A statistical comparison of some of the league's notable cornerbacks.

[Superman]

based on the fact that he's an average CB.

So, he's an average corner because he's an average corner?

Again, your troll game is weak.

[thedude]

.......    before this spins wildly out of control (likely too late)  I must say this.......

 

 

Really?

[thedude]

So, he's an average corner because he's an average corner?

Again, your troll game is weak.

Average CB's usually are "average" aren't they?  Are they usually something other than average?

[Derakynn]

Look at this guy, he has literally spent the better part of 3 weeks, if not a more accurate measure of at least 10 hours, of his life making useless, uninformed drivel and showing his intentness on everyone being aware of his overbearing ignorance. I don't know why you people try to argue with him. It's like hitting a punching bag. Does nothing to it, and the bag is still an immobile sack and blissfully unaware.

[thedude]

Look at this guy, he has literally spent the better part of 3 weeks, if not a more accurate measure of at least 10 hours, of his life making useless, uninformed drivel.

And you're hanging on every word. Every time I comment, the pack here goes absolutely berserk.

[SteelCityColt]

And you're hanging on every word. Every time I comment, the pack here goes absolutely berserk.

I think you flatter yourself and I think people have been stoic in trying to meet you in reasoned debate on the topic which you've dismissed pretty obnoxiously. Stats don't matter because they don't suit your argument. I figure we could show you a play by play breakdown of his season and you'd dismiss it because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Direct question, if Davis maintains his current production for a season are you going to still say he's average? You're point of view thus far basically suggests you don't think players can improve. Or am I misrepresenting your stance do he's been average earlier in his career ergo he must be average now?

[Danfish98]

Toler at #8 in the league this year is shocking to me.  Knew he was playing well but I had no idea he was playing that well.  Davis has started living up to the potential he showed last year against Denver.  Only thing his game was missing was consistency and so far this year he's been consistent.  Quarterback rating of 12 when they throw on him speaks for itself no matter what blind Seattle trolls want to think.

[NewColtsFan]

And you're hanging on every word. Every time I comment, the pack here goes absolutely berserk.

 

We're at 5 pages now and you've got no one on you side.

 

You've been exposed as someone who knows little about football.

 

One would think if you saw this many people opposing you that you might want to consider that they might be a little bit right, and you might be a little bit wrong.

 

But no.     You don't move an inch.    Remember when you were confused over digging that deep hole?   

 

This is the hole.     And it's only getting deeper.    And no amount of snappy comebacks is going to help you out. 

 

It's only getting worse for you.

 

You and 1 Dusty Yard may want to set-up your own website.    I'm sure all your admirers will flood the site.

 

And you can live happily in your own parallel universe where Davis is an average corner (your view)  and most everything the Colts do is wrong (1 Yards view)....    I think you'll live happily ever after.....

 

One last thought.....   you either care about what the rest of think, or you don't.

 

If you do,  then why don't you consider that some of what we say has some merit and you might be wrong?

 

And if you don't,  then why are you here trying to change hearts and minds?   Cuz it's not working for you.

[thedude]

We're at 5 pages now and you've got no one on you side.

 

why don't you consider that some of what we say has some merit and you might be wrong?

Why would anyone here take " my side"? That comment has zero impact. I don't give any merit to the argument which puts Vontae Davis as one of the very best CB's in the NFL because he isn't. No one other than a Colts fan agrees that he is either.

There are several teams where he'd be either a back up, or a nickel back. If he was a top CB, he'd be a shoe-in as a starter anywhere.

[thedude]

I think you flatter yourself and I think

....

I could comment that this just proves that you aren't thinking clearly, but I'll refrain from doing so.

[SteelCityColt]

I could comment that this just proves that you aren't thinking clearly, but I'll refrain from doing so.

 

Except you just have in a back handed way. 

 

I notice you ignored the vast majority of my post, how very like a politician, avoid the direct question, just spout out the same rhetoric again and again. 

 

Again a direct question, on the 5 game sample of this season so far do you honestly rate Davis' play as "average"?

[thedude]

 

And you can live happily in your own parallel universe where Davis is an average corner (your view)  and most everything the Colts do is wrong (1 Yards view)....   

Where did I ever say most everything the Colts do is wrong? I'll wait.......

[thedude]

Direct question, if Davis maintains his current production for a season are you going to still say he's average?

If that should happe, I would say he's vastly improved and is a quality CB, but the chances of him being something other than what he's been are the proverbial two.......... slim and none.

[NewColtsFan]

Where did I ever say most everything the Colts do is wrong? I'll wait.......

 

I didn't say it was your view.    I said it was the view of 1 Yards and a cloud of dust.

 

There's that reading comprehension thing again.

[NewColtsFan]

Why would anyone here take " my side"? That comment has zero impact. I don't give any merit to the argument which puts Vontae Davis as one of the very best CB's in the NFL because he isn't. No one other than a Colts fan agrees that he is either.

There are several teams where he'd be either a back up, or a nickel back. If he was a top CB, he'd be a shoe-in as a starter anywhere.

 

What I've put into bold are your opinions.   They are not facts, despite the fact that you insist they are.

 

Do you have anything resembling facts to back you up?    Is there a link that supports you?

 

And, by the way,  I've taken lots of unpopular opinions around here.   And yet I get Colts fans supporting me all the time.

 

So, your view that no one here will support you because your opinion isn't popular with Colts fans holds zero water.

[amfootball]

I think you just don't understand what it takes to make it to the NFL and then progress to the upper echelons of the league.  So, your lack of understanding is not my problem.

 

The average NFL football player is a very talented athlete, whether he's on a practice squad or a starter.  So, the average player is quite good.  BUT, to be considered the best of the best, one must be spectacular.  Davis is not anywhere approaching spectacular.  He's the average NFL CB. 

So in your mind Ryan Leaf was very talented and quite good?

[SteelCityColt]

So in your mind Ryan Leaf was very talented and quite good?

 

Well yeah he was.. just also rather foolish and didn't apply himself. 

 

Sports history is littered with tons of "busts" who had all the physical ability, all the talent, all the skill to be a great but had cheese between their ears when it came to mental fortitude and application. 

[amfootball]

Well yeah he was.. just also rather foolish and didn't apply himself. 

 

Sports history is littered with tons of "busts" who had all the physical ability, all the talent, all the skill to be a great but had cheese between their ears when it came to mental fortitude and application. 

The average NFL career is 3 years and while some of that is due to injury, much is due to guys who can't play. Not every player that comes into the league is the same and many are not close to "quite good."

[SteelCityColt]

The average NFL career is 3 years and while some of that is due to injury, much is due to guys who can't play. Not every player that comes into the league is the same and many are not close to "quite good."

 

It all depends on you definition of "quite good", to argue semantics if you've made from HS to College to the NFL you're pretty much up their percentile wise as a football player. 

 

However my point was about Ryan Leaf, and I disagree he wasn't very good. I just don't think he was very clever or mature. 

[sweetsurrender]

You guys have an unbelievable level of patience to keep arguing with this troll. Football has about a zillion metrics to determine level of play and yet none of that matters here because Sherman does not not rank out as the best or even second best anymore. Rest assured though, if he did, this troll would be quoting his stats. Then again, maybe not, as football acumen is not his area of strength. 

[amfootball]

It all depends on you definition of "quite good", to argue semantics if you've made from HS to College to the NFL you're pretty much up their percentile wise as a football player. 

 

However my point was about Ryan Leaf, and I disagree he wasn't very good. I just don't think he was very clever or mature. 

There are plenty of immature players who are stars in the NFL - Josh Gordon as prime example number one. Moss was pretty immature too.

[SteelCityColt]

There are plenty of immature players who are stars in the NFL - Josh Gordon as prime example number one. Moss was pretty immature too.

 

Right... what's that got to do with Ryan Leaf? Ad Hominems, Ad Hominems, Ad Hominems, my kingdom for an interaction with you without Ad Hominems! 

 

[amfootball]

Right... what's that got to do with Ryan Leaf? Ad Hominems, Ad Hominems, Ad Hominems, my kingdom for an interaction with you without Ad Hominems! 

I don't believe Leaf ever had the talent.

[SteelCityColt]

I don't believe Leaf ever had the talent.

 

Then that is all good, I just don't agree with you 

[Danfish98]

There are plenty of immature players who are stars in the NFL - Josh Gordon as prime example number one. Moss was pretty immature too.

They aren't quarterbacks though. A quarterback requires much more maturity than other positions. Leaf had all the physical tools to be one of the best connected to a 10 cent brain. An exceptional wr can make that combo work, a qb can't.

[OffensivelyPC]

Why would anyone here take " my side"? That comment has zero impact. I don't give any merit to the argument which puts Vontae Davis as one of the very best CB's in the NFL because he isn't. No one other than a Colts fan agrees that he is either.

There are several teams where he'd be either a back up, or a nickel back. If he was a top CB, he'd be a shoe-in as a starter anywhere.

You couldn't prove that anymore than you could prove Richard Sherman could start anywhere.  But nice fake argument. 

[ColtStronger]

Torry Smith has about 3 good games per season

He isn't a #1 WR but has that big play ability.  Good hands, so he is a threat. 

[thedude]

You couldn't prove that anymore than you could prove Richard Sherman could start anywhere.  But nice fake argument.

You don't think Sherman would be a starter on any team? Perhaps you have a bias tainting your view?

[ColtStronger]

Brock, Verner, Sherman, Peterson, Revis, Talib.

 

Oh, you said only five.  Scratch Talib from that list

Please refer to the stat chart!  How is Vontae not in the top 5?  You are merely arguing your opinion because you refuse to give in.  Other Colt's fans are arguing their opinion and refuse to give up (because we have stats to back it up).  Vontae was pretty darn good last year as well, so you cant argue that it's only this season...  What does he need to do for you to say he is up there?  Don't just say that because you don't like him or the Colts.  I hate the Patriots and Tom Brady but I cant say he isn't a top 3 QB from this era, even though he hasn't had a ton of success this year and certain games in the past.  My point is your opinion is logically flawed because you are biased!!  If you like starting meaningless debates go to another teams forums because you haven't had success in proving your point here.

[thedude]

So in your mind Ryan Leaf was very talented and quite good?

Ryan Leaf had million dollar talent, but a ten cent brain. I suspect you actually understand that.

[thedude]

Please refer to the stat chart!  How is Vontae not in the top 5? 

Because he's not in the same class as the CB's I listed. That's how. I think you actually know that too.

[OffensivelyPC]

You don't think Sherman would be a starter on any team? Perhaps you have a bias tainting your view?

I am bias against a corner from another team?  Pot meet kettel?

[thedude]

Well yeah he was.. just also rather foolish and didn't apply himself. 

 

Sports history is littered with tons of "busts" who had all the physical ability, all the talent, all the skill to be a great but had cheese between their ears when it came to mental fortitude and application.

You're right. Ryan Leaf was a kid with phenomenal physical talent. He's a perfect example of how defective character can negate physical talent.

[thedude]

I am bias against a corner from another team?  Pot meet kettel?

But I can see where the talent is, you can't seem to come to terms with that. I have no problem identifying the weaknesses of my favorite team. I'm not a homer who puts on the colored glasses and makes things up to fit the tainted view. I see it as it is.

[ColtStronger]

If that should happe, I would say he's vastly improved and is a quality CB, but the chances of him being something other than what he's been are the proverbial two.......... slim and none.

Vastly improved?  If you project his stats x4 until the end of the season he probably would have the best season in NFL history as a CB.  Not that I'm saying it would happen or even be close, but at that point you would say it was only 1 season.  Let's see it happen next year before I say he is the best corner in the league.  You think Richard Sherman is so good then why wasn't he able to shutdown TY last year.  Sherman is one to blame for the loss for getting beat deep during a point of the game where momentum was changing.  Not just getting burned deep for a TD, TY manhandled him the rest of the afternoon!!  TY isn't even our #1 WR this year, and could be considered #3 at times, behind Nicks.  Just because Richard Shermans big mouth says "Im the best corner in the game", doesn't mean he is.  Don't believe everything you hear.  Go off what people do, just like Vontae putting up the best stats in the league thus far

[ColtStronger]

Because he's not in the same class as the CB's I listed. That's how. I think you actually know that too.

Youre right he's not in the same class!  Keep scrolling up, you can find him at the top lol

[OffensivelyPC]

But I can see where the talent is, you can't seem to come to terms with that. I have no problem identifying the weaknesses of my favorite team. I'm not a homer who puts on the colored glasses and makes things up to fit the tainted view. I see it as it is.

No you can't.  If you've proven anything at all, it's that you have no clue how to evaluate talent.  So if I can't come to terms with it, it's because you've inflated your idea of what good football is to the point that you think you're the final authority on all things football, or at least with respect to cornerbacks. 

 

To the rest of your comment, if you think I have my homer glasses on every time I talk about the Colts, then you clearly read my comments about the same way you evaluate football games - cherry pick the part that makes your argument and dismiss the rest as irrelevant so you can reach a conclusion and put your empty stamp of objectivity on it.  You try to impeach people's comments without addressing the subject matter and it's juvenile.  The fact of the matter is, I'm know full well about vontae's inconsistency and his criticism.  I criticize certain aspects of my own team.  But you don't have a clue if you think I'm always puffing my chest about the Colts and all their players, coaches, etc.  But the irony in your criticism is you do the exact same damn thing.  Remember all the crap you said leading into the Chargers game?  Yeah, you're guilty too, so don't actl ike you aren't a homer. 

 

The sad thing is, your trolling makes your fanbase look awful in doing so.  Simply put, you are a horrid representation of your fanbase and if I'm disappointed in Colts fans for acting in a similar way that way you do, I too would expect Seahawks fans to be disappointed in you.  Not that you care about anything like that, I wouldn't expect you to.  But when someone says "Every team has their knuckleheads and not all of them are like that," they refer to people like you.

[thedude]

No you can't. 

.

That's convincing.

[thedude]

The sad thing is, your trolling makes your fanbase look awful in doing so. 

You're trolling with your response. In fact, you people have been just as guilty of that as you claim I am.

[GoPats]

The results of this aren't too surprising. A lot of you guys have been telling the rest of us that Davis has been much better than he's gotten credit for, and I can say - at least for myself - that I've listened. I wasn't that impressed with him in Miami but obviously he's been very productive and effective for Indy. 

 

The only problem I have with data from PFF is how people take it as gospel. Try to keep in mind there are still subjective factors at play with their stats. The main weakness is that they are judging each play for each player based on an assumed job or assignment, and how well they did that job. Sometimes that's obvious but other times it's not. There are still judgment calls and of course  the PFF guys watching game film over in the UK (where they're based) don't know what "Player A" was actually supposed to do on any given play. 

 

One thing that also confuses me a bit with PFF is that they release their weekly info prior to when the all-22 film is normally available for each game. I know they used to use Game Rewind (saw an interview with the founder a couple of years back) and am not sure how they did their job with just that. Does anyone know if they get the all-22 earlier in the week or something? 

 

Overall their info is good, don't get me wrong. It's useful and interesting stuff. But it's not infallible and is subject to possible errors, as well as slanted judgment calls by the (probably cricket and soccer fan) guys that work for them reviewing games and gathering stats.