All-time TD pass king: Peyton or Brees?

[amfootball]

How did you feel when Bledsoe was replaced for good that season? Were Pats fans on board with the Brady decision?

When Brady first came off the bench, I was like "Where's Huard?" The Pats had paid Huard a million dollars to be Bledsoe's back up and I was pretty stoked about the signing because he looked good backing up Marino in Miami when Dan got injured. It didn't take long for me to like Brady honestly. The offense seemed to hum under him. He did not have Bledsoe's big arm but he was methodical and took what the defense gave him. He rarely took sacks which I remember being the biggest difference. Bledsoe was getting sacked a lot and there was talk about how bad the Oline was and then Brady steps in and the sacks stop and the picks. That was the biggest reason why I liked Brady. He moved the offense and had few negative plays.

 

All that being said, I loved Bledsoe. He and Parcells revived football in NE as the Pats had been pretty horrible for years prior to Kraft buying the team and hiring Parcells who then subsequently drafted Bledsoe. No one in NE disliked Bledsoe. But I think we all knew fairly early in where Brady could take us. Of course no one expected 3 Sbs in 4 years. I would have been elated with just the first one. That one is my favorite anyways just because it was so unexpected and the Pats were big underdogs in the SB.

[JerodMayo51]

That's why i said it's speculation.

 

Its not speculation, the Head Coach/GM publicly said in an interview that he liked Brady over Bledsoe..  He would have started, sooner or later he would have started and that is right from the Head Coach's mouth, so its not speculation, it is right from the horse's mouth.

[jvan1973]

Its not speculation, the Head Coach/GM publicly said in an interview that he liked Brady over Bledsoe.. He would have started, sooner or later he would have started and that is right from the Head Coach's mouth, so its not speculation, it is right from the horse's mouth.

Yes, several years and three superbowls later.

[JerodMayo51]

How did you feel when Bledsoe was replaced for good that season? Were Pats fans on board with the Brady decision?

 

Completely on board, the team was exciting to watch and Brady just always seemed to get them into good situations with the offense and the defense was playing lights out..  It was an amazing season to watch and everyone in my circles wanted to keep riding that train into the Super Bowl with Brady... even after Bledsoe played well in the AFCCG when Brady was knocked out with a knee injury.

[amfootball]

Yes, several years and three superbowls later.

Considering Brady flew up the depth chart from 4 to 2 in one season, it is not hard to imagine that Bill had those feelings back then even if he is articulating them years later. And again, once Bledsoe was healthy, he still chose to start Brady and the team was at .500 at the time with a 5-5 record.

[Jules]

Unfortunately for you, his stats are what they are and facts are facts.

He went outside Dome and I am sure a lot of people like you thought he would fail. Now only thing you can hold on to is wind. Wind affects any player not just him.

Keep going with your ifs and buts.

 

 

And the ifs and buts continues.

Learn to talk facts first. Keep the fiction to yourself.

 

 

Mine isn't hypothetical.

I talk only facts. You are the one who started saying if Manning played in cold weather his stats would not be good.

Read your posts and remember what you wrote.

 

 

Bill O'Reilly posts here?

[BloodyChamp]

Yeah cheating defense, like non one else before the Saints was ever doing bounties. Riiiiiiiight.

Better go grab your tin foil hat and check up on Info Wars, sounds like a conspiracy job to me!

Oh I forgot, we didn't beat the Colts and make Manning look bad in the Super Bowl it was our "cheating defense" and they also made Brees look great the entire year. I have to admit, I love reading about how bad the 2009 Saints were coming from people that only watched them in the playoffs.

Cool story bro!

O...this argument...

The most famous Bounty before the 2009 NFCCG was the 1989 Bounty Bowl when Buddy Ryan put up a whopping $200 to smack around a kicker. Bountygate was a huge scheme that involved a pile of money setup by alot of people to screw alot of other people over and, ultimately, cheat.

[crazycolt1]

One thing is no one mentioned that Brady and Manning have been QBing against some of the worst defensive teams in NFL history. Both have benefited from divisions who lacked high rated defenses. Both also have benefited from rule changes that have opened up the passing game. If Marino played in today's NFL he more than likely would hold a lot more records. Both Marino and Manning played on teams that lacked even average defense's. Brady has had some pretty poor defense's around him here in the last few seasons. We all love to put all the glory on the quarterback but those numbers really mean less when it is overlooked that the NFL is a team sport.

[Shane Bond]

lol. What facts? He did not play in a cold weather city for his whole career so both opinions are hypothetical. Again, why do you care so much? I am fine that you believe his stats may be the same. I disagree. You can move on from this and live your day at peace.

If you don't care that much, you can not reply, admit you are making hypotheticals and go on.

[Shane Bond]

Bill O'Reilly posts here?

Nit picking my posts, name calling, making a comment totally irrelevant to the topic

Boy i must have hit some nerves deep, tell you what keep going, it's hilarious.

[BloodyChamp]

If Marino played in today's NFL he more than likely would hold a lot more records.

People forget that be DID hold the records until Brett Favre. If Marino played in today's NFL, he would have the records AND the rings because Brett Favre would have been banned for helmet to helmet hits.

[amfootball]

One thing is no one mentioned that Brady and Manning have been QBing against some of the worst defensive teams in NFL history. Both have benefited from divisions who lacked high rated defenses. Both also have benefited from rule changes that have opened up the passing game. If Marino played in today's NFL he more than likely would hold a lot more records. Both Marino and Manning played on teams that lacked even average defense's. Brady has had some pretty poor defense's around him here in the last few seasons. We all love to put all the glory on the quarterback but those numbers really mean less when it is overlooked that the NFL is a team sport.

Marino played in the same division as Brady and back then the Bills, Pats and Jets were even worse given there was no cap. My point being that Marino also benefited from playing some weak competition and in his hay day the toughest teams were in the NFC with the niners, giants, bears and redskins. The NFC dominated the SB for almost a decade. That is how much better that conference was so I would actually argue that Brady and Manning have played tougher competition because they have had to face each other so many times and also because the AFC was the more dominant conference during their prime. Now of course I would give the edge to the NFC.

 

In terms of the records, I do think Marino would have amazing numbers if he played with the new rules but not sure if he would have won more as in the cap/FA era it is hard to build a solid team around as there just isn't enough money to have great players on both sides of the ball. That is why both Brady and Manning have had to either carry their defenses or offenses some years. Such is the beast of playing in this era which is the toughest era IMO.

[GoPats]

IMO you can't just look at the TD numbers, its the entire package.  Favre leads the league in TDs, but he also leads the league in interceptions...

 

And in retirements! 

[ViriLudant]

Speculation

Irony.

[GoPats]

Yes, several years and three superbowls later.

 

Don't forget, Belichick was nearly tarred and feathered by the fans and media in Cleveland because he told Bernie Kosar to get lost. I don't personally know what the coach was thinking in early September 2001, but by that point he already had a track record of benching and/or releasing high-profile veteran players. 

[oldunclemark]

One thing is no one mentioned that Brady and Manning have been QBing against some of the worst defensive teams in NFL history. Both have benefited from divisions who lacked high rated defenses. Both also have benefited from rule changes that have opened up the passing game. If Marino played in today's NFL he more than likely would hold a lot more records. Both Marino and Manning played on teams that lacked even average defense's. Brady has had some pretty poor defense's around him here in the last few seasons. We all love to put all the glory on the quarterback but those numbers really mean less when it is overlooked that the NFL is a team sport.

All QBs play against good and bade defenses...KC had the top-ranked Defense in the NFL until peyton faced them...

Brady faced some good Jets defenses...

....No one mentions the defenses because it doesnt lean towards any of the top QBs...

...we put all the glory AND al the blame on QBs..and you're right....its too much.

But when you talk about individual numbers...the defenses really don't factor in..because they tend to balance out

[HtownColt]

Brett Favre

[jvan1973]

Brett Favre

I don't think you understood the question

[HtownColt]

I don't think you understood the question

I read the thread title not what he wrote....It won't be Peyton after he retires after this season

[Dustin]

I read the thread title not what he wrote....It won't be Peyton after he retires after this season

Are you saying Peyton won't break the TD record?

[Superman]

Are you saying Peyton won't break the TD record?

 

He needs 18 TD passes this season. There's no way he can throw that many TD passes in 2014. He's 38, he's coming off of a bunch of neck surgeries, he has serious nerve damage in his throwing arm, he can hardly grip the football, he's not getting any younger, he lost his second best receiver from last season... Did you even see the Super Bowl? The guy is done, stick a fork in him.

 

[Disclaimer: Not serious.]

[HtownColt]

Are you saying Peyton won't break the TD record?

He will, Brees will overtake him couple years later leaving it an afterthought than Manning passed Favre first

[BloodyChamp]

I'd love to see The Old Gunslinger hang on to his record but Manning could break it without his neck in today's game. Atleast he deserves it. He played before it became easy to throw touchdowns.

I'm already in favor of just burning the record books in a world where Nick Foles throws 7 touchdowns in a game. Manning's 7 touchdown game makes 2/5 of the amount of people who'd thrown 7 touchdowns in a game since the beginning of time! If Brees breaks the record the just...ugh.

[jvan1973]

I read the thread title not what he wrote....It won't be Peyton after he retires after this season

he needs 18, pretty sure he will break it. Plus he will play out his contract unless he gets hurt

[HtownColt]

he needs 18, pretty sure he will break it. Plus he will play out his contract unless he gets hurt

Season long Farewell parade begins Sept. 7th

[jvan1973]

Season long Farewell parade begins Sept. 7th

Highly doubtful. Nice try though

[oldunclemark]

Season long Farewell parade begins Sept. 7th

Isnt that what was aid last year...and the year before?

If you predict someone's decline and retirement every single year, eventually you are correct

[HtownColt]

Isnt that what was aid last year...and the year before?

If you predict someone's decline and retirement every single year, eventually you are correct

I've never said that in years past, so that doesn't apply to my guess for this season

[Qwiz]

Isnt that what was aid last year...and the year before?

If you predict someone's decline and retirement every single year, eventually you are correct

Manning is 38. It wouldn't be surprising if he actually retired after this season. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who will drag his career along even when he knows his physical tools are declining. He has the benefit of the doubt right now because of this past season but I don't think it is realistic to expect him to post video game numbers for the next 3 years.

[Gavin]

1.Peyton Manning

2.Brett Favre

 

2 best QB's I ever saw

[Superman]

Manning is 38. It wouldn't be surprising if he actually retired after this season. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who will drag his career along even when he knows his physical tools are declining. He has the benefit of the doubt right now because of this past season but I don't think it is realistic to expect him to post video game numbers for the next 3 years.

 

A 40% reduction in Manning's production from 2013 would be 33 TDs, 3,300 yards. He doesn't need video game numbers; it would actually be better for the Broncos if they can win 12 games a year without him going crazy like that. The last time Manning had fewer than 4,000 yards in a season was 2005, the year after he broke the TD record, and that was probably the best overall Colts team he played on. If his physical tools decline, and his production decreases, he should still be able to make enough plays to help his team win.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he retires at any point (although he seems pretty intent on finishing his contract, based on what he's said). But physically, he'd have to erode overnight to feel like he can't perform. Or get hurt again. His age isn't really the major consideration; he just crushed the records at 37, two years off of a series of major neck operations.

[Qwiz]

A 40% reduction in Manning's production from 2013 would be 33 TDs, 3,300 yards. He doesn't need video game numbers; it would actually be better for the Broncos if they can win 12 games a year without him going crazy like that. The last time Manning had fewer than 4,000 yards in a season was 2005, the year after he broke the TD record, and that was probably the best overall Colts team he played on. If his physical tools decline, and his production decreases, he should still be able to make enough plays to help his team win.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he retires at any point (although he seems pretty intent on finishing his contract, based on what he's said). But physically, he'd have to erode overnight to feel like he can't perform. Or get hurt again. His age isn't really the major consideration; he just crushed the records at 37, two years off of a series of major neck operations.

Agreed. Him not being the sole person to be relied on in that offense would be weaning them for when it is time for Osweiler or whoever to step in, and it is best to have a balanced attack and a good defense anyway. Also agreed that it would take some serious wear and tear for his body to just all of a sudden go down, all I'm saying is that of course it will eventually decline, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him continue to produce even when he isn't the Manning that we've all come to know. Should be interesting to see.

[oldunclemark]

Supe..Q..

..why is it better to have a good balanced offense than to have a record breaking, one dimensional offense..

Isnt more better. Isnt great better than good?

Denver's short passé were glorified runs

[Superman]

Supe..Q..

..why is it better to have a good balanced offense than to have a record breaking, one dimensional offense..

Isnt more better. Isnt great better than good?

Denver's short passé were glorified runs

 

Short passes aren't glorified runs. The degree of difficulty and the standard of success for run plays vs pass plays is very different.

 

There are always games where your ability to run the ball allows your team to score more efficiently. There's nothing wrong with having a great passing attack, but it's still important to be able to run the ball effectively.

[NewColtsFan]

Supe..Q..

..why is it better to have a good balanced offense than to have a record breaking, one dimensional offense..

Isnt more better. Isnt great better than good?

Denver's short passé were glorified runs

 

Because a balanced attack makes stopping an offense much, much harder.   Less predictable.

 

Think about how many times you've heard defensive coaches (including our own Chuck Pagano)  say the defenses goal is to make the other team one dimensional by stopping the run.

 

Once you have made the other side abandon the run,  then the defense can let loose going after the QB with blitzes and such.

Different personnel packages to confuse the offense.

 

If you give a defense more to defend (passing and running) you force them to deal with everything and defend the entire field....

 

Just some food for thought....    Superman may have more and he will likely put it better than I can!   

[TAPLOOK]

Lots of Darwinism in this thread.