If John Elway was Peyton's GM during Colts days.

[Shane Bond]

The way Elway is building the team around Peyton is very impressive. He is quite aggressive from the get go and is not afraid to take his chances. I am sure we can say the same for Belichick.

 

Lets replace Polian with Elway and i wonder how Colts would have looked the last 12 yrs. No slight to Polian but i thought Polian was so in love with drafting process and i feel Colts didn't take advantage fully of Peyton.

 

Below author echoes similar thoughts.

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/3/18/5520454/horse-tracks-john-elway-and-denver-broncos-focused-on-ultimate-prize

[Jonathan24]

Elway is doing a good job but it hasnt translated to a championship.... Peyton got wins with Polian also...

[The Peytonator]

He's being aggressive but I'm not really a fan of all his moves. His drafts have been average and the best way to build a team long-term is through the draft...not signing every overpaid FA available; Aqib Talib.

[Shane Bond]

He's being aggressive but I'm not really a fan of all his moves. His drafts have been average and the best way to build a team long-term is through the draft...not signing every overpaid FA available; Aqib Talib.

Sure but Colts had glaring weakness in defense and special teams especially ( 2006 to 2011 ). I dont recollect any free agency signing. Even look at Grigson, he is aggressive.

 

Aqib Talib could essentially be broken down to an one year contract. I will try find the break down.

[The Peytonator]

Sure but Colts had glaring weakness in defense and special teams especially ( 2006 to 2011 ). I dont recollect any free agency signing. Even look at Grigson, he is aggressive.

 

Aqib Talib could essentially be broken down to an one year contract. I will try find the break down.

 

 

Yes, Polian should have been more proactive in free agency. I like Grigson's method a lot more than Elway's, but I don't know if Elway would have had any more success than Polian.

 

It's subjective but either way, it's all moot.....Elway would never be a Colt lol.

[ztboiler]

The way Elway is building the team around Peyton is very impressive. He is quite aggressive from the get go and is not afraid to take his chances. I am sure we can say the same for Belichick.

 

Lets replace Polian with Elway and i wonder how Colts would have looked the last 12 yrs. No slight to Polian but i thought Polian was so in love with drafting process and i feel Colts didn't take advantage fully of Peyton.

 

Below author echoes similar thoughts.

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/3/18/5520454/horse-tracks-john-elway-and-denver-broncos-focused-on-ultimate-prize

You can't compare Elway's task to win now with Polian's task to build a long term contender, at least not directly.  But, I'll take the bait, and still love the discussion.  

 

The lessons learned aren't really about free agency splurging - you couldn't build a team that way then and you can't now. However, there are lessons to learn about balancing how you value your own vs. filling an occassional need on the outside.  

 

The real lessons learned center around the principles  that went unfulfilled during Peyton's run with the Colts, and its a cop out to say that we simply didn't have a good enough defense.  No, we built our defense on the wrong principles and held the playoff ceiling of our team artificially low in doing so. You shouldn't try to run the Tampa 2 without Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks and you shouldn't expect to find those players in the draft if you're drafting where a P Manning team will draft.  It's a scheme dependent on players that you may or may not be able to find or afford. So...in my opinion, you have to be willing to coach your defense and take some measured risks in order to take the fight to the other team.  Sometimes in the playoffs, good teams will have a gameplan that knocks you out of rhythm - they'll out-scheme you - and if you only have vanilla in your D playbook, and you won't get close enough to the other teams receivers to force a turnover, then you really only have the option to cope with it and hope your offense can get hot like it does most of the time in the regular season.  

 

What does this have to to with Polian?  I love Dungy, and he brought us a Superbowl, but it was ultimately Polian's job to measure the big picture and confront why this marriage of scheme and personnel would never win in the playoffs at the rate our QB should have.  Polian himself has frequently said, "They only make so many DT's that can move and be disruptive, and we never drafted high enough to get one".  He may have recognized it too late, but as the top exec, this was his true failing amidst all of his legendary success that he rightly deserves the credit for.

[Shane Bond]

You can't compare Elway's task to win now with Polian's task to build a long term contender, at least not directly.  But, I'll take the bait, and still love the discussion.  

 

The lessons learned aren't really about free agency splurging - you couldn't build a team that way then and you can't now. However, there are lessons to learn about balancing how you value your own vs. filling an occassional need on the outside.  

 

The real lessons learned center around the principles  that went unfulfilled during Peyton's run with the Colts, and its a cop out to say that we simply didn't have a good enough defense.  No, we built our defense on the wrong principles and held the playoff ceiling of our team artificially low in doing so. You shouldn't try to run the Tampa 2 without Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks and you shouldn't expect to find those players in the draft if you're drafting where a P Manning team will draft.  It's a scheme dependent on players that you may or may not be able to find or afford. So...in my opinion, you have to be willing to coach your defense and take some measured risks in order to take the fight to the other team.  Sometimes in the playoffs, good teams will have a gameplan that knocks you out of rhythm - they'll out-scheme you - and if you only have vanilla in your D playbook, and you won't get close enough to the other teams receivers to force a turnover, then you really only have the option to cope with it and hope your offense can get hot like it does most of the time in the regular season.  

 

What does this have to to with Polian?  I love Dungy, and he brought us a Superbowl, but it was ultimately Polian's job to measure the big picture and confront why this marriage of scheme and personnel would never win in the playoffs at the rate our QB should have.  Polian himself has frequently said, "They only make so many DT's that can move and be disruptive, and we never drafted high enough to get one".  He may have recognized it too late, but as the top exec, this was his true failing amidst all of his legendary success that he rightly deserves the credit for.

Exactly what i am referring.

[Fx Stryker]

What does this have to to with Polian?  I love Dungy, and he brought us a Superbowl, but it was ultimately Polian's job to measure the big picture and confront why this marriage of scheme and personnel would never win in the playoffs at the rate our QB should have.  Polian himself has frequently said, "They only make so many DT's that can move and be disruptive, and we never drafted high enough to get one".  He may have recognized it too late, but as the top exec, this was his true failing amidst all of his legendary success that he rightly deserves the credit for.

I think Polian did recognize this. He didn't want to hire Dungy. Irsay forced him on the plane, and made him like the idea of Dungy as our coach.

[Bluefire4]

Elway has more cap space because he doesn't have big dollars invested in players yet like Polian had with Wayne, Clark, Harrison, Saturday etc. Plus Manning only makes 15 million which is underpaid with the other QBs making 20 plus.

[jvan1973]

Elway has more cap space because he doesn't have big dollars invested in players yet like Polian had with Wayne, Clark, Harrison, Saturday etc. Plus Manning only makes 15 million which is underpaid with the other QBs making 20 plus.

you may want to check that Manning salary

[ztboiler]

I think Polian did recognize this. He didn't want to hire Dungy. Irsay forced him on the plane, and made him like the idea of Dungy as our coach.

You could be right, but Polian has never stood by and put up with anything he didn't approve of that has his stamp on it - it is not his make-up.  No, if Polian is the HOF GM he deserves to be then its on him and it was his call.

[Fx Stryker]

You could be right, but Polian has never stood by and put up with anything he didn't approve of that has his stamp on it - it is not his make-up.  No, if Polian is the HOF GM he deserves to be then its on him and it was his call.

 

It wasn't his call though. Irsay wanted Dungy and Polian didn't. He can't tell the owner of the team no.

[ztboiler]

It wasn't his call though. Irsay wanted Dungy and Polian didn't. He can't tell the owner of the team no.

I understand, and that has always been the story, but if Polian deviated from what he believed in, that is on him.  He was responsible for making it work - that is the full summary of his job description, and it didn't work as well as it might have. He voted yes by standing by, if the story is true - and if he knew there was a flaw yet couldn't convince the owner to let him do his job, then he failed to make his point in a convincing way or should have left on the spot.  Either way, it's on him.

[Dustin]

It wasn't his call though. Irsay wanted Dungy and Polian didn't. He can't tell the owner of the team no.

Polian wanted Nick Saban. Irsay made the right choice in the end thankfully

[BOTT]

I think Polian did recognize this. He didn't want to hire Dungy. Irsay forced him on the plane, and made him like the idea of Dungy as our coach.

And Polian said he was totally on board with hiring Dungy aftter the interview and being totally impressed with Dungy.

[chad72]

A few things that I do like about Elway as a GM:

 

1. Elway does not bang his head against the wall doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. He adapts quickly. Polian took how many years to get some DTs with beef in the middle to stop the run that our divisional opponents and playoff opponents used against us to gash us and control tempo. If anything, Broncos' secondary was the issue and not the run D in 2012 vs Flacco. Their run D stuffed Blount, flat out in the 2013 playoffs. He has taken steps to correct it, lets see how it pans out in 2014. Polian let good LBs go while re-signing offensive players to 3rd contracts etc. and that never helped our run D get off the blocks either.
2. Special teams - gosh, this has to be the area where Polian neglected the Colts the most. Stop overpaying for Cover 2 zone CBs and MLBs like Brackett, sign value free agents that can help your special teams and not watch Ellis Hobbs, Devin Hester, Dante Hall, Antwan Randle El etc. take it to the house against us more often than not. It was definitely the neglected step child.
3. Colts did not build quality depth in their roster, their roster probably had about 25-30 players that contributed while rosters like the Patriots and Steelers had about 40 players that contributed in some form or fashion. So, they had to protect it by resting starters that had mixed results in the playoffs, IMO. Once Freeney went down, twice in a span of 3 years, the Colts pass rush went down the toilet.

 

The handicaps that Elway will be dealing with is a Peyton that is nowhere close to his prime that Polian had, and then a coach that does not bring too much extra to the "preparation" table in John Fox, which I would say is a wash with Dungy. So, the more Elway gets the team success reliance on the field away from Peyton's arm, the more successful he will be.

[amfootball]

Not sure we have not enough on Elway as a GM to compare to Polian who was successful with three different franchises as GM. Went to 6 SBs and won one. His resume is one of the best of any GM.

 

Elway has not had much. He had the one year with Tebow and now these last couple with Manning where he was the AFC fav and came up short the first season losing to the Ravens and getting blown out by the Hawks. Also Elway is being forced to go all in with Manning at the end of this career. I want to see what he does with a young QB and how he build the team around him to contend year after year.

[sweetsurrender]

With Elway as GM, the Colts would hold the record for most playoff games getting obliterated. He is king of the beat down as a player and as a GM.

[sreylas937]

He is building the team for the short term, these contracts are gonna catch up to him... 

[OldManP]

The way Elway is building the team around Peyton is very impressive. He is quite aggressive from the get go and is not afraid to take his chances. I am sure we can say the same for Belichick.

 

Lets replace Polian with Elway and i wonder how Colts would have looked the last 12 yrs. No slight to Polian but i thought Polian was so in love with drafting process and i feel Colts didn't take advantage fully of Peyton.

 

Below author echoes similar thoughts.

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/3/18/5520454/horse-tracks-john-elway-and-denver-broncos-focused-on-ultimate-prize

If only Brady had played with Marvin and Reggie in their prime....

If only Warren Moon had played with Randy Moss....

If only Bert Jones had performed for the Colts like he did in the 1990 NFL QB competition....

If only Jeff George hadn't sucked....

If only Ditka was the coach of the 2013 Ravens....

[OldManP]

Not sure we have not enough on Elway as a GM to compare to Polian who was successful with three different franchises as GM. Went to 6 SBs and won one. His resume is one of the best of any GM.

 

Elway has not had much. He had the one year with Tebow and now these last couple with Manning where he was the AFC fav and came up short the first season losing to the Ravens and getting blown out by the Hawks. Also Elway is being forced to go all in with Manning at the end of this career. I want to see what he does with a young QB and how he build the team around him to contend year after year.

I want to see him use all that genius to develop a QB.

[amfootball]

I want to see him use all that genius to develop a QB.

Me too. He also needs to dump Fox.

[OldManP]

Me too. He also needs to dump Fox.

You should like Fox.

[jvan1973]

I want to see him use all that genius to develop a QB.

he is the GM, not the QB coach or OC

[chad72]

Me too. He also needs to dump Fox.

 

Something is weird to me. Elway said at the combine he would like to get Fox extended. No talk of it yet, maybe he is not keen on extending Fox and fine to let him proceed in a lame duck fashion this year, maybe.

[Shane Bond]

If only Brady had played with Marvin and Reggie in their prime....

If only Warren Moon had played with Randy Moss....

If only Bert Jones had performed for the Colts like he did in the 1990 NFL QB competition....

If only Jeff George hadn't sucked....

If only Ditka was the coach of the 2013 Ravens....

If only you didn't care posting

[OldManP]

he is the GM, not the QB coach or OC

As usual, you are off-track.  He is only the GM because of his performance as the QB of the Broncos.

 

He SHOULD be persona non grata to any Colts fan. What would you say if Luck had threatened to play baseball rather than play football for the Colts?

 

If you Jonnie-come-latelys want to embrace all the success of the Colts in Baltimore then you must embrace all the bad stuff.  John Elway should be derided on this message board.  If you don't get that, then you should not celebrate #19 or any other Baltimore Colts.

[jvan1973]

As usual, you are off-track. He is only the GM because of his performance as the QB of the Broncos.

He SHOULD be persona non grata to any Colts fan. What would you say if Luck had threatened to play baseball rather than play football for the Colts?

If you Jonnie-come-latelys want to embrace all the success of the Colts in Baltimore then you must embrace all the bad stuff. John Elway should be derided on this message board. If you don't get that, then you should not celebrate #19 or any other Baltimore Colts.

I have never celebrated anything about Baltimore other than the crab cakes. The town, other than the wharf is a steaming pile.

[Shane Bond]

 He is only the GM because of his performance as the QB of the Broncos.

 

 

He retired in 1998 playing QB. He came back as GM in 2011. Thats 13 years gap. He owned an auto franchise and Arena team during that time.

 

Calling him a GM just because of his performance as QB is ignorant.

[jvan1973]

He retired in 1998 playing QB. He came back as GM in 2011. Thats 13 years gap. He owned an auto franchise and Arena team during that time.

Calling him a GM just because of his performance as QB is ignorant.

as are most of his posts

[OldManP]

I have never celebrated anything about Baltimore other than the crab cakes. The town, other than the wharf is a steaming pile.

Great.  Then the Colts have only won 1 NFL title.

[jvan1973]

Great. Then the Colts have only won 1 NFL title.

the only one i have ever counted

[amfootball]

Something is weird to me. Elway said at the combine he would like to get Fox extended. No talk of it yet, maybe he is not keen on extending Fox and fine to let him proceed in a lame duck fashion this year, maybe.

Yeah, I wonder if the Super Bowl is giving him some pause. It should.

[coltsblue1844]

Yes, Polian should have been more proactive in free agency. I like Grigson's method a lot more than Elway's, but I don't know if Elway would have had any more success than Polian.

It's subjective but either way, it's all moot.....Elway would never be a Colt lol.

Grigson gave contracts to McGlynn, Satele, Costa, DHB, and more that I'd rather not have...

Elway gave contracts to Peyton, Welker, DRC, Talib, Ward,Vasquez etc...

While both have made good moves, I wish Grigson couldve/would've made several of the moves that Denver has...

We have been more fortunate with the draft, thanks to Grigson's first year (Luck/TY/Allen/Fleener etc)...but considering the fact that we have had more cap space each year, I wish we could've fixed the o line and parts of the secondary

[BOTT]

With Elway as GM, the Colts would hold the record for most playoff games getting obliterated. He is king of the beat down as a player and as a GM.

Yes, how dare Elway carry those early mediocre Denver teams to the SB where they were outmatched.

[oldunclemark]

He's being aggressive but I'm not really a fan of all his moves. His drafts have been average and the best way to build a team long-term is through the draft...not signing every overpaid FA available; Aqib Talib.

The game has changed..,,because of the rookie salary caps.....you build through free agency now just as well as through the draft

 

The acquisition of Vasquez was a strong move.....you cant downplay getting DeMarcus Ware and Wes Welker

 

..and you're forgetting he acquired Manning...who had the greatest offensive season of all time..

 

It would be nit picking to say he's had anything but booming success as a GM

[oldunclemark]

He is building the team for the short term, these contracts are gonna catch up to him... 

Not true....He seeded Ball at HB....Vasquez in the line....most of the defense is young..

 

He's got 2 very promising backup QBs in waiting,,

 

     They have no contracts (including Peyton's) that they cant get put of

[The Old Crow]

My wish would be Peyton threatened to play for the Yankees if Elway drafted him out of college, and refused to trade him to another team. That would drive home the point of how much a jerk Elway really was.

[Dark_Indy]

The way Elway is building the team around Peyton is very impressive. He is quite aggressive from the get go and is not afraid to take his chances. I am sure we can say the same for Belichick.

 

Lets replace Polian with Elway and i wonder how Colts would have looked the last 12 yrs. No slight to Polian but i thought Polian was so in love with drafting process and i feel Colts didn't take advantage fully of Peyton.

 

Below author echoes similar thoughts.

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/3/18/5520454/horse-tracks-john-elway-and-denver-broncos-focused-on-ultimate-prize

 

Elway took Peyton to the Super Bowl in two years. Not really  a failure, but he is setting the Broncos up for a few years of cap hell and bottom of the West after Peyton retires. I just don't think the Broncos are going to be able to get past the Seahawks or the 49ers unless they get tougher on the offensive side of the ball. They need Wideouts that aren't afraid to go and manhandle CBs off the line of scrimmage- something they don't have with Welker, Thomas, Thomas and now Sanders.

[NewColtsFan]

I wouldn't get too excited yet over everything John Elway has done.

 

History shows you can't buy your way to a Super Bowl.     And that most FA moves don't pan out to the extent that you pay for them.     In other words,   you rarely get enough bang for your buck.

 

Grigson is just starting his 3rd year as GM and was handicapped in his first year by $40 million in dead cap space....   why people are still posting about his signings that first year when he didn't have much better choices is a mystery to me.

 

This is not rocket science.     And yet some people still have trouble understanding this.

 

Elway didn't start with a team as bad as Grigson did.    The Colts were in much worse shape when Grigson took them over than the Broncos were when Elway took them over.    Big, big difference.