this new emphasis on defensive holding and pass interference is destroying the game

[CR91]

this is demoralizing to DBs when they cant even breathe on the WR without getting called. such crap like what happen in the charger raven game where clearly floyd was holding the DB and yet the call goes against the ravens leading to the go ahead game winning TD or the pats packer game where eldman just runs into the DB and the packers get called for defensive holding. this needs to stop and let them play football

[MJD42]

I don't like it but it's not stopping. Players know the rules so they have to abide by them. The push-offs by Packer receivers was stunning and they were never called once.

[CR91]

I don't like it but it's not stopping. Players know the rules so they have to abide by them. The push-offs by Packer receivers was stunning and they were never called once.

 

neither was revis grabbing on nelson way past the 5 yards. defensive holding is fine when its the right call, but you got wrs turning around asking for a flag every time they cant make the catch and 9 times out of 10 the refs throw the flag

[MJD42]

neither was revis grabbing on nelson way past the 5 yards

I didn't see any grabbing by Revis but I saw him get pushed off like the other DBs all day. They were blatant and not one was called. 

[CR91]

I didn't see any grabbing by Revis but I saw him get pushed off like the other DBs all day. They were blatant and not one was called. 

 

you werent watching revis then. your point is my point though. WRs are getting too much lenience when it comes to calls being made

[BrentMc11]

The one thing I hate is when a receiver (Edelman) eyeballs an official....2 seconds later the flag comes in.  Then the penalty is called.

 

"Before the pass, defensive holding, number blah blah blah"  Ridiculous IMO.

[SteelCityColt]

I don't object to some of the calls, that's the new rules and if you break em the flag is going to get thrown. I don't think it's been quite as bad as it looked like it would be from pre-season . ColtsBlue was tracking the numbers at one point I know.

 

What I DO object to is the WRs not making a reception, gesticulating to the refs and then getting a flag. 

[B~Town]

What bother me is how inconstant it is guys like Toler get ticky tacky calls on regular basis but guys like Revis known as lock down corners get a lot more leeway . Also as mentioned the late flags after a play a guy lays on the ground begs for a flag then there it comes .

[Blue Horseshoe]

I have no problem whatsoever calling the games according to the letter of the rules. 

What I can't stand is the incredible inconsistency from one crew to another and from one player to another.

[Narcosys]

There are bad calls yes. But I much rather punish DB'S for blatant holdings and such like what Seattle did last year. No problem with it at all.

[Moose Of Woe]

The problem isn't the rules. The problem is the inconsistency enforcing them.

 

If the officials got it right 99% of the time like they should, players would learn to play properly. Now they play with as much as they can get away with walking lines.

[Moose Of Woe]

I have no problem whatsoever calling the games according to the letter of the rules. 

What I can't stand is the incredible inconsistency from one crew to another and from one player to another.

Beat me to it.

 

Granted it's often a judgement call, but the judgement call would be eliminated if they called it at any sign of it being a foul. Not allowing it to go  "if they only grab to this point" or "only a little bit" or whatnot.

 

There is too much left up to the opinions of zebras with no accountability to get the damn calls right. Rules need to be cut and dry and zebras need to enforce them. Always.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

this is demoralizing to DBs when they cant even breathe on the WR without getting called. such crap like what happen in the charger raven game where clearly floyd was holding the DB and yet the call goes against the ravens leading to the go ahead game winning TD or the pats packer game where eldman just runs into the DB and the packers get called for defensive holding. this needs to stop and let them play football

Go back and look at that play.  The defender had his right arm wrapped around Floyd's back ahead of the throw and during the entire rest of the play, prior to any of the other tusseling.  If I remember correctly (I haven't looked at it this morning) he even pulls his jersey with it.  

 

The second point I would make is that at least this officiating crew was at least consistent throughout the game, they called a couple on us that were equally questionable.

[GoPats]

The latest "point of emphasis" has had a severely negative impact, in my opinion. 

 

Ask yourself what you do when you're watching a game and your team comes up with a big 3rd down stop on an incomplete pass. You wait, right? Hold your breath for a sec, making sure you don't start celebrating before you see a flag come flying in, right? That, quite frankly, sucks. 

 

PI and defensive holding calls are subjective, so there will never be consistency from crew to crew, or even from play to play. I've seen ridiculous calls all season long, both in the Patriots' favor and against it. 

 

It's nearly impossible to cover today's NFL receivers without contact. I'm not sure what was so "broken" that the NFL felt they needed to fix it. Personally I think this is all about feeding the multi-billion-dollar fantasy football world. 

[dgambill]

Just be consistant...thats all I ask...and yeah the late calls sometimes from a line judge 30 yds downfield is laughable at times....but I also don't like how we see sometimes the defensive player jam the receiver 5 YDS DOWNFIELD....which is fine and within the rule....but then still fight with him 5 MORE yds down field. I hate that...and A LOT  get away with it. Hit him at the line and fight 5-7yds ok...but when the receiver is going down the field already and then start it??? I don't like that one. But yes be consistant and please call it right away if its there...not 5 seconds after the play is over and the receiver cries.

[dgambill]

The latest "point of emphasis" has had a severely negative impact, in my opinion. 

 

Ask yourself what you do when you're watching a game and your team comes up with a big 3rd down stop on an incomplete pass. You wait, right? Hold your breath for a sec, making sure you don't start celebrating before you see a flag come flying in, right? That, quite frankly, sucks. 

 

PI and defensive holding calls are subjective, so there will never be consistency from crew to crew, or even from play to play. I've seen ridiculous calls all season long, both in the Patriots' favor and against it. 

 

It's nearly impossible to cover today's NFL receivers without contact. I'm not sure what was so "broken" that the NFL felt they needed to fix it. Personally I think this is all about feeding the multi-billion-dollar fantasy football world. 

I agree and disagree...I don't mind the physical play at the line of scrimmage but when a receiver is trying make a break on his route and the defender grabs or would bump the receiver it was making it impossible to have any timing or resemblance of a route..because it was the hits and grabs 10yds down the field when a qb was ready to throw the ball or a receiver was breaking on his route. It was a way for a lesser gifted athlete to even the playing field. Obviously it was done to increase scoring and to open up the game and draw more fans....just like hand checking in college or pro basketball etc...the result I think has made games much more enjoyable to watch for fans and yes those fantasy people. The result is more money for owners and players. Some teams benefited some didn't take advantage of it. Some like Seattle still play the same physical football as ever because they know the refs won't call it everytime and will take a couple calls to start changing the physicality in the way the game is being called any given night....so it hasn't shut down coverage all together. We still see the best corners the Revis's, Sherman's, Davis's etc of the league still be elite....because they have the gifts to do it without fouling...the avg to below avg guys....they get burnt like toast. Overall if it was just called consistantly I would be happy...but I enjoy the league and while the scoring has gone up...we see a fair amount of low scoring games every week regardless. It hasn't ruined the game....it certainly hasn't turned the NFL into College football where every game is a 100 pt affair.

[GoPats]

I agree and disagree...I don't mind the physical play at the line of scrimmage but when a receiver is trying make a break on his route and the defender grabs or would bump the receiver it was making it impossible to have any timing or resemblance of a route..because it was the hits and grabs 10yds down the field when a qb was ready to throw the ball or a receiver was breaking on his route. It was a way for a lesser gifted athlete to even the playing field. Obviously it was done to increase scoring and to open up the game and draw more fans....just like hand checking in college or pro basketball etc...the result I think has made games much more enjoyable to watch for fans and yes those fantasy people. The result is more money for owners and players. Some teams benefited some didn't take advantage of it. Some like Seattle still play the same physical football as ever because they know the refs won't call it everytime and will take a couple calls to start changing the physicality in the way the game is being called any given night....so it hasn't shut down coverage all together. We still see the best corners the Revis's, Sherman's, Davis's etc of the league still be elite....because they have the gifts to do it without fouling...the avg to below avg guys....they get burnt like toast. Overall if it was just called consistantly I would be happy...but I enjoy the league and while the scoring has gone up...we see a fair amount of low scoring games every week regardless. It hasn't ruined the game....it certainly hasn't turned the NFL into College football where every game is a 100 pt affair.

 

All fair points; I wouldn't want to see things get out of hand either. I just don't think it's good for the future of the game. (And I don't want to watch an NFL where guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick toss 6 TDs in a single game, lol...)

[TAPLOOK]

The one thing I hate is when a receiver (Edelman) eyeballs an official....2 seconds later the flag comes in.  Then the penalty is called.

 

"Before the pass, defensive holding, number blah blah blah"  Ridiculous IMO.

 

 

It was the correct call and name me a receiver that doesn't look to the refs most of the time.

[JerodMayo51]

The latest "point of emphasis" has had a severely negative impact, in my opinion.

Ask yourself what you do when you're watching a game and your team comes up with a big 3rd down stop on an incomplete pass. You wait, right? Hold your breath for a sec, making sure you don't start celebrating before you see a flag come flying in, right? That, quite frankly, sucks.

PI and defensive holding calls are subjective, so there will never be consistency from crew to crew, or even from play to play. I've seen ridiculous calls all season long, both in the Patriots' favor and against it.

It's nearly impossible to cover today's NFL receivers without contact. I'm not sure what was so "broken" that the NFL felt they needed to fix it. Personally I think this is all about feeding the multi-billion-dollar fantasy football world.

The 5% conspiracy theorist in me believes it's a way for the league to have more control over games too.

You can call offensive holding and kill a drive, and you can also call defensive holding/pi to sustain a drive.

[CR91]

It was the correct call and name me a receiver that doesn't look to the refs most of the time.

 

correct call? how is running into a defender draw a flag? 

[JerodMayo51]

The only non call that bothered me was on the Packers final drive, it was a third and 6 or something and the receiver literally put 2 hands on the DB and shoved him 4 yards into the ground

The force of the pushoff was enough to send Dennard flying 4 yards through the air into the ground and the receiver makes the easy, uncontested catch to keep the chains moving.

I was appalled

[dgambill]

All fair points; I wouldn't want to see things get out of hand either. I just don't think it's good for the future of the game. (And I don't want to watch an NFL where guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick toss 6 TDs in a single game, lol...)

Well you won't have too....nobody WATCHED that game anyways....well maybe a couple people that come on here did. I agree though hopefully that won't become the norm....and I don't think it will. Like I said the real difference is now teams have 3 and 4 good receivers to cover and defenses don't often have more than 1 really good corner and thus these lesser guys get burnt trying to cover people without the holding/bumping/grabbing...where as years gone by teams maybe had one great receiver...an Irving or Rice and if you had a shut down corner like a Bailey or Sanders or Woodson or Darrell Green or Ty Law etc then you could shut a teams passing game down. Now with so many skilled receivers coming out there just isn't enough cover guys to stop them all...at least without the breaking the rules etc. I suppose its just a preference in how you want your game to be played. Bogged down and a physical slug fest or let those superior atheletes let their skills shine (defense and offense) by opening up the game. I definately respect your opinion. I think this all started in the preseason with the worry the league was going to be a flag fest but people forget the preseason is mostly played by guys that won't even make a roster and thus were playing terrible defense and getting called all over the place. Once you saw the starters play during the season we haven't seen nearly the same issues with the calls as what people were upset about. Sure every game has a call here or there including one or two by the offense (see Steve Smith/Jimmy Graham) that people would question but overall it hasn't been across the board problem in my mind.

[Danfish98]

There's been little consistency at times with defensive holding and PI calls, but how anyone could watch that play in the Chargers/Ravens game and not see an obvious defensive PI call is beyond me.  I'm confident that would have been called last year.

[BOTT]

I don't like the new emphasis, but the PI call in the chargers game looked correct. Floyd is pushing back with arm but that's because the defender has him wrapped up with both arms till just before the ball gets there.

[BrentMc11]

It was the correct call and name me a receiver that doesn't look to the refs most of the time.

Then throw the flag on time.          There...I took care of the old man back judge

[Girlzarefanstoo]

To be fair to the officials - there is nothing consistent about each play, players, routes etc. and they are calling it at game speed not with replay.

 

I haven't been happy with the ticky-tack PI calls on both D and O this year, it stops the flow of the game.  Yet I haven't been happy with teams that maul players and get away with it (and get lauded for being aaaaaaamazing defenses).  

 

Do any of us think it is possible that we'll ever really be satisfied with officiating?!  Didn't think so

[JerodMayo51]

Yet I haven't been happy with teams that maul players and get away with it (and get lauded for being aaaaaaamazing defenses).

Part of the game though is finding that fine line and learning how the Refs are calling the game, and then playing within those parameters.

Any good defense is going to test the officials to see what they can and can't get away with

[Thewholefnshow28]

The latest "point of emphasis" has had a severely negative impact, in my opinion. 

 

Ask yourself what you do when you're watching a game and your team comes up with a big 3rd down stop on an incomplete pass. You wait, right? Hold your breath for a sec, making sure you don't start celebrating before you see a flag come flying in, right? That, quite frankly, sucks. 

 

PI and defensive holding calls are subjective, so there will never be consistency from crew to crew, or even from play to play. I've seen ridiculous calls all season long, both in the Patriots' favor and against it. 

 

It's nearly impossible to cover today's NFL receivers without contact. I'm not sure what was so "broken" that the NFL felt they needed to fix it. Personally I think this is all about feeding the multi-billion-dollar fantasy football world. 

 

There was nothing that needed to be fixed.  The NFL just wants to encourage more offense and more scoring because fans eat up offense.  Fans do not like defense and sadly the Seahawks winning with great defense and a physical defense probably did more harm than good to the defense in the NFL.

 

I hate the rule because it is exactly what you said.  Every time the Colts make a stop I hold my breath waiting for some ticky tack call to come in.  I understand calling it if they are being mugged out there because we do not want to go back to the 70's, but let them play out there. 

 

Sadly, we are never going back so I just have to get use to seeing all that yellow.

[Superman]

It's absolutely not destroying the game. It's very simple. You can't grab and hold receivers because you can't cover them. That's not defense, it's not coverage, and it's always been against the rules. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be called when it happens.

 

There are some ticky-tack calls in every game, on both sides of the ball. That doesn't mean the rules should be disregarded.

[GoPats]

It's absolutely not destroying the game. It's very simple. You can't grab and hold receivers because you can't cover them. That's not defense, it's not coverage, and it's always been against the rules. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be called when it happens.

 

There are some ticky-tack calls in every game, on both sides of the ball. That doesn't mean the rules should be disregarded.

 

Do you find yourself doing the same thing I do and mentioned earlier? (Holding your breath after, say, a nice Vontae Davis pass break-up on 3rd down?) 

 

Have you always done that or is this the first year it's happened?

 

Honest questions, I know we have different feelings on this one and you're a smart dude. So I want an alternate perspective. 

[Superman]

Do you find yourself doing the same thing I do and mentioned earlier? (Holding your breath after, say, a nice Vontae Davis pass break-up on 3rd down?) 

 

Have you always done that or is this the first year it's happened?

 

Honest questions, I know we have different feelings on this one and you're a smart dude. So I want an alternate perspective. 

 

I hope that there are no penalties after big plays, but that's not exclusive to defensive stops. I do it when we have a big pass play, when we pin a punt inside the 5, etc. And I do it more this year because the Colts have been penalized more heavily this year, and that's not just because of coverage penalties. It's overall sloppy play.

 

I just don't think defenders should be able to grab and hold receivers. It's against the rules, and always has been. I feel the same about offensive linemen grabbing and holding pass rushers, and so on. It's not football.

[Synthetic]

Not a new problem. This has been going on for years if you've paid attention to recent rule changes. It did not just happen over night.

 

Offense sells tickets. People want to see a man dropping back and launching a stupid ball in the air and then someone down the field catching it. It's what people like, it sells. So it would make perfect sense to try and increase that to increase that profit. Defensive play might be considered "cool" to some, but obviously not the larger crowd.

 

Look at the most popular players in the NFL today and it is all quarterbacks. Most people outside of hardcore fans cannot even name many players besides the quarterback who gets all the praise and worship when he wins, and gets all the blame when they lose. Normally the only few QB's they know of are the ones everyone give undying praise to (Brady, Manning, Brees, and Rodgers). With the situation in SF, we are almost at the point where quarterbacks can play general manager and practically run the team...that day is coming soon.

[DougDew]

The players and, to a certain extent, the media, are trying to turn the game into something like the NBA. There is no such thing as fighting for position when the ball is in the air. That's what happened in the Chargers Ravens game.

The refs should have called PI on BOTH the offense and defensive players with the result being a do-over.

I think there is a certain thinking that would like to see "physical" WRs battling "physical" DBs throughout the route, with the result being the winner of the battle catches the ball. That's where the game was heading and I think the NFL is trying to take back control of their rules and dictate to the players how the game is supposed to be played.

[Superman]

Part of the game though is finding that fine line and learning how the Refs are calling the game, and then playing within those parameters.

Any good defense is going to test the officials to see what they can and can't get away with

 

I play a lot of pickup basketball, always have. I usually play with good players, guys who are pretty athletic and know how to play the game, know the rules, etc. Everyone doesn't always know each other, but generally, everyone can get on the same page, calls are mostly respected, etc., and the games go fine. People get a little nitpicky when the game is on the line, but that's not surprising.

 

Every once in a while, someone shows up and decides that they don't want to play the game the way everyone else does. They complain every time someone calls a foul, for instance. Sometimes guys say "I don't see any refs, stop whining." That's when the games are less fun, when play slows down, etc. Those guys are usually less athletic, guys who fancy themselves as "physical" defenders, who think it's okay to hack and push and grab rather than play real defense and try to stay in front of their man. Then they complain about ticky-tack foul calls.

 

To me, it's the same in the NFL. The problem isn't playing by the rules, playing coverage rather than grabbing and holding. The problem is when guys stop playing sound coverage, in favor of grabbing and holding. Yeah, sometimes the calls are little overboard, but that's just bad officiating (which always has and always will be a factor, in every sport). The emphasis on defensive holding and illegal contact isn't the issue. Nor is it ruining the game.

[MJD42]

I play a lot of pickup basketball, always have. I usually play with good players, guys who are pretty athletic and know how to play the game, know the rules, etc. Everyone doesn't always know each other, but generally, everyone can get on the same page, calls are mostly respected, etc., and the games go fine. People get a little nitpicky when the game is on the line, but that's not surprising.

 

Every once in a while, someone shows up and decides that they don't want to play the game the way everyone else does. They complain every time someone calls a foul, for instance. Sometimes guys say "I don't see any refs, stop whining." That's when the games are less fun, when play slows down, etc. Those guys are usually less athletic, guys who fancy themselves as "physical" defenders, who think it's okay to hack and push and grab rather than play real defense and try to stay in front of their man. Then they complain about ticky-tack foul calls.

 

To me, it's the same in the NFL. The problem isn't playing by the rules, playing coverage rather than grabbing and holding. The problem is when guys stop playing sound coverage, in favor of grabbing and holding. Yeah, sometimes the calls are little overboard, but that's just bad officiating (which always has and always will be a factor, in every sport). The emphasis on defensive holding and illegal contact isn't the issue. Nor is it ruining the game.

Football isn't basketball though. There has always been some grabbing and holding throughout its history. The fact that they want guys to cover with no contact has never been part of the sport.

[Superman]

Football isn't basketball though. There has always been some grabbing and holding throughout its history. The fact that they want guys to cover with no contact has never been part of the sport.

 

They don't want guys to cover with no contact. Nice strawman.

 

Also, congratulations on missing the point.

[dw49]

They don't want guys to cover with no contact. Nice strawman.

 

 

It's really the same as it's always been , only a little more defined now. If anything probably better now. The thing is when they let all that grabbing a bumping down field happen , how could you possibly quantify what is legally allowed and what should be flagged. At least now they have a rule that they are trying to enforce with out letting a certain amount go. It's never going to be perfect but this is probably a bit better ?

[Superman]

It's really the same as it's always been , only a little more defined now. If anything probably better now. The thing is when they let all that grabbing a bumping down field happen , how could you possibly quantify what is legally allowed and what should be flagged. At least now they have a rule that they are trying to enforce with out letting a certain amount go. It's never going to be perfect but this is probably a bit better ?

 

Yeah, I think it's pretty simple. You can't grab, hold, or redirect a receiver once he's beyond 5 yards past the line of scrimmage. They still let a lot of contact go down the field, especially bumping and incidental contact. Both players have an equal right to pursue the ball. 

[CR91]

I hope that there are no penalties after big plays, but that's not exclusive to defensive stops. I do it when we have a big pass play, when we pin a punt inside the 5, etc. And I do it more this year because the Colts have been penalized more heavily this year, and that's not just because of coverage penalties. It's overall sloppy play.

 

I just don't think defenders should be able to grab and hold receivers. It's against the rules, and always has been. I feel the same about offensive linemen grabbing and holding pass rushers, and so on. It's not football.

 

grabbing and holding? you look at the wr wrong and you get a flag. I guess youre ok with wrs crying for a flag 

[Superman]

grabbing and holding? you look at the wr wrong and you get a flag. I guess youre ok with wrs crying for a flag 

 

None of that is true.