Werner's role in the defense

[trueblueblood]

I've been thinking, instead of just using him as a situational pass rusher like most think (because we signed walden), do you guys think that he will start, and we use Mathis as a situational pass rusher instead? from what I've seen on tape, Werner has the athletic ability to drop into coverage and/or play the run very well. He shows a lot of patience. It makes sense to me, considering Mathis is getting a bit old, and his numbers could benefit from him getting less snaps and being more fresh. Dont get me wrong though, mathis is still a beast. So it would be walden and Werner on first and second downs, as well as 3rd and short situations, and Mathis and Werner in pass rush situations. What do you guys think?

[HtownColt]

Not a chance Mathis doesn't start. Teams throw on any down and distances these days, plus he is one of our leaders who hasn't shown any signs of slowing down yet just like Wayne

[trueblueblood]

I'm just trying to figure out what his role will be

[Gavin]

I think Werner and Mathis will both be starting  when it comes time to make that decision,  Werner is just simply the more talented between him and Walden plus Werner is good at setting the edge himself

[HtownColt]

I'm just trying to figure out what his role will be

The same as Jerry Hughes was this past year, first one off the bench to spell Mathis or Walden, if Werner isn't the starter. And play defensive end in our sub packages opposite Mathis.

[Insert Colts Pun Here]

I'm just trying to figure out what his role will be

I honestly don't think we'll really have "starters" and "second string" within our front seven. I think we'll have so many different looks and schemes that everyone will end up with near equal playing time.

I think there'll be instances where both Mathis and Werner are rushing the passer, where Mathis is rushing and Werner is setting the edge, where Werner is rushing and Walden is on the strong side. And so on and so forth.

I think Werner is the player that allows that to happen (mostly) and he'll be asked to do a lot of different things.

[Black-Vell]

Im under the impression Mathis will be used like T Suggs & B Werner will be used like P Kruger.

 

Im not looking at our team as starters and backups. I think part of the reason we dont chase big names is so everybody feels a part of everything. The game will dictate who's out there. Some teams have better OLs than others. We might have to go with 3 heavies to occupy blockers to keep our ILB clean - we got that. We could go up on the scoreboard forcing our opponent to pass more. So we  then keep a steady rotation of our front 7 so we can get after it all game. 

 

look at our front 7 - there is no one that you would worry about getting snaps. They could all play during the course of a game & help keep our DEF fresh for the 4th. Our objective is stop the run - I think they plan on using a very deep rotation to stay fresh enough to do that.

 

I do believe Mathis could be used as a pass rush specialist to keep him fresh & injury free for the playoffs. I believe this is where Walden comes in. Because if B Werner starts - he's the on the line ROLB, right. They could move B Werner to Mathis' side & Walden can play on line. I hope. Playoff injuries to D Freeney really really really got us a couple years.

[AntonMcG]

The term 'starter' can be misconceived. One player could start at a position, but another could play many more snaps. As others have stated, there will be a lot of rotation, the Ravens regularly used four OLB's throughout games and we will do the same.

 

As for where they play, again I think the versatile nature of the defense dictates that we could find any linbacker lined up at any side standing up or with hands in the dirt.

 

And of course performance dictate how many snaps each player will get as the season progresses. I have high hopes of Werner though, I think he will be a big contributor for us this year.

[OldSchoolColt]

TrueBlueBlood is right. Mathis is a pass specialist that will be in on passing downs, but can handle being run at to a degree. Walden will be in on running downs, aka stop the run, stop the run, ...., and will put pressure on the QB when needed. Sidney will probably also be in some of the passing downs for Werner, just not as often. Fortunately, they will create competition in camp that Chuck talks about so much making them all better at every aspect of the position. Keep em fresh and make use of their strengths.

[Tony Sullivan]

Need Mathis to keep offenses honest, if we sell out the run Os will just pass in running situations...

[lollygagger8]

Keep 'em Fresh!!

[coltsfanatic24]

Werner and Mathis will start but Walden will come in when Mathis is tired or hurt.

[BPM_Colt]

As far as "starters" I think Mathis and Walden start the game on the field.. This year we have added a lot of depth in the front-7 and I think we will see tons of different looks & combinations of players than we have ever seen in Indy before. You have to throw different looks at the offenses and we will do lots of it.

 

I am excited for it and can't wait to see our D at work

[oldunclemark]

I've been thinking, instead of just using him as a situational pass rusher like most think (because we signed walden), do you guys think that he will start, and we use Mathis as a situational pass rusher instead? from what I've seen on tape, Werner has the athletic ability to drop into coverage and/or play the run very well. He shows a lot of patience. It makes sense to me, considering Mathis is getting a bit old, and his numbers could benefit from him getting less snaps and being more fresh. Dont get me wrong though, mathis is still a beast. So it would be walden and Werner on first and second downs, as well as 3rd and short situations, and Mathis and Werner in pass rush situations. What do you guys think?

I think you may be largely correct..

 

...Situational pass rusher does not just mean 3rd down to me anymore...it could also mean second down against certain teams... 

 

It could mean all 3 downs at times against pass-happy teams like Denver....

 

 

I just dont know if Werner can do in the NFL what he did in college.   I have always been partial to speed-based players for Indy.

 

I'm just uneasy about college players changing position for the NFL..

[Mouthfire]

I'm predicting it will be Mathis/Walden at the beginning of the season, but Mathis/Werner by mid-season, if not sooner.

[USAFHoosier]

Gut feeling tells me Mathis and Walden will start with Werner coming in for both of them ultimately playing around the same amount of plays.

[JoKeR]

I'm just trying to figure out what his role will be

..by looking at Walden's pay? Understandable but I wouldn't consider it so much. If Mathis and Werner prove to be the best in TC and preseason, they will be our starters. Walden isn't going to make most of his money this year. If he doesn't win the job sometime this year, he will be cut or asked to take a pay cut.

[#12]

Whether he starts or not is no big deal, but I would expect a first rounder to start.  I wouldn't exactly characterize Walden as an established vet.  Plus, he's new to this team as well.  

[Superman]

Im under the impression Mathis will be used like T Suggs & B Werner will be used like P Kruger.

 

Pretty much. What I liked about the idea of adding Kruger is that he can play both the Sam and the Rush spots, and having him opposite Mathis would have given our defense a lot of flexibility on any down, in any situation. Mathis still would have been the Rush backer most of the time, but it would have opened up a lot of options.

 

Werner has been compared to Kruger, but better at setting the edge on run plays. He is a very good fit as the Sam backer. He and Walden can combine at that position, and it will be a very solid rotation.

[Black-Vell]

Need Mathis to keep offenses honest, if we sell out the run Os will just pass in running situations...

You sound like you are talking about Madden. Game plans are not made up on Sundays & we dont know how effective Mathis will be without Freeney.

 

NFL teams spend months designing how they plan to try & win games. Our defense doesnt predicate getting a high amount of sacks from a pass rushing duo anymore. We getting set to punch teams in the mouth all game if necessary.

 

BAL has never had a Freeney and/or Mathis. So we gonna be all right.  

[CR91]

ive suggested the same idea before. most people dont seem to like it.

[Tony Sullivan]

You sound like you are talking about Madden. Game plans are not made up on Sundays & we dont know how effective Mathis will be without Freeney.

 

NFL teams spend months designing how they plan to try & win games. Our defense doesnt predicate getting a high amount of sacks from a pass rushing duo anymore. We getting set to punch teams in the mouth all game if necessary.

 

BAL has never had a Freeney and/or Mathis. So we gonna be all right.  

 

Your right, usually when teams are going up against a defense with their 5X Pro Bowl pass rusher benched they aren't going to take advantage of it. 

 

You sound like youve never watched/played football. 

[HtownColt]

Can show me where Robert Mathis showed signs of slowing down, that would suggest this move to a situational pass rusher as this thread suggest?

[Black-Vell]

Your right, usually when teams are going up against a defense with their 5X Pro Bowl pass rusher benched they aren't going to take advantage of it. 

 

You sound like youve never watched/played football. 

I didnt understand what you were trying to say You started with "Im right" but ended with an insult. Im guessing sarcasm - but it didnt translate well so my response may be slightly off.

 

I apologize if I hurt your feelings by saying your statement reminded me of how I play Madden. I was simply saying Mathis does not need to get a bunch of sacks for our DEF to be dominant anymore. Yes - sacks are a plus - but we are setting up our DEF to be successful even with Mathis getting a breather - u know - staying fresh. He is our oldest LB.

 

Never did I say anything about him being benched or not playing. But as far as a team taking advantage of him not being on the field - i dont know what that means. Because it seems to me - teams have been taking advantage of him - on the field by running the ball down our throats the last 5-6 years plenty.

 

No - Im not the most knowledgable football fan - Im OK with that. I did play growing up & 1 year college - but Im not on here to measure pool sticks. Ill try to make my posts less threatening from now on. 

[Black-Vell]

Can show me where Robert Mathis showed signs of slowing down, that would suggest this move to a situational pass rusher as this thread suggest?

I cant say he will be some kind of 3rd down only player - but you gotta know this DEF isnt really for Mathis anymore. It isnt about him slowing down. Look back at our Run DEF under the old regime. Horrible. You could argue that all we had was pass rushers. Mathis isnt going to be a run stopper now. He will have a role to fit his skill set. Against many teams that will be cool. But some teams dont be shocked if you see Walden & Werner doing the heavy lifting. 

[John Dee]

Mathis was BORN to be a 34 OLB...  unfortunately he had to play DE in a 43 most of his career. .  And played at an ALL Pro level.

 

Robert IS the prototypical 34 OLB.    The same size range that Werner is.     

 

"Walden and Werner doing the heavy lifting?"       Really.?   That is comical.

 

Mathis and "someone" will be doing the "heavy lifting" .....    as is the case every year.

 

I suspect it to be "SHOOT THE GLASS" ...          Bjorn Werner....  He plays with discipline.    A term Freeney never knew.

 

 

I cant say he will be some kind of 3rd down only player - but you gotta know this DEF isnt really for Mathis anymore. It isnt about him slowing down. Look back at our Run DEF under the old regime. Horrible. You could argue that all we had was pass rushers. Mathis isnt going to be a run stopper now. He will have a role to fit his skill set. Against many teams that will be cool. But some teams dont be shocked if you see Walden & Werner doing the heavy lifting. 

[HtownColt]

This thread is basically saying that Walden should be playing more snaps than Mathis with walden and werner doing the heavy lifting and Mathis as a situational pass rusher. Just the thought of that makes me wanna puke. I'm glad Pagano and manusky run the defense and not whoever came up with this idea.

[trueblueblood]

Can show me where Robert Mathis showed signs of slowing down, that would suggest this move to a situational pass rusher as this thread suggest?

Can you show me where I said he was slowing down? I simply said he's getting older and him taking less snaps would keep him fresh, and in turn, improve his numbers.

[TKnight24]

For those of you who're saying Robert Mathis should be a situational pass rusher.......

Robert Mathis caught a pick last year

End of discussion

[HtownColt]

Can you show me where I said he was slowing down? I simply said he's getting older and him taking less snaps would keep him fresh, and in turn, improve his numbers.

If he isn't slowing down, then why would him being moved to situational pass rusher is even being brought up. Our best OLB(arguably our best defender) is getting moved to a situational pass rusher for nothing is what your saying then right? Him taking less snaps is doing our defense a disservice

[trueblueblood]

This thread is basically saying that Walden should be playing more snaps than Mathis with walden and werner doing the heavy lifting and Mathis as a situational pass rusher. Just the thought of that makes me wanna puke. I'm glad Pagano and manusky run the defense and not whoever came up with this idea.

How about you try to read more carefully? Mathis just isn't that good in run support. We brought in Erik walden because he IS good in run support and setting the edge, as is Werner. If putting our defense in the best position to play well wants to make you puke, you obviously have an extremely closed-minded point of view. Mathis is still our best player on defense, don't get me wrong, but he is a pure pass rusher and is not very good against the run, and that's just the facts.

[HtownColt]

How about you try to read more carefully? Mathis just isn't that good in run support. We brought in Erik walden because he IS good in run support and setting the edge, as is Werner. If putting our defense in the best position to play well wants to make you puke, you obviously have an extremely closed-minded point of view. Mathis is still our best player on defense, don't get me wrong, but he is a pure pass rusher and is not very good against the run, and that's just the facts.

Mathis is good against the run, I don't know where you get he isn't from, it was that guy opposite him that was terrible against the run.

And what you suggested isn't the best position for our defense to play well

[trueblueblood]

For those of you who're saying Robert Mathis should be a situational pass rusher.......

Robert Mathis caught a pick last year

End of discussion

You're right, that's another one of his strengths, he has the speed to drop into coverage and he does it well. But he just isn't as good of a run stopper as walden. Chuck has preached over and over to stop the run, and walden can do it better than Mathis, that's all I'm trying to say. So with that in mind, I don't see how it is so far fetched...

[trueblueblood]

Mathis is good against the run, I don't know where you get he isn't from, it was that guy opposite him that was terrible against the run.

And what you suggested isn't the best position for our defense to play well

But walden is better at setting the edge. Period.

[Dustin]

But walden is better at setting the edge. Period.

Based on what?

[HtownColt]

But walden is better at setting the edge. Period.

Better than Freeney yes better than Mathis I doubt it.

[trueblueblood]

If he isn't slowing down, then why would him being moved to situational pass rusher is even being brought up. Our best OLB(arguably our best defender) is getting moved to a situational pass rusher for nothing is what your saying then right? Him taking less snaps is doing our defense a disservice

Yeah, make him take less snaps for no reason. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Smh.

[HtownColt]

Yeah, make him take less snaps for no reason. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Smh.

Yep great strategy you have there smh

[trueblueblood]

Based on what?

Based on the numbers, friend. Mathis had 33 tackles last season, walden had 46 and he wasn't even the starter

[trueblueblood]

Yep great strategy you have there smh

Ok so not only do you not understand what I'm trying to say, you also don't understand sarcasm...