The Colts O could be unstoppable if Wayne accepts being a 3rd wr

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Pulls his head out of his butt? How about some blocking? How about not getting hit in the backfield 60% of the time he touched the ball? I understand some of the criticism but after all it does take the whole offensive line to block. If Luck wouldn't have been so good at avoiding the rush he would have been the top sacked QB is the league. Laying all the blame for the lack of a running game all on TRich is being blind to the real problems. Hopefully they got this corrected this season.

I see the problems not blind to it but EVERY other back we used last year was effective except Richardson with the same line mind you, Hum that tells you something. Yes best thing he does is block he is a good blocker. It seems to me he thinks he has moves and is a dancer. He is a big strong guy who should run north & south an hit the hole or jump skip to the hole. Saw NO BURST AT ALL? I haven't given up on the guy will know more about him this year, but at this point a #1 for him I don't think so. He can catch the ball though. Also good at short yardage too. At this point I am cautiously optimistic an will root for him! But not holding my breath!

[HGRekks]

I see the problems not blind to it but EVERY other back we used last year was effective except Richardson with the same line mind you, 

Only one other back had more than 50 carries and only one more had more than 15. I don't know that those are justifiable sample sizes.

[Jason_]

Wow!  I've seen my fair share of reaches on this forum and I am probably guilty of making my fair share as well but you must have some of the longest arms in creation to come up with this one.  Teams did not pull coverage from one of the most electric young receivers in the game because they were worried about an undrafted free agent.

 

I'm not sure what you have against Hilton, I don't really care, but give credit where credit is due please don't try to claim that Roger's 14 receptions and 2 TDs is the reason Hilton did well.

 

Hmm,. maybe that's what the Bengals were thinking and that's why they got torched by Rogers.  First, Rogers isn't your typical "UDFA WR" and I know you know that so it shouldn't need to be pointed out.  Second, you can't deny that teams had to account for Rogers moreso than they would have needed to had it been DHB, Brazill or Whalen.   And that was the all the point I was making...teams couldn't focus solely on Hilton at the WR position; they now had to account for a potential second threat.

 

And I have nothing at all against Hilton.  the only "negative" thing I've said about him is that I don't think he's qualified, at this point in his career, to be a true #1 WR.  That's it.  I've said nothing derogatory about him at all.  I just don't think he's capable, right now, to carry an offense without at least a second equal or greater threat at the WR position to help draw some of the coverage.

[crazycolt1]

I see the problems not blind to it but EVERY other back we used last year was effective except Richardson with the same line mind you, Hum that tells you something. Yes best thing he does is block he is a good blocker. It seems to me he thinks he has moves and is a dancer. He is a big strong guy who should run north & south an hit the hole or jump skip to the hole. Saw NO BURST AT ALL? I haven't given up on the guy will know more about him this year, but at this point a #1 for him I don't think so. He can catch the ball though. Also good at short yardage too. At this point I am cautiously optimistic an will root for him! But not holding my breath!

The Colts were rated 20th in the league in the rush department. So lets not get carried away with how many Colt running backs were effective.

[TKnight24]

The Colts were rated 20th in the league in the rush department. So lets not get carried away with how many Colt running backs were effective.

Donald Brown has ONE good year (contract year at that) and people say the the Colts had effective RB's

Forum is hilarious

[akcolt]

So what happened during that 5 game stretch after Reggie got hurt in the Denver game?  To me, being a #1 WR has nothing to do with size, but rather can you still produce when you're the one the defense is focusing on, and when Reggie got hurt and teams started focusing on Hilton they were able to shut him down.  That's why I don't believe that Hilton is capable of being a #1  WR at this point.  

The two games immediately following 87 going down TY went 7-121 and 7-130-3.  The only game he had less than 5 receptions in was was the Cinny game 2 catches on 5 looks. That was also the game that Rogers and Brazil went off.

 

Then he had 224yds  vs KC and 103 yds vs NE in the playoffs. I am pretty sure both of those teams were trying to shut him down.

 

What 5 game stretch are you talking about? The only one I see was a 4 game run vs Tenn Arz Tenn Cinn. We touched on the Cinny game.  The other 3 his was the teams leader in receptions with at least 5 yards he was held to  44,38,46. The two games vs Tenn Fleener had good games over a 100 yards in one. It appeared that Titans struggled with Fleener would say match up there and did anyone show up in for AZ?

 

I know TY wouldn't so I was going to but his shoulder was dinged for a minute but I don't think anyone shut him down even down games he led the team in receptions.

[akcolt]

Pulls his head out of his butt? How about some blocking? How about not getting hit in the backfield 60% of the time he touched the ball? I understand some of the criticism but after all it does take the whole offensive line to block. If Luck wouldn't have been so good at avoiding the rush he would have been the top sacked QB is the league. Laying all the blame for the lack of a running game all on TRich is being blind to the real problems. Hopefully they got this corrected this season.

I don't want to get going on Trent Pep didn't help him with play calling  but you are right about Luck too he avoids the sack because he is strong and can stand in but

 

Nobody in the NFL gets knocked to the ground after a pass quite like Andrew Luck. Luck has 78 QB hits through 15 weeks, including plays cancelled by penalty. That's 25 more than any other quarterback in the league, a huge margin

[crazycolt1]

I don't want to get going on Trent Pep didn't help him with play calling  but you are right about Luck too he avoids the sack because he is strong and can stand in but

 

Nobody in the NFL gets knocked to the ground after a pass quite like Andrew Luck. Luck has 78 QB hits through 15 weeks, including plays cancelled by penalty. That's 25 more than any other quarterback in the league, a huge margin

There is a relation to all of this. TRich not being as good as some people thinks he should be and the rush and hits on Luck. Both are results of very poor offensive line play. The tape of TRich shows when he gets good run blocking he is very good. Part of the reason he was dancing and trying to juke the defender is he had no blocking. It become a mental thing from there. Trying too hard to make something happen when there was nothing to get. We shall see how this works out. I may have to eat my words but it wouldn't be the first!

[akcolt]

There is a relation to all of this. TRich not being as good as some people thinks he should be and the rush and hits on Luck. Both are results of very poor offensive line play. The tape of TRich shows when he gets good run blocking he is very good. Part of the reason he was dancing and trying to juke the defender is he had no blocking. It become a mental thing from there. Trying too hard to make something happen when there was nothing to get. We shall see how this works out. I may have to eat my words but it wouldn't be the first!

Trent could have 2000 total yards this year and it wouldn't be enough for some. I believe in the kid can't say that about the O Line yet but I am optimistic sure is a lot riding on Holmes.

[crazycolt1]

Trent could have 2000 total yards this year and it wouldn't be enough for some. I believe in the kid can't say that about the O Line yet but I am optimistic sure is a lot riding on Holmes.

True enough that's for sure.

[Gavin]

Trent could have 2000 total yards this year and it wouldn't be enough for some. I believe in the kid can't say that about the O Line yet but I am optimistic sure is a lot riding on Holmes.

Not just Holmes but Thornton improving, And the emergence of one of our other Guards if Donald Thomas cant go right away

[akcolt]

Not just Holmes but Thornton improving, And the emergence of one of our other Guards if Donald Thomas cant go right away

[akcolt]

Not just Holmes but Thornton improving, And the emergence of one of our other Guards if Donald Thomas cant go right away

[akcolt]

We have options at G if Grigs really won't play rookie C's we have a lot of cookies in Holmes basket or it appears that way now.

Again I am optimistic about the O Line but there is a lot riding on Holmes being at least serviceable

[ColtsHappy]

1. Ty Hilton is too small to be a #1.

So little Marvin Harrison can be a #1 no problem, but not little TY?

 

hmmmmmmmmm

 

ColtsHappy

[ColtsRule815]

Man, I hope like HELL that T-Rich ends up being worth the roster slot this season.

[Malakai432]

You're not hearing me. Talent wise, he can be a #1. But field maturity/knowledge of the game like Reggie has is what Hilton is missing. He still has a lot to learn before I'd trust him lining up outside consistently

And Vick is good, but if we're talking healthy..... Bradshaw is the best & hardest runner in a Colts uniform

And my personal preference is having tall WR's outside & the little/shifty guys in the slot

Definitely see what your saying but technically the guy beats out a Wayne in every statistic via his first two years there is absolutely no comparison to production for the first two years, Hilton wins hands down. I do agree is he quite a #1 yet, no. He is definitely a top young WR, no doubt about it about it. It may he tough for him to top 1k though with the depth at WR. This WR core if healthy is a top core on paper. Key point key if healthy, hah!!!!

[Superman]

So little Marvin Harrison can be a #1 no problem, but not little TY?

 

hmmmmmmmmm

 

ColtsHappy

 

This is a tough comparison to make. Marvin was special, historically. Your prototypical #1 threat has usually been bigger and taller than Marvin was.

 

Maybe Hilton will be special, historically, but it's kind of ambitious to say that he can do it because Marvin could do it.

[Superman]

Definitely see what your saying but technically the guy beats out a Wayne in every statistic via his first two years there is absolutely no comparison to production for the first two years, Hilton wins hands down. I do agree is he quite a #1 yet, no. He is definitely a top young WR, no doubt about it about it. It may he tough for him to top 1k though with the depth at WR. This WR core if healthy is a top core on paper. Key point key if healthy, hah!!!!

 

Wayne played in a different era, and struggled to produce because he was still refining himself as a receiver. Just because Hilton has produced more through two years doesn't mean he'll have the kind of career that Reggie has.

 

I'm a huge Hilton fan, and I don't think his size or current limitations mean that he can't have a great career as a #1 option. I just don't like a lot of these comparisons. I think they're a little sloppy.

[Malakai432]

Wayne played in a different era, and struggled to produce because he was still refining himself as a receiver. Just because Hilton has produced more through two years doesn't mean he'll have the kind of career that Reggie has.

I'm a huge Hilton fan, and I don't think his size or current limitations mean that he can't have a great career as a #1 option. I just don't like a lot of these comparisons. I think they're a little sloppy.

Ohh yeah, I wasn't implying that overall he would have a better career. Reggie has had a phenominal career, if TY can have a similar one overall that would be great. I have no idea who will technically be the #1 rec (after Reggie is gone) because there is so much potential there with the young WRs, Moncreif, Da'Rick, Hilton, Nicks is still young and who knows how he will fair. Limitless potential with this WR core. Hopefully all stay healthy.

[Coffeedrinker]

Hmm,. maybe that's what the Bengals were thinking and that's why they got torched by Rogers.  First, Rogers isn't your typical "UDFA WR" and I know you know that so it shouldn't need to be pointed out.  Second, you can't deny that teams had to account for Rogers moreso than they would have needed to had it been DHB, Brazill or Whalen.   And that was the all the point I was making...teams couldn't focus solely on Hilton at the WR position; they now had to account for a potential second threat.

 

And I have nothing at all against Hilton.  the only "negative" thing I've said about him is that I don't think he's qualified, at this point in his career, to be a true #1 WR.  That's it.  I've said nothing derogatory about him at all.  I just don't think he's capable, right now, to carry an offense without at least a second equal or greater threat at the WR position to help draw some of the coverage.

So let me get this straight.. Rogers had one good game and it's because he's not a typical UDFA but a superstar in the making.  Hilton has multiple good/great games and it's because he has an equal or greater WR threat opposite of him.  I just don't think I can follow that chain of thought.  Additionally, Hilton is not capable of being a number 1 because he had a few games of which he had poor production as he was getting used to the responsibility of being a number one receiver.  Rogers, again, had one good game and then had several games of poor production but he's the reason for Hilton doing well?  That makes no sense.  If anything the argument goes the other way... the main reason Rogers had a good game is because the Bengals focused on Hilton.

 

Rogers is a typical UDFA... a talented player that, for one reason or another, has some questions about whether he can make it in the pros.  Did you even watch how most teams played Rogers?  When it was man coverage they had a man on Rogers and the others playing zone would roll more to Hilton's side.  When a team was playing zone, they rolled the zone to Hilton's side.  They played Rogers the same as they played any other outside receiver not named Hilton.

 

Lastly, neither Brazill, Whalen nor Rogers are an equal to or greater receiving threat than Hilton.  So your hypothesis that Hilton cannot carry the team unless that condition has been met has already been proven wrong because Hilton did just that after Wayne went down last year.

[Surge89]

So let me get this straight.. Rogers had one good game and it's because he's not a typical UDFA but a superstar in the making.  Hilton has multiple good/great games and it's because he has an equal or greater WR threat opposite of him.  I just don't think I can follow that chain of thought.  Additionally, Hilton is not capable of being a number 1 because he had a few games of which he had poor production as he was getting used to the responsibility of being a number one receiver.  Rogers, again, had one good game and then had several games of poor production but he's the reason for Hilton doing well?  That makes no sense.  If anything the argument goes the other way... the main reason Rogers had a good game is because the Bengals focused on Hilton.

 

Rogers is a typical UDFA... a talented player that, for one reason or another, has some questions about whether he can make it in the pros.  Did you even watch how most teams played Rogers?  When it was man coverage they had a man on Rogers and the others playing zone would roll more to Hilton's side.  When a team was playing zone, they rolled the zone to Hilton's side.  They played Rogers the same as they played any other outside receiver not named Hilton.

 

Lastly, neither Brazill, Whalen nor Rogers are an equal to or greater receiving threat than Hilton.  So your hypothesis that Hilton cannot carry the team unless that condition has been met has already been proven wrong because Hilton did just that after Wayne went down last year.

 

He's a pretty special receiver :-)

 

Hilton that is...  (lol)

[BlueCollarColts]

Rogers body-type is starting to resemble Dez Bryant. I just hope he can put it all together. 

[ProblChld32]

Reggie is a very un selfish player he will do anything he can to help this team win, but you better believe he WILL be on that field and not on the backburner. If you ask me who i would rather throw to in a clutch situation out of all the current WR's on the Roster Reggie Wayne would be that guy. 

[Jason_]

I'm backing out of this conversation because I'm finding it increasingly difficult to carry on with a level head. I fully admit that some of my points went off track to an exaggerated degree that hurt, rather than helped, my argument.

 

I still stand by my original stance which is that, at this time, Hilton is not a truly capable #1 WR.  There's nothing wrong with that and that's not to say he can't reach that point some day.  In order to do so, imo, he will have to develop Marvin-like route running ability.  I believe that Moncrief or Rogers could become a true #1 before Hilton will.  

 

I don't dislike Hilton at all.  In fact I like him a lot.  However if he were our top receiving threat going into the season then I would be very worried.  

[BlueCollarColts]

I'm backing out of this conversation because I'm finding it increasingly difficult to carry on with a level head. I fully admit that some of my points went off track to an exaggerated degree that hurt, rather than helped, my argument.

 

I still stand by my original stance which is that, at this time, Hilton is not a truly capable #1 WR.  There's nothing wrong with that and that's not to say he can't reach that point some day.  In order to do so, imo, he will have to develop Marvin-like route running ability.  I believe that Moncrief or Rogers could become a true #1 before Hilton will.  

 

I don't dislike Hilton at all.  In fact I like him a lot.  However if he were our top receiving threat going into the season then I would be very worried.  

Maybe its just me, but I don't understand this logic of thinking at all.... Like, that guy is a few inches taller than that guy, so he is going to be a better #1 than that guy? I just don't get it.  I mean, DeSean Jackson is a #1 receiver no?

[Superman]

Maybe its just me, but I don't understand this logic of thinking at all.... Like, that guy is a few inches taller than that guy, so he is going to be a better #1 than that guy? I just don't get it.  I mean, DeSean Jackson is a #1 receiver no?

 

Using a very loose set of criteria...

 

DeSean Jackson is not the type of player that comes to mind when I think of a #1 receiver. He had a really good year last year, but in his 6th season, it was a statistical outlier.

[BlueCollarColts]

Using a very loose set of criteria...

 

DeSean Jackson is not the type of player that comes to mind when I think of a #1 receiver. He had a really good year last year, but in his 6th season, it was a statistical outlier.

He had 1,300+ yards and 9 TD's, those are #1 receiver type stats. The bottom line is defenses had a hard time covering him, and would have to send double teams his way, no different than any other #1 receiver, regardless of body type. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Only one other back had more than 50 carries and only one more had more than 15. I don't know that those are justifiable sample sizes.

Still productive While Richardson wasn't?

[Superman]

He had 1,300+ yards and 9 TD's, those are #1 receiver type stats. The bottom line is defenses had a hard time covering him, and would have to send double teams his way, no different than any other #1 receiver, regardless of body type. 

 

In 2013, yes. Like I said, a good year, but a statistical outlier for him. It was, by far, the best season of his career. Before that, he was averaging 55 catches, 957 yards and 5 TDs a year. That's not even close to #1 production.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

The Colts were rated 20th in the league in the rush department. So lets not get carried away with how many Colt running backs were effective.

The point is not how effective the Colts are at running the ball the point is Richardson was not effective at running the ball!

[BlueCollarColts]

In 2013, yes. Like I said, a good year, but a statistical outlier for him. It was, by far, the best season of his career. Before that, he was averaging 55 catches, 957 yards and 5 TDs a year. That's not even close to #1 production.

Yes, but my point was, last year Jackson was a legit #1, and he is basically the same type of player as Hilton, so why is it so hard to imagine Hilton as a #1? I mean, Hilton was beating double teams during the end of the year last year. 

[Superman]

Yes, but my point was, last year Jackson was a legit #1, and he is basically the same type of player as Hilton, so why is it so hard to imagine Hilton as a #1? I mean, Hilton was beating double teams during the end of the year last year. 

 

Well I don't personally think Hilton's body type is the problem. It's a limitation in certain ways, but it doesn't preclude him from being a #1. He's already had a better start to his career than Jackson did, I think he runs better routes and works harder. I'm not hung up on Hilton's size, but if you were building a #1 receiver from scratch, you wouldn't make him 5'9", 178 pounds. 

[COLT in J-ville]

I'm not saying TY is Marvin, but if anyone thinks someone can't be a #1 because they are too small is obviously forgetting who and what Marvin Harrison was.

 

If TY can't be the #1 for other reasons then let it be so.. but don't pin it on his size.

[NewColtsFan]

Well I don't personally think Hilton's body type is the problem. It's a limitation in certain ways, but it doesn't preclude him from being a #1. He's already had a better start to his career than Jackson did, I think he runs better routes and works harder. I'm not hung up on Hilton's size, but if you were building a #1 receiver from scratch, you wouldn't make him 5'9", 178 pounds. 

 

Just thinking out loud here.....

 

But is there a single #1 receiver on any of the 32 NFL teams that is TYH's size?

 

Is Doug Baldwin a #1 for Seattle?   Or was it Golden Tate or someone else last year?     Do you think of DeSean Jackson as Philly's #1, or was it Cooper or someone else last year?

 

Much of the answer may come down to how you define being a #1 receiver?    There may be some difference of opinion there...

[crazycolt1]

The point is not how effective the Colts are at running the ball the point is Richardson was not effective at running the ball!

So TRich is not a Colt? Sorry, your comment makes no sense because TRich is just one of the RBs the Colts played last season. And all of them combined were 20th in the league. Is that hard to understand?

[BlueCollarColts]

Just thinking out loud here.....

 

But is there a single #1 receiver on any of the 32 NFL teams that is TYH's size?

 

Is Doug Baldwin a #1 for Seattle?   Or was it Golden Tate or someone else last year?     Do you think of DeSean Jackson as Philly's #1, or was it Cooper or someone else last year?

 

Much of the answer may come down to how you define being a #1 receiver?    There may be some difference of opinion there...

I question ones sanity if they view Riley Cooper as more of a #1 receiver than DeSean Jackson.

[TKnight24]

I question ones sanity if they view Riley Cooper as more of a #1 receiver than DeSean Jackson.

Cooper is average. Now that's a WR who piggy backed the success of another WR (Jackson)

Now that Jackson is gone, the world will see that Cooper is average. They're banking on Maclin to come back & be the guy but I keep saying not everyone can be Adrian Peterson coming off an ACL injury. Shady McCoy is gonna end up carrying a larger load this year cause the Eagles passing attack is gonna suffer from the loss of Jackson

[NewColtsFan]

I question ones sanity if they view Riley Cooper as more of a #1 receiver than DeSean Jackson.

 

Well.....   first, I'd say Cooper is much better than you think he is,  even if he's not as good as DeSean Jackson.

 

Second, I'd say this goes back to a question I tossed out in an earlier post.....   and that is this....

 

How do you define a #1 receiver.    And I think the answer would vary from poster to poster.

 

Was Jackson more dangerous?    Yes.

 

But was he the go-to guy when it was 3rd and 6 and the QB had to get a first down?    I'm sure he was ever that guy.

 

Reggie Wayne hasn't been a dangerous guy since I joined this website two years ago....   but he's been the Colts #1 WR the entire time.    When Luck needs a key play, a key first down,  the guy he looks to first is Reggie Wayne.    TYH is way more dangerous,  but Wayne is the go-to guy when you need one.

 

There is a difference.....

[Stephen]

Ty has scored more Tds than any receiver on our roster the last two years so in my opinion he is a number one receiver or at the very least our number one scoring threat.