Breaking news: Colts trade for Trent Richardson (((merge)))

[Flash7 1,142]

Were you watching the same game??? Luck was sacked 4 times and knocked around numerous times. That does not equal up to a good O line.

Did you even read my post? I specifically referred to "run blocking".

[Indy005 0]

I agree. I think Richardson is good and will be good but I Aldo think Martin is a great player who came out and proved something lastcyear. I watch the game of football alot with sundaycticket... production>"potential"/stats. I'd say lucky had a beyyer year production wise and stat wise than rg3 as he is a qb who's main job is to throw and win.

 

Going by your argument, RG III had the better production and stat wise since he protected the ball better, ran for lot of yards...which helped his running back. You think Morris gets anywhere close 1600 yds if he didnt have RG III back there?

 

You, and most of us Colts fan, agree Luck was better because of the eye ball test. He did more with less, he had a terrible o-line, rookie receivers besides Reggie. 

 

Sounds familiar, kind of like Trent?

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo 43]

Yeah man, we're all on the same team right? (Well most of us)...I wasn't taking anything away from the other RB's, they are great players, but there is a reason Richardson went 3rd overall.  Even if people think that was a reach at #3 (which he was) he was still a lock for the top 15 in a more reasonable draft.  And if this was 10-15 years ago Richardson would have gone 1st overall in any draft without Luck or Peyton in it.

Exactly. He was def deserved to go 1st rb in the draft. He proved him self in college. I just think Martin has shown me more in the NFL so far. But I believe Richardson is still special just like Martin. Colts fan 1st so I'm def hoping richarson is the next earl Campbell type power back.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Donnie avery looking like a stud tonight. 

Every time he ran that crossing route, I thought back to his catch in the Lions game to win it.  I know it was only for one year but Donnie will always have a special place in my football heart.  GO DONNIE!!!

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo 43]

Going by your argument, RG III had the better production and stat wise since he protected the ball better, ran for lot of yards...which helped his running back. You think Morris gets anywhere close 1600 yds if he didnt have RG III back there?

 

You, and most of us Colts fan, agree Luck was better because of the eye ball test. He did more with less, he had a terrible o-line, rookie receivers besides Reggie. 

 

Sounds familiar, kind of like Trent?

Again. I judge a qb by how many air yards he gets and how he wins both of which luck did better than rg3. I'd agree That's a good example if Trent outperformed Martin. As I mentioned above I tend to agree than Morris was a product of his system. I'm not going to fault Martin for performing good just because he was on a slightly beyyer team than richarson.

[Dustin 89]

Than acknowledge that last year 1 back got the job done and the other did not. Id honestly like to see some numerical values proving anything about a ceiling. 

 

I cant place a numerical value on acceleration or body control. Those are things you have to see from watching film.

 

As for strength and power, Trent was capped in the weight room at Alabama at 475lb press. With no cap he could probably easily hit 500+.

 

Elusiveness: At this point in the season Richardson has forced 14 missed tackles on 31 rush attempts. He has the highest MT/Rush out on any RB in the league not named Lesean McCoy.

 

He's forces a missed tackles once every 2.2 rushes. The league leader last year forced a missed tackles every 5.5 rushes.

 

 

especially when Trent is only 2lbs heavier than Martin and the same height.

 

Trent has like 10 lbs on Martin. Not sure where you got your measurements from. ESPN has Martin at 215 and Trent at 225. And TRich had a faster 40 time.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo 43]

Every time he ran that crossing route, I thought back to his catch in the Lions game to win it.  I know it was only for one year but Donnie will always have a special place in my football heart.  GO DONNIE!!!

I won't lie to you some games in Madden I'd throw to Avery over Wayne.

[Dustin 89]

No I respect him. He has a strong belief/gut feeling that he can't necessarily prove so he doesn't really argue about it. I'm the same way way about certain things like religion.

 

I'm talking about your little jab at the end. Seemed a little childish.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo 43]

I cant place a numerical value on acceleration or body control. Those are things you have to see from watching film.

 

As for strength and power, Trent was capped in the weight room at Alabama at 475lb press. With no cap he could probably easily hit 500+.

 

Elusiveness: At this point in the season Richardson has forced 14 missed tackles on 31 rush attempts. He has the highest MT/Rush out on any RB in the league not named Lesean McCoy.

 

He's forces a missed tackles once every 2.2 rushes. The league leader last year forced a missed tackles every 5.5 rushes.

Martin accelerate faster. Production>ceiling. All day everyday.

 

 

 

Trent has like 10 lbs on Martin. Not sure where you got your measurements from. ESPN has Martin at 215 and Trent at 225.

[Dustin 89]

 

 

Martin accelerate faster. Production>ceiling. All day everyday.

 

 

 

Asl for stats. I give you stats and you just ignore them and go back to the same thing you said before.

 

Yes production > potential. I know that.

 

Martin had a better season, I know that. But I, and most scouts and GMs agree that TRich has a higher ceiling. If you cant see that then I don't think this is worth continuing any further.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo 43]

I'm talking about your little jab at the end. Seemed a little childish.

I believe you should read your own responses to me if you want to see passive aggressiveness. That little jab at the end there applis to all of us at times.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Exactly. He was def deserved to go 1st rb in the draft. He proved him self in college. I just think Martin has shown me more in the NFL so far. But I believe Richardson is still special just like Martin. Colts fan 1st so I'm def hoping richarson is the next earl Campbell type power back.

Not to keep going on and on, but I'll give you one more thought. I remember when Richardson played backup to Ingram when they were both at Alabama.  Even though Ingram was the highly touted heisman candidate, everytime TRich took the field, I was like who is this guy?  He outplayed Ingram every time he came on the field.  I was actually proud of myself that I saw what the scouts saw when it was his show when Ingram left.  He ended up getting so much more praise then Ingram ever did, even though Ingram won the Heisman.  And now we got him.  Needless to say, I'm pretty happy about this trade.  Not just because I think it's a good football move for the Colts, but I've had my eye on Richardson since his 1st year in college.  Kind of like a proud dad in a weird way.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo 43]

 

Asl for stats. I give you stats and you just ignore them and go back to the same thing you said before.

 

Yes production > potential. I know that.

 

Martin had a better season, I know that. But I, and most scouts and GMs agree that TRich has a higher ceiling. If you cant see that then I don't think this is worth continuing any further.

No I'm giving you stats that you're ignoring. Why does a higher ceiling matter when one Is the better runningback at this point.

Those expeers probably said that during the last draft, most now share my view on Martin. If I could use emoticom's of my phone on this forum I'd give you a nice facepalm and head into brick wall icon myself.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo 43]

Not to keep going on and on, but I'll give you one more thought. I remember when Richardson played backup to Ingram when they were both at Alabama.  Even though Ingram was the highly touted heisman candidate, everytime TRich took the field, I was like who is this guy?  He outplayed Ingram every time he came on the field.  I was actually proud of myself that I saw what the scouts saw when it was his show when Ingram left.  He ended up getting so much more praise then Ingram ever did, even though Ingram won the Heisman.  And now we got him.  Needless to say, I'm pretty happy about this trade.  Not just because I think it's a good football move for the Colts, but I've had my eye on Richardson since his 1st year in college.  Kind of like a proud dad in a weird way.

I noticed this too of the little colleg ball I watched. Ingram is pretty badnlol, he was entirely a product of his line and scheme. I'm excited too.

[Dustin 89]

No I'm giving you stats that you're ignoring. Why does a higher ceiling matter when one Is the better runningback at this point.

 

It doesn't matter.

 

TRich may never reach his ceiling. Martin may turn out to be the best RB of all time.

 

Martin is better than TRich at this time. Just what I'm trying to say is that TRich could be better than him down the road do to all the things I've said. 

 

But at this point, Martin is clearly better.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

 

Asl for stats. I give you stats and you just ignore them and go back to the same thing you said before.

 

Yes production > potential. I know that.

 

Martin had a better season, I know that. But I, and most scouts and GMs agree that TRich has a higher ceiling. If you cant see that then I don't think this is worth continuing any further.

Not to add fuel to the fire, but I don't think anyone should ever read into rookie stats too much...There are so many variables that would prevent even the best rookies from putting up big numbers. Like the "rookie wall" or a RB being an ineffective pass protector, and thus keeping him off the field on 3rd downs.  Just a thought...

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo 43]

It doesn't matter.

 

TRich may never reach his ceiling. Martin may turn out to be the best RB of all time.

 

Martin is better than TRich at this time. Just what I'm trying to say is that TRich could be better than him down the road do to all the things I've said. 

 

But at this point, Martin is clearly better.

That's fine than, any player can be The best of all time at their position. I'm glad you can finally agree that Martin has performed better than Richardson at this point

[Dustin 89]

That's fine than, any player can be The best of all time at their position. I'm glad you can finally agree that Martin has performed better than Richardson at this point

 

Finally?

 

I literally said it 30 posts back.

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/20688-breaking-news-colts-trade-for-trent-richardson-merge/page-18#entry568479

[Andy 6]

That's fine than, any player can be The best of all time at their position. I'm glad you can finally agree that Martin has performed better than Richardson at this point

Maybe I shouldn't be intruding on your debate, but I'd like to add too that Martin:

 

- Had the better O-line, especially on the interior part of the O-line.

- Had a passing game with a deep vertical threat

- Was healthier over the season than T-Rich

- Didn't have guys stack the box against him.

 

Those are 4 pretty big advantages that T-Rich did not have last year. Just throwing that bone out there. The last thing i want to do is get into this argument.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo 43]

Finally?

 

I literally said it 30 posts back.

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/20688-breaking-news-colts-trade-for-trent-richardson-merge/page-18#entry568479

You started debating me after I told ssomeone that Martin is better than Richardson and he thought to the contrary. You didn't agree with me and started arguing. If you agreed with me than why say anything at all?

[Dustin 89]

You started debating me after I told ssomeone that Martin is better than Richardson and he thought to the contrary. You didn't agree with me and started arguing. If you agreed with me than why say anything at all?

 

I didn't disagree that Martin was better than TRich. I disagreed that Martin has the higher ceiling.

 

Regardless, I think this has been tired out already. Just agree to disagree. 

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Maybe I shouldn't be intruding on your debate, but I'd like to add too that Martin:

 

- Had the better O-line, especially on the interior part of the O-line.

- Had a passing game with a deep vertical threat

- Was healthier over the season than T-Rich

- Didn't have guys stack the box against him.

 

Those are 4 pretty big advantages that T-Rich did not have last year. Just throwing that bone out there. The last thing i want to do is get into this argument.

I'll add to the fact that TRich was the bell cow of the Browns...it was literally all on him.  Martin was a cog in the Bucs wheel so to speak, a big cog, but still.  Martin played Ray Rice's role for the Ravens...while TRich was doing his best Peterson impression 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo 43]

I'll add to the fact that TRich was the bell cow of the Browns...it was literally all on him.  Martin was a cog in the Bucs wheel so to speak, a big cog, but still.  Martin played Ray Rice's role for the Ravens...while TRich was doing his best Peterson impression

Similar to ap or mojo , thus Richardson should have outperformed martin by a decent margin.

[Indy005 0]

Maybe I shouldn't be intruding on your debate, but I'd like to add too that Martin:

 

- Had the better O-line, especially on the interior part of the O-line.

- Had a passing game with a deep vertical threat

- Was healthier over the season than T-Rich

- Didn't have guys stack the box against him.

 

Those are 4 pretty big advantages that T-Rich did not have last year. Just throwing that bone out there. The last thing i want to do is get into this argument.

 

 

Shh, Andy youre making too much sense.

 

I already mentioned all of those things to him, and he chooses to ignore them because the "stats" dont back up that claim.

[Andy 6]

Similar to ap or mojo , thus Richardson should have outperformed martin by a decent margin.

 

That couldn't be further from the truth, especially considering he's a rookie.

 

Dustin man, how did you take 4 pages of this?

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Similar to ap or mojo , thus Richardson should have outperformed martin by a decent margin.

I don't really understand this...

[Dustin 89]

 

Dustin man, how did you take 4 pages of this?

 

I have no idea. But if I can offer any advice: stop while you're ahead lol

[Hans Moleman 0]

I'll also throw this in: Frankly, I don't care if Martin's better than Richardson or not. It doesn't matter. Doug wasn't available, and we certainly weren't going to get him for only a first rounder if he was. I was hoping Martin fell to round two for us last year, but Tampa had other ideas. Props to them for it.

 

What I do care about is that, even with everything Richardson was up against last year, he produced a season better than any Colts RB has in the last 5 years.

 

I'm not exaggerating. The last time we had a back put up production like Richardson's rookie year, mediocre as it's being painted, it was Joseph Addai's 2007 campaign. Isn't about time we actually made a move to have a "plus" running game instead of settling for the goal of being just adequate? It's like people want it, but they don't want to spend the picks necessary to make it happen (and I'm not just talking about Trent- we had plenty of people mad about the Thornton and Holmes picks, too). Yeah, we had to ignore other areas to build this one. That's how the NFL works. There's more positions than picks, so you have to decide where to focus your investments. It's clear we want a power running game, and I'm glad we're building it with talent (that I still believe we're getting fair value on) as opposed to piecing together scraps and hoping for the best.

 

We weren't getting the caliber of RB Richardson is in the first round in 2014 because that back's not there even if we wanted him. We just drafted the best RB of the 2014 draft, but we get him now, and he'll only cost $8 mil over the next 3 seasons. 

[BlueShoe 846]

I doubt anyone reads this, because this thread is 1000 pages long, but just want to add this. 

 

For what it is worth:

 

Everyone I have talked to since the trade can't believe the Colts landed Richardson. You won't believe how many e-mails I read from people today, and people I have ran into that have brought it up to me. Everyone's assumption is that  IT just got real in Indy. And this is from fans of various teams. Even friends who are Dolphins fans said it is a good thing you got him after the game Sunday. 

 

This is what the common fan thinks of Richardson.

 

If fans of several different teams see it this way then how do you think the players view it?

[Superman 9,653]

Luck was sacked 4 times and knocked around like a punching bag.

 

What, exactly, does that have to do with the run blocking?

[SteelCityColt 4,494]

I have no idea. But if I can offer any advice: stop while you're ahead lol

 

Congratulations on your patience. Unfortunately an argument always seem to descend the lowest common denominator and your points might have been flying a little too high there.

 

If it helps any the spectators seem to have enjoyed it  

[SteelCityColt 4,494]

Maybe I shouldn't be intruding on your debate, but I'd like to add too that Martin:

 

- Had the better O-line, especially on the interior part of the O-line.

- Had a passing game with a deep vertical threat

- Was healthier over the season than T-Rich

- Didn't have guys stack the box against him.

 

Those are 4 pretty big advantages that T-Rich did not have last year. Just throwing that bone out there. The last thing i want to do is get into this argument.

 

Ahh Andy the voice of reason. All good valid points. I never thought though that people would ever think Indy was a good fit for a power back in a power running Offensive scheme. 

[BlueShoe 846]

Ahh Andy the voice of reason. All good valid points. I never thought though that people would ever think Indy was a good fit for a power back in a power running Offensive scheme. 

 

I am not sure why a power running team would want a power back either. We should have pulled a Taco and used next years first on a Punter just to tick Pat Mac off and get him to sign for less. 

[SteelCityColt 4,494]

I am not sure why a power running team would want a power back either. We should have pulled a Taco and used next years first on a Punter just to tick Pat Mac off and get him to sign for less. 

 

If the Browns pull a Jagsesque move and draft a punter with "our" pick I will most likely die laughing. 

[SteelCityColt 4,494]

What, exactly, does that have to do with the run blocking?

 

I suppose you could make the argument Luck might have been our best RB for a while  

[K-148 63]

With Richardson on the field, maybe it is time for a lead draw? Stretch the field with 3 WR (Wayne, Hilton, Fleener), force defense to play 2-high and then run on them with Richardson behind Havili? Use shovel pass to put the football in Richardson's hands?

 

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/70028/adrian-peterson-and-the-lead-draw-the-vikings-throwback-play-for-their-throwback-runner

[SteelCityColt 4,494]

With Richardson on the field, maybe it is time for a lead draw? Stretch the field with 3 WR (Wayne, Hilton, Fleener), force defense to play 2-high and then run on them with Richardson behind Havili? Use shovel pass to put the football in Richardson's hands?

 

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/70028/adrian-peterson-and-the-lead-draw-the-vikings-throwback-play-for-their-throwback-runner

 

I agree that the idea behind it is sound, people forget you can set up the run with the pass, it's not just setting up P/A by running on teams. 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo 43]

I don't really understand this...

If someone is your entire offense like ap, Maurice Jones drew,Calvin Johnson, Chris Johnson than naturally they will put up more numbers than someone who is a cog in an en offense.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo 43]

Shh, Andy youre making too much sense.

 

I already mentioned all of those things to him, and he chooses to ignore them because the "stats" dont back up that claim.

I'm not ignoring ,I just simply can't fault Martin for doing good. If they had similar yardage than obviously I'd give the edge to Richardson. But they do not so I can't just sit here and say he is better just because he is in a bad situation. I don't buy the whole stack 9 in the box anyways because that would mean you realistically only have 2 guys in coverage and any qb in this league would be able to take advantage of it.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo 43]

I agree that the idea behind it is sound, people forget you can set up the run with the pass, it's not just setting up P/A by running on teams.

I think at this point in the league It's pretty much set up the run with the pass. Unless you're Vikings or jags. In which case you run to set up the run .