Patriots Panthers Great Ending

[ruksak]

I have not seen that called PI very often - for the most part if something happens in front of the catch - ball is tipped / ball is intercepted - then contact behind that point is almost always ignored.   No way in the world was Gronk going to catch that ball.   If it had been a better throw it would have been PI - that one is all on Brady!

IMO Brady should've thrown high in the back line. Had he, if not caught, the PI would've been valid. 

[ruksak]

Correct me if im wrong, but that should have been a PI because Keuchly never looked back for the ball.

Had the ball been deemed catchable, there are a number of things that Luke did which go against the rule, including face-guarding. 

[King Colt]

Football officiating is flawed and there is no cure. The call last night was hideous in a league where you get your head chopped off for touching a QB with a feather. "Uncatchable" means the distance between the receiver and the ball was too great. In the case last night one could argue that "distance" was dictated by the Panthers bear hugging the receiver preventing him from moving toward the ball !! 

    I am aware Colts.com is jammed packed with Tom Brady fans but if that would have happened to the Colts I would still be screaming foul and so would 100% of everyone here. That one call could impact the playoff set up so while it is better them than us it is no guarantee we will not be next.

Stupid is as stupid does.

[seeblu]

We see more poor officiating in games this year than any time in my memory.  This one will gather a lot of attention because it was MNF, the only game in town.  I will shed no tears for the Pats.  They perfected pass interference and this was simply Karma.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I will shed no tears for the Pats.  They perfected pass interference and this was simply Karma.

 

 

[House]

There is absolutely NO WAY Gronk could've gotten back to the ball. The interference took place at a time when it was too late. Gronk's good, but not that good.

Didn't see it live before I heard all the hyperbole about the call.

No chance he could get to that. Brady threw a desperation pass, and was hoping to get bailed out.

Was there contact? Yeah, but he wasn't catching that anyways.

Funny that the Pats fans aren't crying about the flag that kept that drive alive, on the ball thrown out of bounds towards Dobson. That could have gone either way, just like the Gronk call.

[GoColts8818]

Didn't see it live before I heard all the hyperbole about the call.

No chance he could get to that. Brady threw a desperation pass, and was hoping to get bailed out.

Was there contact? Yeah, but he wasn't catching that anyways.

Funny that the Pats fans aren't crying about the flag that kept that drive alive, on the ball thrown out of bounds towards Dobson. That could have gone either way, just like the Gronk call.

pats fans will never cry about flags they have spent years saying the refs are part of the game and you just have to over come them! Of course it's easier to say that when it's their team that gets most of the calls. Time to see if they practice what they preach.

[House]

Where the heck is Bogie to tell the Pats fans that the only reason they think it was a bad call is because they hate the Panthers??

[BOTT]

It's clearly uncatchable because Gronkowski wasn't able to make an attempt on the ball.  If you can't make an attempt to catch the ball because of a defender's interference, its definitely a PI

It's uncatchable because it was under thrown was intercepted 5 yards in front of Gronk. The view from the endzone clearly shows Gronk had no chance to catch the ball even if Kuechly had not held him.

[TAPLOOK]

It was indisputably a bad call but as I said the last game they were screwed by the refs (Baltimore)"It's not the first time and won't be the last".

The was a good football game that I enjoyed thoroughly. It was a statement game for both teams and I think both teams succeeded in making that statement. Both are coming together at the right time and both are strong SB contenders.

[MIColtsFan]

I never want the Pats to win, even when it's good for Colts, but this was a clearly a PI! I would hate for my team to lose or win that way. I know a great many people who say "well don't rely on that one last play to win a game", but a lot of games come down to the last play and that is when it is the most fun and you're hanging on the edge waiting to see the play (or in my case jumping up and down) and then ppppfffffffffffffffftttt a bad call, a non call!!!!!!!!!! aaaarrrgghhh! pulls out hair!

[Moose Of Woe]

Funny that the Pats fans aren't crying about the flag that kept that drive alive, on the ball thrown out of bounds towards Dobson. That could have gone either way, just like the Gronk call.

 

 

Also no complaints that they didn't get a 15 yard penalty for a blatant leg whip earlier on. (Which was a TD drive) It nearly knocked out Carolina's best DE for the season. He missed most of the game after that, but came back just long enough to drill Brady on the last drive.

 

Other than one blatant leg whip and a debatable PI/holding not called, the game was called right down the middle and balanced out. No sense in blaming it one call when you throw a bad pass on the play, leave points on the board throughout the game, and got away with one earlier. Sometimes teams get screwed all game long in one sided double standard displays of officiating, and this wasn't even close to that.

[TAPLOOK]

Dobson's was the right call and the leg whip was missed. This is just a game like any other concerning the refs. Personally I'm the "it is what it is type" but you can't blame anyone for complaining and I liked seeing Brady get on the refs.

[Shane Bond]

As per the rule book, it was the right call.

 

If the rule itself is right or wrong, is something up for discussion. I am sure NFL end of the season will evaluate on these rules. Not hoping for a quick fix. Took them 10 years to eliminate the Tuck rule.

[BOTT]

Football officiating is flawed and there is no cure. The call last night was hideous in a league where you get your head chopped off for touching a QB with a feather. "Uncatchable" means the distance between the receiver and the ball was too great. In the case last night one could argue that "distance" was dictated by the Panthers bear hugging the receiver preventing him from moving toward the ball !! 

    I am aware Colts.com is jammed packed with Tom Brady fans but if that would have happened to the Colts I would still be screaming foul and so would 100% of everyone here. That one call could impact the playoff set up so while it is better them than us it is no guarantee we will not be next.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Gronkowski would have had to somehow teleport himself in front of the defender who intercepted the ball. If the defender had made I high fingertip interception then maybe Gronk has a shot, but with the under throw he had no shot.

[Shane Bond]

Thanks Panthers! Colts are a little closer to that #2 seed.

 

Colts will be No 2 after this weekend.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Colts will be No 2 after this weekend.

Technically we already are in the #2 spot.

[Shane Bond]

Technically we already are in the #2 spot.

 

Well that will stay then.

[-JJ-]

I do have to give Cam Newton credit. That kid has turned a corner, doesn't pout anymore on the bench, & can beat you with his arm & his legs. Darn! That was impressive...

 

Tom Brady took some serious hits in that 59 seconds...A tough son of gun who almost pulled off another miraculous win...Plus NE's running game was a 3 headed beast with Vereen, Blount, & Ridley. Jesus...

 

What was Talib's problem tonight? He let WR Steve Smith rattle him & get under his skin. He needs to just play & not cost his team vital field position. 

 

Carolina's LBs are a force to reckoned with too. Luke Kuechly has a tremendous motor as Jon Gruden kept raving about all night long too.

I haven't seen this kind of run game in a long time. I was shocked at the power running and Josh's call playing. I thought for sure he'd open it up with passing but he showed incredible patience. That 3 TE power run was amazing and makes me miss the old school. Some of the games these days are just too much arena football for me.

Smith and Talib- eh big pro ego's you'd expect.

The PI? eh I don't think about the refs..other than the yellow flags just ruin my entertainment in slowing the game down no matter who gets the short end.

Best intense game I've seen all year- win or lose.

[GoPats]

Funny that the Pats fans aren't crying about the flag that kept that drive alive, on the ball thrown out of bounds towards Dobson. That could have gone either way, just like the Gronk call.

 

Usually I find myself agreeing with you but the play you referenced was CLEARLY interference.

 

I make it a rule not to gripe about officiating in any sport. It is what it is. But last night, well... that really sucked. At the very least that is a holding call on Carolina. If you want to say no PI because Gronk had no play, that's fine, I can buy that. But the refs call defensive holding away from the ball ALL THE TIME. It happened earlier in the game on a 3rd down where Edelman got mugged on the opposite side of the field. 

 

So even if you want to say that wasn't PI, cool... it was as obvious a defensive holding call as it gets. Take your pick as to which penalty could have been called. At the very least Brady should have had one more shot at it from the 13. 

 

What really aggravated me though was that they picked up the flag... how do you do that in that situation??? And then the refs showed no cahones as they just ran off the field without an explanation, being chased by a fired up Brady the whole way. I love that ESPN cut away to their officiating expert and then Gruden immediately said something like, "That's not what I see... I see the linebacker with his arms around Gronkowski!" 

 

It's over and done with, nothing can change it now. But I had to at least vent a little. That's two games this season where the Patriots have lost on either weird (Jets game) or terrible calls. There's no guarantee they would have punched it in if they had one more play, but they at least should have gotten that opportunity.

 

Take-aways from the game... Carolina is legit, and I actually feel pretty good about the Patriots this morning despite the loss. It was a road game that felt like a playoff game, and they were right there until the end. That's the league's top defense and the Pats moved the ball very well against it. Just wish that NE still had Wilfork, Mayo, Kelly, and other key members of that defense back. It's going to be tough without them.

 

Oh well... on to Denver. They're going to get a good effort from the Patriots, especially after such a bitter loss.

[GoPats]

Gronkowski would have had to somehow teleport himself in front of the defender who intercepted the ball. If the defender had made I high fingertip interception then maybe Gronk has a shot, but with the under throw he had no shot.

 

Fine, then call it defensive holding instead of PI. 

 

How many times have you see refs make a holding call on a play where the ball is on the opposite side of the field and the call has nothing to actually do with the play? Like I said, it happened on a play with Edelman earlier in the game. Pats had a drive extended when he got mugged and Brady never even looked his way. 

[Yehoodi]

Tough loss for the pats last night, but glad is was a non conference loss . . . Carolina played a tough game and if they continue with this type of play, they will be a handful come playoff time . . .

 

As for the call  . . . it is what it is . . . and I guess it depends on how you look at it and feel about PIs call in general . . . just as a disclaimer I am not a fan of the widespread usage of the PI calls by the refs in the NFL and feel there should be fewer . . . one of the particular ones that I do not like are ones in which the ball is poorly underthrown and the ball hits the DB in the back, and as such, there is no way the WR is going to catch the ball lest he puts his hands through the chest of the DB . . . but we have seen 10 out of 10 times that if the DB makes contact, even though he is maintaining his position on the field, its PI even though there is no way the WR can get to the ball, that is the ball is uncatchable . .. (which is different if the DB pushes the WR out of the way) . . .

 

with that said, I will ad my two cents on the Gronk call . . . I am not as upset as some fans down here in NE . . . the ball was partially underthrown as there was a lineman coming down on Brady . . . and it would of been tough for Gronk to grab the ball over the DB . . . but there was just as much a chance/"no chance" for Gronk to get to the ball as the scenario above . . . so for me I am not too bother by the non call . .. but as the PIs are called in the NFL I can see very well how some might be upset . .. also, as the Gruden and the guys said after the game the contact started at the point where the ball landed and the LB was not looking back at the ball . . . so there is a case for PI to be made based on how it is called in the NFL . . .

 

for what it is worth there was a drive extending call on McCourty in which the TE grabbed his arm keeping his body to the TE's body and we got a PI against us . . . so if the call was made in the end zone in our favor, it would not have bothered me . . .

[Yehoodi]

Also no complaints that they didn't get a 15 yard penalty for a blatant leg whip earlier on. (Which was a TD drive) It nearly knocked out Carolina's best DE for the season. He missed most of the game after that, but came back just long enough to drill Brady on the last drive.

 

Other than one blatant leg whip and a debatable PI/holding not called, the game was called right down the middle and balanced out. No sense in blaming it one call when you throw a bad pass on the play, leave points on the board throughout the game, and got away with one earlier. Sometimes teams get screwed all game long in one sided double standard displays of officiating, and this wasn't even close to that.

 

yes the leg whip could of been called, but I think the PI on McCourty was a rough call for us . . .

[Yehoodi]

Fine, then call it defensive holding instead of PI. 

 

How many times have you see refs make a holding call on a play where the ball is on the opposite side of the field and the call has nothing to actually do with the play? Like I said, it happened on a play with Edelman earlier in the game. Pats had a drive extended when he got mugged and Brady never even looked his way. 

 

I hear ya GoPats, but they can not call it hold as the contact started after the ball was in the air . . . contact before the ball is in the air can be illegal contact or holding, after the ball is in the air the contact is PI . . .

[GoPats]

Just to add, from a Pats fan's perspective...

I was disgusted with Marcus Cannon's leg whip last night. This is probably a little like how you guys must have felt after the head-butt incident on Walker last week. It's embarrassing to have one of your players pull that kind of garbage and it makes it hard to root for Cannon individually. He's a good story too, coming back from having lymphoma to resume his NFL career... you'd think he'd have some perspective with what he's been through and wouldn't do something stupid to risk someone else's livelihood. 

 

He'll be fined this week for sure, but I can never and will never condone that kind of thing. I'm sure he didn't mean to injure the guy but still, dumb play. 

[Yehoodi]

and another thing my man Walt Coleman would not have allowed this to happen to the pats, just saying . . . :cool:

[GoPats]

I hear ya GoPats, but they can not call it hold as the contact started after the ball was in the air . . . contact before the ball is in the air can be illegal contact or holding, after the ball is in the air the contact is PI . . .

 

Illegal contact then? It was SOMEthing, lol...

[Yehoodi]

As inexcusable as the call was, so is Tom Brady's "leadership" when he whines like a petulant child. He's done it periodically in the past with coaches/refs, but this season it's becoming a near weekly basis between coaches refs and now teammates.

 

When Brady doesn't get the time he's used to throw or he/his teammates mess up he blows his lid. It's like watching a time bomb any time he plays a team that can beat his O-line or slip ups mount.

 

We didn't see much of it in the past because few teams could beat his line.  It's still good at both pass and run blocking, but the pass blocking isn't a fortress anymore. It's still better than most and he should be counting his blessings he doesn't have one like Rodgers.

 

looks like someone missed the Denver-SD game in which Manning was yelling at the refs about TOs after he got hit low . . .

 

Moose, sorry to burst your bubble, but ALL players great or otherwise give the refs earfuls from time to time, especially when they do not even give an explanation as to why they made a decision, in this case why they picked up the flag . . .

[smittywerb]

Nope, wrong, not catchable, no interference, that's the rule:

“(a) Incidental contact by a defender’s hands, arms, or body when both players are competing for the ball, or neither player is looking for the ball. If there is any question whether contact is incidental, the ruling shall be no interference.

(b) Inadvertent tangling of feet when both players are playing the ball or neither player is playing the ball.

© Contact that would normally be considered pass interference, but the pass is clearly uncatchable by the involved players.

(d) Laying a hand on a receiver that does not restrict the receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball.

(e) Contact by a defender who has gained position on a receiver in an attempt to catch the ball.

That pass was clearly uncatchable from the get-go, Gronk was in the back of the end zone when he ran into Kuechly (and yes, he did make initial contact by bumping straight into Kuechly on that play, but that's a discussion for another day), the pass was thrown in the front of the end zone when it was intercepted, 5 feet away from where the 2 tangled up (severely underthrown, in other words) as you yourself attested to, it was the right call (or non-call, depending on how you wanna look at it).

This.

[ruksak]

The infamous 4th and 2 game is being replayed on NFLN right now.......for all my fellow Colts fans. 

[ruksak]

looks like someone missed the Denver-SD game in which Manning was yelling at the refs about TOs after he got hit low . . .

 

Moose, sorry to burst your bubble, but ALL players great or otherwise give the refs earfuls from time to time, especially when they do not even give an explanation as to why they made a decision, in this case why they picked up the flag . . .

Yep. Great players have fire. As the clear leader, Brady just did his duty.

[Yehoodi]

Illegal contact then? It was SOMEthing, lol...

 

it was something, but illegal contact and holding is for contact before the ball is thrown and it looked like the ball was in the air when Gronk was first touched leaving the refs with just the PI call . . . at that point the only decision they have to make is whether or not the ball was catchable . . . I am not bothered by the non call . . . but in fairness to ones that think it should have been, there are many PIs calls where the WR has not chance to get to the ball, like I mentioned in my posts, the they still go with the PI, especially if the defender is not looking back at the ball and making some contact, much less than a bear hug . . .

[Yehoodi]

The infamous 4th and 2 game is being replayed on NFLN right now.......for all my fellow Colts fans. 

 

not that game again. . . .

[Moose Of Woe]

Took them 10 years to eliminate the Tuck rule.

 

9. Apparently it didn't apply to Manning in the playoffs the year before it was "officially" abolished.

 

Complaining about one call....try half a dozen game changers in the playoffs.

[Moose Of Woe]

looks like someone missed the Denver-SD game in which Manning was yelling at the refs about TOs after he got hit low . . .

 

I never said Peyton was immune to it. I said every player does once in a while. (Not in that post) Regardless, there's a difference between guys like Peyton who do it on occasion and Brady's near weekly tantrums.

 

If you want to dissect Manning's recent incident, he wasn't even complaining about (yet another) late cheap shot on his ankles. He was * over the timeout. Brady would be jumping in the air pointing at the ground looking for a flag like a ballerina.

 

If you want to compare the two, Google Manning outburst/angry/*/etc and then do the same with Brady.You'll probably find one for Manning with the O-line from, what, six seasons ago and a laundry list of results for Brady. Manning's timeout incident might not have had enough time to gel on the net, but it might find its way to immortality.

 

Any way you slice it, Peyton's faults don't omit Brady's.

[amfootball]

Usually I find myself agreeing with you but the play you referenced was CLEARLY interference.

 

I make it a rule not to gripe about officiating in any sport. It is what it is. But last night, well... that really sucked. At the very least that is a holding call on Carolina. If you want to say no PI because Gronk had no play, that's fine, I can buy that. But the refs call defensive holding away from the ball ALL THE TIME. It happened earlier in the game on a 3rd down where Edelman got mugged on the opposite side of the field. 

 

So even if you want to say that wasn't PI, cool... it was as obvious a defensive holding call as it gets. Take your pick as to which penalty could have been called. At the very least Brady should have had one more shot at it from the 13. 

 

What really aggravated me though was that they picked up the flag... how do you do that in that situation??? And then the refs showed no cahones as they just ran off the field without an explanation, being chased by a fired up Brady the whole way. I love that ESPN cut away to their officiating expert and then Gruden immediately said something like, "That's not what I see... I see the linebacker with his arms around Gronkowski!" 

 

It's over and done with, nothing can change it now. But I had to at least vent a little. That's two games this season where the Patriots have lost on either weird (Jets game) or terrible calls. There's no guarantee they would have punched it in if they had one more play, but they at least should have gotten that opportunity.

 

Take-aways from the game... Carolina is legit, and I actually feel pretty good about the Patriots this morning despite the loss. It was a road game that felt like a playoff game, and they were right there until the end. That's the league's top defense and the Pats moved the ball very well against it. Just wish that NE still had Wilfork, Mayo, Kelly, and other key members of that defense back. It's going to be tough without them.

 

Oh well... on to Denver. They're going to get a good effort from the Patriots, especially after such a bitter loss.

I don't think Carolina is legit at all. Brady and the O moved the ball all night at will against them. I thought KC played a better game against the Broncos then the Panthers did againt the Pats. They had very little effect on our pass or run game.

 

I felt good too. I like the way the Pats played overall. Have to clean up the fumbles but otherwise solid effort.

 

On to Denver ...

[Fx Stryker]

Where the heck is Bogie to tell the Pats fans that the only reason they think it was a bad call is because they hate the Panthers??

No, no you got it wrong. They called no foul because everyone is out to get the Saints.

[amfootball]

I never said Peyton was immune to it. I said every player does once in a while. (Not in that post) Regardless, there's a difference between guys like Peyton who do it on occasion and Brady's near weekly tantrums.

 

If you want to dissect Manning's recent incident, he wasn't even complaining about (yet another) late cheap shot on his ankles. He was * over the timeout. Brady would be jumping in the air pointing at the ground looking for a flag like a ballerina.

 

If you want to compare the two, Google Manning outburst and Brady outburst. You'll probably find one for Manning with the O-line from, what, six seasons ago and a laundry list of results for Brady. Manning's timeout one might not have had enough time to gel on the net, but it might find its way there.

 

Any way you slice it, Peyton's faults don't omit Brady's.

Other than week 2, Brady has not had one outburst this season. I am not sure what you are talking about.

 

And running after a ref who refused to give him an explanation on the final call of the game is hardly any type of temper tantrum. He was owed an explanation just like everyone else on the field, in the stadium and viewing at home.

[ruksak]

not that game again. . . .

It lives on. 

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Where the heck is Bogie to tell the Pats fans that the only reason they think it was a bad call is because they hate the Panthers??

The real reason the refs picked up the flag?   Karma...for that dirty leg whip that hurt Charles Johnson...and hopefully gets Cannon fined or suspended.