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Castonzo 5th year option?


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Correct me if I'm wrong but Anthony Castonzo should have a 5th year option on his contract that we decide to exercise this May.  I believe the 5th year will cost us around 7 million in cap space.  

 

Any word on if they are expected to exercise the option?  This would lock him up next season as well.  

 

For the record in May 2015 we have the ability to exercise a 5th year option on Luck's contract and that will cost us around 14 million.  That is something I think we should certainly do as extending Luck will likely cost us more then 14 million APY so we might as well get the extra year at a discount.

 

 

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Correct me if I'm wrong but Anthony Castonzo should have a 5th year option on his contract that we decide to exercise this May.  I believe the 5th year will cost us around 7 million in cap space.  

 

Any word on if they are expected to exercise the option?  This would lock him up next season as well.  

 

For the record in May 2015 we have the ability to exercise a 5th year option on Luck's contract and that will cost us around 14 million.  That is something I think we should certainly do as extending Luck will likely cost us more then 14 million APY so we might as well get the extra year at a discount.

Castonzo is a tough call, and I think I would pick up the 5th year, but have gone back and forth. $7M is at the top of the market for his likely market value should he be a free agent in 2015.  From that perspective it makes sense to let him hit the open market and see how it plays out.  In the end, picking up the option probably is better since it gives us the extra year to decide on the progress of an ascending player while maintaining our flexibility, and at a price that is pretty fair for the skillset he brings.

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Castonzo is a tough call, and I think I would pick up the 5th year, but have gone back and forth. $7M is at the top of the market for his likely market value should he be a free agent in 2015.  From that perspective it makes sense to let him hit the open market and see how it plays out.  In the end, picking up the option probably is better since it gives us the extra year to decide on the progress of an ascending player while maintaining our flexibility, and at a price that is pretty fair for the skillset he brings.

I don't like the idea of letting him hit the open market. I realize that Anthony has had his ups and downs in his first 3 years but he seems to take a pretty good beating from people on this forum. My opinion is that Anthony would definitely get a huge contract from another team. I'd like to keep him. Left Tackle is a critical position and I think Castonzo right now is an average LT pass blocking but I think he's definitely one of the top run blocking left tackles in the league.

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I don't like the idea of letting him hit the open market. I realize that Anthony has had his ups and downs in his first 3 years but he seems to take a pretty good beating from people on this forum. My opinion is that Anthony would definitely get a huge contract from another team. I'd like to keep him. Left Tackle is a critical position and I think Castonzo right now is an average LT pass blocking but I think he's definitely one of the top run blocking left tackles in the league.

 

Castonzo & Cherilus were Each among the bottom 1/3 giving up Sacks/Hits/Hurries. He is Not a finished product but he is also Not an Average pass defender. Considering his College and Pro experience at LT, one might expect he will have a tuff time EVER being an above average pass blocking LT. That is why he should have been moved to RT this past season.

 

 He was pretty much alone out there trying to produce a running game, BAD guard play and no Allen to help!

We ran Poorly to his outside (TRICH), very well right behind him about 41 times (10% of our rush attempts).

This may be the 1st offseason Castonzo has been healthy enough where he can fully work out to be at his Best.

 AC has consistently shown Quickness/Redirection limitations. But I DO NOT Question one bit his Effort, or Motivation,  

 

 IMO it will be a real Minus having two below average pass blocking Tackles come AFC Championship & SB Games.

 Of course it is logical that Castonzo will improve some, and his physical attributes, style, makes me think he has a high probability of staying on the field earning his paycheck. A Big Plus.

 That said, I expect Colts signing him to a 5 year contract at about $7M per, Before FA next year.

And if need be he can be moved to RT in 3 years if Cherilus needs to be cut for Cap/Performance reasons.

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I cant see the colts picking up the option. I think they extend him during the season or let him hit the market because its stupid to pay him 7 mil for what could be a one year rental

 

 

I hear what you're saying but don't agree with it. IMO , the Colts would be better served to pick up the option year this May. Then if they like him as their LT , they work on an extension. There is no issues of real consequence doing both. What it does is buy the Colts another year to find a replacement if another contract is not in the cards for Costanzo.

 

The last thing you would want is to be scrambling at the end of this year to protect A Luck's blind side in 2015. The worst that comes out of this is you over pay Costanzo by 1 -1.5 mill in 2015. 

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Actually, if you don`t have his Solid Replacement, it would be Incredibly Stupid not to pay Your System Experienced Reasonably talented LT $7M in a season you are a Real Contender to make a SB.

 

 

yep

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Actually, if you don`t have his Solid Replacement, it would be Incredibly Stupid not to pay Your System Experienced Reasonably talented LT $7M in a season you are a Real Contender to make a SB.

I guess I should have said that what I agree with is re-signing him before they allow him to hit the open market. I think he's good enough to warrant a contract like you described in another post and it basically amounts to 7 mil a year. But what I think doesn' t matter. I have the feeling that the Colts organization will make him an offer that is very fair and that he'll be around for another 5 years atleast.

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I hear what you're saying but don't agree with it. IMO , the Colts would be better served to pick up the option year this May. Then if they like him as their LT , they work on an extension. There is no issues of real consequence doing both. What it does is buy the Colts another year to find a replacement if another contract is not in the cards for Costanzo.

 

The last thing you would want is to be scrambling at the end of this year to protect A Luck's blind side in 2015. The worst that comes out of this is you over pay Costanzo by 1 -1.5 mill in 2015. 

 

so you wanna throw away 7 mil for someone that could have no long-term future with the team just to buy time

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Correct me if I'm wrong but Anthony Castonzo should have a 5th year option on his contract that we decide to exercise this May.  I believe the 5th year will cost us around 7 million in cap space.  

 

Any word on if they are expected to exercise the option?  This would lock him up next season as well.  

 

For the record in May 2015 we have the ability to exercise a 5th year option on Luck's contract and that will cost us around 14 million.  That is something I think we should certainly do as extending Luck will likely cost us more then 14 million APY so we might as well get the extra year at a discount.

 

My guess is we take the 5th year option and then immediate start re-negotiating the deal to extend him. 

 

He'll get a signing bonus so we can lower his cap hit which would be high,  and we'll want to lower that number to clear space for the eventual 2012 class.

 

Castanzo is at least middle of the pack for a left tackle.   And $7 Mill is just under the league average for a LT.    But he's gotten better each year.   He's trending upward.

 

But the key is to lower the cap hit.   And the way to do it is to extend him.

 

Under no circumstances do I want to let him hit the Free Agent market to find out his true no value.    Heck no!!

 

Extend him and clear cap space...................

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My guess is we take the 5th year option and then immediate start re-negotiating the deal to extend him. 

 

He'll get a signing bonus so we can lower his cap hit which would be high,  and we'll want to lower that number to clear space for the eventual 2012 class.

 

Castanzo is at least middle of the pack for a left tackle.   And $7 Mill is just under the league average for a LT.    But he's gotten better each year.   He's trending upward.

 

But the key is to lower the cap hit.   And the way to do it is to extend him.

 

Under no circumstances do I want to let him hit the Free Agent market to find out his true no value.    Heck no!!

 

Extend him and clear cap space...................

 

My feeling is that his cap hit on any long term contract is going to be around 7M APY anyways.  And I agree he's about an average starting LT.  Left tackles though are like QB's . . . even average starters are prized.  So it's not like he'd be easy to replace either through free agency or the draft.

 

You have to decide on this option in May before his last non-optional season starts.  I say exercise the option just so you have that extra time to sign the extension in case the negotiations go for a long time.  

 

I see no reason why to not do that.  

 

That's the value of the option IMO.  Probably doesn't save us money or really cost us money verses the extension, but it does give us an extra year that we hold the rights to him in which only we can negotiate with him.  

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so you wanna throw away 7 mil for someone that could have no long-term future with the team just to buy time

 

I think the plan is for him to have a long term future with this team.  Left tackles, even average ones don't just grow on tree's.  In fact they are inflated in the draft order.  Which means like QB's just getting an average starter level player means spending a first round pick on him.

 

On top of that teams RARELY let average or better left tackles hit the open market.  Every team knows that after getting a good QB, the 2nd most important thing is to protect his blind side.  He's not just a guy we can replace in free agency and if we want to replace him in the draft it's going to cost a first round pick IF (big if) we are lucky to have a solid starter level rookie left tackle fall to us.  Seeming how we are a winning team trying to contend for a SB, there is good reason to believe that type of player will not be available to us to draft in 2015. 

 

I don't think he's a player that we can allow to hit the open market.  

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I think the plan is for him to have a long term future with this team.  Left tackles, even average ones don't just grow on tree's.  In fact they are inflated in the draft order.  Which means like QB's just getting an average starter level player means spending a first round pick on him.

 

On top of that teams RARELY let average or better left tackles hit the open market.  Every team knows that after getting a good QB, the 2nd most important thing is to protect his blind side.  He's not just a guy we can replace in free agency and if we want to replace him in the draft it's going to cost a first round pick IF (big if) we are lucky to have a solid starter level rookie left tackle fall to us.  Seeming how we are a winning team trying to contend for a SB, there is good reason to believe that type of player will not be available to us to draft in 2015. 

 

I don't think he's a player that we can allow to hit the open market.  

 

Im not saying we should let him hit the market. Im saying the colts should try to extend him before they have to decide whether or not to use the option

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Im not saying we should let him hit the market. Im saying the colts should try to extend him before they have to decide whether or not to use the option

 

I'm not sure that we are allowed to.  You have to decide this in the May before the final year of his contract (without the option) so that means this May we have to decide it.

 

I don't think you can extend until they have played 4 years.

 

So either way I don't think we are allowed to approach him about extending until Feb of 2015.  After that we can do it any time.  Now we can either do that knowing that we have him on contract until early March of 2016 or we can do that knowing that we have to get him signed within 1 month.

 

The 5th year option basically gives us an entire year to negotiate the extension without risking losing him. 

 

Also I don't think it hurts us because I think that after the extension is signed we're still gonna be on the hook for about 7m APY.  So I really don't think extending him right away would save us any cap space.  

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I'm not sure that we are allowed to.  You have to decide this in the May before the final year of his contract (without the option) so that means this May we have to decide it.

 

I don't think you can extend until they have played 4 years.

 

So either way I don't think we are allowed to approach him about extending until Feb of 2015.  After that we can do it any time.  Now we can either do that knowing that we have him on contract until early March of 2016 or we can do that knowing that we have to get him signed within 1 month.

 

The 5th year option basically gives us an entire year to negotiate the extension without risking losing him. 

 

Also I don't think it hurts us because I think that after the extension is signed we're still gonna be on the hook for about 7m APY.  So I really don't think extending him right away would save us any cap space.  

 

well if thats the case then the option is the better choice if we can't start negotiating an extension

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Yeah I think that's the rule, otherwise you have to ask yourself why we havn't started trying to lock up Luck and others.  

 

You have to wait until after Year 3 to do a new contract. Castonzo is eligible for a new deal now. He's the only player left from the 2011 draft. As a first rounder, we have a fifth year option on him, as has been mentioned.

 

Luck and the others from the 2012 aren't eligible for a new deal until the 2015 offseason. We have a fifth year option on Luck and Richardson, but we can't exercise either until next year (and are unlikely to do so on Richardson, I would think).

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so you wanna throw away 7 mil for someone that could have no long-term future with the team just to buy time

 

 

That really was not a very well thought out post . Costanzo has been a pretty good LT and I haven't seen the Colts move to upgrade the position . So that makes me think it's very possible that they are happy with him. Your short sighted , lame post suggest that it's not possible for the Colts to want to extend Costanzo and maybe just not find the common ground to do so. If in the event the Colts are comfortable with him at LT , it does provide them ample time to do an extension or find a replacement. Now if the Colts think he's a stop gap type and just haven't got around to signing a free agent or drafting his replacement , then no... picking up the option would not be smart. I happen to think that he is a good LT and seems to be improving every year. 

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That really was not a very well thought out post . Costanzo has been a pretty good LT and I haven't seen the Colts move to upgrade the position . So that makes me think it's very possible that they are happy with him. Your short sighted , lame post suggest that it's not possible for the Colts to want to extend Costanzo and maybe just not find the common ground to do so. If in the event the Colts are comfortable with him at LT , it does provide them ample time to do an extension or find a replacement. Now if the Colts think he's a stop gap type and just haven't got around to signing a free agent or drafting his replacement , then no... picking up the option would not be smart. I happen to think that he is a good LT and seems to be improving every year. 

 

you obviously didnt read the whole thread. stop picking fights and actually read what I first said

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You have to wait until after Year 3 to do a new contract. Castonzo is eligible for a new deal now. He's the only player left from the 2011 draft. As a first rounder, we have a fifth year option on him, as has been mentioned.

 

Luck and the others from the 2012 aren't eligible for a new deal until the 2015 offseason. We have a fifth year option on Luck and Richardson, but we can't exercise either until next year (and are unlikely to do so on Richardson, I would think).

 

I am assuming when you say 2015 offseason, you mean the 2015-16 season. Not sure, but in reality, the others we drafted after Luck can all be extended after this season, the 2014 off season. The new CBA stipulates if you are drafted in the 2nd round or after, you have a 3 year contract with the right of a 4th year extension. This is what is happening with Kapernick and the 49ers right now. He was drafted in 2011, first year of the new CBA and he was a 2nd round pick. So they want to get him signed long term, and not wait until after the extension year, which is smart.

I want to make sure we get all the guys signed after this season from the 2012 draft without just signing their extension year. They are too valuable!  We have about 38M for 2015 right now. If we sign a couple low cost free agents and our 2014 draft class, my guess is we go into next year (2015) with around 35M. So don't extend Castanzo, I say sign him long term to about 7M a year/4yrs. He gets better every year, and for a LT who does not miss games, continues to improve I believe that is a good deal. Then get TY in the barn for 7-8M for 4 years. He may want more, but as mostly a slot, I am hoping for a ceiling of 8M. Then sign Fleener and Allen also to 4 yr. deals at around 5M each depending on the years they have. Yes one of them may demand more, I am only guessing here. That leaves us with around 10M in cap room for our 2015 draft picks and emergencies, and if a FA comes along we want, we can restructure.

As far as Andrew is concerned, my preference would be to also sign him after this season to his long term deal.  Make it a 7 year deal, with his 4th year cap hit, his extension year hit, and then 5 years at around 20M. If we sign him this way it will drastically reduce the cap hit compared to waiting after his extension year. We would have to redo some contracts to get it done, but in the long term it would be great.The one thing that is nice though is if we don't sign Luck after this season to a long term deal and then sign him in 2016, his extension year, regardless we have tons of cap space. If we get all the guys inked above after this year, and only have Andrew and the draft class to worry about (yes I know there will be some others, but I am looking at the important ones), we are going to have around 50M in cap space for 2016, so that is the argument for waiting after his 4th year and inking him in 2016.

 

I know this was about Castanzo, but I thought it was important to note, we can sign our 2012 class except Luck after this season. Plus when I think about Castanzo I like to look forward with the 2012 draft class since we have so many to sign.

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I am assuming when you say 2015 offseason, you mean the 2015-16 season. Not sure, but in reality, the others we drafted after Luck can all be extended after this season, the 2014 off season. The new CBA stipulates if you are drafted in the 2nd round or after, you have a 3 year contract with the right of a 4th year extension. This is what is happening with Kapernick and the 49ers right now. He was drafted in 2011, first year of the new CBA and he was a 2nd round pick. So they want to get him signed long term, and not wait until after the extension year, which is smart.

I want to make sure we get all the guys signed after this season from the 2012 draft without just signing their extension year. They are too valuable!  We have about 38M for 2015 right now. If we sign a couple low cost free agents and our 2014 draft class, my guess is we go into next year (2015) with around 35M. So don't extend Castanzo, I say sign him long term to about 7M a year/4yrs. He gets better every year, and for a LT who does not miss games, continues to improve I believe that is a good deal. Then get TY in the barn for 7-8M for 4 years. He may want more, but as mostly a slot, I am hoping for a ceiling of 8M. Then sign Fleener and Allen also to 4 yr. deals at around 5M each depending on the years they have. Yes one of them may demand more, I am only guessing here. That leaves us with around 10M in cap room for our 2015 draft picks and emergencies, and if a FA comes along we want, we can restructure.

As far as Andrew is concerned, my preference would be to also sign him after this season to his long term deal.  Make it a 7 year deal, with his 4th year cap hit, his extension year hit, and then 5 years at around 20M. If we sign him this way it will drastically reduce the cap hit compared to waiting after his extension year. We would have to redo some contracts to get it done, but in the long term it would be great.The one thing that is nice though is if we don't sign Luck after this season to a long term deal and then sign him in 2016, his extension year, regardless we have tons of cap space. If we get all the guys inked above after this year, and only have Andrew and the draft class to worry about (yes I know there will be some others, but I am looking at the important ones), we are going to have around 50M in cap space for 2016, so that is the argument for waiting after his 4th year and inking him in 2016.

 

I know this was about Castanzo, but I thought it was important to note, we can sign our 2012 class except Luck after this season. Plus when I think about Castanzo I like to look forward with the 2012 draft class since we have so many to sign.

 

To clarify, when I say the 2015 offseason, I mean next offseason. The offseason prior to the 2015 season.

 

Also, you're getting a lot right, but missing some details. The new CBA made all draft picks four year deals. First round picks have a fifth year option. So the Niners and Kaepernick are entering the final year of his contract -- the fourth year. They want to get a contract done before this season begins. And because he was a second rounder, the Niners don't have a fifth year option.

 

The situation with Castonzo is different, for a couple reasons. First off, he's a first round pick, so we do have a fifth year option. Second, he's a lineman, not a quarterback, so even if the Niners did have a fifth year option, it would be a lot more costly than our option on Castonzo, about twice as much.

 

I follow everything else pretty well, and don't necessarily disagree with anything. But the decision on Castonzo is a tricky one, since this is the first year anyone can exercise the fifth year option. The Panthers are getting ready to pick up the option on Newton, but the real test is what happens after that. How long it takes to reach a long term deal, what range it falls in, etc. That will set the table for what we do with Luck, hopefully. 

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To clarify, when I say the 2015 offseason, I mean next offseason. The offseason prior to the 2015 season.

 

Also, you're getting a lot right, but missing some details. The new CBA made all draft picks four year deals. First round picks have a fifth year option. So the Niners and Kaepernick are entering the final year of his contract -- the fourth year. They want to get a contract done before this season begins. And because he was a second rounder, the Niners don't have a fifth year option.

 

The situation with Castonzo is different, for a couple reasons. First off, he's a first round pick, so we do have a fifth year option. Second, he's a lineman, not a quarterback, so even if the Niners did have a fifth year option, it would be a lot more costly than our option on Castonzo, about twice as much.

 

I follow everything else pretty well, and don't necessarily disagree with anything. But the decision on Castonzo is a tricky one, since this is the first year anyone can exercise the fifth year option. The Panthers are getting ready to pick up the option on Newton, but the real test is what happens after that. How long it takes to reach a long term deal, what range it falls in, etc. That will set the table for what we do with Luck, hopefully. 

 

With Luck I think picking up the 5th year option is in our best interests.  I think the 5th year option on him would be around 14 million, but that's significantly less then what his extension will be as I think it will be around 20 million.  

 

I have a question on extensions though.  Say we sign an extension on Castanzo tomorrow.  I don't know say 4 years 30 million - 4 million dollar bonus + 2015 salary guaranteed.  Does that necessarily change his 2014 cap hit???  Or can it basically be stipulated that he doesn't start to get the big money until 2015.  

 

How does that work with whatever bonus we give him?  Does the bonus not start pro-rating until 2015 or do we have to add it to the 2014 cap?  

 

We should hope that the extension on Cam isn't too big because Luck will probably want comparable pay to Cam.  

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With Luck I think picking up the 5th year option is in our best interests. I think the 5th year option on him would be around 14 million, but that's significantly less then what his extension will be as I think it will be around 20 million.

I have a question on extensions though. Say we sign an extension on Castanzo tomorrow. I don't know say 4 years 30 million - 4 million dollar bonus + 2015 salary guaranteed. Does that necessarily change his 2014 cap hit??? Or can it basically be stipulated that he doesn't start to get the big money until 2015.

How does that work with whatever bonus we give him? Does the bonus not start pro-rating until 2015 or do we have to add it to the 2014 cap?

We should hope that the extension on Cam isn't too big because Luck will probably want comparable pay to Cam.

I agree on Luck.

To answer your question about the signing bonus, it would affect this year's cap hit, but the base salary could be adjusted to compensate. In Castonzo's case, only a portion of his 2014 base is guaranteed, so there's some wiggle room. But if you're only doing a $4m signing bonus, that's only an increase of $800k. No big deal. The bigger base salaries and cap hits would start in 2015. Of course, that's all negotiable, but technically, it would work.

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I agree on Luck.

To answer your question about the signing bonus, it would affect this year's cap hit, but the base salary could be adjusted to compensate. In Castonzo's case, only a portion of his 2014 base is guaranteed, so there's some wiggle room. But if you're only doing a $4m signing bonus, that's only an increase of $800k. No big deal. The bigger base salaries and cap hits would start in 2015. Of course, that's all negotiable, but technically, it would work.

 

I see, so a lot depends on how big the bonus is.  

 

I have to say that it does sound like a good idea as that would allow us to give him more money while taking on some of the cap hit based on the bonus now which would allow us to reduce his hit later in the contract.

 

In this case it's about $200,000 per year reduction.  

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I see, so a lot depends on how big the bonus is.  

 

And whether there's any remaining guaranteed money, and if so, how much. I just checked Castonzo's numbers, and according to Spotrac, NONE of his 2014 base of $1.466m is guaranteed. I thought that half of it was guaranteed. So you could write a contract that gives him a signing bonus right now, but reduces his base salary by $800k, and his cap hit would stay the same in 2014. Then, based on your scenario, the remaining $27m or so would be spread out from 2015-2018. 

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And whether there's any remaining guaranteed money, and if so, how much. I just checked Castonzo's numbers, and according to Spotrac, NONE of his 2014 base of $1.466m is guaranteed. I thought that half of it was guaranteed. So you could write a contract that gives him a signing bonus right now, but reduces his base salary by $800k, and his cap hit would stay the same in 2014. Then, based on your scenario, the remaining $27m or so would be spread out from 2015-2018. 

 

So if you sign an extension with guaranteed money left on the contract does that guaranteed money get pro-rated through the whole contract or what?

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So if you sign an extension with guaranteed money left on the contract does that guaranteed money get pro-rated through the whole contract or what?

 

You can technically convert whatever guaranteed salary remains into signing bonus, but again, that's a point of negotiation. If you do, it gets prorated. In Castonzo's case, that's not a big deal either way, because it's just under $1.5m remaining (even if it were guaranteed).

 

Short answer, no, it doesn't have to be prorated. 

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Castonzo would make a much better right tackle in my opinion.

I agree as well but we have Cherilus over there and he played pretty good and is making big money. Last year I was all for moving Costanzo to RT because I agree he is a good run blocker but his feet can get kinda sticky on the pass rushers. I just think he is a natural stud RT. If we had used that free agent money we paid Cherilus to get a great LT we would have upgraded both positions and been set long term....also lowering Costanzo's perceived future contract value. I think we would have made Costanzo a better fit (performance) and if we had secured a franchise LT we would have had book end tackles. As it is we have good tackles but I wouldn't say great. I think we will use the 5th year option on Costanzo unless we see an upgrade out on the market or he plays poorly...otherwise it seems a no brainer and immediately work on a long term contract or future replacement. To me there is no guarantee Constanzo stays given his play. He can be upgraded if the right guy is out there or falls to us in the draft next year. That said it I think he ends up staying and getting that 5th year before we let him test the market.

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