Single-season TD pass record questions

[oldunclemark]

Most TD passes - single season - NFL - all time

 

1. Tom Brady (2007) 50 - age 30

2. Peyton Manning (2004) 49 - age 28

3. Dan Marino (1984) 48 -  age 23

4. Peyton Manning (2013) - 47 -age 37

5. Drew Brees (2011) - 46 - age 32

 

6. Aaron Rodgers (2011) - 45 - age 28

7. Dan Marino (1986) - 44 - age 25

8. Drew Brees (2012) - 43 - age 33

9. Matthew Stafford (2011) - 41 - age 23

10. Kurt Warner (1999) - 41 - age 28

 

 

..Some things come to mind...your comments are welcome....

 

I believe Peyton Manning will tie or pass Brady's record Sunday but ...

 

. How many TDs would Manning have to throw to equal what Dan Marino did in another era..with old school rules...when it was much tougher to pile up TD passes?

 

..and wasnt Dan Marino...in his 20s...really the best ever?? Not greatest because no SBs? But best?

 

* Do Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers (and Denver-Manning) deserve more credit because they rolled up these totals out doors in colder weather (Denver is not as cold as Green Bay or Boston) cities?

 

* Could Matthew Stafford throw 60 indoors if that team ever matures?

 

*Is Peyton throwing 51 TDs (or more) outdoors at age 37 the greatest single season ever for a QB because of his age and his comeback

 

* Did every NFL team really pass on Kurt Warner?

 

* Can anybody average 4 TD passé a game (total of 64)?

[Shane Bond]

If Peyton played full 60 minutes for all 16 games in 2004, it would have been 55 or 56 easily.

 

Same with this year, there are lot of games, he was killing the clock in 4th quarter.

 

I do not know the scenarios for Dan Marino and his games but i know Brady played till the end of 60 minutes of the last game during his 50 TDs.

[oldunclemark]

  But in Marino's day...you could hold the WR's almost all the way down the field.

 

..also..you could hit the QB in the knee and in the head..head slap the O-linemen

 

..and decapitate the flankers

 

..wasn't it a tougher era for offense...?

 

..and Marino went to the house a record 49 times... :rulez:

[oldunclemark]

sorry....Marino's mark was 48....still great

[Nobody]

Not enough of a difference between Denver and NE/GB to say Brady or Rodgers had better years.

[amfootball]

I don't think any one year is better than any other. Whenever a QB throws 40 something or 50 something TDs it is historic and stands on its own as a great season.

[oldunclemark]

Not enough of a difference between Denver and NE/GB to say Brady or Rodgers had better years.

 

 

Dr. No...

 

I was surprised at that but its significantly warmer (maybe 10 degrees)  in Denver in the winter than it is in Boston..on average

 

It was 65 degrees in Denver this week...

 

..and Green Bay is a winter nightmare, isn't it?

[House]

I don't know what it says about my fandom, but I just do not care about these individual records like I used to.

The closest I got to excited over one was AP last year, but Calvin Johnson didn't really peak my interest.

Great great players no doubt. Not disparaging any of them. I just used to be really excited about these things and now I could care less.

[WastedColt]

Just based on the era I see Marino's as the most impressive. If somebody threw 60+ today I could see that as equivalent

[Superman]

 

* Do Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers (and Denver-Manning) deserve more credit because they rolled up these totals out doors in colder weather (Denver is not as cold as Green Bay or Boston) cities?

 

 

This is so overblown. How many games did Brady and Rodgers play in actual notable weather, and how many TDs did they throw in that weather? In Brady's case, he started out on fire, then really slowed down at the end of the year. Over the last six games of the season, he averaged 2 TDs a game. There was some cold and some wind in there, nothing like playing in a dome, but he also didn't put up record breaking stats in those conditions. He built those stats up during the first 10 games of the season, in milder conditions.

 

I'm not downplaying Brady's accomplishments, just saying he's not some weather gladiator.

 

Aaron Rodgers total TDs weren't as many, but his overall stats were phenomenal. His efficiency was off the charts.

 

I think Manning's 2013 is going to be looked at as extra special, given his age, his injury recovery, etc. 

[oldunclemark]

That's another good question....House

 

because a lot of people felt like you do..

 

Adrian Peterson's run to the rushing record was a landmark push..worthy of every honor...

 

Peyton's approach of the TD record seems to be met with 'ho-hum' its 'him' again

[oldunclemark]

This is so overblown. How many games did Brady and Rodgers play in actual notable weather, and how many TDs did they throw in that weather? In Brady's case, he started out on fire, then really slowed down at the end of the year. Over the last six games of the season, he averaged 2 TDs a game. There was some cold and some wind in there, nothing like playing in a dome, but he also didn't put up record breaking stats in those conditions. He built those stats up during the first 10 games of the season, in milder conditions.

 

I'm not downplaying Brady's accomplishments, just saying he's not some weather gladiator.

 

Aaron Rodgers total TDs weren't as many, but his overall stats were phenomenal. His efficiency was off the charts.

 

I think Manning's 2013 is going to be looked at as extra special, given his age, his injury recovery, etc. 

 

 

This is so overblown. How many games did Brady and Rodgers play in actual notable weather, and how many TDs did they throw in that weather? In Brady's case, he started out on fire, then really slowed down at the end of the year. Over the last six games of the season, he averaged 2 TDs a game. There was some cold and some wind in there, nothing like playing in a dome, but he also didn't put up record breaking stats in those conditions. He built those stats up during the first 10 games of the season, in milder conditions.

 

I'm not downplaying Brady's accomplishments, just saying he's not some weather gladiator.

 

Aaron Rodgers total TDs weren't as many, but his overall stats were phenomenal. His efficiency was off the charts.

 

I think Manning's 2013 is going to be looked at as extra special, given his age, his injury recovery, etc. 

I agree...

 

,,but I admit I do like the phrase  'Tom Brady!  Weather Gladiator!!  

[GoPats]

 

I do not know the scenarios for Dan Marino and his games but i know Brady played till the end of 60 minutes of the last game during his 50 TDs.

 

That's because they almost lost that game (against the Giants) and were actually trying to go 16-0. There were some blowouts earlier in the year and in the middle part of their schedule where he stayed in, but the last six games they played were (at least a little) more competitive:

 

31-28 over Philly

27-24 over Baltimore

34-13 over Pittsburgh

20-10 over NYJ

28-7 over Miami

38-35 over NYG

 

Either way, to answer the OP's question... 

 

50+ TDs is impressive in any era. I do think that at some point soon, someone is going to break whatever record Manning sets this year. Maybe it's Stafford or Rodgers... heck, maybe it's Luck if they can get him some better weapons.

 

TD throws will eventually follow passing yardage trends. Up until 2008, a QB only surpassed 5,000 yards once. Since then, and including that season, it's been done five times. 

 

 

1. Drew Brees (32) 5,476 2011 NOR 2. Tom Brady (34) 5,235 2011 NWE 3. Drew Brees (33) 5,177 2012 NOR 4. Dan Marino+ (23) 5,084 1984 MIA 5. Drew Brees (29) 5,069 2008 NOR 6. Matthew Stafford (23) 5,038 2011 DET

 

And seven of the top 10 seasons in terms of passing yardage have come in the last two full seasons (2011 and 2012). We'll probably get two more this year breaking 5,000 (Manning and Brees, again). 

 

TD passes will inevitably follow this trend. It used to be that the benchmark for consistent greatness was 4,000 yards and 30 TD passes, but records are always broken, and the ante is always upped.

[oldunclemark]

       I dont know how far past 51 Peyton will go because the final foe is Oakland...who's had severe breakdowns in the secondary.

 

..if that game isn't close......there's no reason for him to throw the ball down the field.

 

I'd bet they make sure he gets to 51..but that may be it.

[Superman]

That's because they almost lost that game (against the Giants) and were actually trying to go 16-0. There were some blowouts earlier in the year and in the middle part of their schedule where he stayed in, but the last six games they played were (at least a little) more competitive:

 

31-28 over Philly

27-24 over Baltimore

34-13 over Pittsburgh

20-10 over NYJ

28-7 over Miami

38-35 over NYG

 

 

We can nitpick Brady's season if we want, in comparison to Manning 2004 and Rodgers 2011 (Brady had 80 more attempts than the other two), but either way you slice it, 50 TDs and 16-0 is outstanding. The games where maybe he stayed in longer than necessary were all earlier in the year. He wasn't chasing down a record at the end of the season, he was trying to win games, and they were mostly close games.

[oldunclemark]

Just based on the era I see Marino's as the most impressive. If somebody threw 60+ today I could see that as equivalent

I've got some old tapes and I'm always amazed at what you could do to the receivers 10-20 years ago

[supremecoltsfan300]

The rule changes are overblown. Since the 80s, it's been the same pass interference rules for the most part. You know why QBs have better stats now? Because they're better than qbs in the past. From gradeschool, qbs nowadays are trained and nutritioned to be nfl QBs. We have all these "scientific" muscle training and nutrition programs nowadays that are all designed to make qbs (and all athletes for that matter) perform better.

In regard to the record, I think 04 was the best ever, just look at that ridiculous TD percentage Manning had. I think his year is #2 because of the age factor and brady is #3 with marino #4. Rodgers was impressive but that was the lockout year and stats were definitely inflated. Since then the only guys who have put up impressive numbers are brees, peyton, brady, and rodgers (the usual suspects). sure stafford went 5k last year but it wasnt impressive as he chucked it nearly 750 times to do so. I think a good way to look at this by looking at what the competition is doing in that year.

Peyton is so off the charts relative to his peers this year, and outside of brees, he's way above everyone else.

[oldunclemark]

The rule changes are overblown. Since the 80s, it's been the same pass interference rules for the most part. You know why QBs have better stats now? Because they're better than qbs in the past. From gradeschool, qbs nowadays are trained and nutritioned to be nfl QBs. We have all these "scientific" muscle training and nutrition programs nowadays that are all designed to make qbs (and all athletes for that matter) perform better.

In regard to the record, I think 04 was the best ever, just look at that ridiculous TD percentage Manning had. I think his year is #2 because of the age factor and brady is #3 with marino #4. Rodgers was impressive but that was the lockout year and stats were definitely inflated. Since then the only guys who have put up impressive numbers are brees, peyton, brady, and rodgers (the usual suspects). sure stafford went 5k last year but it wasnt impressive as he chucked it nearly 750 times to do so. I think a good way to look at this by looking at what the competition is doing in that year.

Peyton is so off the charts relative to his peers this year, and outside of brees, he's way above everyone else.

Oh no...Lord mo

 

You could crush receivers head to head crossing the middle as late as the 90s and it was legal

 

..and there was no 5-yard 'chuck' rule in the 80s when marino smoked the NFL

 

That rule (called fondly the NE Patriot rule) came in thelast decade

 

..also..you could drive the the QB into the  ground after the throw..and hit him low simultaneousily with the throw until just recently..and don't think they didnt

 

Don't ever say the rule changes are overblown. 

[Superman]

       I dont know how far past 51 Peyton will go because the final foe is Oakland...who's had severe breakdowns in the secondary.

 

..if that game isn't close......there's no reason for him to throw the ball down the field.

 

I'd bet they make sure he gets to 51..but that may be it.

 

I think he'll get to 51 this Sunday, maybe in the first half. Back in a dome, against a struggling secondary? Yeah, I can see him throwing 4+ this week.

[bayone]

Most TD passes - single season - NFL - all time

 

1. Tom Brady (2007) 50 - age 30

2. Peyton Manning (2004) 49 - age 28

3. Dan Marino (1984) 48 -  age 23

4. Peyton Manning (2013) - 47 -age 37

5. Drew Brees (2011) - 46 - age 32

 

6. Aaron Rodgers (2011) - 45 - age 28

7. Dan Marino (1986) - 44 - age 25

8. Drew Brees (2012) - 43 - age 33

9. Matthew Stafford (2011) - 41 - age 23

10. Kurt Warner (1999) - 41 - age 28

 

 

..Some things come to mind...your comments are welcome....

 

I believe Peyton Manning will tie or pass Brady's record Sunday but ...

 

. How many TDs would Manning have to throw to equal what Dan Marino did in another era..with old school rules...when it was much tougher to pile up TD passes?

 

..and wasnt Dan Marino...in his 20s...really the best ever?? Not greatest because no SBs? But best?

 

* Do Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers (and Denver-Manning) deserve more credit because they rolled up these totals out doors in colder weather (Denver is not as cold as Green Bay or Boston) cities?

 

* Could Matthew Stafford throw 60 indoors if that team ever matures?

 

*Is Peyton throwing 51 TDs (or more) outdoors at age 37 the greatest single season ever for a QB because of his age and his comeback

 

* Did every NFL team really pass on Kurt Warner?

 

* Can anybody average 4 TD passé a game (total of 64)?

 

 

 

I think he'll get to 51 this Sunday, maybe in the first half. Back in a dome, against a struggling secondary? Yeah, I can see him throwing 4+ this week.

 

 

 

BTW peytons 48th & 49 TDS were  Vs charges with now Texans interim HC wade phiilips as DC

 

peyton went in for 1 series that last game of 2004, vs denver and in next game in playoff , again played denver and threw 4 TDS

 

That is besides the other times he didnt play like scorching the lions on Thanksgiving and leaving the last quarter i think after 6 TTds, and another time hardly played with seating wrapped up

 

----------

Lets see if they leave the dome open ala colts

 

Weather pretty realtively  warm actuaally  , but quite humid so ball may be slippery , and depending where weather website u go, Winds 10-20 MPH with higher gusts , all left from severe thunderstorms  for the 2 days prior   that can always extend into sunday as to early to really call the weather in advance

 

would love him to get the record again

 

but  get the win record or not

[-JJ-]

Oh no...Lord mo

 

You could crush receivers head to head crossing the middle as late as the 90s and it was legal

 

..and there was no 5-yard 'chuck' rule in the 80s when marino smoked the NFL

 

That rule (called fondly the NE Patriot rule) came in thelast decade

 

..also..you could drive the the QB into the  ground after the throw..and hit him low simultaneousily with the throw until just recently..and don't think they didnt

 

Don't ever say the rule changes are overblown. 

Actually the 5 yard chuck rule was called the Mel Blount rule and introduced during his time. Your point is still taken because the 5 yard rule was not strictly enforced- it became a 7-8 yard cushion.

 

The point of emphasis is what changed it to enforcing 5 yards, period.  ie: 5.5 yards would get called. It wasn't called the Patriots rule since other teams were doing it because- well the refs didn't call it strictly.

[Moose Of Woe]

 

Same with this year, there are lot of games, he was killing the clock in 4th quarter.

 

 

He actually hasn't been pulled in games this year.The defense is so inept they haven't been able to close out games/put them out of reach.

[Superman]

He actually hasn't been pulled in games this year.The defense is so inept they haven't been able to close out games/put them out of reach.

 

He was pulled in the Eagles game. Last series was at the end of the third quarter. Other than that, he's been playing the entire game.

[oldunclemark]

Actually the 5 yard chuck rule was called the Mel Blount rule and introduced during his time. Your point is still taken because the 5 yard rule was not strictly enforced- it became a 7-8 yard cushion.

 

The point of emphasis is what changed it to enforcing 5 yards, period.  ie: 5.5 yards would get called. It wasn't called the Patriots rule since other teams were doing it because- well the refs didn't call it strictly.

JJ....I know its not the 'Patriot' rule    I'm just kidding..

  but you know what I'm referrng to:

 

The mugging Colts receivers got in NE in the early yaers of the Manning days..

 

5-yard contact was called much closer after that

 

Willie McGinest talks about it all the time on the NFL Net

[oldunclemark]

I think he'll get to 51 this Sunday, maybe in the first half. Back in a dome, against a struggling secondary? Yeah, I can see him throwing 4+ this week.

 

Could be..especially if Matt Schaub gets hot and the game is close

[buccolts]

I don't know what it says about my fandom, but I just do not care about these individual records like I used to.

The closest I got to excited over one was AP last year, but Calvin Johnson didn't really peak my interest.

Great great players no doubt. Not disparaging any of them. I just used to be really excited about these things and now I could care less.

 

Yeah, rules changes, steriods (baseball), and records being approached, or going down, kinda dampers the enthusiasm.

They're not as special as they used to be.

[dgambill]

Pure passing season I still think Dan Marino's in 84 is the bigger accomplishment. The rules (while the same) weren't enforced the same....and you have to look at the record when it was broken...how long it lasted etc etc and compare to his contempararies that season. Second I would say is Peyton's season in 04 and then Brady's in 07. The only thing to me that makes this one anymore special is the AGE that Peyton is doing it at...and the physical health he has. His body is clearly about 75% what it used to be.....he is doing with his brain this year...and not so much his arm.

 

I still think Marino in my mind is potentially the greatest pure qb of all time....not winner....but talented qb. Manning and Brady just got the most out of their talent.

[SilentHill]

I hope manning throws 0 TD on Sunday (Due to Fantasy reasons) After that, have fun..

[Moose Of Woe]

He was pulled in the Eagles game. Last series was at the end of the third quarter. Other than that, he's been playing the entire game.

Forgot about that one. Still, it's not like 2004 where he essentially missed several games worth of football.

 

 

Maybe the D will buckle down against HOU and OAK. There's no excuse not to grossly outplay at least one of them, but we'll see what happens.

[amfootball]

That's because they almost lost that game (against the Giants) and were actually trying to go 16-0. There were some blowouts earlier in the year and in the middle part of their schedule where he stayed in, but the last six games they played were (at least a little) more competitive:

 

31-28 over Philly

27-24 over Baltimore

34-13 over Pittsburgh

20-10 over NYJ

28-7 over Miami

38-35 over NYG

 

Either way, to answer the OP's question... 

 

50+ TDs is impressive in any era. I do think that at some point soon, someone is going to break whatever record Manning sets this year. Maybe it's Stafford or Rodgers... heck, maybe it's Luck if they can get him some better weapons.

 

TD throws will eventually follow passing yardage trends. Up until 2008, a QB only surpassed 5,000 yards once. Since then, and including that season, it's been done five times. 

 

 

1. Drew Brees (32) 5,476 2011 NOR 2. Tom Brady (34) 5,235 2011 NWE 3. Drew Brees (33) 5,177 2012 NOR 4. Dan Marino+ (23) 5,084 1984 MIA 5. Drew Brees (29) 5,069 2008 NOR 6. Matthew Stafford (23) 5,038 2011 DET

 

And seven of the top 10 seasons in terms of passing yardage have come in the last two full seasons (2011 and 2012). We'll probably get two more this year breaking 5,000 (Manning and Brees, again). 

 

TD passes will inevitably follow this trend. It used to be that the benchmark for consistent greatness was 4,000 yards and 30 TD passes, but records are always broken, and the ante is always upped.

The other thing about Brady's year is he did it with not much of a running game. Welker was more of the run game substitute with his short yardage catches. Brady also introduced the league to the spread offense and set the receiver record with Moss with both records falling on the same TD which also won the last game of the season securing perfection with as you say several fourth quarter comebacks the last several weeks. This is why I put Brady's season ahead of everyone's including Manning's this year. There was so much to it beyond just the number of TDs thrown. It was historical and every sense of the word and something every team going forward will be judged by. Can they win them all and throw the most TDs and have a receiver break 23 TDs? I doubt we ever see 16-0 again.

[jvan1973]

The other thing about Brady's year is he did it with not much of a running game. Welker was more of the run game substitute with his short yardage catches. Brady also introduced the league to the spread offense and set the receiver record with Moss with both records falling on the same TD which also won the last game of the season securing perfection with as you say several fourth quarter comebacks the last several weeks. This is why I put Brady's season ahead of everyone's including Manning's this year. There was so much to it beyond just the number of TDs thrown. It was historical and every sense of the word and something every team going forward will be judged by. Can they win them all and throw the most TDs and have a receiver break 23 TDs? I doubt we ever see 16-0 again.

You and other pats fans are the only folks who believe that season is more impressive than the season Manning and the broncos are having right now. I put Bradys 2007 season behind Marinos 84 season,mannings 04 season and mannings current season

[amfootball]

You and other pats fans are the only folks who believe that season is more impressive than the season Manning and the broncos are having right now. I put Bradys 2007 season behind Marinos 84 season,mannings 04 season and mannings current season

We all have our opinions. I gave my reasons why which I believe stand on their own in terms of that season. They are hard to refute as Brady did more than just throw 50 TDs.

[jvan1973]

We all have our opinions. I gave my reasons why which I believe stand on their own in terms of that season. They are hard to refute as Brady did more than just throw 50 TDs.

Not hard to refute at all. The patriots had as many rushing yards as the colts did in 04 and more than the dolphins in 84. Brady also threw the ball 80 more times than Manning did in 04.

[amfootball]

Not hard to refute at all. The patriots had as many rushing yards as the colts did in 04 and more than the dolphins in 84. Brady also threw the ball 80 more times than Manning did in 04.

It really does not refute anything. Brady had no James to set up play action. He introduced the league to a new offense which is one every team now copies. And like I said he went 16-0. He didn't blow a 24 point lead like Manning did to a decimated Pats team or get man-handled by an average Chargers team. He completed dominated and did not let up until 16-0 was secured. Most football analysts consider it to be the best season of all time even with the Super Bowl loss.

 

I would definitely put Marino's 1984 as second no question.

[jvan1973]

It really does not refute anything. Brady had no James to set up play action. He introduced the league to a new offense which is one every team now copies. And like I said he went 16-0. He didn't blow a 24 point lead like Manning did to a decimated Pats team or get man-handled by an average Chargers team. He completed dominated and did not let up until 16-0 was secured. Most football analysts consider it to be the best season of all time even with the Super Bowl loss.

I would definitely put Marino's 1984 as second no question.

pats had the better d, same or better rushing yards, brady had far more attemps and a hall of fame wr.

Bradys season is at three, soon to be four

[Dustin]

pats had the better d, same or better rushing yards, brady had far more attemps and a hall of fame wr.

Bradys season is at three, soon to be four

Id put it behind Aaron Rodgers 2011 as well.

[amfootball]

pats had the better d, same or better rushing yards, brady had far more attemps and a hall of fame wr.

Bradys season is at three, soon to be four

No doubt better D which is why that Pats team stands alone. He had more pass attempts because his run game was not dominate. Maroney was the featured back which is all you need to know. That team had a 315 point differential which is mind boggling. Brady led the charge to the most points scored and no losses and he had several fourth quarter comebacks to boot and a boat load of historical records.

 

My order would be:

2007 as 1

1984 as 2

2004 as 3

2013 as 4 - as great as Manning has been passing this year he has had some real head scratchers against the Pats, Colts and Chargers.

2011 - Rodgers

[Superman]

It really does not refute anything. Brady had no James to set up play action. He introduced the league to a new offense which is one every team now copies. And like I said he went 16-0. He didn't blow a 24 point lead like Manning did to a decimated Pats team or get man-handled by an average Chargers team. He completed dominated and did not let up until 16-0 was secured. Most football analysts consider it to be the best season of all time even with the Super Bowl loss.

 

I would definitely put Marino's 1984 as second no question.

 

I think you're putting extra on it at this point. I said earlier that Brady's 2007 was spectacular, but it wasn't ground breaking. The Patriots had been using that style of offense since 2005, as a matter of fact. They just dramatically upgraded their weapons in 2007, then went into "Screw the World" mode once the Spygate stuff happened. 

[jvan1973]

No doubt better D which is why that Pats team stands alone. He had more pass attempts because his run game was not dominate. Maroney was the featured back which is all you need to know. That team had a 315 point differential which is mind boggling. Brady led the charge to the most points scored and no losses and he had several fourth quarter comebacks to boot and a boat load of historical records.

My order would be:

2007 as 1

1984 as 2

2004 as 3

2013 as 4 - as great as Manning has been passing this year he has had some real head scratchers against the Pats, Colts and Chargers.

2011 - Rodgers

well, your order has your vote. And that's about it

[amfootball]

well, your order has your vote. And that's about it

Like I said everyone has an opinion. If you google the 2007 season you will see football expert after football expert call it the best season by a QB and team of all time. It was that season that was brought up when Rodgers was trying to go undefeated and break the 50 TDs in 2011. Not Marino and not Manning.

 

And of course Manning this year is being compared to that season as well.