Moncrief as a returner?

[BrentMc11]

I am pretty sure the Colts are still very high on Brazill. I expect him to stay over Whalen and Rogers.

Camp competition....hot and heavy.  Injuries may occur making a difference too.  Rodgers, Brazill, and Whalen cannot afford to spend any time on the sidelines.  For that matter Moncrief too.

 

With almost every kick "un-returnable" these days, the kick returner position is much less important.  I want someone back there that makes good decisions on bringing it out or taking a knee.  We cannot have anymore of the nonsense we had last year.

[BrentMc11]

Im guessing 4 running backs and Havili

 

1.Richardson

2.Ballard

3.Bradshaw

4.Rainey

 

Fullback

1.Havili

 

Zurlon Im expecting will make the PS but I think he lacks speed and doesn't have great vision to me, He does have some power though...Not great in this category in my opinion, I do like that he does not take these huge jump cuts that I saw out of Richardson last year to often, Smooth runner in my opinion

I am not sold on Rainey over even Herron.  Herron was a nice addition to the special teams.

 

Zurlon?  We shall see him soon.

[Valpo2004]

They are high if they keep Brazil over Whalen. 

 

Or Rodgers for that matter.  He has the ability he just didn't have the time to pick up on the scheme entirely.  No time in training camp with us, plus he's a rookie.  Many rookie receivers struggle their first year.  Alshon Jeffery caught 24 balls for 367 yards and 3 TD's his rookie year, the next year he's catching 89 balls for 1421 yards.  And remember that guy was a 2nd round pick that got OTA's and Training camp with the Bears.  

 

I'd trade Brazil away personally.  He's had 2 full years with us and hasn't yet broken 200 yards in a season.  

 

I like Whalen more because he plays the slot better.  He has better hands and better route running.  All Brazil has right now is speed.  

 

Of the 3 Whalen/Brazil/Rodgers . . . Brazil has the least receiving yards last year.

 

Not to mention Brazil has a weed suspension, something the other two guys don't have.   

[CR91]

barring injury, moncrief wasnt gonna see the field anyway. might as well use him as a returner. at 6 2 220 with speed, thats hard to bring down at full speed

[ProblChld32]

Interesting i cant wait to see how this unfolds, if he pans out back there Griff possibly Brazil could be on the bubble.

[ProblChld32]

Griff won't make the team if Moncrief shows out as a returner.

 

I dont have him making the final 53 at all IMO. 

[throwing BBZ]

exactly if he is taking a WR roster spot he has to contribute and he is not going to see the field on offense that much his first year. It is a big transition for a  WR to the NFL I think we have been spoiled because we have had some exceptions in TY and Marvin even Wayne only had like 37 catches his first year all those guys played 4 years.  Moncrief isn't ready to be our 3rd WR he came out as a Jr needs time to develop.

 

 We will see if he actually returns some kicks, i`m sure the practice of it won`t hurt him.

 Sorry bub, but Reggie as a Rookie had a 27 catch Zero TD season.

[MTC]

Based on what?

 

Just an assumption. 

[TKnight24]

Camp competition....hot and heavy. Injuries may occur making a difference too. Rodgers, Brazill, and Whalen cannot afford to spend any time on the sidelines. For that matter Moncrief too.

With almost every kick "un-returnable" these days, the kick returner position is much less important. I want someone back there that makes good decisions on bringing it out or taking a knee. We cannot have anymore of the nonsense we had last year.

Moncrief isn't on the bubble. You don't cut a 3rd rounder in the first year unless you see absolutely nothing from them & even then you cut them slack due to their first year in the big boys game

Moncrief is basically a lock for the 53, the problem is how we'll utilize him not will he make the roster

[Coffeedrinker]

Just an assumption. 

I must admit, I don't understand.  You stated that you are pretty sure the Colts are still high on Brazill.  That sentence would indicate that a) the Colts have been high on Brazill in the past and b) you have read something or heard something to make you pretty sure the Colts still feel the same way.

 

Now, if you're just assuming they are, on what are you basing your assumptions?  Because I have not read or heard anything, although I admit I am not as well informed as some fans, especially those local to Indy.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

He has size & speed but he is a long strider which normally is not the best thing as a kick off guy. Also I think the guy has some talent as a WR would rather he work on that & I wouldn't want to get him hurt doing this stuff. Would rather see Griff, or Rainey I think!

[BrentMc11]

Moncrief isn't on the bubble. You don't cut a 3rd rounder in the first year unless you see absolutely nothing from them & even then you cut them slack due to their first year in the big boys game

Moncrief is basically a lock for the 53, the problem is how we'll utilize him not will he make the roster

I did not say Moncrief WAS on the bubble.  I said that the first 3 matter big time if they have nagging injuries.  I added Moncrief because he is a rookie needing the reps.

 

I mentioned in MTC's post that this is good competition, and it is.

 

This was from the above post....

 

With almost every kick "un-returnable" these days, the kick returner position is much less important.  I want someone back there that makes good decisions on bringing it out or taking a knee.  We cannot have anymore of the nonsense we had last year.

[BrentMc11]

I am having a big problem with those overlooking Brazill.  He showed hands and and some serious strength YAC last year....

 

Once again, he makes the team because of special teams too.  He loves to hit...PAGANO LIKES!  I do too.

[akcolt]

 We will see if he actually returns some kicks, i`m sure the practice of it won`t hurt him.

 Sorry bub, but Reggie as a Rookie had a 27 catch Zero TD season.

37 was pretty close off the top of my head that was a while ago.

 

I was trying to illustrate that it is not the norm for WR even HOF to take the league by storm and as Colts fans with TY and Marvin and Manning and Luck we may have become a bit spoiled to what other teams deal with. My point was Moncief isn't likely to step in become our 3rd receiver have a 50 catch season. Sorry I did not have the exact number of catches for Wayne I don't have time google everything. I just knew he didn't blow up.  

[akcolt]

Im guessing 4 running backs and Havili

 

1.Richardson

2.Ballard

3.Bradshaw

4.Rainey

 

Im a bit surprised we hung onto Rainey to this point, That makes three running backs coming off season ending injuries

 

 

Fullback

1.Havili

 

Zurlon Im expecting will make the PS but I think he lacks speed and doesn't have great vision to me, He does have some power though...Not great in this category in my opinion, I do like that he does not take these huge jump cuts that I saw out of Richardson last year to often, Smooth runner in my opinion

That would pretty much lock us into 5 WR's. There are going to be some tough calls getting this thing down to 53 I think Rainey needs a good camp obviously but he can be explosive

[CanuckColt]

I.     HATE!!!!     This.     Idea!!                         

 

I hope it's quickly abandoned.

No kidding...terrible idea...how to get one of your future stars started on concussions.

[Coffeedrinker]

I am having a big problem with those overlooking Brazill.  He showed hands and and some serious strength YAC last year....

 

Once again, he makes the team because of special teams too.  He loves to hit...PAGANO LIKES!  I do too.

He had some a couple of good runs after the catch and his special teams ability is good and may be the difference.  But here's why I like Whalen over Brazill

 

In 25 career games Brazill has 23 catches 347 yards and 3 TDs.  And the playoffs to that and you get 25 games, 29 catches for 474 yards and 5 TDs.

 

Whalen in 9 career games has 24 catches, 259 yards and 2 TDs.  Add the playoffs to that you get 31 catches 352 yards and 2 TDs.  

 

Additionally in the regular season (can't find the stats for the post season). Whalen had 14 first down catches(1.55 per game), Brazill has 14 (0.56 per game)in all 25 career games. 

 

Now stats don't tell the whole story, I know, but the combination of these stats shows that Brazill, while able to do something with the ball when he catches it, struggles to get open consistently enough to be relied upon.  Whalen, isn't going to give you much after the catch but he knows how to get open and how to get open knows how to move the chains.

[NewColtsFan]

Patrick Peterson might be the best player in Arizona. He returns punts

 

Fair point.

 

But I'd note this.....    Peterson is great at it.    He was great at it in college.     It didn't surprise anyone when Arizona had PP return punts because it's part of what he does.

 

Moncrief?

 

As I said in another post,  he may have done it before,  but no one mentioned it as a possibility for him until........   yesterday.

 

And maybe this will just be a tryout to see if he's good?     Who knows............?

 

But I'd hate to see the kid get hurt during the season and have that impact his 2015 season next year.........

 

Just sayin......

[BrentMc11]

He had some a couple of good runs after the catch and his special teams ability is good and may be the difference.  But here's why I like Whalen over Brazill

 

In 25 career games Brazill has 23 catches 347 yards and 3 TDs.  And the playoffs to that and you get 25 games, 29 catches for 474 yards and 5 TDs.

 

Whalen in 9 career games has 24 catches, 259 yards and 2 TDs.  Add the playoffs to that you get 31 catches 352 yards and 2 TDs.  

 

Additionally in the regular season (can't find the stats for the post season). Whalen had 14 first down catches(1.55 per game), Brazill has 14 (0.56 per game)in all 25 career games. 

 

Now stats don't tell the whole story, I know, but the combination of these stats shows that Brazill, while able to do something with the ball when he catches it, struggles to get open consistently enough to be relied upon.  Whalen, isn't going to give you much after the catch but he knows how to get open and how to get open knows how to move the chains.

I won't argue because I like them both too damned much.  In some ways I wish we had not drafted a wide receiver in the 3rd.  

 

Whalen was great returning punts too....and is a very nice possession receiver.  So sue me if I like them both 

[jvan1973]

Fair point.

But I'd note this..... Peterson is great at it. He was great at it in college. It didn't surprise anyone when Arizona had PP return punts because it's part of what he does.

Moncrief?

As I said in another post, he may have done it before, but no one mentioned it as a possibility for him until........ yesterday.

And maybe this will just be a tryout to see if he's good? Who knows............?

But I'd hate to see the kid get hurt during the season and have that impact his 2015 season next year.........

Just sayin......

football is a dangerous sport. Guys get hurt in non contact drills. You can't be afraid to try someone at a position for fear of injury

[Flash7]

The Vikings used rookie Cordarrelle Patterson as their kick returner. He has good size and speed- similar to Moncrief.

 

If Moncrief is our best returner, then so be it. Let's use him there so that he can help the team. We need to excel at all levels.

[NewColtsFan]

football is a dangerous sport. Guys get hurt in non contact drills. You can't be afraid to try someone at a position for fear of injury

 

That's another fair argument.     I think if there was a poll,  the majority of Colts fan would agree with you.

 

I didn't oppose TYH returning punts because he had a successful history of doing it.

 

And if Moncrief also had a history of doing it well,  I'd be OK with it.....

 

I'm just less comfortable with experimenting.     On the NFL level,  that's often how guys get hurt.    And I don't want Moncrief getting hurt.

 

On a risk/reward level,   I don't see enough upside and I see too much downside for my comfort level.

 

But,  I appreciate that my view is going to be the minority view on this......

[Coffeedrinker]

I won't argue because I like them both too damned much.  In some ways I wish we had not drafted a wide receiver in the 3rd.  

 

Whalen was great returning punts too....and is a very nice possession receiver.  So sue me if I like them both 

 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I am having a big problem with those overlooking Brazill.  He showed hands and and some serious strength YAC last year....

 

Once again, he makes the team because of special teams too.  He loves to hit...PAGANO LIKES!  I do too.

Agree Brazil is pretty good to should have mentioned him. It is going to be quite a battle at the WR position for sure!

[Stephen]

I think moncrief will be the number 3 or 4 wr depending on the health of wayne.

[wig]

Fair point.

But I'd note this..... Peterson is great at it. He was great at it in college. It didn't surprise anyone when Arizona had PP return punts because it's part of what he does.

Moncrief?

As I said in another post, he may have done it before, but no one mentioned it as a possibility for him until........ yesterday.

And maybe this will just be a tryout to see if he's good? Who knows............?

But I'd hate to see the kid get hurt during the season and have that impact his 2015 season next year.........

Just sayin......

He's an end of the third rd. pick, not someone you're counting on as a franchise player. If he can contribute, anywhere, you do it until he proves himself at receiver.

[akcolt]

He had some a couple of good runs after the catch and his special teams ability is good and may be the difference.  But here's why I like Whalen over Brazill

 

In 25 career games Brazill has 23 catches 347 yards and 3 TDs.  And the playoffs to that and you get 25 games, 29 catches for 474 yards and 5 TDs.

 

Whalen in 9 career games has 24 catches, 259 yards and 2 TDs.  Add the playoffs to that you get 31 catches 352 yards and 2 TDs.  

 

Additionally in the regular season (can't find the stats for the post season). Whalen had 14 first down catches(1.55 per game), Brazill has 14 (0.56 per game)in all 25 career games. 

 

Now stats don't tell the whole story, I know, but the combination of these stats shows that Brazill, while able to do something with the ball when he catches it, struggles to get open consistently enough to be relied upon.  Whalen, isn't going to give you much after the catch but he knows how to get open and how to get open knows how to move the chains.

Stats don't tell the whole story there is a reason that Brazil was drafted and made the 53 man roster the last 2 years. He has put on weight and is ready to roll this year don't think much is going to change. I would not surprise me if he beat out Roger's who had one catch in the post season to go along with DHB like drops.

 

Who do was in the slot? Who faced the better CB's? In the playoffs and after the injuries? Stats don't show that.

 

Brazil played in more games because he made the team.  He was a rookie how many were on special teams?.How many snaps did he get with the offense? He certainly wasn't in front of Reggie or TY or even Avery. 

 

I will tell you what doesn't lie is film go back and watch that touchdown catches vs NE that is what Brazil can do. I think a lot of people are sleeping on this guy. That is what training camp is for Brazil will be ready if we lose him on a numbers game I hope we get something in return.

 

http://thebiglead.com/2014/01/11/lavon-brazill-hauled-in-andrew-lucks-pass-to-get-colts-back-in-the-game-vs-the-patriots/

[akcolt]

He's an end of the third rd. pick, not someone you're counting on as a franchise player. If he can contribute, anywhere, you do it until he proves himself at receiver.

I think he is going to end up being a very good WR and a steal in this draft but I agree with you he is football player if he is on the roster he has to pull his weight and that is going to include some special teams work KO's and or PR's why not if he is a china doll why did we take him?

[Stephen]

When all is set and done moncrief will prob be the best wr on our roster.

[Gibbons180]

I think we got a steal with Donte. like one of the biggest steals in the draft. This year had so many good WR's we were lucky to have gotten him with 90th overall. That still blows my mind. I honestly think if this was any other draft that wasn't loaded with WR he would of been a low first or high second rounder. I am very excited to see him ball out for us. #FeedMoncrief #GoColts

[Coffeedrinker]

Stats don't tell the whole story there is a reason that Brazil was drafted and made the 53 man roster the last 2 years. He has put on weight and is ready to roll this year don't think much is going to change. I would not surprise me if he beat out Roger's who had one catch in the post season to go along with DHB like drops.

 

Who do was in the slot? Who faced the better CB's? In the playoffs and after the injuries? Stats don't show that.

 

Brazil played in more games because he made the team.  He was a rookie how many were on special teams?.How many snaps did he get with the offense? He certainly wasn't in front of Reggie or TY or even Avery. 

 

I will tell you what doesn't lie is film go back and watch that touchdown catches vs NE that is what Brazil can do. I think a lot of people are sleeping on this guy. That is what training camp is for Brazil will be ready if we lose him on a numbers game I hope we get something in return.

 

http://thebiglead.com/2014/01/11/lavon-brazill-hauled-in-andrew-lucks-pass-to-get-colts-back-in-the-game-vs-the-patriots/

Yes there was a reason he was drafted and there was a reason he made the 53 man roster, so what?  There was a reason Ryan Leaf was drafted and made the 53 man roster for a few years...  That really means nothing.

 

Also you're right film does not lie.  But you don't cherry pick film either and say... look at this one play... that is what you get.  You look at the whole body of work and that is what you get.  The flashes are nice but the whole body of work does not equal the flashes.

[Jay Kirk]

I am having a big problem with those overlooking Brazill.  He showed hands and and some serious strength YAC last year....

 

Once again, he makes the team because of special teams too.  He loves to hit...PAGANO LIKES!  I do too.

Exactly

[Jay Kirk]

I won't argue because I like them both too damned much.  In some ways I wish we had not drafted a wide receiver in the 3rd.  

 

Whalen was great returning punts too....and is a very nice possession receiver.  So sue me if I like them both 

Needless to say whoever departs someone snatches up right away and has a quality player.In the case of Brazil maybe a rising star.IMO his full potential has not been shown yet,totally up to him.

[BrentMc11]

Needless to say whoever departs someone snatches up right away and has a quality player.In the case of Brazil maybe a rising star.IMO his full potential has not been shown yet,totally up to him.

I just feel that an injury or two might play this out...unfortunate but part of the game.  Whalen has had some preseason issues in the past.  Yes...and we ALL know Brazill's issues in the not to distant past too.

[akcolt]

Yes there was a reason he was drafted and there was a reason he made the 53 man roster, so what?  There was a reason Ryan Leaf was drafted and made the 53 man roster for a few years...  That really means nothing.

 

Also you're right film does not lie.  But you don't cherry pick film either and say... look at this one play... that is what you get.  You look at the whole body of work and that is what you get.  The flashes are nice but the whole body of work does not equal the flashes.

I am just saying that Brazil has beat Whalen out already and your stats are skewed to present a point in the way you want to look stats are good that way. Ryan Leaf? How does he get in this? Desperation I would say or more evidence that you like to compare apples and oranges maybe don't know the difference who knows? 

 

I didn't cherry pick anything. I picked the biggest game of the year last year and showed what Brazil did in that game. Those were not from some preseason slop time game. That was the playoff game against NE our biggest game of either of their careers to date. That is what Brazil did.

 

Training camp will settle this as it has in the past. Brazil is bigger stronger faster and hits. He can do more I think that will play out again in camp. We will see that is why they have camp isn't it to decide who the best players are?

 

I think people are sleeping on Brazil it would not surprise me if he beat out Roger's I am quit confident Whalen will not be taking his roster spot. That is my opinion I may be wrong and you don't have to agree. But I did not cherry pick anything I went straight to the biggest game of the year. You on the other hand brought up Ryan Leaf.   

[CanuckColt]

Moncrief isn't on the bubble. You don't cut a 3rd rounder in the first year unless you see absolutely nothing from them & even then you cut them slack due to their first year in the big boys game

Moncrief is basically a lock for the 53, the problem is how we'll utilize him not will he make the roster

Just release Nicks...everything falls into place...rather than find out half way through the season that he really can't play anymore (like the Giants already found out).

[Coffeedrinker]

I am just saying that Brazil has beat Whalen out already and your stats are skewed to present a point in the way you want to look stats are good that way. Ryan Leaf? How does he get in this? Desperation I would say or more evidence that you like to compare apples and oranges maybe don't know the difference who knows? 

 

I didn't cherry pick anything. I picked the biggest game of the year last year and showed what Brazil did in that game. Those were not from some preseason slop time game. That was the playoff game against NE our biggest game of either of their careers to date. That is what Brazil did.

 

Training camp will settle this as it has in the past. Brazil is bigger stronger faster and hits. He can do more I think that will play out again in camp. We will see that is why they have camp isn't it to decide who the best players are?

 

I think people are sleeping on Brazil it would not surprise me if he beat out Roger's I am quit confident Whalen will not be taking his roster spot. That is my opinion I may be wrong and you don't have to agree. But I did not cherry pick anything I went straight to the biggest game of the year. You on the other hand brought up Ryan Leaf.   

The Ryan Leaf comment was directed soley at your, "he was drafted for a reason" remark.  Just because someone was drafted does not mean they have the skill to compete.

That is why they have camp, no doubt.

 

You did cherry pick, you looked at one game and said that is what he brings to the table.  That is the definition of cherry picking.{Def: Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position.}  Whereas, I looked at the entire body of work to date.  I broke down the stats based on regular season and playoffs and presented the entire argument.  You looked at one game.

 

Lastly, yes I brought up Leaf, it was to show you how asinine a comment like, "he was drafted for a reason," is.

[jvan1973]

Just release Nicks...everything falls into place...rather than find out half way through the season that he really can't play anymore (like the Giants already found out).

How are you on the wrong side of the argument on every single topic? Its baffling.

[HtownColt]

He's gonna be the 4th/5th receiver, special teams is what they do

[akcolt]

The Ryan Leaf comment was directed soley at your, "he was drafted for a reason" remark.  Just because someone was drafted does not mean they have the skill to compete.

That is why they have camp, no doubt.

 

You did cherry pick, you looked at one game and said that is what he brings to the table.  That is the definition of cherry picking.{Def: Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position.}  Whereas, I looked at the entire body of work to date.  I broke down the stats based on regular season and playoffs and presented the entire argument.  You looked at one game.

 

Lastly, yes I brought up Leaf, it was to show you how asinine a comment like, "he was drafted for a reason," is.

Are you talking about the camp that Brazil has made the 53 man roster in for 2 yrs now? It is the same thing you did with the stats and Leaf comment does it get more asinine than that?  You are right there are a lot asinine comments and one asinine person.

 

We will see in camp like we have for 2 years.