats prior to the game. Bill did admit during his science press conference that because the team has the balls inflated to the minimum limit that any change in air pressure due to weather would make them fall out of compliance. If the league had said something to him about Grigson’s concern than he could have made sure the balls were inflated higher. It is this aspect that has so many Pats fans outraged. As it looks like they were trying to set the Pats up over a violation that is a slap on the wrist in the handbook.

 

You are probably right about the investigation turning up something plausible about why the balls lost air. I also think the official getting fired for selling the balls for profit may just be the tip of the iceberg in terms of what they find out on the league and their ball handling issues. My feeling is that part of the investigation about the official being fired never would have seen light of day had ESPN not gone after McNally. Kraft is not playing here. As soon as the OTL report came out, he went right to Schefty and gave him the scoop and I am sure told Goodell that if this investigation continues to have these erroneous leaks, he will air it all.

 

I think it is taking so long because they are trying to placate the other 31 owners who believe the Pats bend the rules. I get that to a certain extent but that is why you never let this issue out the way they have. What a terrible mismanagement all around. I didn’t think the league could look anymore incompetent after the Rice case but I was wrong.

 

Funny story. They were saying on the radio here that for years the FBI tried to get Capone on murder charges, bootlegging, brothels and in the end he went to jail for tax evasion. You have to wonder if Goodell could have the same fate – he messed up spygate, bountygate, Rice, all huge issues, and in the end he could lose his job over air ball pressure. You really can’t make this stuff up. Lol.

 

[radiogirl]

 

Excellent summation. I could not agree more about the Colts from Pagano to the players, it seems they are embarrassed that this was brought up and have been trying to distance themselves. I don’t blame Pagano for lying. He seems like a straight up guy who would not want to have this circus around ball inflation. I do wonder if he and Grigson are having some tough conversations about this.

 

 

 

In terms of the NFL, they were going to look royally bad as soon as they decided an issue of this matter needed to be investigated. I can’t figure out for the life of me why they didn’t just say something to the Pats prior to the game. Bill did admit during his science press conference that because the team has the balls inflated to the minimum limit that any change in air pressure due to weather would make them fall out of compliance. If the league had said something to him about Grigson’s concern than he could have made sure the balls were inflated higher. It is this aspect that has so many Pats fans outraged. As it looks like they were trying to set the Pats up over a violation that is a slap on the wrist in the handbook.

 

 

 

You are probably right about the investigation turning up something plausible about why the balls lost air. I also think the official getting fired for selling the balls for profit may just be the tip of the iceberg in terms of what they find out on the league and their ball handling issues. My feeling is that part of the investigation about the official being fired never would have seen light of day had ESPN not gone after McNally. Kraft is not playing here. As soon as the OTL report came out, he went right to Schefty and gave him the scoop and I am sure told Goodell that if this investigation continues to have these erroneous leaks, he will air it all.

 

 

I think it is taking so long because they are trying to placate the other 31 owners who believe the Pats bend the rules. I get that to a certain extent but that is why you never let this issue out the way they have. What a terrible mismanagement all around. I didn’t think the league could look anymore incompetent after the Rice case but I was wrong.

 

 

 

Funny story. They were saying on the radio here that for years the FBI tried to get Capone on murder charges, bootlegging, brothels and in the end he went to jail for tax evasion. You have to wonder if Goodell could have the same fate – he messed up spygate, bountygate, Rice, all huge issues, and in the end he could lose his job over air ball pressure. You really can’t make this stuff up. Lol.

 

 

 

You bring up an interesting point I hadn't thought about.  I'm sure other owners are weighing in on this so everyone is on as much of the same page as possible.  But, had the NFL laid out when they found out about it exactly how they planned to handle it; I don't think they would have lost so much credibility.  The whole thing is a circus.

[Bad Morty]

I also find it extremely circumspect, how the narrative changes after every leak.

Examples;

Leak: 11 of 12 balls are 2 psi under regulation.

Reason given for anomaly: cold weather caused it. Every C- physics student was showing how the ball could lose up to 3 psi by game time.

Leak: All balls except one were just a tick under.

Reason given for anomoly: nothing happened except for the one ball. That ball must have been deflated by the Colts.

This is an example of the moving goal posts in this thing. All of a sudden in the middle of a physics frenzy, people abandon the idea for no reason. So which is it? Did the weather cause deflation or not?

I think you have the timeline confused...there was a leak about all 11 balls being 2lbs under...then the Patriots responded with a  press conference outlining how their process and the weather was found to account for 1 lb of pressure loss....which left everyone thinking "OK...but the report is that the balls lost 2lbs"...then after that, the stories on how much pressure loss occurred all started to suggest that the first report was wrong and/or highly exaggerated. The Patritots story has been consistent. They are saying 2 basic things:

 

1) they believe the balls could deflate 1lb due to natural causes

2) they did not under any circumstances violate league rules by tampering with balls after the refs had certified them for play.

 

They haven't wavered from that one bit, and the leaks since then have all pretty much served to support their story.

[AndreRison]

I think you have the timeline confused...there was a leak about all 11 balls being 2lbs under...then the Patriots responded with a press conference outlining how their process and the weather was found to account for 1 lb of pressure loss....which left everyone thinking "OK...but the report is that the balls lost 2lbs"...then after that, the stories on how much pressure loss occurred all started to suggest that the first report was wrong and/or highly exaggerated. The Patritots story has been consistent. They are saying 2 basic things:

1) they believe the balls could deflate 1lb due to natural causes

2) they did not under any circumstances violate league rules by tampering with balls after the refs had certified them for play.

They haven't wavered from that one bit, and the leaks since then have all pretty much served to support their story.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. The leaks I gave were the initial Mortenson leak, and the most recent Rappaport leak. Basically, the first leak about the condition of the balls and last leak about the condition of the balls. My point was, everybody defending the Patriots were saying the weather caused the 2 psi loss, but now all of a sudden, everybody's just abandoned the science since the Rappaport leak. I mean physics doesn't change with every new rumor. The same people that were defending the Patriots with the weather nonsense, are now to the point where they're accusing the Colts of deflating one ball. I mean why abandon the physics now? Schefter was all over sports radio claiming the weather caused the deflation, now he's going on about the Colts deflated one ball. It seems to me Schefter is a Patriots fan and uses the weather when it suits him. A breaking sports news reporter who's supposed to be objective. Hes not the only one, but just a prime example.

By the way, there were Patriot defenders all over the place saying 2 psi could be accounted for by weather, alone.

[ViriLudant]

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. The leaks I gave were the initial Mortenson leak, and the most recent Rappaport leak. Basically, the first leak about the condition of the balls and last leak about the condition of the balls. My point was, everybody defending the Patriots were saying the weather caused the 2 psi loss, but now all of a sudden, everybody's just abandoned the science since the Rappaport leak. I mean physics doesn't change with every new rumor. The same people that were defending the Patriots with the weather nonsense, are now to the point where they're accusing the Colts of deflating one ball. I mean why abandon the physics now? Schefter was all over sports radio claiming the weather caused the deflation, now he's going on about the Colts deflated one ball. It seems to me Schefter is a Patriots fan and uses the weather when it suits him. A breaking sports news reporter who's supposed to be objective. Hes not the only one, but just a prime example.

By the way, there were Patriot defenders all over the place saying 2 psi could be accounted for by weather, alone.

Except that none of this is accurate.

Schefter has never said that a Colt member deflated the ball. Never.

No one has said that the weather contributed to 2 full PSI of air lost. More in the 1-1.25 range after an hour or so.

[dw49]

Except that none of this is accurate.

Schefter has never said that a Colt member deflated the ball. Never.

No one has said that the weather contributed to 2 full PSI of air lost. More in the 1-1.25 range after an hour or so.

 

 

I think the issue that is most difficult to explain is if Pat balls deflated as much as 1.25(forget the one at 2LBs) due to weather , why did all the Colt balls stay over the limit ? Seems really strange that if the maximum PSI allowed is 13.5 and some of the Pat balls were over 1LB under the 12.5 min . , that a few of the Colt balls would at least be a tick under 12.5 . No...? I'm going by the report that SEEMS to indicate the following. 1 Ball 2PSI under , many just a bit below and it seems to say that the remaining ones were from 1 to 1.25 under. Maybe that's not the case but if it is , it seems like the weather affected the Pat balls more than the Colts balls.

Also I would think that it's  unlikely that all the Colt balls were pumped up to the max of 13.5 PSI. Possible but you think maybe that would have leaked out ? Also if that were the case , I would think the officials would remember it as this investigation started at half time. So even though they didn't document the PSI of the Colt balls , I would think Anderson would remember the next morning that they all measured in at the very max. Now if all the Colt balls actually did start out at 13.5 and there was only the one ball that measured more than 1LB under the 12.5 , then really looks to be no issue. If otherwise , it would explain why this investigation is still ongoing.

[bababooey]

Except that none of this is accurate.

Schefter has never said that a Colt member deflated the ball. Never.

No one has said that the weather contributed to 2 full PSI of air lost. More in the 1-1.25 range after an hour or so.

MIT did if you don't recall

[AndreRison]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=jmDpVJOEOMuxsASPtoCICQ&url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DCxsXFX3tDpg&ved=0CDcQtwIwCQ&usg=AFQjCNFv20_RjwScMyaWA3sFUbDqb_dTtA&sig2=BnsvkS7d8haAjqyVj6l8Dw

[amfootball]

I think the issue that is most difficult to explain is if Pat balls deflated as much as 1.25(forget the one at 2LBs) due to weather , why did all the Colt balls stay over the limit ? Seems really strange that if the maximum PSI allowed is 13.5 and some of the Pat balls were over 1LB under the 12.5 min . , that a few of the Colt balls would at least be a tick under 12.5 . No...? I'm going by the report that SEEMS to indicate the following. 1 Ball 2PSI under , many just a bit below and it seems to say that the remaining ones were from 1 to 1.25 under. Maybe that's not the case but if it is , it seems like the weather affected the Pat balls more than the Colts balls.

Also I would think that it's  unlikely that all the Colt balls were pumped up to the max of 13.5 PSI. Possible but you think maybe that would have leaked out ? Also if that were the case , I would think the officials would remember it as this investigation started at half time. So even though they didn't document the PSI of the Colt balls , I would think Anderson would remember the next morning that they all measured in at the very max. Now if all the Colt balls actually did start out at 13.5 and there was only the one ball that measured more than 1LB under the 12.5 , then really looks to be no issue. If otherwise , it would explain why this investigation is still ongoing.

Bill explained in his science press conference by saying the Pats prepare their balls differently and that the preparation raises the ball 1 psi before inflation so when the balls are then placed outside they reach equilibrium at 1 psi less. Whether you believe him or not is irrelevant. His explanation suggests that the Pats balls lost air or more air than the Colts balls. Not sure how anyone can get around that. It can still be physics as Bill's suggests but there is no denying the discrepancy and is one of the main reasons I would think that this was even an issue and now under investigation.

[Bad Morty]

I think the issue that is most difficult to explain is if Pat balls deflated as much as 1.25(forget the one at 2LBs) due to weather , why did all the Colt balls stay over the limit ? Seems really strange that if the maximum PSI allowed is 13.5 and some of the Pat balls were over 1LB under the 12.5 min . , that a few of the Colt balls would at least be a tick under 12.5 . No...? I'm going by the report that SEEMS to indicate the following. 1 Ball 2PSI under , many just a bit below and it seems to say that the remaining ones were from 1 to 1.25 under. Maybe that's not the case but if it is , it seems like the weather affected the Pat balls more than the Colts balls.

Also I would think that it's  unlikely that all the Colt balls were pumped up to the max of 13.5 PSI. Possible but you think maybe that would have leaked out ? Also if that were the case , I would think the officials would remember it as this investigation started at half time. So even though they didn't document the PSI of the Colt balls , I would think Anderson would remember the next morning that they all measured in at the very max. Now if all the Colt balls actually did start out at 13.5 and there was only the one ball that measured more than 1LB under the 12.5 , then really looks to be no issue. If otherwise , it would explain why this investigation is still ongoing.

Where are we getting the "from 1 to 1.25 under" reports? I have not yet heard that one.

 

If the last 2 reports (Schefter and Florio) are to be believed, we now have Kensil himself doing the half-time testing of the balls without the game officials being involved. It also seems to be the case that Kensil is very strongly connected to at least one of the leaks that has spun the story negatively for the Pats (his connection to the Naqi story can't be overlooked). So in my mind, what seems to be emerging is a narrative that Kensil acting without the refs knowledge came to that game with the intention of trying to catch the Pats red-handed at something. He found some balls at halftime that were under the limit to some extent or other and he presumed that he had nailed them..so the story gets leaked, the circus begins, and as time goes by we are learning that Kensil probably didn't think this thing through enough. He probably figured that just the fact that there were balls below the limit at halftime would be all the evidence anybody needed, but as it turns out there are scientific explanations that introduce very reasonable doubt to the story that the balls were tampered with, AND there is no physical or video evidence that the balls were tampered with....and here we are.

[dw49]

Where are we getting the "from 1 to 1.25 under" reports? I have not yet heard that one.

 

If the last 2 reports (Schefter and Florio) are to be believed, we now have Kensil himself doing the half-time testing of the balls without the game officials being involved. It also seems to be the case that Kensil is very strongly connected to at least one of the leaks that has spun the story negatively for the Pats (his connection to the Naqi story can't be overlooked). So in my mind, what seems to be emerging is a narrative that Kensil acting without the refs knowledge came to that game with the intention of trying to catch the Pats red-handed at something. He found some balls at halftime that were under the limit to some extent or other and he presumed that he had nailed them..so the story gets leaked, the circus begins, and as time goes by we are learning that Kensil probably didn't think this thing through enough. He probably figured that just the fact that there were balls below the limit at halftime would be all the evidence anybody needed, but as it turns out there are scientific explanations that introduce very reasonable doubt to the story that the balls were tampered with, AND there is no physical or video evidence that the balls were tampered with....and here we are.

 

What I read where the balls that did not fall into the "many category" were as much as alb to 1.25 pounds under. Most Pat fans took the many to mean the remaining 11 but that's not the case. I don't think there was a report that said exactly what the balls that fell into that category measured at. I did read that what I stated was the case but I really don't remember where it was. If that wasn't the case then there probably is no issue. If you read my post , I state this clearly and give credence to both arguments. Something that you won't find in one post from you people.

[dw49]

Bill explained in his science press conference by saying the Pats prepare their balls differently and that the preparation raises the ball 1 psi before inflation so when the balls are then placed outside they reach equilibrium at 1 psi less. Whether you believe him or not is irrelevant. His explanation suggests that the Pats balls lost air or more air than the Colts balls. Not sure how anyone can get around that. It can still be physics as Bill's suggests but there is no denying the discrepancy and is one of the main reasons I would think that this was even an issue and now under investigation.

 

 

Yeah.. yeah.. yeah. I didn't forget that nonsense. I mean which is it. Brady like a deflated ball. So they probably 99% sure inflate them to 12.5. Bill says they do this amazing kinking that crap out of them which almost makes them explode and at least raises the PSI temporarily 1LB. Then he goes on to say that the weather drops them another pound. So why would some balls be a tick under , one be 2 lbs under and the rest whatever. Which is it ? My opinion is they didn't let air out of the balls after they were tested. But I do wonder what caused Grigson to have issue before hand ? Many times where there's smoke , there's fire. So I will hold my final judgement until the report comes out. Probably will be total crap but should have at least a little something to answer the obvious questions.

[Bad Morty]

What I read where the balls that did not fall into the "many category" were as much as alb to 1.25 pounds under. Most Pat fans took the many to mean the remaining 11 but that's not the case. I don't think there was a report that said exactly what the balls that fell into that category measured at. I did read that what I stated was the case but I really don't remember where it was. If that wasn't the case then there probably is no issue. If you read my post , I state this clearly and give credence to both arguments. Something that you won't find in one post from you people.

"you people"? Ok then...When/if the NFL actually releases credible information on exactly what the weights of the balls were at halftime, how they were measured pre-game (actual gauge in each and every ball or or "feels ok to me"), etc, I'll render an official judgment as to whether or not I believe the Patriots violated any rules. If there is a believable story that clearly shows that the balls were at 12.5 pre game and were so far  deflated at halftime as to stretch the bounds of believability that it happened naturally, then I will acknowledge that wrong-doing very likely happened. If they did it, then they did it...I have no issue accepting that. But there is really not a lot of evidence out there to suggest they did anything wrong at this point. Just the opposite, to be fair.

[dw49]

"you people"? Ok then...When/if the NFL actually releases credible information on exactly what the weights of the balls were at halftime, how they were measured pre-game (actual gauge in each and every ball or or "feels ok to me"), etc, I'll render an official judgment as to whether or not I believe the Patriots violated any rules. If there is a believable story that clearly shows that the balls were at 12.5 pre game and were so far  deflated at halftime as to stretch the bounds of believability that it happened natural

[AndreRison]

What I read where the balls that did not fall into the "many category" were as much as alb to 1.25 pounds under. Most Pat fans took the many to mean the remaining 11 but that's not the case. I don't think there was a report that said exactly what the balls that fell into that category measured at. I did read that what I stated was the case but I really don't remember where it was. If that wasn't the case then there probably is no issue. If you read my post , I state this clearly and give credence to both arguments. Something that you won't find in one post from you people.

Rapaport said there were

3-4 that were a tick under, 3-4 that were a lb or more, and 1 that was two lbs under. He's leaving out 3-4 more.

[dw49]

Rapaport said there were

3-4 that were a tick under, 3-4 that were a lb or more, and 1 that was two lbs under. He's leaving out 3-4 more.

 That's what I read somewhere .Only I read many instead of 3-4 on the tick under. Not sure if it was really Rapoprt that said that , I think it may have been another source quoting what he reported. Whether or not the other source "embellished "the 1LB or more , I don't know.

[AndreRison]

That's what I read somewhere .Only I read many instead of 3-4 on the tick under. Not sure if it was really Rapoprt that said that , I think it may have been another source quoting what he reported. Whether or not the other source "embellished "the 1LB or more , I don't know.

It was Rapaport being interviewed by Rich Eisen.

[amfootball]

Yeah.. yeah.. yeah. I didn't forget that nonsense. I mean which is it. Brady like a deflated ball. So they probably 99% sure inflate them to 12.5. Bill says they do this amazing kinking that crap out of them which almost makes them explode and at least raises the PSI temporarily 1LB. Then he goes on to say that the weather drops them another pound. So why would some balls be a tick under , one be 2 lbs under and the rest whatever. Which is it ? My opinion is they didn't let air out of the balls after they were tested. But I do wonder what caused Grigson to have issue before hand ? Many times where there's smoke , there's fire. So I will hold my final judgement until the report comes out. Probably will be total crap but should have at least a little something to answer the obvious questions.

I don't know. Depends which report you believe in terms of the air pressure. Bill's explanation IMO means that there were at least several balls between 1 to 1 and a half psi under as that is what he was explaining so that is what he must have been told. We also know the Pats balls were inflated to 12.5 as both he and Brady confirmed that number. That is all we know. We have no information at all on the Colts balls so really everything is conjecture.

 

There is enough there to warrant this investigation so we believe but given all the contractions and the rogue ref, who knows anymore. I was just trying to underscore what we can reasonably infer given Bill's PC as that sheds the most light on what the league found that first week.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Bill explained in his science press conference by saying the Pats prepare their balls differently and that the preparation raises the ball 1 psi before inflation so when the balls are then placed outside they reach equilibrium at 1 psi less. Whether you believe him or not is irrelevant. His explanation suggests that the Pats balls lost air or more air than the Colts balls. Not sure how anyone can get around that. It can still be physics as Bill's suggests but there is no denying the discrepancy and is one of the main reasons I would think that this was even an issue and now under investigation.

 

You can bet for certain the 'ball prep ' methods by both teams are being investigated and tested for accuracy and pressure drops..  Myth Busters style.  The setup the prep, delivery to officials, pressure check, hold for 2 hours and 15 minutes, then deliver to outside conditions such as was at the game.  Then take measurements again.  If they don't do this and take Bill (Nye the science guy) Belichick's word for it, then the investigation is a sham.

 

At minimum, Pat's were guilty of this-

 

"In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors...  (there's at least 12 Pats balls and 12 Colts balls at game time, and 8 K balls.  Possibly twice an illegal ball was introduced into play, only to be spotted at some point and taken back out.  See below-)

 

Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable  ( approved )  balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing

field

 

Wells report should be interesting to say the least.

[dw49]

I don't know. Depends which report you believe in terms of the air pressure. Bill's explanation IMO means that there were at least several balls between 1 to 1 and a half psi under as that is what he was explaining so that is what he must have been told. We also know the Pats balls were inflated to 12.5 as both he and Brady confirmed that number. That is all we know. We have no information at all on the Colts balls so really everything is conjecture.

 

There is enough there to warrant this investigation so we believe but given all the contractions and the rogue ref, who knows anymore. I was just trying to underscore what we can reasonably infer given Bill's PC as that sheds the most light on what the league found that first week.

 

 

Yeah and fair enough. Just so much we don't have a clue of. I would really like to know what promoted Grigson to notify the league in the first place. Then an approximation of what the Colt balls measured.. I know not documented but if all at 13.5 , Anderson should have that recollection considering just s few hours involved. Then I guess you compare the 3"s to what they found at halftime and consider that no balls went under the PSI in the second half. When you look at all this , there really is a lack of evidence that NE did anything but on the other hand , there's a lot of stuff that "COULD" end up very tough to swallow. I say could as we need more info to really judge that one.

[amfootball]

You can bet for certain the 'ball prep ' methods by both teams are being investigated and tested for accuracy and pressure drops..  Myth Busters style.  The setup the prep, delivery to officials, pressure check, hold for 2 hours and 15 minutes, then deliver to outside conditions such as was at the game.  Then take measurements again.  If they don't do this and take Bill (Nye the science guy) Belichick's word for it, then the investigation is a sham.

 

At minimum, Pat's were guilty of this-

 

"n the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors...  (there's at least 12 Pats balls and 12 Colts balls at game time, and 8 K balls.  Possibly twice an illegal ball was introduced into play, only to be spotted at some point and taken back out.  See below-)

 

NNote: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable  ( approved )  balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing

field

 

Wells report should be interesting to say the least.

The Pats had 24 balls for the game given the bad conditions so they had enough balls for play. The question is were the other 12 balls not played with at proper psi levels? I think those 12 balls hold as much significance as the Colts balls if they did not change pressure unless they were not prepped the same as the 12 game balls as they are reserves.

 

I agree with your first graph as well. The league has to be able to deny's Bill explanation of the ball prep to try to imply tampering. I am assuming that is why they went to Columbia to get a physics professors thoughts on what is plausible.

[amfootball]

Yeah and fair enough. Just so much we don't have a clue of. I would really like to know what promoted Grigson to notify the league in the first place. Then an approximation of what the Colt balls measured.. I know not documented but if all at 13.5 , Anderson should have that recollection considering just s few hours involved. Then I guess you compare the 3"s to what they found at halftime and consider that no balls went under the PSI in the second half. When you look at all this , there really is a lack of evidence that NE did anything but on the other hand , there's a lot of stuff that "COULD" end up very tough to swallow. I say could as we need more info to really judge that one.

Yes, the fact that Grigson said something before the game holds the most key here in terms of the Pats balls being under weight. Did someone like Pagano tip Grigson off? If yes, how did Pagano know? It begs the question if another team has gauged the Pats balls after a turnover or perhaps knows someone on the inside of the Pats org that knows Brady likes a light ball? That is the most fascinating part of the story. I can't believe no one asked Grigson what or who tipped him off prior to the game.

[ColtsBlueFL]

The Pats had 24 balls for the game given the bad conditions so they had enough balls for play. The question is were the other 12 balls not played with at proper psi levels? I think those 12 balls hold as much significance as the Colts balls if they did not change pressure unless they were not prepped the same as the 12 game balls as they are reserves.

 

I agree with your first graph as well. The league has to be able to deny's Bill explanation of the ball prep to try to imply tampering. I am assuming that is why they went to Columbia to get a physics professors thoughts on what is plausible.

Yes, that is why I said at least 12 balls, but since it is an outdoor stadium, I do think the league requires the home team to supply 24 instead of an indoor teams 12.  But all 24 must also be delivered to the Referee for pre-game pressure check and approval markings.  You can't just have 12 more unapproved balls hanging out on the sidelines.  Those are "unplayable" balls.  They can not be used unless/until all approved Patriots and Colts approved ball supplies are exhausted.  At which point the commissioner is to be informed.  I'm not sure if the pressure would be checked before introducing a previously non-approved ball, but I assume so.

[dw49]

Yes, the fact that Grigson said something before the game holds the most key here in terms of the Pats balls being under weight. Did someone like Pagano tip Grigson off? If yes, how did Pagano know? It begs the question if another team has gauged the Pats balls after a turnover or perhaps knows someone on the inside of the Pats org that knows Brady likes a light ball? That is the most fascinating part of the story. I can't believe no one asked Grigson what or who tipped him off prior to the game.

 

I think that will probably come out in the investigation. It really would not be very courageous of Grigson to divulge anything that puts NE in a bad light at this point in time. Furthermore it could be just unsubstantiated junk that someone passed on to him.

[AndreRison]

Well I think we know where Grigson got his information. It was the previous Colts V Patriots game, back in November.

[AndreRison]

I think the Colts stayed hushed for the regular season game. Then nothing happens, and it seems to have happened again in the AFC championship game. I think we can infer from that, the Colts leaked the story to Kravitz. They wanted this investigated...not swept under the rug... like it was back in November.

[ViriLudant]

You can bet for certain the 'ball prep ' methods by both teams are being investigated and tested for accuracy and pressure drops.. Myth Busters style. The setup the prep, delivery to officials, pressure check, hold for 2 hours and 15 minutes, then deliver to outside conditions such as was at the game. Then take measurements again. If they don't do this and take Bill (Nye the science guy) Belichick's word for it, then the investigation is a sham.

At minimum, Pat's were guilty of this-

"In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors... (there's at least 12 Pats balls and 12 Colts balls at game time, and 8 K balls. Possibly twice an illegal ball was introduced into play, only to be spotted at some point and taken back out. See below-)

Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable ( approved ) balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing

field

Wells report should be interesting to say the least.

Except that it was a ref, not s Patriots employee, that tried to introduce an illegal ball.

[ViriLudant]

Well I think we know where Grigson got his information. It was the previous Colts V Patriots game, back in November.

I thought that Pagano et al. have already denied this...? Or am I mistaken?

[AndreRison]

I thought that Pagano et al. have already denied this...? Or am I mistaken?

Pagano may have, I don't know. Grigson has not. Matter of fact Grigson has admitted he knew before the AFCCG.

[AndreRison]

Except that none of this is accurate.

Schefter has never said that a Colt member deflated the ball. Never.

No one has said that the weather contributed to 2 full PSI of air lost. More in the 1-1.25 range after an hour or so.

When the radio station told Schefter:"OK Adam, here’s the latest. The Colts deflated the one ball that D’Qwell Jackson intercepted, and all the other balls were just a tick under."

Schefter said four Times..."There are people who believe that."

The first part is just a conspiracy theory, but the second part is a lie. All other balls were not reported to just be a tick under. The media who's pushing that narrative are linking to Rapaport. Rapaport didn't say that. You don't see Schefter correcting them. Even Rapaport's not correcting any of this.

As far as the full 2 psi drop, I linked a video that's trying to show that exact thing.